218 replies to this topic

[Atheus]

Henry Morgan, on 25 November 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

...

Sorry, going to pass on this one.

kamiko kross, on 25 November 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

You were doing so well up until that paragraph:(
Your opinion differs from mine, that is all. My opinions are neither weak, nor flimsy-just different to yours.
What you lambast me for, the people on your side of the fence are every bit as guilty-if not more so.
Why do you have to be this way over this issue?

It has nothing to do with the issue of VOIP, and everything to do with worthwhile discussion of a necessary feature. If you make a suggestion and find yourself swarmed by meaningless, uninformed, tinfoil hat wearing, or otherwise deluded responses which completely hijack your thread, you may start to see why it's important to weed out certain types of posts. How many times did Troutmonkey have to respond to someone in this thread to remind them that they can just mute someone if they're causing trouble? How many different posts tried to make the case that people are so juvenile the whole idea should be scrapped. Such a waste.

[Kilrein]

Am I in favor of PGI putting in-game voice comms in place over other more useful (but yet to be delivered) content? Nope.

BUT.....it absolutely needs to be there to allow those players who would like to communicate in real time with more than the people on the same TS server with them.

Amazing how many folks who say 'but you can already speak with others on TS'.......again that's great...for those who are on the same TS server and in the same channel. But what about those other players? Wouldn't it be great to communicate with them if you so desired? It's not required to use it and you can choose NOT to but why not have the option to communicate with your teammates in real time?

I SUCK as a typist and I do not type in chat as a) I'm slow, my spelling sucks and c) while that lovely chat window is open I'm not doing much else.

[Jon Gotham]

Atheus, on 25 November 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Sorry, going to pass on this one.


It has nothing to do with the issue of VOIP, and everything to do with worthwhile discussion of a necessary feature. If you make a suggestion and find yourself swarmed by meaningless, uninformed, tinfoil hat wearing, or otherwise deluded responses which completely hijack your thread, you may start to see why it's important to weed out certain types of posts. How many times did Troutmonkey have to respond to someone in this thread to remind them that they can just mute someone if they're causing trouble? How many different posts tried to make the case that people are so juvenile the whole idea should be scrapped. Such a waste.

Thanks for an answer but a shame you carry on with the aggressive dismissal of any point which does not align with yours.

Kilrein, on 25 November 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

Am I in favor of PGI putting in-game voice comms in place over other more useful (but yet to be delivered) content? Nope.

BUT.....it absolutely needs to be there to allow those players who would like to communicate in real time with more than the people on the same TS server with them.

Amazing how many folks who say 'but you can already speak with others on TS'.......again that's great...for those who are on the same TS server and in the same channel. But what about those other players? Wouldn't it be great to communicate with them if you so desired? It's not required to use it and you can choose NOT to but why not have the option to communicate with your teammates in real time?

I SUCK as a typist and I do not type in chat as a) I'm slow, my spelling sucks and c) while that lovely chat window is open I'm not doing much else.

It's because Kilrein, we are genuinely surprised some of these guys haven't spent 10 mins on the forum and found a nice unit to join (I've offered my unit at least twice), downloaded one of the many options available for free and made use of it. I found my unit in one pug game, 2 mins of text chat, 10 mins on their site and around 2 mins to get on their ts......game changed for me within 30 mins!
Instead, some of them are adamantly campaigning for some thing that will only really benefit people who are not in a unit and don't want to play in one but still want to benefit from coordinated group play (which is why people join units in the main...) I say that only because most people who desire to coordinate have already 3rd party comms as nearly everyone I know has to do this as the norm for every game we have ever played (EQ, WoT,WT,Defiance, WOW, Rift, GW2 and list goes on....).
As long as voip integration does not slow down development of more important features, like UI 2.0, CW, weight limits etc then ok. It also needs to not interfere with any 3rd party voip whatsoever and not affect MWO servers in any way shape or form.
I'm borderline playable right now with latency to the MWO servers and I shudder if any more load was put on their end...
I would be pretty resentful if my experience was spoiled because a few people refused to use 3rd party, got voip put in and it affected the server adversely. I would certainly want all my money back!

But if they did put it in successfully, how long till we get "hardly anyone uses voip" or "no one listens to me" or "so much abuse over voip-please help PGI" threads crop up?

In game voip could end up being a very sharp, double-edged sword if PGI were not careful.

[Henry Morgan]

Troutmonkey, on 25 November 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Don't you dare tell me that voice communication isn't a HUGE and main advantage of grouping. Playing a premade without VOIP is almost as bad as pugging. While you may be playing with a higher caliber player as a result of grouping, without the ability to effectively communicate with those people you're going to lose out on the valuable, real time information they could be feeding you. Most people won't even bother grouping without VOIP, because there really isn't much point.

