131 replies to this topic

[Hans Von Lohman]

I know the main theme here seems to be that the Awesome isn't as good as it should be, but I have to say that I am using it and it is working well for me.

I have not noticed the CT being hit and never being hit in the side torso. I still run XL engines, and I now have been killed a few times by losing the side torso.

I'm not sure the debate that the Awesome is still broken is actually valid or not. I will keep playing, but I think it is working.

[Mad Cow Jenkins]

Just to put it into perspective, when you see the aws from a 60 degree angle and a distance of 60 m, the yellow is the center torso.


Compare to a stalker same distance/angle (although lower ground)



If they had followed the natural lines of the mech it would have been much better seen from a side perspective and maybe the average player would be able to figure it out without having to look it up on the forum. Ala.



Now this would kind of set the center torso in the right direction, but then the side torso would be huge when the arm is gone, which makes the most fun version not that useful anymore.

[RickySpanish]

Mad Cow Jenkins, on 20 November 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

Just to put it into perspective, when you see the aws from a 60 degree angle and a distance of 60 m, the yellow is the center torso.


Compare to a stalker same distance/angle (although lower ground)



If they had followed the natural lines of the mech it would have been much better seen from a side perspective and maybe the average player would be able to figure it out without having to look it up on the forum. Ala.



Now this would kind of set the center torso in the right direction, but then the side torso would be huge when the arm is gone, which makes the most fun version not that useful anymore.

I don't have a big problem with the difference between the Awesome and Stalker profiles, because the Stalker has no horizontal arm movement range, it's probably the easiest Mech in the game to avoid at close range, so being able to chunk the centre torso from 60 degrees away might be a little unfair. I honestly think that the developers didn't want to scale the Awesome CT down too much, because they weren't entirely certain on the effect that would have with the chassis, so we've been left with this slightly awkward result.

[Alaskan Nobody]

RickySpanish, on 20 November 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

I don't have a big problem with the difference between the Awesome and Stalker profiles, because the Stalker has no horizontal arm movement range, it's probably the easiest Mech in the game to avoid at close range, so being able to chunk the centre torso from 60 degrees away might be a little unfair. I honestly think that the developers didn't want to scale the Awesome CT down too much, because they weren't entirely certain on the effect that would have with the chassis, so we've been left with this slightly awkward result.

On the other hand, if the CT shrinks "to much" we may be left with an Assault chassis that, while still very very wide, has a design, like the Stalker - that makes it better to have a STD engine - for the slower ones, while hurting the 9M and PB....?

[Hans Von Lohman]

The downside of the Stalker has always been its horrible torso twist range of 60 degrees, no arms, other than the F that can go 85 degrees.

But the Awesomes can all torso twist 100 with 20 degree arms.

That is double the arc of fire over the stalker.

[GalaxyBluestar]

situational opportunity on the field usually dictates that front profiles are more in the firing line than the maneuvering of the torso as far as grounded assaults go.

so no the stalker front profile is a superior asset over the torso twist of the awesome, it's to large and slower target to utilize this mobility and brawling capacity which is usually best left to mediums and such.

a light can rear sucker punch an awesome like any assualt only the JJ turning of victors and highlanders are better than the awesome torso twist. barn needs to be skinner to make more out of the torso twisting defence and it would be better still if the shoulders were to become the arms. if the awesome become the centurion of the assault class then people might start considering using it rather than stalkers for missile and energy spamming.

Carrioncrows, on 20 November 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

That's the idea.

The arms themselves do not have a lot of hardpoints in them. The one verson that does, the 8T has 2 energy in each arm and besides that the only other mech is the Pretty baby with 3 hardpoints in the arms.

The arms are there to be used and need to be used.

Where this is going to come into play is for hill humping, cresting a hill and firing and then back down again.

The Awesome is renown for being a mid to long range sniper so having those hit boxs up high will help alleviate some of the damage and though the Awesome has some lower mounted hardpoints it can still be effective by taking the hit on the shoulders and returning fire.

This lines up with the lore of the awesome. Because it has those massive shoulder blades and pauldrons in just about every render or picture ever made. So anything that makes the awesome more unique and tougher is a good thing.

I am all about making assault mechs tougher.

This doesn't mean adding more armor, it means that you have to peel it: Arms, ST, CT.

