193 replies to this topic

[Nightcrept]

Dimento Graven, on 18 November 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

Actually there's a large majority of people reading this thread thinking the same of you right now, I can assure you.

I assure you the same is being thought of you. We find you very amusing.

Dimento Graven, on 18 November 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

From the PGI description of the game they have created: http://mwomercs.com/game

So what? They allow us to solo drop so we do. They must or the game will die. Suck it up...lol

Dimento Graven, on 18 November 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

So if you're playing 'however you like without listening to anyone' you're playing counter to the intent of the very core design of this game.

Sorry but most players and people in this world aren't going to care. And it doesn't matter anyway. Players who drop alone will play how they want. If they feel like following you they will. If they don't they won't.

Dimento Graven, on 18 November 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

Yes, THIS is what you said:

Sorry... but that is what you want me to have said. To quote myself I said...."This game allows for individual players and must to survive."
To which I am correct.

Metal sand and the others knew what I meant but you decided to run with your own delusions....lol.

Dimento Graven, on 18 November 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

It seems you want to take a weapon that has been designed from the get go as a TEAM OPTIMIZED weapon and have it re-worked so that it can become 'equally effective' when used on a "solo" basis.

The only way for that to NOT be OP is to change LRMs and to make sure those people using LRM's drop in solo, 1v1 matches, or some form of PvE. Otherwise, when two or more people DO cooperate to use the 'new' soloable LRM's those same LRMs will become over powered.

Show me the post that says lrm's from the get go have been the only weapon designed to be a team optimized weapon?

Dimento Graven, on 18 November 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

If you're pugging, using an LRM boat is a foolish choice. You are not picking a 'mech suitable for your situation, please choose another, your team and ultimately you yourself, will thank you on your good decision.

?....did anyone else just lol?

Dimento Graven, on 18 November 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

It's ridiculous to ask players to press R when targeting, and to hold those targets? I can tell right now we're on two different ELO plains.

Elo doesn't work that way. Don't you even know how elo works?
Players are going to be fighting the best they can and hopefully if your skillz are so elite then all the players on your team know to target mechs before shooting them whenever possible.

Dimento Graven, on 18 November 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

I'm not sure you even understand your point, but be that as it may, you seem to believe that there is a problem with missiles as they currently are, and you are wrong. Let me elaborate my point:

They can be very difficult to use against a savvy team, when you play as an individual.

Against a savvy team, while working with a savvy team of your own, and they can be as effective as any other weapon in the game.

Using missiles against players who don't understand how the missiles work, when you are solo OR as working as a team, they can be ultra devastating just like every other weapon in the game.

MY POINT is, missiles have reached a decent balance point.

I myself hate getting pelted by missiles, because I always feel the guy firing them typically doesn't deserve the points he's going to get, his spotter on the other hand, if he's able to stay out of my sight and keep me targeted, kudos to him, because as soon as find the spotter, I'm going to do my damnedest to make sure he's quickly dead, THEN, I'm going to play peek a boo with the boat until it's dead, UNLESS someone else on his team takes up the spotting slack.

However, unless I'm already seriously damaged, it's going to take the missile boat quite a few salvos to kill me, and I'll be doing my damnedest to make sure as few missiles hit me as possible. However, I also not so concerned with missiles I've bothered equipping AMS on my 'mech. Not many people know how to use them effectively, and not many people know how to scout effectively either.

Yeah and my point is lrms suck.

You need two mechs to kill my one with lrms and additional add ons and equipment if I have ecm any where near me.
You yourself all but say the same.

The difference is that you admit that you don't feel like lrms deserve the points they get.



What I get from talking to you is that you are a pre-made elitist who feels supperior to pugs and feels that lrms are a easy button weapon that should be weaker or require more effort to use then other weapons in the game.

So your opinion is going to naturally trnd towards making lrms as weak as possible.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Burke IV, on 18 November 2013 - 03:16 AM, said:

I cant tell if you are trying to make a joke. When did extremely simple tactics become pro troll?

