218 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

kamiko kross, on 06 December 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

Seriously low and smug post there sir?
As long as it does not interfere with what I already have in any way shape or form it's all good. As long as I am not forced or urged to use it all good:)
But I predict some serious crying when in game voipers realise that most people will be ignoring them. Most will have it turned off:) Or be using what they have already got set up....
And if it puts any more load on the servers expect an almighty ragestorm and some serious consequences:(

I've played many, many games with it-it was rarely-IF EVER used in any of them....but lets hope it works and is positive....

Ferret, voip is not the main reason why teams win/lose mate. Teams lose because they exhibit sheep-like herd behaviour, and think of themselves before the team. Peeps on things like TS leave their ego at the door and play with their friends to win-not randoms.
That's your "edge" right there. They will take a hit for a friend, push when they are supposed to and LISTEN to their friends asking/speaking.
Randoms most likely WILL NOT do this-even when being spoken to.

You do know that this contradicts itself right? You cannot have a herd behavior AND think of one's self.

But I do agree with you that many will cry out when VOiP does not in fact improve their game. I am still PUGging more than Teaming up, and frankly I don't see a difference in MY game play. I do see the enemy working together better than my team, but my personal performance is stable

They may also cry out cause of the Trolling that will inevitably ensue.

[Jon Gotham]

Aye upon reading that again I must clarify my point.
They think of themselves because they put their own survival chances as higher when they herd together, by doing this I think they feel indirectly they will live longer and do more damage.
Whereas a more team oriented player might go on that exposed flank, fight and indeed die but tie up multiple enemy long enough for the team to triumph.
Or they might push, get multiple enemy to turn and expose their backs or break their line allowing the more sheep-minded to shoot but die doing that push-turning what would have been a "get surrounded and murdered" situation into a winning one.
The self-interested herder would not do either of these things, they would probably sit in the herd hoping someone else does it for them so they can score more kills.

Aye Joseph, I think PGI will have to hire Gms or something-text abuse is one thing but voice griefing is another. There is a reason why every single game I have played with inbuilt voip is never used by the overwhelming majority...

But we'll see, I do HOPE it's done right and works. But PGI is involved so.....;P

[Oppresor]

I voted Yes because I can see a use for it, however I prefer to use the chatline. My only concern would be that it would be open to serious abuse and bullying; I don't just mean the odd F**king W**ker, I mean the serous stuff where people gang up on others.

[nrg9x]

Steam has its own VOIP setup and it was one of the tools that helped many gamers pick up the concept of team work , ppl will use it , and then others wont , set it up so if they dont want it they can block it , id use it if it became available. prolly star in a troll war . whatever entertains me lol

i voted yes , nothing wrong with extra features

[Dirus Nigh]

Rasc4l, on 13 November 2013 - 04:34 AM, said:

IMHO you're not. You're supposed to make a post in the forums indicating that you would like to join some people using voice. 2 flies with the same swat, you also increase the quality of the experience by being in a group.

So you demand people to get TS3 and stop crying about being alone in pugging so they can join a group. Yet you argue against MWO for having a built in voice chat that will help people create groups as they play the game? With a voice system intigrated with the game a player will meat other people as they play the game. If they wanted to group with them all they have to do is say "hay throw me a friend invite after the match, and we will group up". But you don't want that.

Quote

And do you honestly think you could just mute people from the scoreboard with a single click? Considering that for their first UI 2.0 test, PGI didn't manage to do the very basic thing all (excel and whatnot) mechlabs have been doing for tens of years, showing the mech and its components in one view, I don't think they would manage to make it so easy.

Yes it is that easy. If Battlefield 2 can have that exact method of muting some one over ten years ago, so can MWO today.

Quote

Bottom line: anyone interested in real voice communication have their own servers. Otherwise the channels will be filled by amateurs who use voice activation instead of push to talk.

This is just elitist snobbery. Also you get that on TS3 any way. I dont know how many times I've been in the sync room during Impy's twitch nights with people having an open mic playing musing, kids arguing or a wife talking loudly on the phone. It happens get over it.

Rasc4l, on 13 November 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

When I see these "Add voicecom!" threads, I just can't help thinking how centered it seems on anglo-american world view. I mean the people who when they're abroad, just use louder English and wonder why they are not being understood. Based on the front page, a Canadian company is making a game for Russians and Germans so that's what we would hear. So the "Speak english you gibberish talking xyz!" whine of the English-speaking part would be great.

