218 replies to this topic

[Mudhutwarrior]

kamiko kross, on 06 January 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

Not about winning, you just cant get past that. Its about teamwork. Not a premade 4 or 8 and fill. 12 men working together, premades and pugs. You know unity.

Your the guys who want to keep it divided.


Actually, my concerns are about more than just 12 men in ONE match-it's about whole groups of people who potentially can have their way of coming together horribly affected by poor implementation of voip. Have their experience spoiled...potentially. This whole issue is about more than YOU, and your wants-it's about putting something important in place, CORRECTLY.
If PGI are going to do this, it needs to be done right-no one group should have more rights than the other. Yes, that does mean YOU.

How would ingame voice horribly affect anyone? Is it worries about the NSA?

Sorry just no idea how it could possibly be affected even with your twisted imagination.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Sandpit, on 06 January 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

yup I expected about as much. You can't because it's simply not true. You have nothing but "you're a premade troll and you ruin the game by using TS"
Be productive man, actually use your voice to try and help the community. Stop looking for scapegoats and learn to hold a relevant and intelligent conversation.

For those that DO care...

In-game voip i sorely needed and has been since CB. We don't have that so many in the community have taken it upon themselves to setup TS servers to help give that options to players. I would highly recommend you check it out. It can make a huge difference in your game play and enjoyment.
It's also a great resource to get information, tips, advice, etc. on everything from mech builds to map strategies.

For you forum policeman.... http://www.tsa.gov/careers

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 January 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

end of discussion.

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 January 2014 - 11:09 AM, said:

For you forum policeman.... http://www.tsa.gov/careers

would you make up your mind or at least post something relevant to the topic?

[Jon Gotham]

I think it's abundantly clear.
It's either EXACTLY what HE wants or it's nothing. I have a twisted imagination apparently.
MHW, if you had read my post where I explained what the voip in ME3 is like....you'd know where I was coming from. In that, our private conversations are constantly gatecrashed by joe random. This is very distracting and very annoying.
Now imagine your unit has around 10 peeps on. You are all talking and having a laugh, but poor voip implementation allows you in game to be spoken at by your whole team, it puts you in a "lobby" with just that 12 man. You now have to listen to your ten peeps on Ts AND deal with 12 randoms all talking at the same time.
Options are turn TS off and basically shut down the social aspect of your clan/unit OR
turn voip off and not "benefit" fro it's use, thus gimping you.
Obviously those of us who have taken the time to get communities off the ground (FWLM being the biggest I can name) would be rather damaged by those options, as yes you can group on the fly-catering nicely to those who don't want to go any deeper than log on and shoot but it would make the socialising of our present communities rather more awkward.
Which, by the way is not acceptable AT ALL. (HINT:CW will thrive on these "premades")

What I have suggested TWICE now is for:

A built in system that has an optional stand alone client. So units/clans can chat outside of the game if they wish-and guess what us evil permades do that. We want MORE than just a per game hook up-we want to make friends, and foster groups/communities. We achieve this through communication. Something bad implementation of voip could scupper.

So I would ask that PGI create:
Team chat
Lance chat
Unit/Clan chat-with this particular channel being usable from the stand alone client, so we would not have to load up MWO to chat to our mates if we are just browsing the web or playing another game etc.
*also* DO NOT allow voice chat between the 2 teams-this would prevent a lot of trouble trust me...

Because other wise, those of us who do want more than "just log on" won't be penalised for other's low horizons.

Surely you can see the logic of that? Clans/guilds/units/corps etc ARE THE LIFEBLOOD, the basic building block of online games' communities, this game will not succeed off the backs of solo casuals.
Rage, scream and cry all you like. Insult. deride and abuse all you like-but this feature needs to be done right so no one group gets penalised and everyone benefits.
Surely, you'd agree on that?

[Mudhutwarrior]

Somehow I have faith they will figure it out and I don't think one games issue in the context of all the games with voip is any reason to fear its inclusion. But +1 for the Attempt.

Sandpit, on 06 January 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

would you make up your mind or at least post something relevant to the topic?

I did.

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 January 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Somehow I have faith they will figure it out and I don't think one games issue in the context of all the games with voip is any reason to fear its inclusion. But +1 for the Attempt.



I did.

Ok mud, seriously. Why do you think some players are trying to "divide" players?

I am honestly curious. I am interested because I guarantee you that's not the intent of 90% of the people you're accusing of doing so. So what makes you think, believe, or otherwise speak out that they are? Is it something we/I/they have said?

I've said NUMEROUS times in-game voip is sorely needed and HAVE said such since I joined the game in CB. So I'm honestly trying to understand why and how you believe otherwise.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I think if you look through many threads here I am far from alone in thinking that many want to keep things as they are with pugs,noobs and casuals. I also think you and a few others go out of your way to hammer those people. How does it go?
Something along the line of Your glad someone has the nerve to post about this?

Not just a few occasions either.

We all here have a right to our opinions yourself included but you will find I don't post against you on your every thread. Why is that?