Victor, people do use spotters a fair bit. The good ones dont need the UAV and you wont even see the spotter till its too late. Some of the little scamps like to be the mech standing behind you when you die. GG i like to see people actually playing the damn game instead of crying. If team of 12 people is unable to take out an LRM nest its their problem

some people have missed the point.

pro troll is different from elite play, trolling is exactly about taking an easy street to decimate, like running all poptarts etc etc.

the main point is Lurms are only as hard as you decide to use them, don't use any modules or equipment then you're gimping yourself. use everything the game provides and it's ez infact you can troll people with them. they're neither OP or UP it depends on your application.

and that's how a tactical game should be, learn the tactics whether they're simple or not or you get what you deserve.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 18 November 2013 - 02:08 PM.

[Nightcrept]

Dimento Graven, on 18 November 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

Some players do press R when they target, some never do, but the UI has been adjusted so that with no target selected as soon as they have a 'mech under the reticule long enough it'll target that 'mech for them. Most players however, are playing with direct fire weapons and it's not necessary for them to have the 'mech they are actually shooting at 'targeted'. Many is the time I see my team mates firing at enemies, but NOT ONE DAMN diamond in the HUD is outlined indicating target, plenty of empty triangles getting hit though.

But hell, even with LRMs it's not absolutely necessary to 'target' what you're firing at. You CAN dumb fire missiles, they just won't track is all. Sometimes there's great advantage to NOT do so. It doesn't make them 'easy mode', or 'overly difficult' to use either way.

Your right. Most players are using direct fire weapons. My experience however is that most players will try to target with r to get an idea of the layout and dmg to the other mech if they can. So either they are naturally targeting for you or they are playing less agressivlely to spot for you. In which case they are sacrificing their own potential damage output for that of your lrms which is generally lower.

The problem with dumb firing them is that they won't arch over terrain they just go to the spot your curser is on.

Dimento Graven, on 18 November 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

You're not loading weapons that can be used close in, and/or, you're not used to much close in fighting. I've got my 4 LRM, 4 ML stalker that I occasionally use, and I'm able to chase away/kill lights readily enough, however your own team's lights may not be doing their jobs if they're not engaging those same lights. Of course, if you're dropping solo, you're at a disadvantage from the get go because now you have to stop and type, "Hey, come help me out in sector C3, I got commandos crawling up my ***!", instead of being able to just hit your PTT button and call for help.

Even if there were in game PTT, solo puggers are still at a disadvantage because without friends no one has a vested interest in keeping you alive. Especially if you're one of those that wants to go off and not listen to anyone else, perhaps your play style causes your teammates to wish you dead...

I think I have stated over and over in this thread that I am a pug only players and only speak from that pov.

I am however very good at close range fighting and do know how to loadout my mechs...lol...that isn't something the pre-mades have an advantage with. The only advantage pre-mades have is coordination. They aren't better or worse then pugs in any other respect.

Let's look at the lrms 20 in comparison to the other top tier weapon systems AC-20, ErLL, ErPPC in relation to your suggestion of close range weapon support 200-350 meters.

Which one of these even with small support weapons would you not want. Which top teir weapon has the most counters and on avg deals the least damage?

Which one requires the support of another mech?

[Lyoto Machida]

pbiggz, on 18 November 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

There is a reason you see almost no lrms in competitive matches.

I doubt he plays in any competitive matches...this is his 2nd week in the game, remember? See below...

As an aside...how many LRMs did you guys see during the launch event? LRMs haven't changed THAT much in that time (if at all) so it should be a good indication of what "organized" teams were doing.

For the guys that run 12 mans...how often do you see LRMs?

Metalsand, on 14 November 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

I started a week ago, and in all matches, 400 is the average amount of damage done. 4SP only has two hardpoints for missiles. And of course they would want to, you can make missile boats of 80 firepower, meanwhile the best non-missile alpha you can get is around 50, and sustained is only about 4.5 in that case unless you are using a ballistics build.

You keep on overreacting and going "NO YOU ******* DONT TAKE MY LRMS AWAY OR NERF THEM WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU" and I just keep on saying they need to be CHANGED so that they have a proper role in gameplay. As it stands, it depends on whether or not the enemy team actually has team players to decide whether or not LRMs are OP or useless.

[Metalsand]

xMEPHISTOx, on 18 November 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

No...a screenshot that doesn't show what mech your in or the loadout proves absolutely nothing. Video or at the very the least the after action screen is what would be considered evidence that may validate your claim.
And no I do not support LRM's (think there fine where there at not OP or UP) but I do support evidence based on more than hearsay.



Below are examples of proper video/image evidence...