Really, your going to start slinging racial stereotypes against Americans? Please stop acting like Euro trash, you can be better than that.

Quote

If they added voicecom, they would probably make it on by default like all the other silly choices like armlock, 3pv and hold to run. Boy would I troll that PUG-channel in Finnish. Yeah, it's this language:

Oh the suffering you will have to endure. The hardship of opening the option menu, then clicking a box to turn off a feature. I know your pain. I had to do the same thing with the default setting of ON for arm lock. I cried

Funny how you end that comment with admitting how you would troll other players. How you would use the very same behavior you are worried about ruining your game.

Rasc4l, on 13 November 2013 - 05:08 AM, said:

You could not be more right. But the amount of irrational behavior/language increases exponentially when it comes to children. All it would take is some worried mom from the biblebelt posting in some women's forum how she caught her kid playing this horrible adult game, where players curse. Little bit of bad press like that and PGI would fold like a pocket knife and remove the voicecom they worked hard on, because they can't afford to lose customers. Considering how dead the forums seem nowadays, I'm really wondering if they are still getting customers in or are they bleeding already. I'm sure the Phoenix money insertation did good but considering that the "exclusive" offer keeps on being sold, I think they're desperate. I hope I'm wrong, of course.

You say this as if it is a real thing. If this was such a certainty then Steam, COD, Battlefield, ANY MMO, would have been out of business years ago.

Levon K, on 13 November 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

Troutmonkey - how useful is VOIP going to be if half of your team has it turned off? Try giving commands to half your team..

Also, what happens when a teammate has you muted?

Then that individual has you muted. That is that persons choice. It in no way invalidates the need for integrated voice chat.

Quote

Not only that, how long is it going to take for everyone to say Hi and get used to each other when you're VOIPing randoms every match? Which voice is coming from which mech?

Less time than it would take for casual players on the NGNG, or NA Comstar TS3 server to do it. I would think it would take 1 minute, to a 1 1/2 minutes. That would be a 20 second wait for people to enter the game, mech start up sequence and the time it takes for a lance to get their barrings and decide on a direction to go. Pugs already do this with out voice coms. just think of how nice it would be with them.

Quote

I think if you want VOIP, use teamspeak.

It's not sorely needed. The only problem with pugging is randoms getting mixed with organized teams. They don't mix very well.

You really don't know what your saying here. Let me show you what it is you just said.

If you want team work get TS3, don't ask PGI to put in a system that will help. The problem is that pugs cannot talk to each other, and they are playing against people who can. So instead of giving every one the ability to talk to each other, we should separate groups, who are most likely using TS3, from individuals who cannot talk to each other. In other words segregate the player base.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 02 January 2014 - 12:24 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

*DISCLAIMER* None of the below is meant to offend anyone, ok?

Dirus, whilst I appreciate why you pounded that guy the way you did....you might have picked upon one of the people who put the counter point (if you can even call it that) in the most, off target way.

What a lot of the (counter voip-very wrong term to use there) are saying is:

Pro voip guys seem to have an attitude about using ts3 and the like. The idea of going on forums and such "seems" to be unacceptable to them. Several of the posters have posted snide and acerbic to this effect.
Those of us who do use ts3 and the like, in the beginning saw there was no voip and went "oh well" and promptly began forming communities, many of which have been very successful so far. Many people also created open ts servers out of their own pocket to help other people to communicate.
Now, I do realise that not everyone wants to go on forums and the such but getting me into my unit took all of 30 mins flat-thats from ready their forum, signing up to talking on TS. 30 MINUTES. ONCE.
Some of the pro voip guys hint at even this is unacceptable and they seem resistant towards that kind of "conforming."
But they do demand the ability to do near enough EXACTLY (I know they want per game hook ups) that 100% casually within game. they then get all bent out of shape when people point out that what they want is already in existence.....hurling accusations around about us "elitist snobs."

What current 3rd party people are confused about is the fact we sorted our own solution out without any drama or feet stamping, we did not expect or need built in voip. Whilst we thought it odd that none was included-we shrugged and moved on. Most of us do not want CW and the like to be delayed any further by spreading dev time (which is obviously limited to the extreme-see slipped deadlines list>.>) across things that are not really, utterly urgent right now. (most games with built in voip-it virtually never gets used, with rare exceptions)
A lot of pro voip tout it as the reason pugs lose, the reason blobs form etc well no it is not.