And yes if it means you have to go through the arm to get to the CT because you have a poor angle or are a bad shot. Well that's just rewarding the pilot for doing a good job of protecting himself. That is what skill is on both sides of the engagement.

^ THIS

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 20 November 2013 - 02:42 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

M4NTiC0R3X, on 20 November 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

Oh, and 5 tons aside.... the battlemaster can do damn near anything the Awesome 9M can do.. only better.

Can you believe it? What... I can take almost the exact same loadout as my 9M AND PUT an AC/2 in the other arm...... {scrap} yes!

So 9m AWS is RA 1E, RT 1E, Head 1E, CT a combo of 2E or 2M or 1E 1M, LT 1E LA 1M

Um no.

BLR 1D sure 2E per ST and 1 on an arm is nice but zero missile slots and 3 ballistics so 1 heavy ballistic or 3 mg or a combo

1G Energy arm check, 3E per ST is very nice yes but only 1 missile and 2 ballistics

Closest is the 1S but still no, 1M per arm, 2M in the LT and 2E per Side torso, so 4 energy but only in the torso, It would drive completely differently with no energy in the arm.

Almost the same speed and more tons yes but how is this "almost the exact loadout" when you factor in heavy ballistics plus ammo?

[Vanguard319]

Been running a few matches in my Pretty Baby, and as far as I can tell, I'm not getting constantly hit in the CT now. I've even noticed that the mech can actually brawl now if required to do so. It's still somewhat at a disadvantage at closer ranges,, but it does take hits better than it did. I'd say the current hitboxes are a step in the right direction at least.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Vanguard319, on 20 November 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

Been running a few matches in my Pretty Baby, and as far as I can tell, I'm not getting constantly hit in the CT now. I've even noticed that the mech can actually brawl now if required to do so. It's still somewhat at a disadvantage at closer ranges,, but it does take hits better than it did. I'd say the current hitboxes are a step in the right direction at least.

Same here on the Awesome. It is better, but it is still somewhat of a glass cannon, but not any worse than the old Orion, Catapult, and Dragon.

[xengk]

Vanguard319, on 20 November 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:

Been running a few matches in my Pretty Baby, and as far as I can tell, I'm not getting constantly hit in the CT now. I've even noticed that the mech can actually brawl now if required to do so. It's still somewhat at a disadvantage at closer ranges,, but it does take hits better than it did. I'd say the current hitboxes are a step in the right direction at least.

Agree.
Manage to take the 8Q out for a spin before bed.
Of the 3 death I suffered in 7 matches;
1 CT cored with light damage on both side (reversed into a teammate and instant death while I was trapped)
1 lost an arm before CT cored, down to internals on side torso and yellow in legs.
1 lost a side and the connecting arm before CT cored, leg on the side of lost torso almost got blown off too.

Running STD engine, btw.

Edited by xengk, 20 November 2013 - 08:29 PM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Alistair Winter, on 19 November 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

The solution is to give the AWS some kind of chassis trait, like increased cooling ability. It's easier, cheaper and more fun than redesigning the whole mech.

I expect PGI will come around and do this in.... 2015.

The real solution is to make the damn thing less fat, "smaller".

Aka, go back and actually fix the damn mech. I'd rather have correctly scaled mechs than new mechs at this point.

[Mad Cow Jenkins]

RickySpanish, on 20 November 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

I don't have a big problem with the difference between the Awesome and Stalker profiles, because the Stalker has no horizontal arm movement range, it's probably the easiest Mech in the game to avoid at close range, so being able to chunk the centre torso from 60 degrees away might be a little unfair. I honestly think that the developers didn't want to scale the Awesome CT down too much, because they weren't entirely certain on the effect that would have with the chassis, so we've been left with this slightly awkward result.

My original intention was actually to show the victor, but the map did not allow it .... I find the angle to be good for judging mechs defensive abilities to "cover" itself by torso twisting and only show the none damaged part of it, that ability is also usefull for mid range ~400m duels, which occur quite often. I know that the AWS can twist alot more but it takes time and you loose focus of the opponent.

[Mad Cow Jenkins]

mwhighlander, on 20 November 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

The real solution is to make the damn thing less fat, "smaller".

