131 replies to this topic

[Roughneck45]

Khobai, on 19 November 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

The biggest issue with the Awesome now is energy vs ballistic balance, the Awesome has no ballistic hardpoints, which puts it at a huge disadvantage in the current metagame. Also SRMs are in a really bad place, which again, is not good for the Awesome.

Except that even if SRM's and Lasers were dominant the Stalker would still make the Awesome obsolete.

Low mounted weapon hardpoints and being the size of a barn is what makes the Awesome suck. Even if they redesigned the hit boxes again to make it more survivable it would still be terrible compared to the stalker.

They need a full redesign of this mech. It has to be skinner and the arms need to be be able to shield. They also need to up the engine cap for a few of the variants.

[Fuggles]

pretty much what roughneck45 said. the mech has significant disadvantages compared to every other assault chassis.

its no longer the fast assault as the victor and Battlemaster can match the 9Ms speed, the stalker does energy/srms better, the victor is just as fast and has JJs as well as multiple balistic points and just as XL friendly.

my verdict is the hitbox changes are positive, however there are so many things in the game right now that put the awsome at a disadvantage.

[Davers]

Carrioncrows, on 19 November 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

Boy

Did i waste my time trying to change this game or what?


I know I told everyone not to get their hopes up but at this point feeling pretty betrayed.

Will be years before we can talk PGI into spending the time and money to do it right. At that point who cares.

Probably my fault for not doing a better job of explaining what it means to have intelligent hitboxes.

Baby steps my friend, baby steps.

When I fist see an Awesome in game my initial response is, "Why is that building shooting at me?" They are just way too wide.

They should base the Awesome off of IG-88

[General Taskeen]

RickySpanish, on 19 November 2013 - 06:14 PM, said:

The art of balancing is not to make extremely drastic changes, no matter how right they may seem. This is a step in the right direction, although the Mech doesn't have ballistics and or jump jets and or ECM so it's kind of still a bit naff imo.

Ricky, the point is when you compare those drawings. The one Carrion Crow drew fixed the issue with the CT being hit from the side. That is not fixed on the new hitboxes. In other Mech games, turning your Mech actually mattered even if the model showed a big portion sticking way out - even if you hit that part from the side, you were still doing damage to the side torso - i.e., like in MW4 on those kinds of Mech models.

Basically the whole point of Carrion Crow's suggestions was for Mechs to live way longer where twisting actually matters for those Mechs with hitbox issues.

@Davers: I've made that point as well. The MW4 awesome and MW:LL Awesome are skinny beasts. Also the miniature for the Awesome is very skinny, and even shorter than an Atlas.

Edited by General Taskeen, 19 November 2013 - 08:21 PM.

[Koniving]

This is a skinny beast?



Yes, it's thinner but it makes up for its thinner nature by being as tall as our Atlas. That... and the gundam legs of the original design. o.o; Though I like those feet better.

Edited by Koniving, 20 November 2013 - 06:34 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Carrioncrows, on 19 November 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

This would be true if we were dealing with a relatively new mech with little play time on the book.

The Awesome has been around for a Year +

The changes has needed to happen for a year plus.

Any steps taken to balance this game is the same old video game development process. In video game development that process works out to projects, and jobs. Each project and job is time and money allocated to make this change. The change is done.

I am not annoyed that they made the change, I am annoyed that they didn't CHANGE it enough. So now what are the chances that can ask PGI to allocate more money to fix an issue that should of been fixed the first pass around.

Which is why I am willing to blame myself for not better explaining what the issue was, with the awesome in the Intelligent Hitbox thread.

I thought it was obvious to anyone and everyone, but I guess not.

On the other hand, perhaps PGI understand that simply scaling the hit boxes on the Awesome won't make it a viable Mech. Solely balancing that chassis on its silhouette would require it to be skewed completely out of proportion. Therefore, PGI made modest adjustments to the chassis to bring it in line with other assault Mechs, and will effect changes further down the line to make the Awesome have a viable role in the game.

[NRP]

I ran a few drops in my 8V, PB, and 8T. It seems like the mech is slightly more durable, but it's not nearly enough. You still get dropped almost immediately by ballistics fire.