"I know best noob" is the reason.
"I want more kills" is the reason.
"I don't know what to do" is the reason.
"I am confused" is the reason.

Notice the "I" is in all of them?
Evil TS users win because they pull together, something with all the best will in the world is going to rarely happen in pugs. No other game I play with built voip gets used by it's respective playerbase. People don't want to constantly get inundated with new voices-they tend to want to get to know a select group of people-hence the rise of clans/guilds/units/corps and the like since online gaming took off.

Now unless PGI could do some serious magic with it, maybe having own channel creation options with optional external client etc it just won't be used by the majority. I'd bet that most casual players simply do not want to hear random peeps blabbering on whilst they try to play and relax.
So in short to sum it up:
The people countering the voip lobby-do not want to NOT see it, but they are merely countering the attitude of "some" of the pro voip lobby-a seemingly illogical aversion to using something that already exists, they want all the benefits that TS users currently enjoy but without the prolonged "commitment" of a unit whilst playing. (why ever not?!!!)

I did not mean to cause any offence to anyone with this post, and it was not aimed at you specifically Dirus but I wanted to call it how I see it.

Edited by kamiko kross, 02 January 2014 - 10:33 AM.

[Troutmonkey]

Current implementation - No VOIP
Premades have communication advantage over others with VOIP, however are unable to communicate with the rest of their team including other premades using VOIP.
Grouping up and using VOIP either requires being part of an established group, or inviting randoms to join you (unlikely).
If you manage to convince someone to join you you will have to agree on the method of VOIP (TS3, Ventrillo, Skype, Steamchat), and the server to join. This process usually takes about the same amount of time as an entire game.
Sometimes you have other commitments and only have time for a few games. You do not want to waste this time, but you still want some semblance of communication when you play. Sometimes your group just has nobody online, and this even happens with larger groups. TS

Suggestion - Add VOIP
Groups who want to play with TS3 still can. Go for your life.
People who don't like hearing other people can still mute everyone else
People who abuse the system will be muted (and hopefully we can get some kind of report button)
Everyone else will use the system for good, and overall will have a better player experience because of it.

Counter Strike and Team Fortress, some of the biggest and most popular online shooters have VOIP, and overall it can greatly add to the user experience. This is because systems (like the mute button) limit the negative impact it can have on players.

I truly understand that the developers time is limited, but I truly believe that VOIP should be an integral part of community warfare.

[Jon Gotham]

Finally! Well done Trout!
Sadly I still feel those of us who are using 3rd party comms will end up having to run both. We might need to communicate with team in a pug say, when there are 4 of us. Currently we use text chat.
If voip made it I daresay most will continue to ignore text chat and expect everyone to use built in voip. So if it does take off all of us who invested in TS serves etc will be in the cold. We'll be forced to use it-NOT a good situation.

For example:
Last night me and two buddies were playing ME3 multiplayer. We always had one random pugger, who using the built in voip basically kept interrupting our private convo whilst we were playing. We had to keep badgering them over voip to come back to the lz etc or to get them to cover a flank etc-most disrupting when you hear your own voice twice constantly and theirs talking at same time.
Basically it disrupts our own private discussion. We DO NOT want to have our private convos over PUBLIC channels.

Now my suggestion for PGI is......
Build a client kinda like TS that runs inside the actual game. Have it so we can create our own channels so we can talk privately during matches etc and during the mechlab.
Then have several key modifiers like:
1:to talk to pug team
2: to talk to lance
3: to talk to unit (out side of current match)
BUT have the option to disable ALL incoming chatter from team AND lance.

Then have this as a standalone client that runs in parallel with the game so we can socialise with our unit even when we are not playing-because surprise surprise thats what a lot of units do. We play other games yet still want to talk to each other, community building and all that eh?
I say this because I really feel that those of us who have sorted ourselves out should not be penalised in any way, shape or form and that danger IS there. ME3 is my prime example. I turned "force voip" OFF yet I STILL get to hear johnny random, and his cat/wife/kids/tv/neighbours etc.
I am NOT AMUSED.