You feign to want to help out new players but anyone who reads this forums regularly probably sees it different.

Fact is when I came here I had no animosity to premades and got my friends to join to become one ourselves. Out of 12 only 1 comes back and rarely. He gets stomped over and over and doesn't want to bother with it. All of them left for the same reason with the grind secondary. Thing is when you get trashed in less then 2 minutes in a 12/0 stomp over and over its pretty easy to not want to play anymore. Yeah, I stuck it out and over a year I got pretty decent pug only but still the coordinated premades roll over my teams pretty often. You ignore this experience at your peril and over that same year I have seen you go after anyone else raising similar concerns. By now I don't believe a word you say.

I just see no point in going further with this. I will leave it up to Karma. From what I have seen written outside this forum lately it seems Karma is doing as expected. Maybe some egos will deflate enough for this game to recover but I ain't betting on it yet.

[ShinVector]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 January 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

How would ingame voice horribly affect anyone? Is it worries about the NSA?

Sorry just no idea how it could possibly be affected even with your twisted imagination.

If your kid the was one playing this game, would like people cursing and swearing at them ?
We see it often enough in text, the voice version would be worst.

This things will happen... Possibly one the reason why PGI doesn't want to put in-game VoIP is so, they don't have to spend resources to police and manage it.

--

Hmmm.. Funny though.. Even if they implement ingame voip..
Next thread with be Ingame VoIP vs TS3 VoIP - TS3 VoIP wins.

Edited by ShinVector, 06 January 2014 - 08:10 PM.

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 January 2014 - 07:22 PM, said:

You feign to want to help out new players but anyone who reads this forums regularly probably sees it different.

this is why you commonly get disregarded. You have yet to show me any kind of example where I've done as such.....

[ardan sortek]

First time I've posted here, so bear with me if I've missed something and am repeating an idea. I've been glancing through the opinions/thoughts of in game VoIP and have come up with the following idea.

1. Each lance has a 'lance commander'
2. All lancemates can voice to each other, not to the whole company.
3. 'Lance commanders' can only communicate with other 'lance commanders' and their own lancemates.

This would potentally cut down on the 'overwhelming chatter' that may occur when 12 people are all shoutiing at once. While still being able to coordinate an effective strategy.

Of course there's still downsides, you may have a dud lance commander. Lancemates may not follow 'orders'. etc....

But this would still be good idea in my mind.

Cheers.

[Sandpit]

ardan sortek, on 06 January 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:

First time I've posted here, so bear with me if I've missed something and am repeating an idea. I've been glancing through the opinions/thoughts of in game VoIP and have come up with the following idea.

1. Each lance has a 'lance commander'
2. All lancemates can voice to each other, not to the whole company.
3. 'Lance commanders' can only communicate with other 'lance commanders' and their own lancemates.

This would potentally cut down on the 'overwhelming chatter' that may occur when 12 people are all shoutiing at once. While still being able to coordinate an effective strategy.

Of course there's still downsides, you may have a dud lance commander. Lancemates may not follow 'orders'. etc....

But this would still be good idea in my mind.

Cheers.

that's similar to how BF works their VOIP. I'd rather have a full 12 man voip with the option to mute

[Corvus Antaka]

hilarious to hear people arguing against ingame VOIP.

it's like their stuck in the 20th century.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Sandpit, on 06 January 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

this is why you commonly get disregarded. You have yet to show me any kind of example where I've done as such.....

I did in that post and you know it. You come back to me on the level and I will do the same. Its pretty sad because your ideas on other threads I read and agree with. I probably could learn a lot from you if there wasn't such animosity between us. I am pretty knew to gaming and have a lot to learn but that doesn't mean my perspectives are not valid. On the contrary if you want to increase population here things I have suggested could help. Overall there is a bunker mentality to counter. On the nerf threads I can see it but on ideas like these I cannot.

[Sandpit]

Mudhutwarrior, on 07 January 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

I did in that post and you know it. You come back to me on the level and I will do the same. Its pretty sad because your ideas on other threads I read and agree with. I probably could learn a lot from you if there wasn't such animosity between us. I am pretty knew to gaming and have a lot to learn but that doesn't mean my perspectives are not valid. On the contrary if you want to increase population here things I have suggested could help. Overall there is a bunker mentality to counter. On the nerf threads I can see it but on ideas like these I cannot.

I don't know where you get the whole "lets not help new players" "lets divide the player base" or "lets not integrate voip" ideas from.
I've written several guides to help new players that are actually still in use on other websites for units and such. I'm a firm beliver that the new player experience is horrid on here in MANY ways. Integrated voip being one of the largest issues and has been since CB.
There is absolutely no reason for a multi-million dollar gaming company to push out a AAA MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game without a simple thing like lobbies and voip.
Then you drop these new players in with veteran players and they do get stomped and lose interest. This is bad. This is bad for new players, old players, and PGI because it stagnates and eventually dwindles the entire player base.
Now with THAT said. The reason I argue against the "premade touched me" arguments (see? a little levity there ) is because premades are not at the heart of the issue.

