269 replies to this topic

[TexAce]

1. This was 12vs12
2. Tonnage limits are coming (625 tons for 12man)
3. What was your point again?

[Banditman]

Honestly, the best solution is one that uses both tonnage limits and class limits both individually and in combination.

Imagine hitting launch with four mechs in your personal hangar to choose from. You arrive at the lobby screen to find out exactly what your limits are. You don't know til you get there.

Will it be tonnage? Will it be classes? A combination? That's what will bring diversity to the battlefield.

One match you get thrown a straight class restriction of 3/3/3/3 . . . or maybe 4/2/4/2 . . . or whatever. Another match you get a straight limit of 750 tons . . . or maybe 680 tons . . . or maybe 830 tons . . . whatever. In a third situation you get thrown a 3/3/3/3 + maximum of 725 tons.

That would be FUN. However, PGI would have to counterbalance that by DRAMATICALLY increasing the rewards, both in CBills and XP, for those more complex matches.

[NextGame]

Weztside, on 06 November 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

Who said that mwo was even trying to be an esport?

[Joseph Mallan]

Kunae, on 07 November 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

12v12(and 8v8 before it) has no weight-class matching, by design.

For a real "competitive" game, everything needs to be properly balanced, and consistent. This wildly changing extreme meta environment that PGI has created, just does not work for that purpose.

Competitive:

Quote

: of or relating to a situation in which people or groups are trying to win a contest or be more successful than others : relating to or involving competition

: having a strong desire to win or be the best at something

: as good as or better than others of the same kind : able to compete successfully with others

Balanced:

Quote

: the state of having your weight spread equally so that you do not fall[/color]

: the ability to move or to remain in a position without losing control or falling[/color]

: a state in which different things occur in equal or proper amounts or have an equal or proper amount of importance

The two do not mean the same thing.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 November 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[Kunae]

NextGame, on 07 November 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

Who said that mwo was even trying to be an esport?

Paul/Bryan/Russ, in a number of interviews.

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

Competitive:

Balanced:

The two do not mean the same thing.

Let's try not to be pedantic, there, Joseph.

In the context of this thread, and the fact that I put it in quotes, I am obviously referring to a class of play rather than the literal definition of competition.

[Ngamok]

Detoxx, on 06 November 2013 - 09:06 PM, said:

I like cheese

[Bagheera]

My favorite part about the OP is that he's driving a D-DC in a lance of D-DC's and bitching about a team full of D-DC's. Looks like OP got a taste of his own medicine and didn't like it.

[Kunae]

Ngamok, on 07 November 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

Nothin's beddar, than a hunk of cheddar!

[NextGame]

Kunae, on 07 November 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

Paul/Bryan/Russ, in a number of interviews.

Could have fooled me. If you release without features such as private lobbys, and neither support community competition initiatives nor provide your own then that ship has already sailed tbh. Game balance or lack thereof doesn't even begin to factor into that topic when those items aren't present.

Edited by NextGame, 07 November 2013 - 07:14 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kunae, on 07 November 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

Paul/Bryan/Russ, in a number of interviews.



Let's try not to be pedantic, there, Joseph.

In the context of this thread, and the fact that I put it in quotes, I am obviously referring to a class of play rather than the literal definition of competition.

How balanced was Boxing back in the Day of Mohamed Ali or Mike Tyson? They were hands down the best, and still people competed with them. Competition and Balance are not equal. And never should be. I am competitive, asking for a level playing field isn't.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 November 2013 - 07:14 AM.

[Hellcat420]

TexAss, on 07 November 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

1. This was 12vs12
2. Tonnage limits are coming (625 tons for 12man)
3. What was your point again?

the only thing tonnage limits will do is screw up the tournaments such as the marik campaign. it wont help pug matchs at all. tonnage limits are a horrible idea, they should use weight class matching like they did in cb.

Edited by Hellcat420, 07 November 2013 - 07:16 AM.

[Macbrea]

I am just going to leave this here for you...

[Wispsy]

Most esports (world of tanks has that ****? Who knew...I am a pretty big gamer and I did not even know of that game till I started here :/) balance their game so the majority of classes/characters/roles can be taken and win, usually the best outcome happens when you have a balanced team focused around one style of play. MWO does not want this, which is why it will never kick off properly as an esport, because instead they just want to make the most expensive classes the strongest. Then, to give it the appearance of balance, they impose limits so at least some people need to be fodder for you to play. This way you still see other classes and it is not just 9highlanders3jenner. Then when you point to demographics of what people play you can say "OH LOOK A LARGE NUMBER OF THINGS ARE PLAYED, OUR GAME IS REALLY BALANCED" as if they would play those things without being forced to...however every time one of those mechs tries to go at a highlander they are going to get wrecked...so games of skilled people will basically be like pugstomping 4mans. Either take out their big mechs with your big mechs and unless t is ridiculously close(which is rare even given equal skill) or avoid each other and have a competition at who can clean up the enemies lighter mechs first, hoping for a 3+ mech advantage when you do go at their assaults so you have numbers advantage. Welcome to a game in which half the members in each team get to contribute to the outcome of the match 5% of the time, whilst they declare all is balanced because people do not just play one mech...

Honestly this game will not become an esport unless they allow for all assault teams that will not get basecapped (else both teams just sit at base whole game if it is for high stakes) because this would lead to nice even fights, or they bring assaults in line with every other weight class...but well then I guess they would get less immediate money...so whatever, unlikely. I guess we shall just go with the illusion of balance and get pretty much what that guy described world of tanks play as being...few big heavy hitters and a couple of useless people as extra eyes just because you need more people in the team to be able to play.

[TexAce]

Hellcat420, on 07 November 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

the only thing tonnage limits will do is screw up the tournaments such as the marik campaign. it wont help pug matchs at all. tonnage limits are a horrible idea, they should use weight class matching like they did in cb.

this thread is not about pugging, you cant get 12 atlai in a pug match on your team.
Besides 1st you don't know if tonnage limits will come to PUG matches, too.
And 2nd you don't know if tonnage limits will not be paired with class limits
And 3rd private matches and lobbies are also coming.
And 4th before saying it won't work why not first test it?

[Joseph Mallan]

Whats wrong with that Pict?

House Marik does not produce Atlases!

[Ngamok]

DrSlamastika, on 07 November 2013 - 05:29 AM, said:

Why? because on one side, are all guys death and on other side we are all alive thats not balanced match for me.

Was this a 12 vs. 12 because we are talking 12 vs. 12 here, not pug vs. pug.

[Bagheera]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Whats wrong with that Pict?

House Marik does not produce Atlases!

Dude. Stahp.

Next you're going to tell me there are no Victors in the FRR, and that's just not okay.

We wanted a little historical re-write for MW:O. Looks like we got one, just not the one we wanted.

[Sasha Volkova]

Noone seems to understand that E-sports would be only premades...

[Kunae]

0okami, on 07 November 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

Noone seems to understand that E-sports would be only premades...

Everyone understands this. What you may not understand is that "premades" are ~85% of this game.

[Ecto Cooler]

Did anyone else read the title of the thread and go, "Who cares?"

Here I was playing for fun.