193 replies to this topic

[Der Hesse]

LRM 15 (most used, other Stats are comparable):
685114 fired, 220428 Damage total
0,32 Damage/Shot

ERPPC:
12307 fired, 67283 Damage total
5.46 Damage/Shot

LRM 15 with Artemis: 8 Tons, 4 Slots (+ Ammo)
ERPPC : 7 Tons, 3 Slots (+ Heatsinks)

LURMAGEDDON included in the Stats and only used in massive boats.
So how are LRMs overpowered?

[Victor Morson]

In order to shoot someone effectively with an AC/20:
1: Stick an AC/20 and throw on 3-4 tons of ammo
2: Point at the Target
3: Walk up to them
4: Click Button

In order to shoot someone effectively with an LRM/20
1: Equip support sub-systems (TAG, Artemis, BAP)
2: Put at least 4-5 tons of ammo for at least two launchers
3: Equip at least 25-30 missiles so that you can bypass AMS
4: Locate a target and run out of minimum range.
5: Shake those ECM mechs messing up your lock!
6: Counter ECM and obtain a lock capable of actually tracking by moving to within 750 and try to hold a TAG on them!
7: Make sure your missiles have a clear flight path to go up, cross, and come down and won't get intercepted by any rocks or buildings, so position yourself accordingly!
8: After you obtain lock, gauge if your missiles can reach before you lose lock. If yes, fire.
9: Promptly lose lock because, of course, nobody can keep anything locked on your team and you lost LOS, watching your missiles crash into the dirt.
10: Regain lock and continue trying to fire, holding it yourself this time
11: Watch half your missiles get knocked out of the sky by a light that's not even paying attention to you
12: Try again
13: Well, he fell behind cover, then pulled just out of 1000m
14: Get a new target and goto 4

LRMs probably have the worst accuracy rate of any weapon hands down. Easy mode indeed.

Metalsand, on 17 November 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

May I refer you to my post where I achieved 826 damage on my second day of using an LRM boat, and had no trouble doing so? Stop being afraid that the devs will nerf your beloved missile boats back down to being balanced.

Damage in PUGS COUNTS FOR LESS THAN NOTHING.

I have, quite literally, seen far more damage than that posted as "proof" of how good MGs are from freaking Spider pilots.

The reason you are getting such high damage in such a terrible missile boat is because the people you are fighting are so low ELO they don't know how to evade missiles. Period. The end. Which is the same reason I could take a horrendous LBX/10 in and score huge damage pounding on newbies backs at 3AM if I felt like it, doesn't make the gun good.

Edited by Victor Morson, 18 November 2013 - 01:37 AM.

[Victor Morson]

ColonelMetus, on 17 November 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

ac 30/40 illya/jager requires you to actually aim your weapons, LRMS do auto hits and usually ignore cover

AC30/40 can be targeted at specific locations
LRMs cannot
AC30/40 need 0.1 seconds on target to hit
AC30/40 have no minimum range
LRMs do
AC30/40 do great damage beyond listed range
LRMs don't
There is no counter-gear for AC30/40
There is for LRMs

Plus..

LRMs need 3-4 seconds lock time
LRMs need additional lock time to break ECM with TAG
LRMs need to hold tag (by aiming) on a target all the way in, if they want to hit anything moving faster than 80.

Truly, twin AC/20s is "more skill" than an LRM boat.

Edited by Victor Morson, 18 November 2013 - 01:41 AM.

[Rushin Roulette]

Metalsand, on 14 November 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

...Yes, a good boat needs at least 40-60 missiles total which is easily achievable if you are actually running an LRM boat and not a Hunchback 4SP.

This is where I find that you have no idea about how a real LRM mech is set up and played. The 4SP is actually one of the most effective LRM mechs around. It is great that many mechs can take 60-100 missile tubes, but if they have that many LRMs, then they will be completely useless if anything gets close and their LRMs can easily be outmaneuvered by a legged Urban Mech at the ranges these players usually opperate.