At the heart of the issue is new players getting dropped into a game with an EXTREMELY steep learning curve with little ot no information on how key mechanics and systems work within the game and then face off against players who, in some cases, have decades of experience with the systems or at least what THIS game's systems are based on.
That's a huge advantage but it in no way has anything to do with premades vs. pugs. it's a new player vs. vets issue.
Nerfing or eliminating or separating the queues for premades isn't going to solve that. you'll still have the exact same scenarios played out because you STILL have veterans dropping as PUGs that leads to those stomps.

Now don't get me wrong, voip IS an advantage, it is NOT a huge one or a "for sure thing" when it comes to winning or losing. When you jump up and down and wail against premades and things like TS (even though it's less than a perfect system having to use a 3rd party software) you really turn new players who listen to that away from a tool that could REALLY help them get integrated into the game and learn at a much faster pace. That does a LOT more harm than good.

EVERY SINGLE thread that discusses in-game integrated voip, I'm one of the first ones to jump up and down and let PGI know that I STILL (since day 1) find it inexcusable that they have not included this feature. But, that's the reality of the situation. We don't have it, but there are other options that the community has taken it upon themselves to help fill that void.

There's nothing to counter here because I have the exact same stance. I want and think the game desperately needs voip but until that comes there are alternatives that can be very helpful to new players

[Jon Gotham]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 January 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Somehow I have faith they will figure it out and I don't think one games issue in the context of all the games with voip is any reason to fear its inclusion. But +1 for the Attempt.



I did.

My faith in PGI is sadly lacking, and I've only been playing for 3 months:)
Maybe they could could link the in game voip with mumble/ts3 etc? So groups could just boot up their normal client and still access the built in mwo voip?
The ME3 example is just one game I used for that specific example, there are others. But what it illustrates IS a BIG issue alibet a potential issue. I hear what you say about community, I really do-but that does swing both ways. Scrwing up either is of course not right.
That's why I have suggested the ideas I have, maybe that way neither side could get the wrong end of the pointy stick:) In my personal context though, yes it may make my teams that tiny bit more effective-but my enjoyment of those games will be less. Personally I really don't want to be inundated with random people all talking at me. But if it's put in the game well,, and people do use it-I'll be forced to or gimp myself. Whichever happens I personally will get my enjoyment lessened. Meaning Ill end up playing less.
Not really looking forward to that to be honest:(

And that is why I suggested the "layered" channels system, so at least I could still chat with my unit during those matches if I'm dropping solo.
But what we REALLY need to do, is get a thread going outlaying detailed wanted features of it and keep all the trolling off it.

[Sandpit]

kamiko kross, on 07 January 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

But what we REALLY need to do, is get a thread going outlaying detailed wanted features of it and keep all the trolling off it.

It's been tried but they usually get derailed or so chaotic that they're impossible to follow. I've tried (as have others) before to condense threads and then people just moan and groan and cross post. That's one of the reasons I'm so sarcastic every time I see a duplicate thread pop up, especially when it gets to the point that you have 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 threads all on the front page of the same subsection. It makes it REALLY difficult to have a meaningful exchange of ideas and most of the "good" (i know i know, good is subjective) get lost in the clutter.

I agree though, the official feedback threads are good in theory for this but they simply get far too long to keep track of.

[Alaskan Nobody]

kamiko kross, on 07 January 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

But what we REALLY need to do, is get a thread going outlaying detailed wanted features of it and keep all the trolling off it.

Adding to what Sandpit posted above:
It is a 'too many chefs' situation.

You cannot just have a 'what we want' because, lets face it, how many ways could VOIP alone be put together?
Unfortunately, once people start detailing how they want it, it turns into a trollfest, without anyone even trying to troll anyone else! see Chrono's old "Fix the Legging 'issue'" (excuse me Fix the "hitboxes" issue) post from one of the last ATDs.

[Sandpit]

Shar Wolf, on 07 January 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Adding to what Sandpit posted above:
It is a 'too many chefs' situation.

You cannot just have a 'what we want' because, lets face it, how many ways could VOIP alone be put together?
Unfortunately, once people start detailing how they want it, it turns into a trollfest, without anyone even trying to troll anyone else! see Chrono's old "Fix the Legging 'issue'" (excuse me Fix the "hitboxes" issue) post from one of the last ATDs.

This unfortunately although I have noticed if a thread can survive long enough to outlast the trolls it will usually evolve into a good open discussion and exchange of ideas. They usually don't live that long before getting derailed or locked though

[Jon Gotham]

Well, doubt I can say anymore-my ideas have been put in for consideration, I just pray this game lasts long enough to get voip:)

[Mudhutwarrior]

kamiko kross, on 07 January 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

Well, doubt I can say anymore-my ideas have been put in for consideration, I just pray this game lasts long enough to get voip:)

Seconded. After yesterdays patch I wonder what direction any of this is going. Damn slippery on the edge of the hill.