587 replies to this topic

[Kotzi]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 November 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

If this is the case, I would Assume Elo is working as intended. Is it not supposed to match you against those of a similar level? Which do you want, balanced or random? Cause Elo will/should pit us against many of the same lvl players over and over again.

Not really, i m quite new. Still i see a lot of the same names. It wouldn´t be if there are a lot of new players. I did hesitat very long to play this game although i´m a big Mechwarrior fan myself, because of F2P. As it seems my concerns are validated. It starts loosing its briliance, i admire those of you who could take this for so long. The typical feeling of beeing a cash cow is starting to grow too strong. On a matter of business it´s the logical way of rather prioritizing the moneymaker than content.

[Primez]

So after reading through this thread I figure I would add my thoughts.

1. Playerbase still shrinking observed by new and old players alike getting matched against the same people in mm.

2. Queue times going up for some players

3. Reason why people are leaving whether is PGI making broken promises or delays followed by developing things people don't want and the ever present cbill nerf.

The last one is just for roadbeer

4. Roadbeer drinking alcohol during queue times to enjoy the game. Using a crutch like alcohol to enjoy something for shame man.

Roadbeer, on 17 November 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

YMMV, I neither experience long wait times, and just the simple exercise of getting up to refill my cocktail

Edited by Primez, 18 November 2013 - 06:20 AM.

[ShinVector]

ssm, on 18 November 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

That's one of the things that bug me - If Star Citizen won't be F2P of any kind, how it's gonna sustain itself without publisher providing cashflow needed to pay for servers, support and staff?

Not to mention that private, moddable servers would divide playerbase and kill one of the main selling points of this game - alive, persistent universe.

You realise there is nothing set in stone right ?
If you are so, interested join RSI.. The discussions is there...

Let's see how the dog fighting module goes first... I get the feeling we might get a glimpse of it 26th Nov else Dec as CR had promised.

Edited by ShinVector, 18 November 2013 - 06:25 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kotzi, on 18 November 2013 - 06:12 AM, said:

Not really, i m quite new. Still i see a lot of the same names. It wouldn´t be if there are a lot of new players. I did hesitat very long to play this game although i´m a big Mechwarrior fan myself, because of F2P. As it seems my concerns are validated. It starts loosing its briliance, i admire those of you who could take this for so long. The typical feeling of beeing a cash cow is starting to grow too strong. On a matter of business it´s the logical way of rather prioritizing the moneymaker than content.

But you are either rising or falling at a pace that may just be playing exactly at your level of play and so are those names you see. In about 6-8 hours of play I didn't see a huge number of repeat names, and I look for forum names and such. I did see Alistair Winters about 4 matches in a row both with and against me one night.

[Training Instructor]

I made my account on October 31st, 2012, after hearing promises of clan mechs and community warfare.

It's been over a year, and we're looking at another year before the game is anything close to that promised state. I'm puzzling over the same subjects as Victor Morrison and Lefteye: what have they been doing exactly besides pushing out new mechs and an occasional new map? The designers kept on saying they were looking at stuff, but it was freaking open beta, where they literally could have played with heat levels, ammo per ton, recoil, etc. on the fly, rather than compiling five months worth of data before doing anything at all.

I feel that if they were bought out tomorrow by a more experienced game design studio, the new owners would be walking through that Vancouver office viewing many of the coding and community relations team, as well as the game designers, the same way an 18th century veterinarian would view a bunch of horses with severely broken legs.

[Autobot9000]

Well is it surprising that people stop playing? It's a pretty dull 1st person shooter with a fantastic theme, that has great fans. They could have made a lot more out fo this than yet another shooter (and they promised to with community warfare), but PGIs progress has been slow. They delivered an ever unfinished game sprinkled with promises all over the place and the game is here for many months now with even more months of beta with a meager couple of maps, that more or less all need serious rework and 2 boring game modes from the 80s. They now work on clans (i.e. getting new pieces into the game), but they don't realize, that the game itself is too boring to play. All this with lots of performance issues and bugs and not great Q&A overall... I think it's really not surprising at all, that people are putting this game on the shelf very very rapidly. PGIs only hope is the strong Battletech fanbase - these people will not give up quite as fast as they would on a game with a different theme.

[Kotzi]

I´m not talking about 1 guy, there are severals, for several days. That would be quite a coincidence. And the past few days it seems to be worse as there are games where 1 or 2 players miss completely. Nonetheless it is still boring after a month or so with so little possibilities. Glad i did not put money in yet, though the temptation is still there.

