49 replies to this topic

[John MatriX82]

So.. one of the changes that you could do to make a gimped chassis,, a decent one was to change hitboxes of the side torso to this


Aka making that the upper part of the side torso is indeed part of the arm hitbox.. well you didn't.

This was a critical change to make that chassis more resistant both with XL engines (because hitting the side torsoes would have been harder due to the tanking ability of the upper shoulder as shown in the mechlab) and also for STD-engine configs, because once the arm is blown off, only 50% of the damage would be transfered from the shoulder to the side torso.
If the torso is blown off, the chance to see transferred only 25% of the damage (like the Centurion does) to the CT would have been higher.

What you did is to reduce the CT size (which is a good thing tbh) at the expense of XL configs, making Pretty Babies and 9Ms even more worthless than they were before this change.

Uber delusional!

And in the meantime 8 series Awesomes still scream to see their engine limits upped, at least to 325s in order to allow them to move faster than Stalkers/Highlanders and even Atlases.. that guess what, use to eat Awesomes for breakfast.

Last EDIT: I'm also still waiting to see an official position in making possible for Awesomes like 9M and 8Q (and maybe also to all the remaining ones as a bonus) to be granted the ability to shoot 3xPPCs without running into the ghost heat penalty. 4PPCs should of course run into the current heat penalty, but 3 shouldn't. This would make the chassis counterable due to its extremely bulky model, but more respected on the battlefield. And more enjoyable.

Edited by John MatriX82, 20 November 2013 - 07:56 AM.

[Zordicron]

I was going to start a thread similar to this. I agree with the sentiment, though you come off a little condescending and hostile.

Really though, I was extremely dissapointed not to see any arm box adjustments to go with the side/CT ones. Really, the CT should be smaller, the side torso made to cover the area that used to be CT. But then also, the arm box made to reduce the side torso.

Especially on Atlas mech. Indeed, the pictures above of the awesome should be in- this is just a logical conclusion. The atlas though is not as apparent. It is 100 tons, and basically gets a side torso blown off every match.

both of these mechs are honkin' assault mechs. they should lose arms and legs before going down. this basically never happens. I think in my matches in my 3 atlas mechs i have lost one arm one time. I dont recal losing an arm on my awesomes. This is atrocious to me.

i am glad to see the Atlas is stil "still investigated" as it really needs the "new" side torsos reduced by increasing arm box coverage. the awesome also needs this, and I thought it was obvious, so obvious I didnt bother to post any suggestions about it before this went in. Now I wish I had. I had made comments in unofficial threads on the subject, numerous ones, in fact it may have even been my idea to do this in the first place.


Come on PGI, dont leave it like this, it is too half baked. You need to revisit the arms on at least the awesome and atlas to make them play like assault mechs.

[John MatriX82]

Yep I know the harsh is high in my OP, but.. meh, it's 1 year we all push together for that change..

[MonkeyCheese]

John MatriX82, on 19 November 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

Eldagore, on 19 November 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

I think in my matches in my 3 atlas mechs i have lost one arm one time. I dont recal losing an arm on my awesomes. This is atrocious to me.

This please. At this point I dont mind either way if XL engines are made better or worse in my 9m Awesome but I really expected something along the lines of that 2nd image where the arms were able to shield the torso better.

[Troutmonkey]

Eldagore, on 19 November 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

i am glad to see the Atlas is stil "still investigated" as it really needs the "new" side torsos reduced by increasing arm box coverage. the awesome also needs this, and I thought it was obvious, so obvious I didnt bother to post any suggestions about it before this went in. Now I wish I had. I had made comments in unofficial threads on the subject, numerous ones, in fact it may have even been my idea to do this in the first place.

I'm still waiting for the patch to download, but I'm against any move to make the Atlas tougher. It's already one of the biggest and toughest threats in the game, and the only way not to get crushed by them is to take out the ballistic torso before finishing it off.

On the other hand I'm all for any buffs to the Awesome. I almost never see this mech out on the field, and more variety in deployed mechs will just show how balanced they are.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 19 November 2013 - 04:27 PM.

[Autobot9000]

I would actually agree on the engine rating here (the arm hitbox goes way too far), but.......

I am an ex-BattleTech TT player and Awesome are slow and sturdy, thats their legacy. They arent the lightning fast bulked up mediums. The one thing PGI should absolutely change is ghost heat, because that's whats really really REALLY killing Awesomes. If I can neither use PPCs or a bunch of large lasers efficiently on my Awesomes, then there are zero chances I will ever be in a position to play this chassis remotely competitively.

[Black Templar]

I think the changes were a step in the right direction, but could have been taken even further. As Op said XL configs were basically gimped by the changes and the 8-Series definitely needs an increase in engine sizes. The Awesome is such an iconic Battlemech, but it has been basically useless since....always

Please don't take your time and let this mech stay like that for another 6 months

edit: I don't want to ninja the thread, but I agree with the Ghost Heat. Maybe the Awesome should be excluded from it to run the 3PPCs then? *ducks away*

Edited by Black Templar, 19 November 2013 - 04:41 PM.

[Troutmonkey]

Autobot9000, on 19 November 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

If I can neither use PPCs or a bunch of large lasers efficiently on my Awesomes, then there are zero chances I will ever be in a position to play this chassis remotely competitively.