But do bear in mind Trout that the benefits are only in your personal experience, mine (and everyone else I know that plays online games....) for example since all the way back to EQ1 have been nothing but negative. There is a reason it's generally NOT used in the majority of games its present in.
If you want the mechwarrior experience to truly change for the better, you will have to change the mentality behind the playerbase. right now, each game is like two herds of sheep crashing together and I really don't feel voip will change that.
Once "me" "mine" and "I" vanish and get replaced by "us" "we" and "team" it just might:)

But I say this now, please don't be despondent when the vast majority don't use it -or just flat out ignore it. Because they WILL, unless as in ME3 we are forced to-then.....
Of course there is no reason (as long as it does not affect CW etc) to not have it-it just needs to be implemented RIGHT.

[XphR]

Sadly its easy to say that about any player base.. people ruining things for people in new and unnecessary ways. Just wait until they have to have PGI audio political correctness video updates as a mandatory view on start up.

[Troutmonkey]

If they implemented a party system like Xbox Live that would solve many problems.

Each player will have an icon next to their name. They would have either a party icon, to show they are grouped; a speaker icon, to show they have a mic attached (which will change colour when the user speaks); a mute icon, to show they have been muted, or no icon to show they have no mic attached. Hovering over a players name would advertise who that player is partied with. This means there will be no confusion as to why someone fails to respond to you.

When people in a private party talk, only members of their party can hear them. You can talk to party members even if you are not in the same match. When anyone not in a party talks it can be heard by everyone, except by people who have muted them. Players in private party talk can swap public chat, and their icon will change to represent that.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 04 January 2014 - 05:03 PM.

[Jon Gotham]

Would that kind of thing also work back in the lab?
Because as I have said before, those of who have taken the initiative to get sorted out.don't really want to have to run TS AND in game voip. Most of us still log on to TS even when we are playing other games, surfing the web etc. We don't really want to have to log into MWO to use the chat there to talk to our unit.....
Or do you think you could have unit channel and lance channel on that xbox-a-like thingy? But then if that, we are back to running TS and voip....because of the above reason....
I also really do feel that it really won't help all that much, most of us "ts users" will have it muted permanently. Most of the rest will have it muted or simply ignore you!
Looking at the situation in a perverse way, it could actually hampen ts users competitiveness simply because 2/3 of the team "could" be using the voip and they would be the isolated 4. Thus punishing them for taking the initiative and making them run in game and things like ts -seriously hurting the social aspects of units/clans, and after most MMO games are DESIGNED for unit/clans/guilds in mind-NOT solo casuals. (that point was for devil's advocacy there-ok?)

I would still love a co-designed client that is attached to MWO, that uses the in game channels that you outlined but can be used without having to load up MWO. Because if PGI did it the wrong way, catering to puggers could really screw up units/clans and I DON'T mean our "advantage." See my ME3 example there, that system REALLY is annoying.
And that, is utterly unacceptable.

Perhaps someone should pop a thread up in feature suggestions about it-not just scream for voip nao, but rather some thing a bit more eloquent and try to get it implemented properly-first time round?
What they could do ASAP is at least put a text chat feature in the mechlab, with things like a general channel, LFL channel etc...

[Mudhutwarrior]

I just enjoy these guys who think it shows initiative to install a 3rd party client and join some group.

Just know this. Some of us think this is just a game. We don't want to troll for teammates or groups to join we just want to drop and play.
We don' t want to study lore, Don't care what fantasy year it is. Could care less about factions, clans or any other silliness.
We don't buy MWO t-shirts or coffee mugs and don't fantasize about going to comic con in our star trek uniforms.

Just want to have a good game when we log on. The ability to organize the drop and communicate without having to stop in a firefight to type is a plus. We are the Pug, Noobs and Casuals.

We don't want to be like you. Not everyone is the same. We have a right to say it and a right to play it. Our money is green too.

So PGI, make decision, You can rely on these guys for all your income or you can make it a decent play for the rest and make more.

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 05 January 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

I just enjoy these guys who think it shows initiative to install a 3rd party client and join some group.

as opposed to the guys who think it takes initiative to "be a rebel" and refuse to use any options that some of us choose to use because PGI hasn't put in a voip mechanism yet. Even though all they talk about is how voip would improve the game?

[Mudhutwarrior]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

as opposed to the guys who think it takes initiative to "be a rebel" and refuse to use any options that some of us choose to use because PGI hasn't put in a voip mechanism yet. Even though all they talk about is how voip would improve the game?

Rebels change the world..

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 05 January 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

Rebels change the world..

