213 replies to this topic

[Roadbeer]

TychoTheItinerant, on 13 November 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

That's right, mods, go ahead and delete the post where I just called Heffay a brownnosing little yapdog. Your ship is sinking and you're trying to bail it out with sewing thimbles.

Just because someone

thinks you're inept

and petulant.

Doesn't mean they're

a PGI "brown-noser"

This little bit of advice

brought to you by your

old Uncle Roadbeer.

[TychoTheItinerant]

Roadbeer, on 13 November 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

Just because someone

thinks you're inept

and petulant.

Doesn't mean they're

a PGI "brown-noser"

This little bit of advice

brought to you by your

old Uncle Roadbeer.

Heffay's got his face so far into PGI's collective rusty-sheriff's-badge (**** you, censors) that the only thing keeping him from suffocating is a steady supply of hot (and fetid) air rumbling down Russ and Co.'s lower GI tracts. When I call Heffay an asskisser I'm calling a spade a spade, "Uncle".

Edited by TychoTheItinerant, 13 November 2013 - 12:48 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Your nerdrage

is just so damn

cute.

[TychoTheItinerant]

Roadbeer, on 13 November 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Your nerdrage

is just so damn

cute.

And your saccharine, patronizing tone is the last refuge of a talentless hack of a would-be troll. Try harder.

[Roadbeer]

TychoTheItinerant, on 13 November 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

And your saccharine, patronizing tone is the last refuge of a talentless hack of a would-be troll. Try harder.

Here is what's adoreable

about you and those

other mouth-breathing

neckbeards on the "other"

forum.

You all suffer from delusions

that anyone, and I mean

ANYONE cares about your thoughts.

Or your angst over (insert thing here).

Your self-importance is your

undoing.

I know mommy told you that

you are a special snowflake,

but I hate to break it to you,

that is not the case.

By the way you post, I can

tell that you probably haven't

spent a dime on the game,

which makes you simply

a statistic, and a freeloader

to boot, further making your

opinions irrelevant.

You are content, both in the

game and on the forum, and

worthy of no further thought than

that bit of terrain that traps my leg

and keeps me from forward

momentum.

I acknowledge you because

it amuses me to do so. You

should be grateful, because

otherwise, you are just screaming

at a wall.

[TychoTheItinerant]

Roadbeer, on 13 November 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

Here is what's adoreable

about you and those

other mouth-breathing

neckbeards on the "other"

forum.

You all suffer from delusions

that anyone, and I mean

ANYONE cares about your thoughts.

Or your angst over (insert thing here).

Your self-importance is your

undoing.

I know mommy told you that

you are a special snowflake,

but I hate to break it to you,

that is not the case.

By the way you post, I can

tell that you probably haven't

spent a dime on the game,

which makes you simply

a statistic, and a freeloader

to boot, further making your

opinions irrelevant.

You are content, both in the

game and on the forum, and

worthy of no further thought than

that bit of terrain that traps my leg

and keeps me from forward

momentum.

I acknowledge you because

it amuses me to do so. You

should be grateful, because

otherwise, you are just screaming

at a wall.

[RG Notch]

Roadbeer, on 13 November 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

Here is what's adoreable

about you and those

other mouth-breathing

neckbeards on the "other"

forum.

You all suffer from delusions

that anyone, and I mean

ANYONE cares about your thoughts.

Or your angst over (insert thing here).

Your self-importance is your

undoing.

I know mommy told you that

you are a special snowflake,

but I hate to break it to you,

that is not the case.

By the way you post, I can

tell that you probably haven't

spent a dime on the game,

which makes you simply

a statistic, and a freeloader

to boot, further making your

opinions irrelevant.

You are content, both in the

game and on the forum, and

worthy of no further thought than

that bit of terrain that traps my leg

and keeps me from forward

momentum.

I acknowledge you because

it amuses me to do so. You

should be grateful, because

otherwise, you are just screaming

at a wall.

That's interesting that no one cares, yet a mod cared enough to bury a thread that discussed it. So some one cares. In fact someone at PGI/IGP cared so much about the negative posting that there is no General Discussion forum anymore. If no one cared they would just let them yell at the wall. Unfortunately when the yelling is drowning everything else it's time to care.
Now normally a team having so much yelling would see what the yelling was about, here they just remove General Discussion and shunt negative threads here. Healthy games don't do this, please find a successful game that doesn't have a General Discussion forum.
Now this particular poster is just noise but not all the complaining was. One way to improve the signal to noise ratio is to actually see what the noise is about, another is to just try to remove the noise.