Actually I will dare to.  Because, as has been pointed out numerous times, pre-mades get their advantage by _t_e_a_m_ _w_o_r_k_.  This comes from intangibles and actions those players choose to undertake before dropping into any match.  Voice is a tool they opt to use to help them succeed at that.  Voice is not going to turn PuG's into some magical land of milk and honey, where manna falls from heaven, peace on earth, and suddenly every PuG is on par with the pre-mades.  Attempting to lump a tool into something as a "huge advantage" while ignoring the obvious, doesn't really support the claim.  Pre-mades get ROFLstomped just like PuG's.  If it were such a "huge advantage" it wouldn't happen.  

Troutmonkey, on 25 November 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Call of Duty lobbies </p>
Enough said really. Teamwork and coordination isn't required in CoD at all. As I said before, I played Gears of War - another game very similar to MWO with no respawns - and found it extremely useful.

I will give you some sort of 'lobby' would make pre-match set up easier.  For the most part.  However, how long will that be?  You would have thought it was the end of the earth when people had to wait for (gasp) SIXTY WHOLE SECONDS for the Ready button.  How long do you think the general player base is going to wait in a lobby before dropping into a match?  

Troutmonkey, on 25 November 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

And stop trying to compare a match to match game with MMOs. In an MMO taking time to find a good group, band together, and then roll dungeons is par for the course. They are time consuming games and grouping up with TeamSpeak is perfectly fine in these cases, as you will often roll from instance to instance with just your group, and no one else.</p>

Games are games and people are people.  And who said my only experience with games and voice chat was not with match based games?  I've played a number and guess what?  The ones I've seen have the in-game voice chat generally ignored by the player base as a whole.  Because of the many reasons already stated in these threads.  The pre-mades all continue to migrate to third party applications to coordinate and control their environments with.  Which, goes back to the "huge advantage" with pre-mades not being voice chat, but team work.  

Troutmonkey, on 25 November 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

In MWO every game you are paired with up to 11 random team mates, all of which you must communicate with for a team to function well. You don't have the time to group up or join an outside VOIP client with these guys, nor do you have any easy option to group up for the next round (like Halo 3 does).</p>

The pre-mades seem to find the time.  Once again, pre-mades set up _b_e_f_o_r_e_ any match drop happens, not after.  If PuG'er can't take the time to find an open server and find a group, and take any action on their own, then that is not a voice clients fault.  

[3rdworld]

Pretty well every modern shooter has built in voip. It is mind blowing that it is not in MWO.

[Joseph Mallan]

Troutmonkey, on 25 November 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

Don't you dare tell me that voice communication isn't a HUGE and main advantage of grouping. Playing a premade without VOIP is almost as bad as pugging. While you may be playing with a higher caliber player as a result of grouping, without the ability to effectively communicate with those people you're going to lose out on the valuable, real time information they could be feeding you. Most people won't even bother grouping without VOIP, because there really isn't much point.

I will tell you as a Lawman I win 59% of my matches and as a PUG I win about the same(57%). So if Comms are sch a huge advantage, why am I winning as often in silence as I do on Comms?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 26 November 2013 - 07:31 AM.

[Henry Morgan]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 November 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

I will tell you as a Lawman I win 59% of my matches and as a PUG I win about the same(57%). So if Comms are sch a huge advantage, why  am I winning as often in silence as I do on Comms?

Sorry Joseph, but you're approaching the "uninformed" and "tinfoil hat wearing" realm for having a different opinion and experience.

[Atheus]

kamiko kross, on 26 November 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

Thanks for an answer but a shame you carry on with the aggressive dismissal of any point which does not align with yours.

Nothing to do with alignment. People are free to present contrary opinions, but if they don't meet a certain intellectual criteria, it's really not worth anyone's time. The guy who I didn't bother responding to was suggesting that PGI shouldn't develop VOIP unless they were prepared to buy people microphones. At what point do you just admit that certain people aren't worth listening to? Trolling is a fairly popular pass time in internet land, but for some it seems to have evolved into something different - not purely trying to completely derail a conversation onto an irrelevant tangent for the sake of entertainment, but taking on a sort of contrarian existence in forums, making up whatever garbage they think sounds close to plausible in order to frustrate an idea that they have decided for whatever irrational reason to oppose. There's no reason to put up with that sort of mindless noise.

Perhaps I'm being properly trolled right now, since I'm discussing what's worth discussing, rather than discussing VOIP.

[Roadbeer]

Ok, OP changed the poll to be less bad, so I was able to vote.

There isn't much here that hasn't been said... a thousand times... on both sides of the argument.

Personally I'm not opposed to it, hell, I might even use it, even though I already use TeamSpeak. Who knows, if it's good, cool. If not, it's no skin off my nose.

All the arguments have already been made addressing my concerns, as long as I have a global ignore that works for both chat AND VoIP, I'm all for it.