[DaZur]

Primez, on 18 November 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

So after reading through this thread I figure I would add my thoughts.

1. Playerbase still shrinking observed by new and old players alike getting matched against the same people in mm.

2. Queue times going up for some players

3. Reason why people are leaving whether is PGI making broken promises or delays followed by developing things people don't want and the ever present cbill nerf.

The last one is just for roadbeer

4. Roadbeer drinking alcohol during queue times to enjoy the game. Using a crutch like alcohol to enjoy something for shame man.

1.) False assumption. Fact is players seeing the same players during the span of their play session is a statistical norm. a.) these "same" players are essentially playing within the same Elo bracket, thus statistically they are going to have a perceived disproportionate number of pairings. b.) Unless players are putzing between matches, they have a higher probability of "sync" dropping which is statistically elevated.

2.) Two influences for these anomalies: a.) Playing during non prime-time time frames. b.) You are somewhere at the polar ends of the Elo curve. (There are smaller pools of players the further from the median Elo average a player migrates).

3.) Your bias is showing...

4.) Alcohol in moderation has shown to improve skill based competitive games because it relaxes the participant, thus mitigating stress induces anxieties.

Edited by DaZur, 18 November 2013 - 06:41 AM.

[Primez]

DaZur, on 18 November 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

1.) False assumption. Fact is players seeing the same players durign the span of their play session is a statistical norm. a.) these "same" players are essentially playing within the same Elo bracket, thus statistically they are going to have a perceived disproportionate number of pairings. b.) Unless players are putzing between matches, they have a higher probability of "sync" dropping which is statistically elevated.

I don't know man if thats a fact. In other games like league of legends where I am gold elo all 3 seasons I don't see the same players over and over again. This can also be said for TF2, DOTA 2, SC etc. etc... Infact the only other game where I see the same players over and over again is APB but thats because each district server can only hold 100 players. I understand grouping players in the same elo bracket but the problem shows when the playerbase is so small you consistently see the same faces for weeks at a time.

Edit: I could see PGI making a patch to remove ingame names from players and the scoreboard to fix this issue. I know they wouldn't do that but PGI logic is funny sometimes.

Edited by Primez, 18 November 2013 - 06:48 AM.

[KinLuu]

Primez, on 18 November 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

I don't know man if thats a fact. In other games like league of legends where I am gold elo all 3 seasons I don't see the same players over and over again. This can also be said for TF2, DOTA 2, SC etc. etc... Infact the only other game where I see the same players over and over again is APB but thats because each district server can only hold 100 players. I understand grouping players in the same elo bracket but the problem shows when the playerbase is so small you consistently see the same faces for weeks at a time.

Edit: I could see PGI making a patch to remove ingame names from players and the scoreboard to fix this issue. I know they wouldn't do that but PGI logic is funny sometimes.

Did you seriously just compare MWO to LoL?

Wat.

watwatwatwatwat

LoL has millions of consecutive players. This game has a target audience of maybe one million.

[Primez]

KinLuu, on 18 November 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Did you seriously just compare MWO to LoL?

Wat.

watwatwatwatwat

LoL has millions of consecutive players. This game has a target audience of maybe one million.

Edit: See thats where I think different why have a small playerbase why aim so low. If it's a F2P I would expect them to aim higher for that larger audience.

Edited by Primez, 18 November 2013 - 06:53 AM.

[Kotzi]

Well we are all guessing, so if you dont know your elo you cant tell for sure if it is the way you say. I still doubt that i get the same results like 3 - 4 players i see every night.

[KinLuu]

No, what I am saying is, that even if MWO would be perfect (it isn't, it feels like an early alpha...), it could not even reach one million players.

You need to compare it to other niche F2P games, like War Thunder, Navyfield or STO.

Edited by KinLuu, 18 November 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kotzi, on 18 November 2013 - 06:35 AM, said:

I´m not talking about 1 guy, there are severals, for several days. That would be quite a coincidence. And the past few days it seems to be worse as there are games where 1 or 2 players miss completely. Nonetheless it is still boring after a month or so with so little possibilities. Glad i did not put money in yet, though the temptation is still there.

If those several players have a near exact Elo as you, how do you expert to not see their names over and over?

DaZur, on 18 November 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

1.) False assumption. Fact is players seeing the same players during the span of their play session is a statistical norm. a.) these "same" players are essentially playing within the same Elo bracket, thus statistically they are going to have a perceived disproportionate number of pairings. b.) Unless players are putzing between matches, they have a higher probability of "sync" dropping which is statistically elevated.

