193 replies to this topic

[Burke IV]

kamiko kross, on 14 November 2013 - 04:29 PM, said:

IF all the stars and planets align, you sacrifice your firstborn AND the enemy pilot ignores the big flashing warnings in front of his face.

I think he means training grounds?

[Bobdolemite]

Metalsand, on 14 November 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

I started a week ago

Its starting to make more sense now. At a week into the game I had some pretty large misconceptions as well. I will caution you though not to take your experience up until this point too seriously. For all intensive purposes you are still a very new player and this game has a STEEP learning curve.

At this point your probably in a weird ELO limbo mixed with other new players and other longer term players fielding new chassis etc. After a couple weeks or months, once you start to learn the maps like the back of your hand you might realize you had been approaching things wrong =)

Take it (or not) from someone who has been here over a year, LRM's have been a constant balancing game and right now they are suffering from a series of nerfs that were never re-addressed. Most of us dont believe they are OP in any way due to our experiences dealing with LRM boats. In todays game most people are delighted to see an LRM boat, chalking it up as a free kill if they can get it separated from the team for a few seconds.

It might be comforting to learn that those that have caused you so much grief probably suffer 2X as much frustration trying to actually hit stuff with their LRM boats. Your experience of blowing half your ammo and having nothing to show for it is..... a universal feeling that all LRM boat pilots feel.

[Lyoto Machida]

Metalsand, on 14 November 2013 - 04:09 PM, said:

Oh, also might I point you over to this thread, where people are sharing their average damages so that I have actual numbers to compliment your ego trip. http://mwomercs.com/...average-damage/

Oh yes...I'm sure their CAREER average damage really relates to their current, mastered mech average damage. Don't forget the meta has changed a few times since stats started being recorded. I never poptarted (2 games in a Highlander ever and 34 games in a CTF-3D)...you think my stats are gonna be the same as someone who exclusively used ERPPC/Gauss/JJs for months during the reign of jumpsnipers?

You could make the same argument against LRMs and their current damage totals...some people are gonna have gaudy numbers that they can no longer produces.

I never said i was the best pilot or had the highest damage totals...just that my LRM numbers are no longer where they were. And yes...if you must know:
AWESOME AWS-8R 273 144 129 1.12 323 144 2.24 90,481 262,321 1 day 03:11:02

That works out to about 331 per game if I did the math right...2.24 k/d isn't even that great and I never used it during any of the LRMpocalypse incidents. It would take too much work/luck to put up 331 a game with LRMs now...I may as well take a 3xAC10 Ilya or AC40 Jag and do it easier (ie: not having to rely on anyone else) while enjoying myself.

[ColonelMetus]

Lyoto Machida, on 14 November 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Oh yes...I'm sure their CAREER average damage really relates to their current, mastered mech average damage. Don't forget the meta has changed a few times since stats started being recorded. I never poptarted (2 games in a Highlander ever and 34 games in a CTF-3D)...you think my stats are gonna be the same as someone who exclusively used ERPPC/Gauss/JJs for months during the reign of jumpsnipers?

You could make the same argument against LRMs and their current damage totals...some people are gonna have gaudy numbers that they can no longer produces.

I never said i was the best pilot or had the highest damage totals...just that my LRM numbers are no longer where they were. And yes...if you must know:
AWESOME AWS-8R 273 144 129 1.12 323 144 2.24 90,481 262,321 1 day 03:11:02

That works out to about 331 per game if I did the math right...2.24 k/d isn't even that great and I never used it during any of the LRMpocalypse incidents. It would take too much work/luck to put up 331 a game with LRMs now...I may as well take a 3xAC10 Ilya or AC40 Jag and do it easier (ie: not having to rely on anyone else) while enjoying myself.

ac 30/40 illya/jager requires you to actually aim your weapons, LRMS do auto hits and usually ignore cover

[Metalsand]

Bobdolemite, on 14 November 2013 - 05:00 PM, said:

Its starting to make more sense now. At a week into the game I had some pretty large misconceptions as well. I will caution you though not to take your experience up until this point too seriously. For all intensive purposes you are still a very new player and this game has a STEEP learning curve.