However one who is trying to prove or disprove something should really use video evidence as even the after action screen shot is not sufficient as who is to say what loadout I really had on that 733P.

I'm sorry, not everyone has a 100 TB harddrive where they can record every second of their gameplay footage with. Some people, surprisingly, just play for fun. Imagine that!

[xMEPHISTOx]

Metalsand, on 18 November 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

I'm sorry, not everyone has a 100 TB harddrive where they can record every second of their gameplay footage with. Some people, surprisingly, just play for fun. Imagine that!

uuuhhhhh...neither do I.
I use YouTube for not only publication but for storage as well.
It makes points easier to make and validate when using video for evidence and is free to boot, highly recommend making a YouTube account and download Open Broadcaster for recording.

[Otto Cannon]

Kilrein, on 18 November 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

And for confirming why I rarely post as I love people that add words to my post such as 'sniper weapons' because I'm sure confused as to where I said that?

You didn't say that. I said that. I never attributed it to you.

Kilrein, on 18 November 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

Please point out where I said that 'screen shake is the worst thing'? Oh wait, that's because I DIDN'T. Reading Is Fundamental but hey, why bothering reading when you can just fire off a quick 'you're wrong' response without actually taking the time to read a couple of sentences?

You sure gave that impression, your memory or ability to read your own post has failed you:

Kilrein, on 17 November 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

It's not the damage that is problem. It's the paralysis in movement options once they start connecting, with the combination of cockpit flare and screen shake, moving in the right direction is nearly impossible.

It's the continuous damage of them that is frustrating, the fire and forget, visual affects when getting hit by them and the screen shake.

Rarely do I die from LRMs, but once I get locked up, the odds of my death from other fire goes up dramatically.

See what I mean?

[Wolfways]

xMEPHISTOx, on 18 November 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

No...a screenshot that doesn't show what mech your in or the loadout proves absolutely nothing. Video or at the very the least the after action screen is what would be considered evidence that may validate your claim.
And no I do not support LRM's (think there fine where there at not OP or UP) but I do support evidence based on more than hearsay.



Below are examples of proper video/image evidence...





However one who is trying to prove or disprove something should really use video evidence as even the after action screen shot is not sufficient as who is to say what loadout I really had on that 733P.

Okay i'm confused.
You say you don't think LRM's are UP then post a video showing they are...
Which is it?

[ApolloKaras]

Wolfways, on 19 November 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Okay i'm confused.
You say you don't think LRM's are UP then post a video showing they are...
Which is it?

Clearly you didnt watch the full vid. Also note how he is using LRM's to supplement his firepower, hes not running PURE LURM. Also his discipline is good, he keeps distance etc. The video is not how good LRM's are, if you look at the last match on Alpine the damage numbers weren't so high.

Edited by Saxie, 19 November 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[Wolfways]

Saxie, on 19 November 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Clearly you didnt watch the full vid. Also note how he is using LRM's to supplement his firepower, hes not running PURE LURM. Also his discipline is good, he keeps distance etc. The video is not how good LRM's, if you look at the last match on Alpine the damage numbers weren't so high.

I did watch it all.
I see LRM's being used on the only two "open" maps, loads of missiles hitting the ground when lock is lost, and not being able to return fire when fired upon.
LRM's can be OP when used indirect (if your teammates keep locks) but are useless as direct fire weapons.

[Koniving]

LRMs and overpowered, eh?



Only when boating.

Look at the cost of boating.





Though if anything were to change... I'd like to double their damage, but cut their firing times in half. Sadly that'd only further encourage boating but damn it would reduce the spam.

[Roadbeer]

Koniving, on 19 November 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Though if anything were to change... I'd like to double their damage, but cut their firing times in half. Sadly that'd only further encourage boating but damn it would reduce the spam.

So would Rearm costs. I know I said it elsewhere, the week that ARTEMIS came out, I was in one drop where I earned 150k, got back into mechlab and R&R cost me 160K. Immediately dropped 2 tons of ammo off my catapult and installed MLAS.

[Mystere]

Kilrein, on 17 November 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

It's not the damage that is problem. It's the paralysis in movement options once they start connecting, with the combination of cockpit flare and screen shake, moving in the right direction is nearly impossible.

Say hello to suppressive fire, formerly called "neutralisation" by the British Colonial Forces.