With a medium with 2*ALRM15 launchers and enough speed you can, more than often, make sure that you can fire when you are guaranteed a lock and if not, then you have the maneuverability to get into position fast enough to make your next hit count. You haev a TAG laser to get a lock through ECM and with 4 Med lasers in the arms you also have enough close range firepower to discourage long fights with light mechs.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Victor Morson, on 18 November 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

In order to shoot someone effectively with an LRM/20
1: Equip support sub-systems (TAG, Artemis, BAP)
2: Put at least 4-5 tons of ammo for at least two launchers
3: Equip at least 25-30 missiles so that you can bypass AMS
4: Locate a target and run out of minimum range.
5: Shake those ECM mechs messing up your lock!
6: Counter ECM and obtain a lock capable of actually tracking by moving to within 750 and try to hold a TAG on them!
7: Make sure your missiles have a clear flight path to go up, cross, and come down and won't get intercepted by any rocks or buildings, so position yourself accordingly!
8: After you obtain lock, gauge if your missiles can reach before you lose lock. If yes, fire.
9: Promptly lose lock because, of course, nobody can keep anything locked on your team and you lost LOS, watching your missiles crash into the dirt.
10: Regain lock and continue trying to fire, holding it yourself this time
11: Watch half your missiles get knocked out of the sky by a light that's not even paying attention to you
12: Try again
13: Well, he fell behind cover, then pulled just out of 1000m
14: Get a new target and goto 4

LRMs probably have the worst accuracy rate of any weapon hands down. Easy mode indeed.

you're doing it the hard way.

this method is how the ezpeople are doing it.

premade: 2 lurm boats 2 spotters

spotting lights rush in and laydown arty and air to distract the enemy, uavs are then deployed

with target decay equiped lurmers have any target they want for however long they want because the enemy will not realise theres an uav at work, the only counter is to spot the uav or get the lurmers whilst heavy rain comes in. that's how pro trolls do it, beleive me i learned the hard way being ousted first so i was too busy falling back two grids worth under rain to have a chance spotting the uav and you can't run and type the instructions to teammates "get the UAV!" they will sit there not bothering to go the long way around and flank but simply let it all happen and lose. then call out "lurm trolls" "if it weren't for ez lurms we'd have had you" etc. or they start threads like this.

L2 understand how the game works so you can counter and win, these modules and stuffs is new on me so take your loss and learn from it.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 18 November 2013 - 03:09 AM.

[Victor Morson]

GalaxyBluestar, on 18 November 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

premade: 2 lurm boats 2 spotters

No premades bother using spotters. LRM spotting outside of actual brawling is dumb and will get you killed.

Also your post is borderline incoherent and filled with a pretty inaccurate perception of how LRMs work, and their place on the field right now.

Edited by Victor Morson, 18 November 2013 - 03:11 AM.

[Burke IV]

GalaxyBluestar, on 18 November 2013 - 03:07 AM, said:

you're doing it the hard way.

this method is how the ezpeople are doing it.

premade: 2 lurm boats 2 spotters

spotting lights rush in and laydown arty and air to distract the enemy, uavs are then deployed

with target decay equiped lurmers have any target they want for however long they want because the enemy will not realise theres an uav at work, the only counter is to spot the uav or get the lurmers whilst heavy rain comes in. that's how pro trolls do it,

I cant tell if you are trying to make a joke. When did extremely simple tactics become pro troll?

Victor, people do use spotters a fair bit. The good ones dont need the UAV and you wont even see the spotter till its too late. Some of the little scamps like to be the mech standing behind you when you die. GG i like to see people actually playing the damn game instead of crying. If team of 12 people is unable to take out an LRM nest its their problem

Edited by Burke IV, 18 November 2013 - 03:19 AM.

[Hidden Mustard]

Clearly a troll thread. I'm brand new at this game and have already grasped how to avoid incoming missile salvos. I also readily perceived the many counters, which include my Locust's dual-AMS system that either renders incoming LRM salvos ineffective and sometimes shoots down all missiles completely. Most of the time with me not even paying attention to the missile spam.

[KharnZor]

Hidden Mustard, on 18 November 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

Clearly a troll thread. I'm brand new at this game and have already grasped how to avoid incoming missile salvos. I also readily perceived the many counters, which include my Locust's dual-AMS system that either renders incoming LRM salvos ineffective and sometimes shoots down all missiles completely. Most of the time with me not even paying attention to the missile spam.

Yea its not hard to get out of the way.

So. Is the general consensus that there is indeed nothing wrong with LRM's apart from some fine tuning?

