191 replies to this topic

[NuclearPanda]

Thipequz, on 05 November 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I may be wrong, but the original module was 15,000 GXP, plus the 10,000 to make it advanced, totalling 25,000 GXP. If I averaged 1000xp per game, that's 50 GXP per game. That means just for the GXP to purchase a (now) substandard module, I had to play about 500 games. Not only that, but I own 8 of these modules, that 48,000,000 c-bills. I average about 150,000 c-bills again, that means that I also had to play roughly 350-400 games to purchase those modules after I had unlocked them. A total of 850 games to earn nothing, which is lets say 10 minutes a game, so 8500minutes of gaming, 141.6 hours, of gameplay. Perhaps I should have spent my time playing something else

I'm sorry, but I still can't help but chuckle that you spent THAT MUCH TIME on modules just because you couldn't be bothered to switch a few around in mechlab. Buying 2 or 3 of them? Sure, because maybe you died and want to roll in another mech while the one with seismic is still in match.

Buying SIX of them??? LOL!!!

[NuclearPanda]

AztecD, on 05 November 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

it was a good module, and now you will just die to ECM gangs once again, atleast with seismic you could see trouble arround the corner even if your radar was clean. When they reduced the range, well i could live with it, since it was just to have a better sense of precense, but now it just sucks.
The people who are claping this change are the same kind of people giving PGI an excuse to make this game into a console game. 24 mill down the drain + gxp + gold.
I wonder what else PGI can find to kick us in the ball sac

Why are you running out, ALONE, and dying to an "ECM gang"??

Stick with your lances. This is a team gang.

[NuclearPanda]

LastPaladin, on 05 November 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

#1 - We're not in beta anymore. If you make a deal to deliver an item, then change that item after payment is received, it's fraud.
#2 - I, and plenty of others, did voice our concerns with this nerf when it was proposed. Don't blame us if those comments were lost in the chorus of "Yay nerf the wallhack!" comments.



Meh. Expecting reimbursement when they pull a bait and switch like this is not QQing, it's a pretty reasonable demand.

Just curious, how many other MMOs or anything have you played? It's rebalancing. It happens all the time. Hell, I remember my Bounty Hunter in SW:TOR getting a ridiculous nerf to one of it's absolute main skills because it was considered "too powerful" (Tracer Missle if I recall correctly). I had no other Alts, only my leveled bounty hunter, and had to learn to deal with the changes.

I didn't ask Bioware for a refund because they changed my class. It's not a bait and switch. Games evolve. There will be new additions to this game, new items, new mechs, new weapons. And you know what? Those will probably be tweaked too.

Lindonius, on 05 November 2013 - 10:09 PM, said:

Bwahahahah, I love this!

[NuclearPanda]

Ensaine, on 06 November 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

^This.... all of it.

My main reason for toting Seismic was to defeat the WAY overpowered ECM. How ECM can still cloak an entire team is beyond me, yet they hack this module down.

As I also play War Thunder, they recently had some DOS attacks on their network, affecting the game servers/login servers. What did Gaijin do?
Extended all activated premium time by 12 hours, and extended an event, and are going to repeat the event next weekend, where the event pays out PREMIUM game currency, and extended all sales.

^ THAT is caring about your customers. I ponied up for the $80 package, which was on sale for $60.

I don't see anyone in this thread crying about the loss of a useful item, which it was, IMO, the only real counter to ECM.

It's the outright disregard for their customers. What NoiseCrime suggests is really the only right thing to do, wipe and refund, let 'em buy it again if they want it, at a reduced cost to reflect it's drop in function.

These guys have absolutely NO common sense at all.

I agree with you Ensaine on this regard. Refunds should absolutely be given, to some extent.

PGI hasn't always had the best customer service in my opinion, and has handled some fiascos ATROCIOUSLY (3PV is a great example).

That being said, I'm not encouraging anyone to outright leave the game. What I am doing though is laughing at some people's extreme outrage/over-reacting/hilarious behavior. If they leave, they leave, and that is their choice. I'm not telling them to **** though.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

NoiseCrime, on 06 November 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

I disagree, the problem wasn't that it was overpowered so everyone had it, the problem is for most mech builds it was the only useful module. Other modules are nice (extra sensor range, faster detection), but none offered a real benefit like Seismic did and you'd only choose some of the other modules if your build needed it (adv vision for snipers, longer tracking for LRM).