[Roadbeer]

We've had that conversation, and I don't disagree, but GD became so polluted with people who didn't know how to post, and the first 10 posts were on the same topic because narcissism trumped conversation, something HAD to be done.

Merging threads made the conversation disjointed and hard to follow, and when redundant threads were deleted, butthurtedness was soon to follow and cries of Goodwin's Law, because someone thought their thread on the topic was infinitely more important than the other.

I found the rage over the splitting of the forum even more entertaining because they continued to do the things that caused it to be split in the first place, rather than learn from the fact that their toy was just taken away from them because they didn't know how to take care of it, they continued to smash the rest of their toys.

You can't honestly tell me that it was easy to find an intelligent and useful thread on any particular topic when you had to wade through 15 posts about ECM rage. Personally, I *DO* like the format change. QQ is easy to wade through and good posts are simple to find.

[TychoTheItinerant]

Roadbeer, on 13 November 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

QQ is easy to wade through and good posts are simple to find.

Translation: "It's now MUCH easier for PGI and their whiteknights, brownnosers and goldstars-in-denial to ignore the water coming in. What, me worry?"

[RG Notch]

Roadbeer, on 13 November 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

We've had that conversation, and I don't disagree, but GD became so polluted with people who didn't know how to post, and the first 10 posts were on the same topic because narcissism trumped conversation, something HAD to be done.

Merging threads made the conversation disjointed and hard to follow, and when redundant threads were deleted, butthurtedness was soon to follow and cries of Goodwin's Law, because someone thought their thread on the topic was infinitely more important than the other.

I found the rage over the splitting of the forum even more entertaining because they continued to do the things that caused it to be split in the first place, rather than learn from the fact that their toy was just taken away from them because they didn't know how to take care of it, they continued to smash the rest of their toys.

You can't honestly tell me that it was easy to find an intelligent and useful thread on any particular topic when you had to wade through 15 posts about ECM rage. Personally, I *DO* like the format change. QQ is easy to wade through and good posts are simple to find.

So why can other games, with a similar demographic of players manage to maintain a GD forum? Is it because the players are so radically different, or the development and community management here is so poor?
The continual blame on the players is the height of hilarity. Are you new to the internet? Because I've been around a lot of game forums and I've yet to see one as poorly managed. Now I'm sure you'll spin this as again the fault of the players, but I ask again why only this forum?
I note you spend lots of time poking the silly easy target but don't answer my direct questions. I know you will say you are bored of the same argument in the same thread, but until I get some answers I will continue to post them.
The toxicity of these forums is the fault of both players and developers. The developers have far more ability to fix this and far more control over whether it improves or worsens. If they simply are in over their heads they should say so and try to work with the community. Yes there are trolls and troublemakers who can't be reasoned with as well as the tools that will defend PGI no matter what. The majority falls in between. If they would simply acknowledge issues and explain them they would be in a better boat than thinking silence is golden. When they don't say anything, miss deadlines and don't even acknowledge them it allows discontent to fester. Own up, and take responsibility and then you really can blame the players if they won't be reasonable. Ignoring things and just having the mods try to sweep things away helps no one.
Maybe they should hire a Community Manager, well one that would actually manage the community's real issues and not post {Scrap} about what color to paint his cicada or dog memes.

[Roadbeer]

TychoTheItinerant, on 13 November 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

Translation: "It's now MUCH easier for PGI and their whiteknights, brownnosers and goldstars-in-denial to ignore the water coming in. What, me worry?"

LOL, I can

flatulate better

posts than you.

1/10.

Try harder Corky

[TychoTheItinerant]

Roadbeer, on 13 November 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

LOL, I can

flatulate better

posts than you.

1/10.

Try harder Corky

I've seen exactly zero evidence of such an ability so far, so I'm kinda skeptical about that one, Toots.