[Wolfways]

Metalsand, on 17 November 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

Are you ******** me? Please refer to my above post, where I built a x2 20LRM boat out of a Heavy Metal, and proceeded to get 826 damage done in a match that was with my friend who has been playing since Alpha. Why? Because cover does not matter when you use LRM's. On average, about 75% of map cover is useless against an LRM, and if you are playing in Canyon, GG because the only way you can hope to dodge missiles is to fall under the canyon where you will spend 3 minutes getting up one of the ramps if you don't have jump jets.

Keep in mind, that 826 damage was EFFORTLESS, and so was the 526 damage the round prior. I have never had such an easy map in my life, I would wait until I see a target, lock on and fire missiles to troll the **** out of whoever was at the other end. A weapon that you don't even have to guide or aim, and on top of that can hit the enemy behind cover without having to expose yourself is ridiculous. It should not out-perform weapons that you have to risk your mech for...

I've had a Catapult since closed beta and LRM's are one of my favourite weapons (or would be if they weren't nerfed senseless) and i know it's possible to get that kind of damage, but it's rare.
They can be good if used indirect with a spotter (to the point of being OP) but are useless if fired direct.
I disagree about there being a lack of cover as nearly every map is nothing but cover. I know this because i rarely get hit by LRM's and when i do i usually get clipped by the first salvo and then i move a little and watch the rest of the missiles hit the ground.
I'm not sure if i've ever been killed by LRM's but even if i have then it's nothing compared to the amount of damage and kills i've had from every other weapon.
I don't use JJ's and Canyon is one of my favourite maps, but i don't allow enemy mechs to draw me away from cover either.

I'm not sure what you mean by "A weapon that you don't even have to guide" as that's exactly what you do have to do with LRM's. They aren't fire-and-forget as they should be.

If you believe that LRM's are so OP then i can only assume that you have a good spotter friend and/or you are playing against very bad teams, especially if they left you alone so you could fire away most of the match. Also i'd assume that you were using other weapons against anything that did attack you, assuming you were attacked?
I'd have to have a good game to get 800 damage with my Catapult yet 600-800+ is pretty average for my Jagermech with 1000+ being a good game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Metalsand, on 17 November 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

Are you ******** me? Please refer to my above post, where I built a x2 20LRM boat out of a Heavy Metal, and proceeded to get 826 damage done in a match that was with my friend who has been playing since Alpha. Why? Because cover does not matter when you use LRM's. On average, about 75% of map cover is useless against an LRM, and if you are playing in Canyon, GG because the only way you can hope to dodge missiles is to fall under the canyon where you will spend 3 minutes getting up one of the ramps if you don't have jump jets.

Keep in mind, that 826 damage was EFFORTLESS, and so was the 526 damage the round prior. I have never had such an easy map in my life, I would wait until I see a target, lock on and fire missiles to troll the **** out of whoever was at the other end. A weapon that you don't even have to guide or aim, and on top of that can hit the enemy behind cover without having to expose yourself is ridiculous. It should not out-perform weapons that you have to risk your mech for...

Not that I don't believe you. I to have had a few "good games" in an LRMboat, but you played with a friend... SO did he help provide you telemetry?

I would advise you to not base your opinion of a weapon on a handful of games. Play a hundred or so using your build, see where your game levels out at.

[Heavenly Angel]

Why do you want them to nerf everything? Do you want LRM to be another gauss? If anything lasers need to be buffed not the other way around.

[Kilrein]

Otto Cannon, on 17 November 2013 - 05:26 PM, said:

That's why they get called a support weapon. If you start getting hit in the first place though, you're doing it wrong. You only need cover just about high enough to visually hide you so they lose lock. I'm sure you're a good player but it honestly sounds like you need to practice avoidance techniques vs. LRMs.

And let's face it, if you were being hit by sniper weapons instead of LRMs you'd be too dead to be concerned about screenshake. The fact that you think it's the worst thing shows how weak missiles are.

You're right.

I must 'needz lern play bett3r'


Thanks for pointing that out to me as that is quite the tough call as that applies to everyone in a game.

And for confirming why I rarely post as I love people that add words to my post such as 'sniper weapons' because I'm sure confused as to where I said that? And how about responding to ALL the information in the post, not just pick and choose ONE point and ignore the context of the point in reference to the ENTIRE post? Please point out where I said that 'screen shake is the worst thing'? Oh wait, that's because I DIDN'T. Reading Is Fundamental but hey, why bothering reading when you can just fire off a quick 'you're wrong' response without actually taking the time to read a couple of sentences?