Kilrein, on 17 November 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

Rarely do I die from LRMs, but once I get locked up, the odds of my death from other fire goes up dramatically.

Say hello to NATO's definition of "fire support"

“the application of fire, coordinated with the manoeuvre of forces, to destroy, neutralize or suppress the enemy.”

Don't you love it when you learn a new thing or two every day?

[xMEPHISTOx]

Wolfways, on 19 November 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Okay i'm confused.
You say you don't think LRM's are UP then post a video showing they are...
Which is it?

lol, your view on LRMs amuses me...always have, but you are at least consistent with your view points. As it is pointless to argue the matter w/you I simply will not. You obviously do not get it.

Saxie, on 19 November 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Clearly you didnt watch the full vid. Also note how he is using LRM's to supplement his firepower, hes not running PURE LURM. Also his discipline is good, he keeps distance etc. The video is not how good LRM's are, if you look at the last match on Alpine the damage numbers weren't so high.

Exactly.

Roadbeer, on 19 November 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

So would Rearm costs. I know I said it elsewhere, the week that ARTEMIS came out, I was in one drop where I earned 150k, got back into mechlab and R&R cost me 160K. Immediately dropped 2 tons of ammo off my catapult and installed MLAS.

^^^True...when rearm/repair was in effect long ago the cost of LRMs were through the roof and made one really think about just shooting like there was an endless supply available. But PGI removed that feature as the QQ was immense as always is when not made to appease ezmoders.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 19 November 2013 - 12:04 PM.

[Varik Ronain]

I am new to the game and use the catapult a1 and the k2 cat. I enjoy them both but I find myself using the chainfired LRM5 the most when using the A1. I am also a drop alone/pugger and even then I still enjoy using my a1 a whole lot. You have to play the game differently, paying constant attention to your position and that of your teammates and learning the maps has helped me out a lot. I tend to stay close to the assault mechs and focus on whatever is trying to engage them and tend to survive a longer that way. going all out lone wolf is suicide as it takes just 1 light mech to ruin your day.

I like using the LRM, I dont like having to use the 6xLRM5 to be effective. I feel like I am a support mech for the brawlers. Sure I may only do 300-500 damage a match but I know I am helping my teammates because I am always aware of what is going on and actively positioning myself to be effective in area denial.

If you do make the mistake and buy the a1 cat like I did and go the LRM5 spam rout you can expect a lot of attention to be directed at you.... people dont like a steady stream of DPS on them but they hate... loath the almost constant cockpit shake it does.

I do not feel like the LRM is OP, I do think they need to be re-worked and this is just the opinion of one of the newer less experenced players.

[Wolfways]

xMEPHISTOx, on 19 November 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

lol, your view on LRMs amuses me...always have, but you are at least consistent with your view points. As it is pointless to argue the matter w/you I simply will not. You obviously do not get it.

So explain to me what i don't get?
I don't want LRM's to be OP, just better in direct fire and worse in indirect fire.

[arghmace]

I play 12v12 battles 3 days a week. Never see any LRM's at all. That speaks volumes of the fact that they are still too weak.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Wolfways, on 19 November 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

I don't want LRM's to be OP.

That being the case nothing to argue about then.

Wolfways, on 18 September 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

No, they are not a support weapon.


I was going to say at least they nearly doubled the damage to compensate for the damage spreading across the target, but then i checked Smurfy's...

1.1 damage/missile? When the hell did this happen? Last time i checked it was 1.8!

No wonder LRM's are pathetic

But going by this older post of yours I would say there is much I disagree with ie. I do see them as support weapon, I do not think there damage should be doubled and I do not feel they are pathetic.

We disagree on many points in relation to LRM's, and see no point in arguing about it as we simply have opposing opinions as to what they should be and are presently.

[Wolfways]

xMEPHISTOx, on 19 November 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

We disagree on many points in relation to LRM's, and see no point in arguing about it as we simply have opposing opinions as to what they should be and are presently.

Fair enough.

[Ngamok]

LRMs are OP if no one comes to find you. If you are allowed to keep shooting at other emchs out in the open on a field, GG. The moment someone comes for you and you don't have enough back ups to defend yourself, GG. As i said before, people with ACs and PPCs will kill you faster than you kill them if both of you are out in the open and shooting at each other with your respective weapons.