I've never piloted an awesome but I use both LLs and PPCs on my Stalkers without too much issue. Maybe the lower tonnage gives you less HS sinks, but you can get around Ghost Heat by just chaining LL's and only firing Dual PPC (not 3)

[Mauller]

It really is a shame about the awesome. I've always loved the design and concept, both in TT and in MWO. That being said however, I will never pilot one. I used to have one, and I promptly sold it. The thing is a massive target, which makes it a liability.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Troutmonkey, on 19 November 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

I've never piloted an awesome but I use both LLs and PPCs on my Stalkers without too much issue. Maybe the lower tonnage gives you less HS sinks, but you can get around Ghost Heat by just chaining LL's and only firing Dual PPC (not 3)

Awesomes have lower actuators and a hand slot in the arms, so like three less slots than the Stalkers. But the bigger difference is the height of the energy hardpoints between the mechs. Awesomes basically are shooting from the hip and they have short legs on top of that.

Stalkers have very high energy hardpoints, better front profile when using proper cover, are taller so have different cover options available also, and have the five extra tons, and the three extra crit slots available.

The changed Hitboxes are a step in the right direction for Awesomes, but dunno if it's enough, and Stalkers will get a hitbox boost to the pelvis area too, when they get their pass in the future.

I've run both and as energy platforms, the Stalkers have some advantages that help them out, but if those energy boat Awesomes could go a bit faster their better agility would help them out even more in comparison.

Then looking at the Heros, the Pretty Baby for example has one less hardpoint compared to the other Awesomes and has that acceleration nerf quirk too, the Misery at least can still be a nice energy boat in comparison, where the PB is more of a generalist mech I guess.

[StalaggtIKE]

This would be ideal.

[AztecD]

the awesome 8q is my favorite mech, i have used it ever since i started playing MW2. Just give it the proper heatsink usage or no ghost heat for 3 PPC's i mean its the only thing that chassis is capable of doing, and here is the only place where its gimped beyond recognition

[Nothing Whatsoever]

There's some good feedback here in this thread on the third page about the Awesomes' new hitboxes: http://mwomercs.com/...so/page__st__40

[Tahribator]

This should have been the solution. This has come up many times on the forums in the last months that I thought the devs could pick it up.

I don't have much hope for a revisit of Awesomes, but it could be great if the devs took some community feedback on this issue. I have put 60 hours into my Awesomes and I'm pretty sure I have a valuable feedback on what needs to be done. Rather than a dev who barely plays the actual game, let alone exclusively with one mech for a long time.

This post explains what we mean perfectly;

Carrioncrows, on 19 November 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

Boy

Did i waste my time trying to change this game or what?

Here are the updated hitboxes



And here is what the hitboxes should be like:



I know I told everyone not to get their hopes up but at this point feeling pretty betrayed.

Will be years before we can talk PGI into spending the time and money to do it right. At that point who cares.

Probably my fault for not doing a better job of explaining what it means to have intelligent hitboxes.

Edited by Tahribator, 20 November 2013 - 02:36 AM.

[Carrioncrows]

I'll jump in here as well to say this is what the Awesome's hitboxes should be.

Edited by Carrioncrows, 20 November 2013 - 03:04 AM.

[RickySpanish]

I wonder if the reason PGI didn't make this happen was that there is some sort of technical limitation with making the shoulder pad be considered part of the arm hit box, but not have it actually move with the arm, and they're too embarrassed to admit it

[John MatriX82]

RickySpanish, on 20 November 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

I wonder if the reason PGI didn't make this happen was that there is some sort of technical limitation with making the shoulder pad be considered part of the arm hit box, but not have it actually move with the arm, and they're too embarrassed to admit it

I'd like to know, but at the moment I'm still feeling too betrayed (as I felt a countless amount of times) to even think that they had any kind of technical limitation. I had a lot of faith, they listened to the idea to split the pelvis, they listened for the Orion and spiders (Atlases meh I don't even know why they bothered about), my hopes for the Awesomes were nigh, the delusion is abysimal now.

I'd love to see a dev coming up here "hey, we have to rework some stuff to make that shoulder hitbox to be part of the arm, we'll do it but in future, we couldn't slip it through for this patch, sorry" faith could be restored. At least a little..

[Mad Cow Jenkins]

I really find the hitbox models (including suggested ones) are horrible they don´t follow the "natural" lines of the mech in any sort of way.
It really should not be necesary to go into testing grounds and laserburn mech for hours to remember each mechs hitboxes.....

[gaSyeraSS]

IMHO they never had the Intention reworking the shoulder section of the awesome chassis (which IS a part of the arm according to common sense AND mechlab) idk who spread this rumor among the forums. But still John is right, awesome hitbox as it is now is not acceptable and still requires to be looked at(as some other mechs hitboxes as well! and yes, I do know they are trying it).

[C12AZyED]

While I am happy to see PGI moving in the right direction with their acknowledgment and adjustments made towards the Awesome, I agree with the OP in that there is still some further tweaking necessary. As shown in the diagram, the Left and Right arms do not extend into the "high shoulder" area of the Awesome. PGI should do the chassis more justice and let the function follow form in this regard. Clearly those high mounted pouldrons which extend into the shoulders should be considered arms, thus reducing the size of the side torsos slightly and making XL builds more viable. I also believe in the idea of certain mechs receiving minor quirks to offset the innate weaknesses of their chassis' profile. The Awesome in this instance, should be the only mech that can natively mount 3xPPC without Ghost Heat Penalties, Asymetric Hunchbacks should receive +10 armour to their right shoulder etc. As far as the increase engine capacity for 8- series is concerned, I would most definitely welcome it, but feel it would be less important a change than those previously mentioned. Dear PGI, I hope you are still open to the idea of further modifications to the Awesome, more variety of mechs in on the battlefield makes the game far more fun than any other incremental balance changes, and I believe with this sentiment in mind I speak on behalf of the community.

Edited by C12AZyED, 20 November 2013 - 08:56 AM.