72 replies to this topic

[SniperCon]

Any statistic can be misleading. One of my worst games in my new commando was 700+ damage and 3 kills.

It was Alpine conquest. Myself and a Jenner went to Kappa, then took down an approaching Raven and Hunchback at the loss of the Jenner. Then, I caught an isolated Trebuchet coming out of Theta, and then proceeded to spend 4 minutes stripping almost all of this armor while skillfully taking minimal return damage. We lost on caps shortly after I got the Treb. Not a productive game in my book.

[XtremWarrior]

Voted "no".
I really like to see the kill-assists count added, but not instead of KDR, just along with.
I use this as a improvement indicator: even if it's obvious that your Kills score cannot be absolutely relevant cuz sometimes you just don't get the finishing blows.
But strangely, the better i get at piloting a Mech', the higher my KDR goes... So there must be a link somewhere.

By the way, Assists are not much more relevant than KDR: you can hit a target with a couple medium lasers and score a Kill-Assist having done nothing to help, just as you can strip a Mech' of nearly all its armor and still don't be the one who kill him.

Edit: Btw, if your a sharp shooter (which i am not) you can score Kills with relatively low damages. So the 2-0 200dmg vs the 0-8 600dmg is also irrelevant (especially if you killed two Lights in a conquest game).

Edited by XtremWarrior, 28 November 2013 - 02:14 AM.

[Cimarb]

XtremWarrior, on 28 November 2013 - 01:59 AM, said:

Voted "no".
I really like to see the kill-assists count added, but not instead of KDR, just along with.
I use this as a improvement indicator: even if it's obvious that your Kills score cannot be absolutely relevant cuz sometimes you just don't get the finishing blows.
But strangely, the better i get at piloting a Mech', the higher my KDR goes... So there must be a link somewhere.

By the way, Assists are not much more relevant than KDR: you can hit a target with a couple medium lasers and score a Kill-Assist having done nothing to help, just as you can strip a Mech' of nearly all its armor and still don't be the one who kill him.

Edit: Btw, if your a sharp shooter (which i am not) you can score Kills with relatively low damages. So the 2-0 200dmg vs the 0-8 600dmg is also irrelevant (especially if you killed two Lights in a conquest game).

Exactly, which is why KDR should be removed from such a prominent spot. He isn't saying to remove the stat completely, just replace its prominence with KAR, which would put the focus on your contribution, instead of your ability to hide and cherry pick kills.

[XtremWarrior]

Cimarb, on 28 November 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

Exactly, which is why KDR should be removed from such a prominent spot. He isn't saying to remove the stat completely, just replace its prominence with KAR, which would put the focus on your contribution, instead of your ability to hide and cherry pick kills.

Ryvucz, on 17 November 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

KDR in any MMO is ridiculous, especially in a team based game.

My suggestion is to remove KDR in favor of KAR (Kill/Assist Ratio).

Sorry but OP is clear about his thoughts. As i said, i'm totally in for this feature and even for a less prominent version of KDR, but saying KDR is silly and have to be removed is (for me) a non-sense. So then again, NO.

Edited by XtremWarrior, 28 November 2013 - 11:35 AM.

[Ryvucz]

Because KDR is the only way to make you feel better and promote your worth, right?

[XtremWarrior]

As is Kill-Assist Ratio to you it seems...
Even if we prove that none is more relevant than the other. I said your KAR was a nice idea, but what you really want is to hear that we don't want KDR.
Sorry again, but no. I like to work hard with my Mech so i can see this Stat rise, just as i try to rise my Win/Lose ratio. Should I have your KAR, i'd also do my best to make it goes up.
Most comment i read here are saying the same, but obviously you have a problem with KDR. But blame me, it should make you feel better.

[Appogee]

Ryvucz, on 17 November 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Why? Because then people won't have to worry about being on a team with a tart that favors padding his KDR by hiding in a hole, fleeing from battle, or just doing something [REDACTED] (such as shooting like crazy at anything and everything in front of them just to get that last shot in for a kill, even team killing).

As I discovered in this thread, there are a surprising number of players who would rather suicide than try to fight on and score a last kill for their team.

Even though there's no reward for suiciding. Even though there are potential rewards for keeping fighting. Even though suiciding is against the rules of the game. Even though I've proven many times that your most epic victories are possible when the odds seem to be stacked against you.