At this point your probably in a weird ELO limbo mixed with other new players and other longer term players fielding new chassis etc. After a couple weeks or months, once you start to learn the maps like the back of your hand you might realize you had been approaching things wrong =)

Take it (or not) from someone who has been here over a year, LRM's have been a constant balancing game and right now they are suffering from a series of nerfs that were never re-addressed. Most of us dont believe they are OP in any way due to our experiences dealing with LRM boats. In todays game most people are delighted to see an LRM boat, chalking it up as a free kill if they can get it separated from the team for a few seconds.

It might be comforting to learn that those that have caused you so much grief probably suffer 2X as much frustration trying to actually hit stuff with their LRM boats. Your experience of blowing half your ammo and having nothing to show for it is..... a universal feeling that all LRM boat pilots feel.

Bought a heavy metal, outfitted it with two LRM20's yesterday, and did this today:


Because 826 damage with being able to point and click is hard. And don't say that I just got lucky that round, I had 526 damage the previous round. Right, because above 250 damage isn't average for a missile boat...meanwhile in real life, i average about 300-350 boating effortlessly.
Use an LRM boat they said, it's not overpowered they said. Meanwhile, if I were using a STK-5M, I would have had double the DPS. You've got to understand: you don't have to risk much combat nor have to AIM with LRM's...

A weapon that doesn't require risk nor skill to use should not be more powerful than a weapon that requires skill or aim.

Edited by Metalsand, 17 November 2013 - 11:46 AM.

[Metalsand]

Lyoto Machida, on 14 November 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

Oh yes...I'm sure their CAREER average damage really relates to their current, mastered mech average damage. Don't forget the meta has changed a few times since stats started being recorded. I never poptarted (2 games in a Highlander ever and 34 games in a CTF-3D)...you think my stats are gonna be the same as someone who exclusively used ERPPC/Gauss/JJs for months during the reign of jumpsnipers?

You could make the same argument against LRMs and their current damage totals...some people are gonna have gaudy numbers that they can no longer produces.

I never said i was the best pilot or had the highest damage totals...just that my LRM numbers are no longer where they were. And yes...if you must know:
AWESOME AWS-8R 273 144 129 1.12 323 144 2.24 90,481 262,321 1 day 03:11:02

That works out to about 331 per game if I did the math right...2.24 k/d isn't even that great and I never used it during any of the LRMpocalypse incidents. It would take too much work/luck to put up 331 a game with LRMs now...I may as well take a 3xAC10 Ilya or AC40 Jag and do it easier (ie: not having to rely on anyone else) while enjoying myself.

May I refer you to my post where I achieved 826 damage on my second day of using an LRM boat, and had no trouble doing so? Stop being afraid that the devs will nerf your beloved missile boats back down to being balanced.

The funny thing too, is that I was only using two LRM20's, while the STK-5M can mount twice as many, doing an easy 1000 damage with the right setup.

Edited by Metalsand, 17 November 2013 - 11:48 AM.

[MadcatX]

Metalsand, on 17 November 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Bought a heavy metal, outfitted it with two LRM20's yesterday, and did this today:

Because 826 damage with being able to point and click is hard. And don't say that I just got lucky that round, I had 526 damage the previous round. Right, because above 250 damage isn't average for a missile boat...meanwhile in real life, i average about 300-350 boating effortlessly.
Use an LRM boat they said, it's not overpowered they said. Meanwhile, if I were using a STK-5M, I would have had double the DPS. You've got to understand: you don't have to risk much combat nor have to AIM with LRM's...

A weapon that doesn't require risk nor skill to use should not be more powerful than a weapon that requires skill or aim.

So you did 826 damage one round, 526 the previous round and average 300-350. However, how many matches have you done very little damage?

If you say there havn't been many or any at all, then really it's your elo bracket. LRM's will be OP to new folks, but at slighty higher brackets the weapon system is far too circumstantial with two seperate systems the other side can bring onto the field to mitigate damage or shut down your ability to gain lock (unless you or a teammate brings TAG, etc, and knows how to use it). Also while boating you do have the whole "your screwed if enemy gets in closer the min. range". Oh, and you sorta have to sit in the open from the moment you fire them to nearly the moment they hit (depends on your modules).

In a game where pinpoint damage is key, bringing the exact opposite to the field is counter-productive.

Lets stop trying to "fix" LRM's, since god knows how much time over the past couple years the devs have been trying to fix this.