2.) Two influences for these anomalies: a.) Playing during non prime-time time frames. b.) You are somewhere at the polar ends of the Elo curve. (There are smaller pools of players the further from the median Elo average a player migrates).

3.) Your bias is showing...

4.) Alcohol in moderation has shown to improve skill based competitive games because it relaxes the participant, thus mitigating stress induces anxieties.

Well you saw me demonstrating #4 quite a bit Saturday night!

[Kotzi]

Because, if plenty of players you wont, if few players you will, presumption. Thus if i see them regulary the chances are high that there are not many new players in that pool. Leading to my feeling of lacking players, especially new players like me. Still i could be wrong but what are the chances to play against the same guys in a 12vs12 match if there are like 2.000 players?

Edited by Kotzi, 18 November 2013 - 07:05 AM.

[DaZur]

Primez, on 18 November 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

I don't know man if thats a fact. In other games like league of legends where I am gold elo all 3 seasons I don't see the same players over and over again. This can also be said for TF2, DOTA 2, SC etc. etc... Infact the only other game where I see the same players over and over again is APB but thats because each district server can only hold 100 players. I understand grouping players in the same elo bracket but the problem shows when the playerbase is so small you consistently see the same faces for weeks at a time.

Edit: See thats where I think different why have a small playerbase why aim so low. If it's a F2P I would expect them to aim higher for that larger audience.

The MW:O playerbase is nowhere near as saturated as other more mainstream F2P offerings... The reality is, MW:O is a niche genre and as such, the playerbase pool is relatively shallow compared to similar offerings.

What a lot of player like yourself experience is nothing out of the norm if you think it through...

Example Players: "Bob" and "Tom"

-Bob and Tom have similar Elo rankings.
-Bob & Tom both reside in North America
-Bob & Tom both play between 8PM & 12AM
-Bob & Tom both are grinding with their go-to mechs... so they tend to re-launch immediately upon returning to their mech bay.

Taking the above into consideration, Tom and Bob are an example of a perfect storm... A statistical rut where their Elo and play-styles predicate a perceptually disproportionate odds of playing / seeing each other.

Truth is... It's not nearly as uncommon as one would think.

Edited by DaZur, 18 November 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kotzi, on 18 November 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

Because, if plenty of players you wont, if few players you will, presumption. Thus if i see them regulary the chances are high that there are not many new players in that pool. Leading to my feeling of lacking players, especially new players like me. Still i could be wrong but what are the chances to play against the same guys in a 12vs12 match if there are like 2.000 players?

It doesn't matter the amount of players. Elo will match you v the players you are best matched against first, then fill the gaps from outside your level as needed. Statistically you should see some of the same players over and over if their Elo is close enough to yours.

[Haji1096]

Without knowing exactly how the matchmaker balances ELO, grouping, and weight class. One can't rely on queue times or seeing the same players in every drop to hypothesize on if the user base is shrinking or growing.

I don't know what PGI is working on but the game is definitely a bit stagnant with SRMS and LRMS being useless due to borked hit detection, lack of role warfare, and game modes. The core gameplay is still fun, but it could be a lot better once missiles are actually viable, there is some reason to bring lights and mediums, and there are game objectives that go beyond kill the other side.

[Blurry]

Riptor, on 18 November 2013 - 03:56 AM, said:

All star citizen has to do right is provide moddable private servers.

Thats all it takes to create a game that will last years... just like freelancer for example or neverwinternights 1+2 (yeah there are still servers around for all those games... go figure)

Sadly MWO wont be able to take that route due to its nature as f2p

Star cit has proved time and time again it will take advantage of the community and grub and grab as much money as they can. They will exploit any division for profit.
Sorry But they are as bad or worse than EA. Yes I have spent well over $600 on it but they have proven to be poorly run.

[Primez]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 November 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

It doesn't matter the amount of players. Elo will match you v the players you are best matched against first, then fill the gaps from outside your level as needed. Statistically you should see some of the same players over and over if their Elo is close enough to yours.

But it does matter. Lets says kitzo elo is 1500 and there are 100 players playing. Out of those 100 players 12 are around his elo he will see those 12 players over and over again at a very high chance being they are around the same elo.

Now lets look at it if there was a larger player base and kitzo elo is still the same. Lets say 1000 players are playing right now and out of those 1000 players 250 are around his elo. He now has a pool of 250 potential players and the chances of him playing with the same player are much lower because of a larger playerbase.

No one is arguing about getting the same skill level in matches, just the same players as in the physical player and name being the same not the type of player.

Edited by Primez, 18 November 2013 - 07:19 AM.