191 replies to this topic

[Jakob Knight]

Geek Verve, on 05 November 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

And yet you, me and practically everyone reading this are still here playing. Seriously, in this light those strong statements come off as little more than rhetoric.

Of course I am going to still be playing. The difference is that I no longer see this as a game where feedback or personal investment has any place anymore. There was a time when I put serious time and money into this game (as evidenced by my tags), and felt it would be everything I was looking for in a Mechwarrior title. The idea of using the Mechwarrior interface to finally make a game that faithfully brought people into the Battletech universe and let them experience the 'reality' of piloting a battlemech in that world was something I was truly optimistic about at the start.

However, now I have come to realize this will never be. The devs have made it clear they consider MWO nothing more than a console game, and have no desire to make it other than a quick shooter sim (aka. Counterstrike, Doom, ect.). I no longer see the point in caring how this game goes, nor putting any further money into it as it simply isn't going to be worth it. People claim CW is coming, but it's been coming since the start of Beta over 2 years ago, and it isn't even close to being in prototype. As for what PGI claims, well, we all know it has the same weight as "No one will ever be forced to use 3PV", "There will be seperate queues for 1PV and 3PV", "We are against coolant pods", and other such iron statements. It just isn't worth caring about anymore. The devs have had their chance, and thrown it away along with their credibility.

This latest patch? They nerfed Seismic and made the 6 Mil pricetag people have paid for it a joke. I shrug and go back to playing when I feel the desire to blow something up. It doesn't matter anymore. It certainly isn't worth investing in.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 05 November 2013 - 02:41 PM.

[Thipequz]

I may be wrong, but the original module was 15,000 GXP, plus the 10,000 to make it advanced, totalling 25,000 GXP. If I averaged 1000xp per game, that's 50 GXP per game. That means just for the GXP to purchase a (now) substandard module, I had to play about 500 games. Not only that, but I own 8 of these modules, that 48,000,000 c-bills. I average about 150,000 c-bills again, that means that I also had to play roughly 350-400 games to purchase those modules after I had unlocked them. A total of 850 games to earn nothing, which is lets say 10 minutes a game, so 8500minutes of gaming, 141.6 hours, of gameplay. Perhaps I should have spent my time playing something else

[Greyboots]

Geek Verve, on 05 November 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

You can't expect anything to be immune to tweaking (aka nerfing), just because people have sunk imaginary money into it (or real money for that matter).

True but...

Seismic Sensors were, hands down, the most functional and effective module available (that didn’t require purchase every fight) apart from advanced zoom for snipers. They were quite overpowered. I don’t like the change but I certainly see why it was needed. That being said the change shouldn’t have happened until hit issues have been resolved as it’s one of the things taking the edge off of light mechs and hit registration issues.

As someone has already mentioned, this change also effects some players in a financial way to a large degree yet nothing has been done to compensate these players. What harm would a full-price sellback program for a week have done? None. And it would have compensated these players. Job done.

Combined these, and other instances of like-minded changes, give me no real reason to place any faith in PGI to deal with anything as an interconnected web of cause and effect. I almost bought the phoenix pack (and the other pack associated with it but I forget that one’s name) until I sorted through patch notes and noticed PGI’s approach to “game improvements”. I’m also holding off on Hero mechs and other real-money services except premium time. Changes here and there without considering the interconnected web has drastically effected more than one of my mechs since I started about 2 months ago (of course some of that was Beta and I expected those changes). This necessitates a change in direction where some of my favourite mechs became unplayable (with regards to my playstyle, not overall), necessitating buying and training more mechs.

I certainly won’t be investing in the game in any meaningful way until PGI can prove that this “bit and piece” approach is coming to a close and they can forsee interconnected changes (as reliable developers do), adequately allow for domino effects in the game’s systems and compensate effected players.

Don’t get me wrong here. I play MWO and I pay for premium time. I do both happily. Overall it’s a fun game and I’m happy to stick with it for a while yet. These issues aren’t going to see me storming off in a huff and uninstalling the game, far from it, but they do keep me on the edge of the pool dipping my feet rather than jumping in.

So sure, nothing is immune from “tweaking” and nothing will protect you from that. That doesn’t mean I have to accept poor “tweaks” as “right” and my reaction to it being wrong is to with-hold larger payments rather than leave. I am 100% sure I’m not alone.

Geek Verve, on 05 November 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

And yet you, me and practically everyone reading this are still here playing. Seriously, in this light those strong statements come off as little more than rhetoric.

So yeah, people are still here reading but that doesn’t mean what they’re saying is meaningless rhetoric. The game is F2P and they can be here, read, comment and then simply not pay a red cent. IMO it’s a little short-sighted to not understand that because there’s a difference between having players and making money in F2P games.