[Metalsand]

MadcatX, on 17 November 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

So you did 826 damage one round, 526 the previous round and average 300-350. However, how many matches have you done very little damage?

If you say there havn't been many or any at all, then really it's your elo bracket. LRM's will be OP to new folks, but at slighty higher brackets the weapon system is far too circumstantial with two seperate systems the other side can bring onto the field to mitigate damage or shut down your ability to gain lock (unless you or a teammate brings TAG, etc, and knows how to use it). Also while boating you do have the whole "your screwed if enemy gets in closer the min. range". Oh, and you sorta have to sit in the open from the moment you fire them to nearly the moment they hit (depends on your modules).

In a game where pinpoint damage is key, bringing the exact opposite to the field is counter-productive.

Lets stop trying to "fix" LRM's, since god knows how much time over the past couple years the devs have been trying to fix this.

I think I did one or two matches out of 20-30 where I did 130 damage after my team abandoned me to a group of 3 lights.

But anyways, you're still making excuses for LRM's every time I counter you. I never said damage needs a nerf despite doing the most damage out of all 5 of my mechs using a 40 LRM boat, which isn't even the most you can mount. I never said accuracy or ammo should be nerfed either. All I am saying is that it should not have the same ability to make cover useless. I only achieved such high damage output because my missiles went over cover, if they didn't make cover their ***** so often, I would have done a normal amount of damage.

Also, I've been platooning with another guy who's been playing since Alpha, so no, I'm actually getting real ELO brackets, not cadet or beginner player brackets. Plus, minimum range only matters if you don't have any weapons for dealing with that, play badly, or your team abandons you, and if you're positioned right, you usually aren't threatened much.

[nehebkau]

Specops12, on 11 November 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

While the damage on lrms is fine, the spread of Artemis lrms and the arc in general is getting ridiculous, most cover not twice the height of your mech seems to do nothing, and lrms will often turn around obstacles if shot at the correct angle. Please lower the firing arc to require more direct fire or something....

Lol are you trolling me?

[Kilrein]

Otto Cannon, on 11 November 2013 - 09:34 PM, said:

Break LOS, move for 4 seconds- tadaaa! You've avoided the missiles!

It's not that hard.

True, if you ONLY had to worry about the enemy LRM mechs.

It's not the damage that is problem. It's the paralysis in movement options once they start connecting, with the combination of cockpit flare and screen shake, moving in the right direction is nearly impossible. And cover available on EVERY map? EVERY map? Not with the current flight path. Sure on the maps with buildings, you can try to hug one high enough and then just sit there and hope the enemy comes to you. Or if your on a map that has terrain features that provide overhead cover you can hide.

It's the continuous damage of them that is frustrating, the fire and forget, visual affects when getting hit by them and the screen shake. Sure, you can 'hide' but then again that's the perfect argument for ANY weapon. 'Hide' and you are safe, at least until the enemy kills the rest of your team while you are taking cover and hunts you down.

Every match I'm in has LRMs, made worse with the Phoenix mechs. Rarely do I die from LRMs, but once I get locked up, the odds of my death from other fire goes up dramatically. Been playing since open beta so I do have over 5000 matches in.

[Otto Cannon]

Kilrein, on 17 November 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Rarely do I die from LRMs, but once I get locked up, the odds of my death from other fire goes up dramatically.

That's why they get called a support weapon. If you start getting hit in the first place though, you're doing it wrong. You only need cover just about high enough to visually hide you so they lose lock. I'm sure you're a good player but it honestly sounds like you need to practice avoidance techniques vs. LRMs.

And let's face it, if you were being hit by sniper weapons instead of LRMs you'd be too dead to be concerned about screenshake. The fact that you think it's the worst thing shows how weak missiles are.

[Burke IV]

I think people are just angry when they cant see who tf is shooting at them and are unable to shoot back. Few days back we are in... river city of all places. "omg they got so many missiles" says one guy. I replyed to him "yes and we have buildings" I was able to stop my game and take the time to type to this guy because at the time i was leaning up against a building listening to the LRMs land on its roof. The first mech i really piloted to any degree was the cat A1. Piloting that mech taught me everything i will ever need to know about dodging LRMs. Because, of course, piloting a LRM boat ought to teach you how to apply them properly.

we lost that game quickly btw. everybody died. all they had to do was stand still but apparently this is advanced tactical thinking


Edit: yes i like my edits... why did the LRMs not demolish the buildings?