I just don't think that it's worth the diversion of resources at this time. There are many free to use alternatives out there already, so if it's a choice between more modes, maps, CW, etc, etc, etc. Don't waste the development time. When they get caught up on everything else, and it's just down to making more mechs and cockpit items, THEN feel free to work on a VoIP.

4,000^th post!

Edited by Roadbeer, 26 November 2013 - 09:12 AM.

[Troutmonkey]

Henry Morgan, on 26 November 2013 - 07:22 AM, said:

Actually I will dare to. Because, as has been pointed out numerous times, pre-mades get their advantage by _t_e_a_m_ _w_o_r_k_. This comes from intangibles and actions those players choose to undertake before dropping into any match. Voice is a tool they opt to use to help them succeed at that. Voice is not going to turn PuG's into some magical land of milk and honey, where manna falls from heaven, peace on earth, and suddenly every PuG is on par with the pre-mades.

Just two days ago I was invited to join Phoenix Dominion, and I did. I jumped on their TS server for a bit and played a game in a three man premade with a bunch of people I'd never met. It took around 5 minutes to get things organised. Things were going pretty sweet for us until the TS3 server crashed, and we all lost voice comms. At that moment, it was exactly like I was pugging again. I didn't know where they were, what they were doing, and if they needed help at all. This lasted one or two games before I had to finish for the day, but the result was pretty obvious.

Joseph Mallan, on 26 November 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

I will tell you as a Lawman I win 59% of my matches and as a PUG I win about the same(57%). So if Comms are sch a huge advantage, why am I winning as often in silence as I do on Comms?

Comms are still a huge advantage to you personally. While it may not increase the chance of you Team winning much (as your four man will generally be pitted against another, equally good premade, and four players can't always carry the other eight), it does mean that on average, you will live longer, and do more damage. Not all premades are created equal however, and I used to play with some friends who were relatively new to the game. I think they actually caused more trouble than they were worth, but it was fun.

Now I PuG nearly all of the time, and still win most of my games. I've obtained near phychic levels of battlefield awareness, but I still can't pass that info on to my 11 other team mates in a timely manner. VOIP would allow me to do that.

I'm not saying that PGI should drop everything and make it happen, but I do want it to be on the to do list, hopefully just after UI 2.0 and released as a part of CW with lobbies.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 26 November 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[anonymous161]

Yeah this game has needed it since it was activated. However the console games have used this for like a decade now if not more than that and you hardly hear anyone anymore, at least in the halo games, once in a great while you will get a team that actually actively communicates, but a lot of times even if they have a mic plugged in, they refuse to use it even if you are totally ripping their *** a new one they wont even respond.

It's a system that has great advantages, but you get a lot of trolls and people who are too lazy to use it.

This game needs it pretty bad, I try to text pretty quick and can but once in the middle of a battle I have to hope people are smart enough to look around and make sure no one is going too far into a line of enemies. Too often I see myself abandoned by the team.

[anonymous161]

Roadbeer, on 26 November 2013 - 09:11 AM, said:

Ok, OP changed the poll to be less bad, so I was able to vote.

There isn't much here that hasn't been said... a thousand times... on both sides of the argument.

Personally I'm not opposed to it, hell, I might even use it, even though I already use TeamSpeak. Who knows, if it's good, cool. If not, it's no skin off my nose.

All the arguments have already been made addressing my concerns, as long as I have a global ignore that works for both chat AND VoIP, I'm all for it.

I just don't think that it's worth the diversion of resources at this time. There are many free to use alternatives out there already, so if it's a choice between more modes, maps, CW, etc, etc, etc. Don't waste the development time. When they get caught up on everything else, and it's just down to making more mechs and cockpit items, THEN feel free to work on a VoIP.

4,000^th post!

What makes you think they will ever get caught up in anything in this game? They are well over a year late in just about everything they have ever promised, why are they incapable of putting voip on at all? Why was this not put in at launch of beta? Um every other damn game I have ever seen or played with online mode has it. Hell counter strike has had it for how long and how old is that engine?

No this is simply them being unable to handle making this game properly. This would be so much more fun if they actually made promises they could keep. Why else do you think people wont work for them? I have to assume there is a rather dark side to these devs if people are not wanting to work with them, they may say they are hiring but what if they are merely milking us for money and going out and gambling on the side after a few hours of staring at a screen blankly and then taking a nap? This is a harsh view on them I know but it's nothing that hasn't been said before.

The fact that voip still isn't available for everyone is shameful.

If they were to call me and say hey how would you like to work for our team? I'd laugh and hang up. Besides the fact that I have a job that pays better than they pay their people and way better benefits I know this for a fact try john deere as a welder mind you, but I dont see anyone wanting to work for a team that has failed to show a lot of competence.