If PGI wants more of my money in particular they have to do a better job. It’s that simple.I don’t mind the game changing, I can roll with the punches, but at the moment the game could go in any direction giving me no long-term reasons to invest any more than I currently do. Maybe that's rhetoric but it's the right kind of rhetoric; the one with dollar signs attached.

Edited by Greyboots, 05 November 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[Frogfire]

Thipequz, on 05 November 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I may be wrong, but the original module was 15,000 GXP, plus the 10,000 to make it advanced

The price was 7.500, plus another 10.000 for the advanced. But the principle still holds up.
I don't expect a refund, nor do I think it breaks the game. But rather than adding more elements, it removed one.

Give it activation and cooldown. Introduce counters. But having to stand still is like only being able to zoom while at full throttle.

Edited by Frogfire, 05 November 2013 - 03:04 PM.

[Thipequz]

Frogfire, on 05 November 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

The price was 7.500, plus another 10.000 for the advanced. But the principle still holds up.
I don't expect a refund, nor do I think it breaks the game. But rather than adding more elements, it removed one.

Thank you for the correction, none the less, that is still 350 games, making a total of 700 games to earn something I will probably only use in very rare cases.

[AztecD]

it was a good module, and now you will just die to ECM gangs once again, atleast with seismic you could see trouble arround the corner even if your radar was clean. When they reduced the range, well i could live with it, since it was just to have a better sense of precense, but now it just sucks.
The people who are claping this change are the same kind of people giving PGI an excuse to make this game into a console game. 24 mill down the drain + gxp + gold.
I wonder what else PGI can find to kick us in the ball sac

[Frogfire]

Thipequz, on 05 November 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Thank you for the correction, none the less, that is still 350 games, making a total of 700 games to earn something I will probably only use in very rare cases.

Yup. I completely agree it is a heavy investment of GXP - and it also took me a while to get mine. The reason I don't fret much about a refund is because that is what I expect from games. Rarely have I seen a nerf be compensated, except with more nerfs.

[TLBFestus]

Jakob Knight, on 05 November 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Where was the outcry? Pretty much where the 1PV and previous outcries went. People have just stopped caring about the game and trying to voice any feedback, because they know the Devs don't care, and it's a waste of time to even try for reasoned objection to anything done anymore. The acceptance that this is only a shallow video game, and will always be just a shallow video game to everyone who could make it something more (as opposed to what it was supposed to be at the outset) has set in, and there just isn't any point continuing to point out the obvious time and again.

Here, Here!!

[Arch Angel 09]

I see guys on here complaining as if they had lost money due to the change. c-bills are an in game currency and seismic is purchased via c-bills so even if the module no longer works the way you want it you are not at any loss. If you bought one for each of your mechs instead of swapping modules that's on you and no fault of PGI's and as it is for an made up currency you are not at a loss. If this truly bothers you that much it could be time to get a new hobby.

Edited by Arch Angel 09, 05 November 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[d34th4nd]

Arch Angel 09, on 05 November 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

I see guys on here complaining as if they had lost money due to the change. c-bills are an in game currency and seismic is purchased via c-bills so even if the module no longer works the way you want it you are not at any loss. If you bought one for each of your mechs instead of swapping modules that's on you and no fault of PGI's and as it is for an made up currency you are not at a loss. If this truly bothers you that much it could be time to get a new hobby.

What is premium time if not real money? OK a bit indirect but i have invested real money in a free to play game, yes the answer to that is "well that was your choice" but it us investors who are keeping the servers alive for the part timers

[Thipequz]

Arch Angel 09, on 05 November 2013 - 03:30 PM, said:

I see guys on here complaining as if they had lost money due to the change. c-bills are an in game currency and seismic is purchased via c-bills so even if the module no longer works the way you want it you are not at any loss. If you bought one for each of your mechs instead of swapping modules that's on you and no fault of PGI's and as it is for an made up currency you are not at a loss. If this truly bothers you that much it could be time to get a new hobby.

indirectly I did spend actual money purchasing them. Having paid real money for premium time so that I can earn c-bills and gxp faster, I technically did spend real money. Not only that, but having wasted hours of my time to achieve a the required gxp to purchase a module I no longer want to use is just as much of an issue. Had I known that the module would end up at this point, I would have invested my time, and real money elsewhere in this game.

[Asmosis]

NuclearPanda, on 05 November 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

This is definitely a welcome change and completely understandable as to why it was done. If a mech was equipped with Seismic, and walking at the same time, their whole sensor screen should be blowing up with detection every, step, they, took.

This is certainly more realistic.

I'd argue till im blue in the face that realism is no justification for anything in a game, but aside from that I like the changes and they make a lot of sense from a balance point of view.

I do think maybe they should reconsider the range of the sensor though.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

realism?
You do realize everything about this game is not real or real life right?
giant 2 legged robots
shooting lasers
running 140+kph..
jumping from solar system to solar system.....
BWAHAHAH!