Edited by Appogee, 29 November 2013 - 02:12 AM.

[The Basilisk]

I think Stats should be removed.
Maybe the weapon stats should stay. They are actualy usefull to see if you are interested in how well your beloved AC20 Victor Build actually fares.
Subjective perception is every worriors biggest enemy and weapon and chassis stats regarding accuracity and surviveability can be usefull for a warrior.
But I would be fine with the total removal of all e-peen tools.

And @Apogee:
As said before suiciding at the end of a game when you are the last surviver with no chance to win isn't only perfect fine with the mods, it also saves the nerves and time of your fellow players and as you said it has no real impact on rewards of others (except on you who is obviously still a bit angree on the poor little spider that has depraved you of your oh so well earned and only easy kill in that match)

Edited by The Basilisk, 29 November 2013 - 02:19 AM.

[Diego Angelus]

No need to remove them they are just there as stat they are nothing special its just fun to watch those and see how they change.

[Flying Judgement]

GalaxyBluestar, on 19 November 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

i knew i was doing something wrong. i need more kill stealing and stop caping when ninja mechs fail in my matches.

seriously the figures do not tell what is happening on the battlefield,

3 kills and 120 DMG; says the guy was fumbling around letting people die but they carried enough so that he could clean up at the end.

3 kills 400 Dmg' means he fought and is a good shot but could still lose cause he can't protect a base and lost to cap or could still be killed along the way.

5 kills 800 Dmg; yes this is the guy who's usefull carrying a team... doesn't mean the other guys with low damage and kills are useless, there's simply not enough enemies to go around.

and there ends our statistic twisting lesson for today.

if anything is important it's a fun-win ratio, much prefer looking at my averages on each map rather than mech performance, it shows just a bit of what i can contribute and/or how less of a stone round a team's neck i am.

and yes i'm a bit of a stone.

do you like backstabbing in a hunchback a cicada or a jenner ?
u can easily destroy completely healthy 2 heavy and a medium with 150 Damage.

have you ever made 6+ kills in a machinegun light mech? finishing of the left over can really help the survival of the overall team.

800 Damage with 1 or 0 kill is just a bad shoot or an LRM boat not targeting for himself
a good sniper with 400-500 damage have to have minimum 3 kill or let his team finish them so he can shoot more important ones
my advice just core them almost completely than leave them to the bugs and turn to the next target

Edited by Flying Judgement, 29 November 2013 - 04:13 AM.

[Appogee]

The Basilisk, on 29 November 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

As said before suiciding at the end of a game when you are the last surviver with no chance to win

If you have weapons and legs, you have a chance to win. I already shared the videos that prove this.

The Basilisk, on 29 November 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

isn't only perfect fine with the mods,

It's against the rules, as stated by the Code of Conduct.

The Basilisk, on 29 November 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

it also saves the nerves and time of your fellow players

It's hard to know what ''most'' people want, so I don't think you can claim to be doing anyone a favour except yourself, when your deliberately run OOB to avoid a battle.

In fact, judging by the comments in chat of those who do watch enemies deliberately run out of bounds, I suspect many - maybe most - MechWarriors would rather finish the battle they started. And that applies equally... either fighting til they are finished off, or finishing off the enemy Mechs that were arrayed against them.

The Basilisk, on 29 November 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

it has no real impact on rewards of others

That is factually Incorrect. If you kill one more damaged Mech, then everyone who damaged that Mech will get additional CBills and XP. If you run OOB, everyone gets nothing.


By the way, aren't you the drama queen who made a big show of putting me on ''ignore'' in that thread - after you'd made a single post about your right to run away from battles? Hilariously ironic.

Edited by Appogee, 29 November 2013 - 05:41 AM.

[Fut]

To think that PGI is going to remove KDR is a bit of a joke. They won't do it.
It's quite clear that they're catering to the console crowd in a lot of ways, and we all know that those types of gamers are all about achievements, trophies, and stats...etc. It wouldn't surprise me if PGI introduced badges to award players with really high KDRs someday.

Besides, it's a little bit silly to remove a stat like that anyhow. If KDR is gone, will the game stop tracking our kills and our deaths? Doubtful. So people focused on KDR will be able to calculate it quickly enough.
The best that we can hope for is for the Devs to add in a few more stats. Perhaps an Assists/Death Ratio, and a Kill/Assists Ratio.