Bottom line: no significant difference.

[RickySpanish]

Carrioncrows, on 19 November 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

This would be true if we were dealing with a relatively new mech with little play time on the book.

The Awesome has been around for a Year +

The changes has needed to happen for a year plus.

Any steps taken to balance this game is the same old video game development process. In video game development that process works out to projects, and jobs. Each project and job is time and money allocated to make this change. The change is done.

I am not annoyed that they made the change, I am annoyed that they didn't CHANGE it enough. So now what are the chances that can ask PGI to allocate more money to fix an issue that should of been fixed the first pass around.

Which is why I am willing to blame myself for not better explaining what the issue was, with the awesome in the Intelligent Hitbox thread.

I thought it was obvious to anyone and everyone, but I guess not.

On the other hand, perhaps PGI understand that simply scaling the hit boxes on the Awesome won't make it a viable Mech. Solely balancing that chassis on its silhouette would require it to be skewed completely out of proportion. Therefore, PGI made modest adjustments to the chassis to bring it in line with other assault Mechs, and will effect changes further down the line to make the Awesome have a viable role in the game.

General Taskeen, on 19 November 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

Ricky, the point is when you compare those drawings. The one Carrion Crow drew fixed the issue with the CT being hit from the side. That is not fixed on the new hitboxes. In other Mech games, turning your Mech actually mattered even if the model showed a big portion sticking way out - even if you hit that part from the side, you were still doing damage to the side torso - i.e., like in MW4 on those kinds of Mech models.

Basically the whole point of Carrion Crow's suggestions was for Mechs to live way longer where twisting actually matters for those Mechs with hitbox issues.

@Davers: I've made that point as well. The MW4 awesome and MW:LL Awesome are skinny beasts. Also the miniature for the Awesome is very skinny, and even shorter than an Atlas.

And comparing MWO to MW4 is desirable why? PGI's rendering of the Awesome is as an oil tanker, the bucaneer skin even tatoos "Wide Load" on its arse. Perhaps PGI don't want the Awesome to look like a lanky old man, I certainly prefer its looks in MWO than in the screenshots you posted. Like I said, hitbox adjustments don't mean much for the Awesome because it is currently lacking in so many other areas, I don't feel that PGI messed up the hitbox changes because I don't feel that any amount of hitbox changes would have saved the Mech.

Edited by RickySpanish, 19 November 2013 - 09:14 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

Carrioncrows, on 19 November 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

Please PGI just do this, its not going to make the Awesome overpowered or anything, just more useful and maby more than just a really rare sight on the battlefield.

[anonymous161]

Davers, on 19 November 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

Baby steps my friend, baby steps.

When I fist see an Awesome in game my initial response is, "Why is that building shooting at me?" They are just way too wide.

They should base the Awesome off of IG-88

**** ig88 kinda scared me in shadow of the empire the weird noise it made, how tough it was and fast lol

Yes lets make a mech that looks like this!

Why would anyone choose to buy an awesome when so many better mechs available? Awesome was never a very good mech unless faced against mediums honestly. That being from the other games.

[Sharp Spikes]

NRP, on 19 November 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

So what's the consensus? Better or still crappola?

Absolutely the same POS. As predicted. The model is too big for its weight, so no amount of fiddling with hitboxes will improve the situation.

[tredmeister]

Well, I never stopped piloting my Awesomes. (If you saw my stable, you'd say I must be leading exponent of underdog mechs). I had all but given up hope till now, so I am happy with any changes we can get for them. Keep em coming PGI... TY!

Edited by tredmeister, 19 November 2013 - 10:02 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

NRP, on 19 November 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

So what's the consensus? Better or still crappola?

Still works wonders depending on pilot skill, heat control, situational awareness and of course what map you are on for things like cover and temperature. Oh and pick your fights well never fight other healthy assaults unless its lrms or the slowest stalker/atlas possible.