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 05 November 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[Arch Angel 09]

well I guess by us investors you mean me as well as i am a founder and phoenix overlord purchaser and I see nothing wrong them tweaking modules. I am simply stating that they are purchasable by in game currency and premium time only helps you shave time off the amount of time it takes to earn the cbills to pay for it so as it can also be done for free you have not indirectly spent money on it in my opinion you spent money on the convenience of earning cbills faster and how you spend them is up to you. you can argue that time is money but then it is a video game so that argument is flawed. I am not saying I don't understand that some people are upset I am just sayin that for most of us this isn't our first rodeo in regards to the changes being made to a mechanic to balance the game so people should understand by now that nothing in the game is set in stone and will be balanced when necessary. Seismic has operated the same for some time now and I have used it to my advantage many a time however i understand the need to make it more realistic to balance it. give it time an you will adapt and over come

[Kataiser]

New Seismic is balanced. The old one was atrociously overpowered, and now it takes something representing thought to use. Hit X, scan minimap, walk on. If you play cautiously, you can still advance and get seismic data pretty effectively. Lights aren't hit as hard with the nerf for IDing enemies before engagement (due to faster accel/decel), but have it worse off for mid-fight location marking. Missile boats can still use it to effect as a warning for incoming enemies, and fast-moving Mediums that don't pilot recklessly can use it to fantastic effect.

Overall, I think that it needs a tiny buff in effectiveness as well as a minor price drop, but it isn't the end of the ******* world and it definitely isn't a terrible thing. This nerf was necessary and makes MWO a much better game.

[Thipequz]

Arch Angel 09, on 05 November 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

well I guess by us investors you mean me as well as i am a founder and phoenix overlord purchaser and I see nothing wrong them tweaking modules.

This current nerf is not "tweaking" as you say, it is out right altering the description of it. Tweaking would be altering the distance it works at, removing an entire feature of a module, is changing it into something completely different, it is now just a glorified microphone. If I want a module to hear where weapons are being fired from, or listen out for footsteps, its called the volume button on my tv remote

[d34th4nd]

Sorry if this becomes a flame war as i see all sides of this argument be it this for that and real money for in game currency yada yada, all i am saying is i primarily enjoy the lights, currently working on the locust, so if u no how weak that is you will understand. In a game earlier while being an evasive little scout for my team who would up till recently seen a little 250m foresight into enemy movements and there for would want to avoid a fire fire fight and relay back to my team, ran smack bang in to an atlas with an ac20 and you can guess what happens (for those of you who normally cheat and go to the back of the magazine for the answers he shot my leg off, 1 shot clean off) now as a not really a mech killer of any sort i feel it has penalised my ability as a team player and have now had to resort to putting on a capture accelerator and become that cap warrior we all hate.

[ShinVector]

NuclearPanda, on 05 November 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

Jakob, I would like to respectfully disagree with your statement that it is useless. I have stated a few times within this thread some situations where it would be plenty useful for teamwork (something this game occasionally sorely lacks).

Is it a nerf for super commandos who want to run around like MechaRambo? Absolutely. Does it still provide useful tactical information when used properly? Absolutely.

I would however be extremely open to the Devs again increasing the range of Seismic once again. To me this would be a completely fair compromise that I would support.

As for 1PV? That's a whole other bag of worms. That WAS handled poorly, and I agree no one wanted 3PV.

Panda is where you are SOOO wrong...
We should agree with these seismic crutch users that the module is indeed 'useless'.

Now we can ask PGI for the final nerf which is to REMOVE Seismic Module completely and refund everybody who bought it their CBs. This will make everyone happy and lights scouting have a purpose again.

Hopefully we can see sneaking around make a come back with the current nerf.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Mechs that have vibration sensors installed in their feet should not have the ability to track the fine vibrations created by other Mechs, because walking would saturate your sensors with every step and you need two feet on the ground to make stereoscopic measurements. Anyone who thought the seismic sensor module would remain exactly as it was when it was introduced was just trying as hard as possible to min/max their Mech along the Flavor of the Month format without consideration to game tuning passes.

One must mind the future.

[ShinVector]

d34th4nd, on 05 November 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

As primarily a light player the only thing this Nerf has done is give me a "your being shot by the enemy/there's an enemy shooting near you" sensor which i am fully aware off as i am capable of seeing that there is weapons fire. the pre Nerf module allowed my locust, Jenner, raven have sitautonal awareness that now if i run straight into an atlas its a sure thing i am dead as opposed to my previous mentality of "well that's to hot for this little thing move on" i think that is what thipequz and jacob knight are getting at

Uhhhh... No... This is why my Jenner K is fully kitted out for Scouting.. BAP + Seismic + Advance Sensor + Target Info + 4th Module is what ever you want.

Seismic turned into a crutch including myself as, it was TOO good. It is time for people to start using line of sight.
ECM will be a problem but if is just 1 ECM mech.. BAP will cancel it out and allies will know i am in trouble.