So its not that seismic was some super power, just everything else is so completely lacklustre, that honestly if I did get a GXP refund I wouldn't know what to spend it on. Personally I see this as yet another problem with the game, leveling up and playing gives you no meaningful rewards, other than Basic and a couple of Elite trees, which don't take that long to achieve. You can max out both trees in what 30-40 games at most, then your done, so what do you get when you start hitting hundreds of games played with a mech?

In general, I agree that right now, there is no meaningful "end game" content. Between that and lack of community warfare, there's no incentive to keep playing the game once you have all the 'mechs you want mastered (aside from fun, challenge, camaraderie with your unit, trying out new things, and personal improvement).

However, when it comes to comparing seismic sensor (as it was) to any other module, either seismic was way OP, or all other modules are worthless. Before, seismic was useful in every 'mech in many situations. Now it's only useful in some situations, and you have choices.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 06 November 2013 - 06:34 AM.

[ShadowSpirit]

Could have saved yourself and everyone else the trouble and just not implemented the silly thing to begin with.

ECM Nerf - Check
Seismic Nerf - Check

... do us all a favor and just remove those modules.

[Thipequz]

NoiseCrime, on 06 November 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

As for others claiming you didn't lose real money, that is completely irrelevant, time is money, investment is time, time that could easily have been invested in another game that doesn't constantly screw you over.

Its one thing to completely change how something works in the game, its something else to not realise how much it will annoy your player base, but make no effort to compensate them, such as the monumentally simple task of removing seismic modules from players inventories and refunding both the GXP and CB's, allowing them to choose whether or not they want to re-purchase it.

Absolutely right, I believe changing something so far from its original state is unbelievable, not only are you nerfing something that I find useful for many reasons, but your also buffing everyone else who spent their gxp and c-bills on other modules that have not changed.

As an example of the correct way to do things, look at ECM. When it first arrive people **** bricks over how powerful it was, if you didnt have ecm capable mechs on your team, you lost 90% of the time. Seismic is nowhere near that powerful, or ever could be.However, when ECM was tweaked it was not the ECM that was altered, it was the method that other players can use to counter it, visa vi Tag, Narc, BAP, hitting with PPC's, and although I had already spent a big chunk of c-bills on an ECM capable mech, it didn't bother me, I welcomed it, as I felt that it was the right thing to do and the correct way to do it. Bring in counters to certain overpowered in game items, perhaps reduce the effectiveness (400m-250m) which was the right thing too, but dont change how the fundamentals of the module actually work, that is unreasonable. All we ask is for our c-bills and gxp to be returned, leave it up to us if we want to repurchase it under its new guise.

[Thipequz]

NuclearPanda, on 06 November 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

I'm sorry, but I still can't help but chuckle that you spent THAT MUCH TIME on modules just because you couldn't be bothered to switch a few around in mechlab. Buying 2 or 3 of them? Sure, because maybe you died and want to roll in another mech while the one with seismic is still in match.

Buying SIX of them??? LOL!!!

Actually its 8 modules, but hey ho, and I have roughly 30 mechs, ive played basically every chassis, and was running out of things to spend my c-bills on.

Any idea how annoying it is constantly searching between each chassis to actually find where you left a module, when you have 30+ mechs? IF the UI was less ***** than the current one, then perhaps swapping and changing modules would have become more viable, it wasn't laziness, it was practically a necessity. I dont always use seismic on every mech, but I can guarantee I never have a spare one, as I normally jump around an awful lot, and thus loose track of where each module is.

So in my opinion, it isn't particularly funny!

[ShinVector]

Thipequz, on 06 November 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Actually its 8 modules, but hey ho, and I have roughly 30 mechs, ive played basically every chassis, and was running out of things to spend my c-bills on.

Any idea how annoying it is constantly searching between each chassis to actually find where you left a module, when you have 30+ mechs? IF the UI was less ***** than the current one, then perhaps swapping and changing modules would have become more viable, it wasn't laziness, it was practically a necessity. I dont always use seismic on every mech, but I can guarantee I never have a spare one, as I normally jump around an awful lot, and thus loose track of where each module is.

So in my opinion, it isn't particularly funny!

Lol... I have got 29 mechs and I only have one Seismic Module. Always knew it was going to get nerfed one day and didn't want to rely on it that much.

All HAIL THE DEATH OF THE SEISMIC MODULE !!

The Jenner has come to rise AGAIN !!
I can now assassinate heavier mechs again with ninja attacks ! WOOT !!

[Thipequz]

ShinVector, on 06 November 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Lol... I have got 29 mechs and I only have one Seismic Module. Always knew it was going to get nerfed one day and didn't want to rely on it that much.

All HAIL THE DEATH OF THE SEISMIC MODULE !!