[Roadbeer]

RG Notch, on 13 November 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

So why can other games, with a similar demographic of players manage to maintain a GD forum? Is it because the players are so radically different, or the development and community management here is so poor?
The continual blame on the players is the height of hilarity. Are you new to the internet? Because I've been around a lot of game forums and I've yet to see one as poorly managed. Now I'm sure you'll spin this as again the fault of the players, but I ask again why only this forum?
I note you spend lots of time poking the silly easy target but don't answer my direct questions. I know you will say you are bored of the same argument in the same thread, but until I get some answers I will continue to post them.
The toxicity of these forums is the fault of both players and developers. The developers have far more ability to fix this and far more control over whether it improves or worsens. If they simply are in over their heads they should say so and try to work with the community. Yes there are trolls and troublemakers who can't be reasoned with as well as the tools that will defend PGI no matter what. The majority falls in between. If they would simply acknowledge issues and explain them they would be in a better boat than thinking silence is golden. When they don't say anything, miss deadlines and don't even acknowledge them it allows discontent to fester. Own up, and take responsibility and then you really can blame the players if they won't be reasonable. Ignoring things and just having the mods try to sweep things away helps no one.
Maybe they should hire a Community Manager, well one that would actually manage the community's real issues and not post {Scrap} about what color to paint his cicada or dog memes.

I agree with you. PGI has a pride issue and I believe, as you do, that they are in WAY over their heads. They could have done much more early on to steer the community in the right direction, and failed to. It's on them to make that up.
I've said as much, when I said they went OB WAAAAYYYY too early, and had to suddenly deal with the shift from BT/MW Diehards who were willing to throw out their money on the project, and then suddenly deal with the freeloading derps, who didn't care about the IP, they just wanted it all and wanted it now.
I acknowledge their missteps, and I don't think I'm saying anything that I haven't already said in this thread at least once. Through arrogance or ignorance, PGI has made some mistakes, I'm just more tolerant and patient than others I guess. I don't pull out my crystal ball to cast out into the future and profess the inevitable demise of the product. I just wait and see.
When I see something I like, I buy MC and tell them that they've gotten their cookie for being good, when they do something I don't, I tell them "No MC for you this month" (Currently I'm one of those players who is unable to play because of the removal of FSWG. contacted support, post in the relevant threads, and made it clear "No more cookies for you until it's fixed").

So, in short, yes.. PGI needs to admit their failings, but basic human nature prevents this, as nobody likes to admit when they've made a mistake (that's 2 marriages of experience speaking there). But I also think that it wouldn't make a difference to most of those on that "other" forum if they did. They're the type to just point and laugh and mock them for their sincerity, people like the tag-along that remains in this thread even though he is WAY outclassed, having said all that. I do see PGI trying, maybe it's too late? Who knows?

Edit: As to your second paragraph. I've been on the internet since around the time that Al Gore invented it. I do, however, feel that this forum is somewhat unique since it's combining those who love the IP with those who are glorified console gamers. Remember, when the last real Mechwarrior title was released, Consoles were in their infancy, and the bar required by PC gamers is much higher than that of your average console gamer, and that's when immersion collides with calls for NERF and BUFF.

Edited by Roadbeer, 13 November 2013 - 02:14 PM.

[Heffay]

Roadbeer, on 13 November 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

but basic human nature prevents this, as nobody likes to admit when they've made a mistake (that's 2 marriages of experience speaking there).

I thought that was marriage 101: You're always wrong. Because if you're right and point it out, you're all of a sudden wrong about that.

"Yes dear, the sun does rise in the west and the moon is made of green cheese." The secret is sounding sincere when you say that.

Roadbeer, on 13 November 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

But I also think that it wouldn't make a difference to most of those on that "other" forum if they did. They're the type to just point and laugh and mock them for their sincerity,

That's exactly what happened when PGI apologized and explained their reasoning for the 3PV decisions. People took the "this is our decision and we apologize for the inconvenience" message and just heard "we're not changing it, suck a bag of {Richard Cameron}" instead.

Edited by Heffay, 13 November 2013 - 02:17 PM.

[TychoTheItinerant]

Heffay, on 13 November 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

That's exactly what happened when PGI apologized and explained their reasoning for the 3PV decisions. People took the "this is our decision and we apologize for the inconvenience" message and just heard "we're not changing it, suck a bag of {Richard Cameron}" instead.

There was absolutely nothing sincere in that apology. Nothing. It was a disingenuous attempt to shift blame.