Edited by Burke IV, 17 November 2013 - 07:19 PM.

[Wolfways]

ColonelMetus, on 17 November 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

ac 30/40 illya/jager requires you to actually aim your weapons, LRMS do auto hits and usually ignore cover

lol like there's any actual aiming in MWO. It's hard to miss any non-light.
And LRM's do not ignore cover...ever.

[Wolfways]

Burke IV, on 17 November 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

I think people are just angry when they cant see who tf is shooting at them and are unable to shoot back.

This is it exactly. The same reason snipers get nerf after nerf in the BF series.

[CrashieJ]

akpavker, on 11 November 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

lol you for real. maybe you would rather pillow fights with your girlfriends!

I'll take that as a compliment.

[Thunder Child]

Can you imagine the tears if they implemented the Artemis FCS from Mechwarrior 3? You know, the one that allowed your LRM's to follow terrain contours? Yes. There is nowhere to hide.

Or the TAG that dropped an Arrow IV missile on the target after you painted the target for a few seconds...

Edited by Thunder Child, 17 November 2013 - 10:06 PM.

[Metalsand]

Wolfways, on 17 November 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

lol like there's any actual aiming in MWO. It's hard to miss any non-light.
And LRM's do not ignore cover...ever.

Are you ******** me? Please refer to my above post, where I built a x2 20LRM boat out of a Heavy Metal, and proceeded to get 826 damage done in a match that was with my friend who has been playing since Alpha. Why? Because cover does not matter when you use LRM's. On average, about 75% of map cover is useless against an LRM, and if you are playing in Canyon, GG because the only way you can hope to dodge missiles is to fall under the canyon where you will spend 3 minutes getting up one of the ramps if you don't have jump jets.

Keep in mind, that 826 damage was EFFORTLESS, and so was the 526 damage the round prior. I have never had such an easy map in my life, I would wait until I see a target, lock on and fire missiles to troll the **** out of whoever was at the other end. A weapon that you don't even have to guide or aim, and on top of that can hit the enemy behind cover without having to expose yourself is ridiculous. It should not out-perform weapons that you have to risk your mech for...

[xMEPHISTOx]

Metalsand, on 17 November 2013 - 10:53 PM, said:

Are you ******** me? Please refer to my above post, where I built a x2 20LRM boat out of a Heavy Metal, and proceeded to get 826 damage done in a match that was with my friend who has been playing since Alpha. Why? Because cover does not matter when you use LRM's. On average, about 75% of map cover is useless against an LRM, and if you are playing in Canyon, GG because the only way you can hope to dodge missiles is to fall under the canyon where you will spend 3 minutes getting up one of the ramps if you don't have jump jets.

Keep in mind, that 826 damage was EFFORTLESS, and so was the 526 damage the round prior. I have never had such an easy map in my life, I would wait until I see a target, lock on and fire missiles to troll the **** out of whoever was at the other end. A weapon that you don't even have to guide or aim, and on top of that can hit the enemy behind cover without having to expose yourself is ridiculous. It should not out-perform weapons that you have to risk your mech for...

Any video evidence of these epic endeavors>?

[ColonelMetus]

"incomming missile"

oh well ok let me just go and stand next to this hill that is about 50% taller then my battle master.

"missile comes right over the hill then makes a hard 90 degree turn and hits my CT"

WTF mite?

[Gambino87]

Um, I don't think LRM's are OP. True you can damage people without engaging but it's all about positioning. Most of the time in order for me to get good positions I end up away from my team and get flanked Y_Y. Getting flanked in an LRM boat = a bad day.

Anyways, I had a good match here and I'll let the video speak for itself.
http://www.twitch.tv...ino87/c/3260494

EDIT: Just explain something I was doing here. If I'm unsure of a shot, I'll test fire with salvo of LRM 5. Helps figure out it's trajectory AND can be used as suppression fire. If someone see's their screen blow up with INCOMING MISSLE they usually disengage and run for cover buying time for the brawlers to get position. Anyways, just a side thought.

Edited by Gambino87, 18 November 2013 - 12:37 AM.