Good luck to those that continue to tilt against the windmill of ignorance.

Edited by Kilrein, 18 November 2013 - 06:40 AM.

[Haji1096]

Let me preface my post by saying: I'm not great with LRMS.

IMO, Without good team work LRM boats are a liability. If the other team has a direct fire mech instead of an LRM boat, it increase the odds they can win with pushing together. LRMS should be the premier long range weapon, but their range has a hard limit of 1000 meters. If I'm crossing a wide open area, I should feel fear if the enemy team has LRMS.

If PGI is going to keep the speed of LRMS the same and keep the Missle lock warning. Then LRM range should be increased (1500m ? 2000m ?) and you should be able to target specific points on a map (designated by tag laser ? tag range increased ?). Also you should be able to choose the parabolic arc your missles are going to take.

[Burke IV]

yeah i like that. What about the warheads? surely they can be chosen aswell? im a nuclear man myself, what about you ?

Edited by Burke IV, 18 November 2013 - 07:42 AM.

[Metalsand]

xMEPHISTOx, on 17 November 2013 - 11:05 PM, said:

Any video evidence of these epic endeavors>?

Are you kidding me? Lmao, is a screenshot not good enough for you? That's my Heavy Metal, outfitted with x2 LRM20's. If you're saying the above screenshot isn't good enough for you then you're just fishing for a reason to support LRM's.

Der Hesse, on 18 November 2013 - 01:28 AM, said:

LRM 15 (most used, other Stats are comparable):
685114 fired, 220428 Damage total
0,32 Damage/Shot

ERPPC:
12307 fired, 67283 Damage total
5.46 Damage/Shot

LRM 15 with Artemis: 8 Tons, 4 Slots (+ Ammo)
ERPPC : 7 Tons, 3 Slots (+ Heatsinks)

LURMAGEDDON included in the Stats and only used in massive boats.
So how are LRMs overpowered?

Not my fault you are terrible at them. My second day of using a x2 LRM20 and playing matches with an alpha player, i got 826 damage. Also, you need at least 40 missiles total to boat. It's like saying New York is a small town state, and you've never even been to NYC.

Joseph Mallan, on 18 November 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

Not that I don't believe you. I to have had a few "good games" in an LRMboat, but you played with a friend... SO did he help provide you telemetry?

I would advise you to not base your opinion of a weapon on a handful of games. Play a hundred or so using your build, see where your game levels out at.

LOL NO. He's a {Richard Cameron}, he didn't help with ****. He ran around in his Yen Lo Wang and shot people with AC/20. I wish he would help tag for me though lol. And yeah, I've played about 40 matches with it so far, it's a fairly solid build. It's easy as pie to run, it's what I run when I don't feel like putting effort into a match and I'm feeling lazy. And to think, I'm not even running the maximum LRM's possible.

[Ghogiel]

Victor Morson, on 12 November 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

Except it will also burn itself out from ghost heat, be easily thwarted by AMS and also that is impossible unless you are shooting at stationary light mechs.

Test it yourself. I 2 shotted a CTF.

ggclose

[Joseph Mallan]

Metalsand, on 18 November 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

LOL NO. He's a {Richard Cameron}, he didn't help with ****. He ran around in his Yen Lo Wang and shot people with AC/20. I wish he would help tag for me though lol. And yeah, I've played about 40 matches with it so far, it's a fairly solid build. It's easy as pie to run, it's what I run when I don't feel like putting effort into a match and I'm feeling lazy. And to think, I'm not even running the maximum LRM's possible.

You do a disservice to those who perform this time honored combat role. I for one love it when my team has good Reliable Fire Support.

[VikingN1nja]

Lots of people using LRM's also and ususually 2 boats = insta death... i hate using them it's like armchair warrior. They do have their use for suppression of pop tarts etc.

Edited by omegaorgun, 18 November 2013 - 08:14 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

omegaorgun, on 18 November 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

Lots of people using LRM's also and ususually 2 boats = insta death... i hate using them it's like armchair warrior. They do have their use for suppression of pop tarts etc.

Then you are a fool. They can and should be capable of suppressing more than Pop Tarts.