[RG Notch]

Roadbeer, on 13 November 2013 - 02:09 PM, said:

I agree with you. PGI has a pride issue and I believe, as you do, that they are in WAY over their heads. They could have done much more early on to steer the community in the right direction, and failed to. It's on them to make that up.
I've said as much, when I said they went OB WAAAAYYYY too early, and had to suddenly deal with the shift from BT/MW Diehards who were willing to throw out their money on the project, and then suddenly deal with the freeloading derps, who didn't care about the IP, they just wanted it all and wanted it now.
I acknowledge their missteps, and I don't think I'm saying anything that I haven't already said in this thread at least once. Through arrogance or ignorance, PGI has made some mistakes, I'm just more tolerant and patient than others I guess. I don't pull out my crystal ball to cast out into the future and profess the inevitable demise of the product. I just wait and see.
When I see something I like, I buy MC and tell them that they've gotten their cookie for being good, when they do something I don't, I tell them "No MC for you this month" (Currently I'm one of those players who is unable to play because of the removal of FSWG. contacted support, post in the relevant threads, and made it clear "No more cookies for you until it's fixed").

So, in short, yes.. PGI needs to admit their failings, but basic human nature prevents this, as nobody likes to admit when they've made a mistake (that's 2 marriages of experience speaking there). But I also think that it wouldn't make a difference to most of those on that "other" forum if they did. They're the type to just point and laugh and mock them for their sincerity, people like the tag-along that remains in this thread even though he is WAY outclassed, having said all that. I do see PGI trying, maybe it's too late? Who knows?

Well then maybe tone it down a notch on the blame the player base or even that lame part of the player base that reacts that way. I have no problem with people who like the game and are happy. I'm against the people who think that the people who aren't happy are all entitled morons who want the game to fail. The relentless defender who can't let a negative post against PGI go unretorted. The ignore list serves a useful function.
I get it's fun to torment these easy marks, and this is the forum to do it in. I just find the blaming the players silly and the fear mongering that if MWO fails there will never be another MW/BT game. If that's true the IP is lame. Good IPs survive incompetent developers, and I doubt this crew could kill BT/MW. If it takes a few years, oh well I survived without a BT/MW for 10 or so years. I can't see clinging to a sub par game as it's the only game in town helping anything except PGI's bottom line and that's not my concern.

[Roadbeer]

TychoTheItinerant, on 13 November 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

I've seen exactly zero evidence of such an ability so far, so I'm kinda skeptical about that one, Toots.

Please, son

I have been

able to call into

question:

Your parentage

education,

age,

maturity

and intellect.

all while you've

turned those on

your side, against

you.

And have done it

without being

moderated, filtered

or needing edit, and all

of it in right side format.

School is over, now run

along, I'm having a

conversation with

Mr. Notch.

[Roadbeer]

RG Notch, on 13 November 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

Well then maybe tone it down a notch on the blame the player base or even that lame part of the player base that reacts that way. I have no problem with people who like the game and are happy. I'm against the people who think that the people who aren't happy are all entitled morons who want the game to fail. The relentless defender who can't let a negative post against PGI go unretorted. The ignore list serves a useful function.
I get it's fun to torment these easy marks, and this is the forum to do it in. I just find the blaming the players silly and the fear mongering that if MWO fails there will never be another MW/BT game. If that's true the IP is lame. Good IPs survive incompetent developers, and I doubt this crew could kill BT/MW. If it takes a few years, oh well I survived without a BT/MW for 10 or so years. I can't see clinging to a sub par game as it's the only game in town helping anything except PGI's bottom line and that's not my concern.

You're right, blaming the players is much easier because there are more of them to swing the bat at.
But it's not like BT/MW is a hot IP, otherwise it wouldn't have taken 10 years for someone to pick up the mantle. But as I type that, I realize that the IP has been in a legal quagmire for the bulk of that time, so maybe you have a point that SHOULD PGI fail, it would get picked up rather quickly. M$ willing.

[TychoTheItinerant]

Roadbeer, on 13 November 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Please, son

I have been

able to call into

question:

Your parentage

education,

age,

maturity

and intellect.

all while you've

turned those on

your side, against

you.

And have done it

without being

moderated, filtered

or needing edit, and all

of it in right side format.

School is over, now run

along, I'm having a

conversation with

Mr. Notch.

Lick my ***, Roadkill.

[Roadbeer]

TychoTheItinerant, on 13 November 2013 - 02:32 PM, said:

You win, Mr. Roadbeer.

FTFY