You'd almost be likeable and credible if you'd stop playing the "woe as me" victim card. I've told you this before. You don't even stop to acknowledge that all those "evil" and "elitist snobs who want to keep their advantage" agree on the whole in-game voip being sorely needed. You're to busy martyring yourself and trying to get new players to listen to your rhetoric about how they can't win unless they use TS which is just a load of {Scrap}.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

You'd almost be likeable and credible if you'd stop playing the "woe as me" victim card. I've told you this before. You don't even stop to acknowledge that all those "evil" and "elitist snobs who want to keep their advantage" agree on the whole in-game voip being sorely needed. You're to busy martyring yourself and trying to get new players to listen to your rhetoric about how they can't win unless they use TS which is just a load of {Scrap}.

Not about winning, you just cant get past that. Its about teamwork. Not a premade 4 or 8 and fill. 12 men working together, premades and pugs. You know unity.

Your the guys who want to keep it divided.

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 05 January 2014 - 07:50 PM, said:

Not about winning, you just cant get past that. Its about teamwork. Not a premade 4 or 8 and fill. 12 men working together, premades and pugs. You know unity.

Your the guys who want to keep it divided.

explain to me how "us guys" me in particular want to keep it "divided" please enlighten me

[Mudhutwarrior]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

explain to me how "us guys" me in particular want to keep it "divided" please enlighten me

For someone like you it cannot be explained so I wont bother. For the rational its obvious.

You work overtime here to divide, punish anyone thinking outside the box and its great public knowledge now. No point in discussing it with you or your cohorts. Just as you say I have posted about it time and again you yourself have been on a mission to censor or derail these threads time and again.

Just anyone look around the forum and see how many threads have been derailed or attempted to be by you.

end of discussion.

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 January 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

For someone like you it cannot be explained so I wont bother. For the rational its obvious.

You work overtime here to divide, punish anyone thinking outside the box and its great public knowledge now. No point in discussing it with you or your cohorts. Just as you say I have posted about it time and again you yourself have been on a mission to censor or derail these threads time and again.

Just anyone look around the forum and see how many threads have been derailed or attempted to be by you.

end of discussion.

yup I expected about as much. You can't because it's simply not true. You have nothing but "you're a premade troll and you ruin the game by using TS"
Be productive man, actually use your voice to try and help the community. Stop looking for scapegoats and learn to hold a relevant and intelligent conversation.

For those that DO care...

In-game voip i sorely needed and has been since CB. We don't have that so many in the community have taken it upon themselves to setup TS servers to help give that options to players. I would highly recommend you check it out. It can make a huge difference in your game play and enjoyment.
It's also a great resource to get information, tips, advice, etc. on everything from mech builds to map strategies.

[Jon Gotham]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 January 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

For someone like you it cannot be explained so I wont bother. For the rational its obvious.

You work overtime here to divide, punish anyone thinking outside the box and its great public knowledge now. No point in discussing it with you or your cohorts. Just as you say I have posted about it time and again you yourself have been on a mission to censor or derail these threads time and again.

Just anyone look around the forum and see how many threads have been derailed or attempted to be by you.

end of discussion.

You are an astoundingly arrogant and blindfolded individual. Blinkers fully on!
You only want thing YOUR way and no other quarter given, from what you have said is cater to casuals or get lost basically.
What many of us have suggested is cater to everyone and profit.
I suggested PGI do their own client that COULD (read an optional client that uses in game tech) be used outside of MWO so clans/units could still socialise together, what's wrong with that?

Your diatribe consisted of a casual manifesto of "we just wanna log on" ok, fantastic! If that's what you want to do then great for you! BUT, YOUR wants and desires should NEVER, EVER take priority over anyone else's needs or wants.
As I stated before and with simplicity I may add, many of the people seemingly arguing against it (which we are not) were in fact challenging the extremely poor attitude on display towards those who use TS and the like.


Not about winning, you just cant get past that. Its about teamwork. Not a premade 4 or 8 and fill. 12 men working together, premades and pugs. You know unity.

Your the guys who want to keep it divided.


Actually, my concerns are about more than just 12 men in ONE match-it's about whole groups of people who potentially can have their way of coming together horribly affected by poor implementation of voip. Have their experience spoiled...potentially. This whole issue is about more than YOU, and your wants-it's about putting something important in place, CORRECTLY.
If PGI are going to do this, it needs to be done right-no one group should have more rights than the other. Yes, that does mean YOU.

Edited by kamiko kross, 06 January 2014 - 10:43 AM.