The Jenner has come to rise AGAIN !!
I can now assassinate heavier mechs again with ninja attacks ! WOOT !!

It is your choice to only have 1 module, just as it was mine to purchase 8 siesmic sensors (that worked). As mentioned earlier in the thread, there is no "end Game" content, so we spend our C-bills on what makes our lives in the game more convenient, and to me, if that means I ultimately end up with 30 mechs ready and waiting to play, without having swap out engines, modules, ammo, weapons etc then that means a lot to me. It wasn't as much laziness as it was just my "end game" content to have every mech I own, ready to rock at a press of a button. Pasting in two mediocre games in your jenner goes no distance to prove your point, any more than it does disprove mine.

Edited by Thipequz, 06 November 2013 - 07:20 AM.

[NuclearPanda]

Thipequz, on 06 November 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Actually its 8 modules, but hey ho, and I have roughly 30 mechs, ive played basically every chassis, and was running out of things to spend my c-bills on.

Any idea how annoying it is constantly searching between each chassis to actually find where you left a module, when you have 30+ mechs? IF the UI was less ***** than the current one, then perhaps swapping and changing modules would have become more viable, it wasn't laziness, it was practically a necessity. I dont always use seismic on every mech, but I can guarantee I never have a spare one, as I normally jump around an awful lot, and thus loose track of where each module is.

So in my opinion, it isn't particularly funny!

I am aware, I have 31 myself I believe. I actually switch out XL engines all the time between mechs I'm leveling and some weapons and whatnot because I don't feel like spending CBills. I want to save them for CW if and when it ever releases.

Also I have to frequently go back into Modules at the end of matches to keep re-equipping Artillery (hopefully rectified in UI 2.0 if and when it releases also). So the point is kind of moot I suppose. To each their own, I'm just appalled you spent that much on Modules because you didn't feel like spending 60 seconds. *shrugs*

[Thipequz]

As I said later in thread, its not the 60 seconds that I was bothered with, its that ultimately I want every mech in my mechbay ready to use, that is my end game content. CW will come (in 12months or so) so saving c-bills for that is not a problem, for now, I want to finish mastering the mechs I have, find load outs I like, and then be able to go back to that mech anytime I want and just jump in and enjoy the game. That is/was important to me, I liked to think that once mastered I could just jump back in it without having to worry about hunting down an engine from here, a couple of srm6's from there, and the modules from there and there. I believe 60 seconds x the 4,000 games I have played adds up to quite a lot of 60 seconds!!! To be able to play the game for that period instead of faffing around, means more to me than the c-bills I have in my virtual bank account

[NuclearPanda]

ShinVector, on 06 November 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Lol... I have got 29 mechs and I only have one Seismic Module. Always knew it was going to get nerfed one day and didn't want to rely on it that much.

All HAIL THE DEATH OF THE SEISMIC MODULE !!

The Jenner has come to rise AGAIN !!
I can now assassinate heavier mechs again with ninja attacks ! WOOT !!

ALL HAIL THE CAPPELLANS! *high fives you*

[ShinVector]

NuclearPanda, on 06 November 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

ALL HAIL THE CAPPELLANS! *high fives you*

For the Glory of House Liao !!

[Thipequz]

ShinVector, on 06 November 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

The Jenner has come to rise AGAIN !!
I can now assassinate heavier mechs again with ninja attacks ! WOOT !!

Unfortunately that isn't the case. What they have just done is remove a tool that light vunerable mechs (ravens, locusts, spiders and your jenner) could utilise, and hand it solely to those mechs that you want to walk up behind, whilst I presume they are standing still, and shoot in the back. Basically the light mechs which are vunerable to damage, and will be shot dead if they are unfortunate enough to stop to check there seismic sensor, have had this module taken from them, and planted straight in the hands of those mechs which can afford to stop for a couple of seconds, namely, those mechs you so wish to shoot in the back. Unfortunately, as it is still a viable option to use this on some of the heavies and assualts, your jenner is unlikely to see any benifit to this nerf, infact, you may now be questioning, do they have a seismic or not, and when your 200 meters out, they will turn on you. At least before, you knew with practical certainty that you couldnt cross that 250m line without being spotted, better the devil you know

[Vorloni]

NuclearPanda, on 06 November 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

Why are you running out, ALONE, and dying to an "ECM gang"??

Stick with your lances. This is a team gang.

Reading all this about seismic and I just can't stop thinking about this. If I'm piloting my Locust I won't just run straight ahead around corners to face of firing squads. I study surroundings and know when to stop to look around and not being shot. If I'm getting shot it means to me that my tactical awareness wasn't good enough. OR I was bold enough to go alone into hot zones that no one in my team can't cover or know about.