Aka, go back and actually fix the damn mech. I'd rather have correctly scaled mechs than new mechs at this point.

Can´t remember who from said it PGI, but it has been stated that they are satisfied with the "look" of each mech in other words they will not scale them ever. It takes 1 year to change the hitboxes; a rescaling of the mech´s parts will need skin changes etc., retesting broking hitboxes. In the game industry it seems like it is just not considered hot enough to refine your product industry unless you are blizzard. I do think they have learned from their mistakes though because newer mechs have way smoother hitboxes that follow the natural line of the mech.

[YueFei]

Keeping the same Awesome model, they can just extend the arm hitboxes until the torso hitboxes are the same width as the Victor's torso hitboxes.

Make the pauldrons and "armpit" area of the Awesome torso count as the arm hitboxes, extending it as needed until the width of the torso matches the Victor's torso width.

That would make it tanky like the Centurion, but not overpowered compared to the Victor, because the Awesome will still have crappier DPS due to reliance on energy or missiles. If the Awesome is gonna need to wait a million years to cool off to shoot its weapons again, at least let it look away from the enemies and absorb damage into the arms, and when the arms are gone, allow the arm debris to mitigate damage to the torsos.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Mad Cow Jenkins, on 21 November 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

I do think they have learned from their mistakes though

No they clearly have not at all.

The latest medium mechs, Shawk and Kintaro, are BIGGER than almost all the heavy mechs. PGI is just too stubborn to fix them because they don't understand that a mechs size directly impacts its performance.

Hence why the Awesome will forever suck in this game.

[LastPaladin]

Alistair Winter, on 19 November 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

The solution is to give the AWS some kind of chassis trait, like increased cooling ability.

Or just increase the ghost heat cap to 3 for PPCs/Large Lasers on Awesomes. Which they should have done from the get go.

[BP Raven]

LastPaladin, on 21 November 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Or just increase the ghost heat cap to 3 for PPCs/Large Lasers on Awesomes. Which they should have done from the get go.

Personally, I would rather the AWS got a flat bonus to energy weps, but still have ghost heat personally. It was the increase in PPC heat that killed the 9M for me, i could manage the ghost heat by firing 2/1 all the time.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Monky, on 19 November 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

I'm not a fan of specific traits for individual mechs that affect weapons efficiency, as what else are you going to put on an awesome? energy or missiles is all you can choose from.

I would like to see individual skill trees for mechs, but leave weapons efficiencies/cooling efficiencies out at least until omni mechs make it to the scene so you can stylize them toward a certain weapons playstyle while still allowing meaningful choices.

Awesome mech is probably going to need some fundamental redesign in the visual model to be entirely realistic. It needs the man boobs to be moved inwards and upwards to provide a more compact CT, slim up the profile from the side slightly so the arms can actually be used to block. Right now, it is simply the worst of 'wide' and 'long' torsos (think atlas from the front and catapult from the side).

eh but it is cannon, mechs already have design quirks in this game and honestly pgi has messed things up so bad why shouldnt the awesome get some love? or any other barn yard door energy build?

[MadMaxMKII]

The changes of the AWS Hitboxes are very fine. I go with all AWS chassis since November 2012 and love them. With the last patch brawling became an option for the AWS. I noticed a nice spread of damage all across the mech. XL Engine in a 9M is still viable. three of my last four matches looked like this:
http://s7.directuplo...22/qnpdurfk.jpg
http://s7.directuplo...22/tro2zil2.jpg
http://s14.directupl...22/2sqjeap2.jpg

especially the last screen shows the potential. lost both arms, crit ct, heavy damage on legs and sidetorsos, got killed by loss of sidetorso!

[Mad Cow Jenkins]

mwhighlander, on 21 November 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

No they clearly have not at all.

The latest medium mechs, Shawk and Kintaro, are BIGGER than almost all the heavy mechs. PGI is just too stubborn to fix them because they don't understand that a mechs size directly impacts its performance.

Hence why the Awesome will forever suck in this game.

I was thinking more that they were getting better at placing the hitboxes, in newer mechs but it is really hard to know given that we have only a vague idea when they started on them. In regards to the Shawk it has some other advantages which might put it in a niche role (JJ, shoulder Balistic), but its true the kintaro is trash (and also had broken hitboxes to begin with).