[Roadbeer]

Didn't you uninstall a month ago?

[Atheus]

Joseph Mallan, on 26 November 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

I will tell you as a Lawman I win 59% of my matches and as a PUG I win about the same(57%). So if Comms are sch a huge advantage, why am I winning as often in silence as I do on Comms?

Two things:
1. Comms don't do you any good if all you do is chat about whatever's on your mind. Even if you are attempting to coordinate your team, it still isn't guaranteed to help unless you know what you're doing, and are good at communicating. It's a very powerful tool when used correctly. If your win percent is only 2% higher when you form a lance and use comms, either you aren't using them well, your strategy is bad, or you are teaming up with players who are incompatible or just plain bad.

2. You're comparing apples to oranges. The proposal isn't for comms just within your lance, it's comms with your entire team. Haven't you ever done scrambles where you get a pile of lances in one channel in TS then sync drop, then split up into channels based on where you land? In those matches, if I wind up with all 12 people on my team in TS vs. some pugs, even if a lance of the opposing team happen to be in TS, my win rate is 100%, even if our team's coordination is fairly lazy.

[Zakie Chan]

Only thing I would add is that the mute list is stored locally in a file and referenced at launch keeping the previously muted players ignored.

That way its very easy to keep the airways clear of griefers

[Fooooo]

All points pretty much been brought up.

Basically with all the mute stuff etc etc all you then need is an option in the options menu to disable "in-game voip".

Everyone is happy.


There basically cannot be any complaints to that, unless.......PGI decided to immediately drop everything and all work on voip. People would not like that....even me. (not that they would do that anyway, but its the only case I can think of with a logical argument behind it)

So yup, put in voip (properly, not half assed...so it includes most/all options already discussed in many threads), speedwise just do it in the normal PGI way. (sorry couldn't help myself)......basically, do UI2, CW, HSR fixes then release the clans & voip etc.

Edited by Fooooo, 04 December 2013 - 11:40 PM.

[Blackfire1]

We've been asking for it since Closed Beta. Sorry C3 is an overlay program. NOT ingame voip

[Mudhutwarrior]

Well one of the IGP guys was in match and said ingame voice is in the new version. The announcement confirms that.

No word on whether third party voip will be allowed but I cannot see how they will stop it.

All you guys fighting this tooth and nail lose. Sorry, its coming so no hard feelings but I suspect the complaint threads will be in the hundreds the day of implementation and the shoe will be on the other foot.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 December 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

Well one of the IGP guys was in match and said ingame voice is in the new version. The announcement confirms that.

No word on whether third party voip will be allowed but I cannot see how they will stop it.

All you guys fighting this tooth and nail lose. Sorry, its coming so no hard feelings but I suspect the complaint threads will be in the hundreds the day of implementation and the shoe will be on the other foot.

As not one who is "Fighting it" Its good to hear that VOiP is coming, I just reserve the right to see if those saying it won't help may be right.

Also, We won Yesterday without VOiP Mud. So maybe it isn't as big a deal. Heck We won and I handicapped the team by bringing out my Sara. I am really lousy in a Jenner!

[Joseph Mallan]

Troutmonkey, on 26 November 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Just two days ago I was invited to join Phoenix Dominion, and I did. I jumped on their TS server for a bit and played a game in a three man premade with a bunch of people I'd never met. It took around 5 minutes to get things organised. Things were going pretty sweet for us until the TS3 server crashed, and we all lost voice comms. At that moment, it was exactly like I was pugging again. I didn't know where they were, what they were doing, and if they needed help at all. This lasted one or two games before I had to finish for the day, but the result was pretty obvious.



Comms are still a huge advantage to you personally. While it may not increase the chance of you Team winning much (as your four man will generally be pitted against another, equally good premade, and four players can't always carry the other eight), it does mean that on average, you will live longer, and do more damage. Not all premades are created equal however, and I used to play with some friends who were relatively new to the game. I think they actually caused more trouble than they were worth, but it was fun.

Now I PuG nearly all of the time, and still win most of my games. I've obtained near phychic levels of battlefield awareness, but I still can't pass that info on to my 11 other team mates in a timely manner. VOIP would allow me to do that.

I'm not saying that PGI should drop everything and make it happen, but I do want it to be on the to do list, hopefully just after UI 2.0 and released as a part of CW with lobbies.

I can tell you from Hours of experimenting, Its not Comms that make or break my game. I can and do play just as well PUGging as I do PreMade. I PUGged for four hours Yesterday, I did it in a Kintaro (1st one for level grind) I scored more points in a PUG Medium than I have in weeks/Months of Pre Made in a D-DC.

VOiP would allow you to tell our team mates where the enemy is, that doesn't mean they owe you any loyalty or allegiance. I have rarely seen PUGs respond to text so I just see VOiP getting ignored quicker.