For me it just comes to team play and situational awareness. SS can help in this still, like many have tried to say.

[ShinVector]

Thipequz, on 06 November 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

Unfortunately that isn't the case. What they have just done is remove a tool that light vunerable mechs (ravens, locusts, spiders and your jenner) could utilise, and hand it solely to those mechs that you want to walk up behind, whilst I presume they are standing still, and shoot in the back. Basically the light mechs which are vunerable to damage, and will be shot dead if they are unfortunate enough to stop to check there seismic sensor, have had this module taken from them, and planted straight in the hands of those mechs which can afford to stop for a couple of seconds, namely, those mechs you so wish to shoot in the back. Unfortunately, as it is still a viable option to use this on some of the heavies and assualts, your jenner is unlikely to see any benifit to this nerf, infact, you may now be questioning, do they have a seismic or not, and when your 200 meters out, they will turn on you. At least before, you knew with practical certainty that you couldnt cross that 250m line without being spotted, better the devil you know

It was a legal wallhack that anyone who didn't want to have a huge disadvantage with situational awareness MUST equip.
With the nerf, I have easily replaced seismic sensor with Advance Target Decay and I no longer feel at a major disadvantage for doing so.

After mastering the Locust.. I have taken the lesson to heart that a Light mech should always to be on the move to throw off the aim of high alpha snipers and spread damage. So.. No thanks to Seismic and standing still..
I will use line of sight and speed of the light instead, as it should be.

[d34th4nd]

I am a little concerned for the future proof of yet to be included items now mind, as say a module is released to say make ams's have twice their range so from 90m to 180m, then all of a sudden lrm boats start to complain that......."wha my lrm's don't work anymore it was hard enough targeting someone else s target and pressing my designated button to launch, pgi change this...stomp!" so pgi's answer is OK it only works while the mech with said module is moving. with this current mentality of Nerf rather than include a counter from now on ill be far more aware of purchases with the mentality of "well it could be nerfed" many good points here yes seismic became vital and everyone had it and if you didn't you were infact under powered i just feel the way this was handled was possibly not the best, but we'll adapt now. someone else used SW:TOR as an example of "balancing"and had a valuable point that i relate to with many a year put in to a small game known as world of Warcraft, blizzards mentality wasn't bring fresh ideas into the game but rather change how your char worked so you would have to relearn your toon, imo? not fun, i no longer play, haven't for years and now that game has a declining player base. I LOVE THIS GAME, I LOVE MECHWARRIOR, HAVE DONE SINCE MW2 IN THE 90'S THIS IS OUR LAST HOPE FOR THE SERIES AS MICROSOFT DOESN'T SEEM TO CARE PLEASE JUST DON'T MAKE ME FEEL THIS IS A NEW WOW AND MAKE ME LEAVE, THEIRS NOT ENOUGH STUMPY ROBOT ACTION OUT THERE, i thank you for your time

[NuclearPanda]

ShinVector, on 06 November 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

It was a legal wallhack that anyone who didn't want to have a huge disadvantage with situational awareness MUST equip.
With the nerf, I have easily replaced seismic sensor with Advance Target Decay and I no longer feel at a major disadvantage for doing so.

After mastering the Locust.. I have taken the lesson to heart that a Light mech should always to be on the move to throw off the aim of high alpha snipers and spread damage. So.. No thanks to Seismic and standing still..
I will use line of sight and speed of the light instead, as it should be.

[Thipequz]

ShinVector, on 06 November 2013 - 08:38 AM, said:

It was a legal wallhack that anyone who didn't want to have a huge disadvantage with situational awareness MUST equip.
With the nerf, I have easily replaced seismic sensor with Advance Target Decay and I no longer feel at a major disadvantage for doing so.

After mastering the Locust.. I have taken the lesson to heart that a Light mech should always to be on the move to throw off the aim of high alpha snipers and spread damage. So.. No thanks to Seismic and standing still..
I will use line of sight and speed of the light instead, as it should be.

I can't agree with you more, running a light without it (in its current state) will make very little difference, and yes, there should never be a "must have" piece of equipment. Situational awareness, speed, cover and your eyes are and still will be your best tools for surviving, but there is no doubt that the module (as it was) saved the life of my mech more times than I can count. There is no way to have eyes in the back of your head, and no way to tell if behind that building there is a dual AC20 jager who is going to blow your leg off in one shot. Frustratingly, there is now a way for that jager to know you are the other side of that building, as it is still viable for heavies and assualts to use this. So I ask you, is it balanced now?