Once they give us more to look at, KDR, ADR, KAR...etc it'll come down to the community to determine which one of these people think is the most important.

Edited by Fut, 29 November 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Appogee]

Roland, on 19 November 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

People who think that high KDR isn't a huge contributing factor to winning, are fooling themselves. They are just trying to rationalize that despite having terrible KDR's, they are still somehow useful.

I don't think that's true. If you think deeply on the subject of ''what makes a good MechWarrior'' and also ''what makes a successful team player in a game of MWO'', you realise that there are a variety of factors, of which k/d is only one.

Other factors include ''amount of damage done per class of Mech'', saving/making caps, creating strategic distractions and routing the enemy lines, aiding the team's situation awareness, rallying other players around shared objectives, etc.

Then you counterbalance that against the fact that, unfortunately, some players actually undermine team performance by focusing on padding their k/d ratio. In recent weeks we have seen matches, videos and threads in which players have deliberately hung back from battles in attempts to maximize kills near the end, lessening their team's chance to win. I even spectated one player in a barely-damaged BlackJack run OOB when there were still 4 players left on our team(!) When I challenged him on it, he said that we were outnumber two to one and he wasn't prepared to risk fighting on in case he got killed (!)

So, the k/d stat can drive the wrong behavior. I think this is what people are concerned about. I don't think anyone is seeking its removal as an excuse to cover up their own performance.

Fut, on 29 November 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

The best that we can hope for is for the Devs to add in a few more stats. Perhaps a Assists/Death Ratio, and a Kill/Assists Ratio. Once the give us more to look at, KDR, ADR, KAR...etc it'll come down to the community to determine which one of these people think is the most important.

I agree you are probably right.

I had a dream of coding a webscraper which harvest stats and then uses an algorithm to determine whether I'm getting better or worse as a player. RL will likely prevent me from having enough time to do it.

[Diego Angelus]

Why would you want any stat to be removed ? I mean lets remove all then even damage,assists... I like having as much info about my performance it shows pretty well my play style and when I change it can see difference in stats they are there to help me. If you don't want them fine but I do so ask for button to remove stats for you not all of us.

[Pwnocchio]

The Basilisk, on 29 November 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

I think Stats should be removed.
Maybe the weapon stats should stay. They are actualy usefull to see if you are interested in how well your beloved AC20 Victor Build actually fares.
Subjective perception is every worriors biggest enemy and weapon and chassis stats regarding accuracity and surviveability can be usefull for a warrior.
But I would be fine with the total removal of all e-peen tools.

You need to right-size your insecurity, mate.

[BFett]

Padding K/D ratios is silly since the easiest way to make sure your K/D stays the same is to kill at least one mech per match. I started doing this and guess what I'm at the highest K/D I've ever had.

[Cimarb]

I really think the OP needs to clarify better. Based upon his comments, I don't think he wants the stat completely removed - he just wants it to be removed from prominence (front and center and colored red/green).

[Kojin]

I voted no simply because player stats are not a public thing and anything there is purely for ones own knowledge and can be used how you wish to assess how you feel you're doing.

I would also say, though, more statistics about damage done per match, per kill and per class type, damage received and more would also be beneficial to me. There's a game in the depths of the void called Darkspace and it had a nice collection of stats to view.



As you can see, although the deaths (killed) is high and the kills is low, the total damage done (ships damaged) makes for a reasonable ratio. Especially if you take into account I spent a lot of the time being a repair ship (repair stat = total number of ships repaired) and also suicided 15 times accidentally on planet crashes....

Some of these stats could be converted into more meaningful stats for MWO I'm sure.

[Commissar Aku]

Ryvucz, on 17 November 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

That's ELO, completely different scoring system. (Win/Loss only)

I think they should just fix the ELO, I think that would take care of 99% of in game issues people have, win/loss ratio ELO is dumb, KDR would be a better way to do it, but I vote for a level system, and since that is supposed to be part of CW maybe they should put it in early as they will never release CW anyway.

[DAYLEET]

Seeing how this game works, it's damage done thats the most important stats of the game, remove kdr completly i dont care but DO add a ratio of dps done per game total all mech included. We might get more people giving all they got instead of waiting for the perfect shot to finish a mech while his friends are doing most of the work.