My game just now


1LL 3ML 2srm4 1srm6 AMS 85.69 kph Mastered

Sometimes I run 3 ssrm2 and BAP for those pesky lights



But I dont think they are terrible or impossible it just takes a decent build and lots of practice. My usual average damage range is 300-600 and kills are common, I know the stats say otherwise but I dont count more buggy unstable times and things like lrmapocalypse... shudders

Edited by MonkeyCheese, 19 November 2013 - 11:18 PM.

[KinLuu]

Alistair Winter, on 19 November 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

The solution is to give the AWS some kind of chassis trait, like increased cooling ability. It's easier, cheaper and more fun than redesigning the whole mech.

I expect PGI will come around and do this in.... 2015.

You did pretty well, when you dropped in your Awesome against my poor poor Atlas.

On topic:

The Awesome needs to mount its torso energy slots far higher on the torso. This would help much, much more than any hitbox adjustment. Or a completely new model, but that is not realistic.

[Kaeb Odellas]

No one is saying that it's impossible to do well in an Awesome. It just takes a lot more work to do so than every other Assault mech, because the Awesome is plainly inferior.

[MonkeyCheese]

Kaeb Odellas, on 19 November 2013 - 11:26 PM, said:

No one is saying that it's impossible to do well in an Awesome. It just takes a lot more work to do so than every other Assault mech, because the Awesome is plainly inferior.

I am not the best or anything but I love the challenge of a big walking barn door.

[xengk]

Koniving, on 19 November 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

• Select a side torso on your Awesome.
  
• Hover the mouse over the CT.
  
• Move down to the pelvis.
  
• Hover around the pelvis. Notice your lower left "outlines" the right leg. Your lower right outlines the left leg.
  
• Hover upper pelvis. Notice it goes back to outlining the CT?

Stop making me feel dirty browsing the forum.

[xengk]

tredmeister, on 19 November 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

Well, I never stopped piloting my Awesomes. (If you saw my stable, you'd say I must be leading exponent of underdog mechs). I had all but given up hope till now, so I am happy with any changes we can get for them. Keep em coming PGI... TY!

Headshot have been a problem for me in my Awesome.
I notice this often happen when the enemy is shooting down from higher ground and my mech is torso twisted side way.
The shot will either hit the CT, head or arm.

That narrow slope between the building and cave exit in frozen city have seen many decapitated Awesome.

[Kaeb Odellas]

MonkeyCheese, on 19 November 2013 - 11:32 PM, said:

I am not the best or anything but I love the challenge of a big walking barn door.

A challenge is fine, but you have to give that challenge a better reward than "feel better about yourself by playing hard mode"

Right now, the Awesome is simply too wide and easy to hit, but doesn't have any great advantage to cover for this flaw. Sure, it has the best torso twist and arm range out of all the assault mechs, but this simply isn't enough. The Awesome has disadvantages piled on top of more disadvantages. Let's see here:

Fat hitboxes? Check.
Low engine cap? Check.
Low -mounted weapons? Check.
No ballistics? Check.
No Jumpjets? Check.
Lightest in its class? Check

Every mech has some of these disavantages, but only the Awesome has all of them. The Stalker has enormous side torso, no lateral arm movement, no ballistics (excluding Misery), and the worst torso twist in the game, but it has a better CT profile and fantastic hardpoints, superior both in location and number. The Victor and Battlemaster both have the lots of firepower based on the relatively low-slung arms, but the Victor has jump jets, the Battlemaster has a brace of high-mounted torso energy points, and they can both carry massive engines and ballistic weapons (except for the missile BLR).

If you improve the Awesome in other ways, you could perhaps get away with leaving its barn-door profile in place. You could give it more hardpoints for extra punch, a higher engine cap, or a faster torso twist to allow it to use its big arms as shields. And of course, adjust the hitboxes more.

EDIT: Haven't really noticed headshots being much of an issue with them. I only really headshot Awesomes when they shut down.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 19 November 2013 - 11:49 PM.

[xengk]

Kaeb Odellas, on 19 November 2013 - 11:47 PM, said:

EDIT: Haven't really noticed headshots being much of an issue with them. I only really headshot Awesomes when they shut down.

I don't have a catapult, but the Awesome is the mech I died to headshot the most, next would the Shadow Hawk and Centurion because of the big reflective glass panel cockpit is easy to spot and shot.