106 replies to this topic

[Will9761]

Well...it was nice while it lasted. So once again, thank you PGI for restoring these unseen mechs back in the BT history. Now go make a Clan Pack for us.

Edited by Will9761, 02 December 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[Mr Blonde]

Will9761, on 20 November 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

My thought exactly, as soon as the Phoenix mechs are vaulted. PGI will be cooking up a Clan Package to cater to the Clan Community.

Well, we endured 3rd person (which was apparently never wanted or worked on by anyone, and yet somehow magically appeared prior to UI 2.0 or CW even got off the ground). Fortunately nobody uses it so the game was not ruined. However, allowing anyone and everyone to have Clan tech will be the stupidest possible thing to do to the game. All IS mechs they have worked so hard on (and that some of us have paid good money for) will immediately be rendered obsolete. Without the zellbrigen rules in play, the Clan mechs will utterly annihilate IS mechs, unless they "balance" and thus wreck the Clan mechs. Either way it's a loser.

[Heffay]

Mr Blonde, on 02 December 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

All IS mechs they have worked so hard on (and that some of us have paid good money for) will immediately be rendered obsolete. Without the zellbrigen rules in play, the Clan mechs will utterly annihilate IS mechs, unless they "balance" and thus wreck the Clan mechs.

They stated today that clan mechs will not follow the table top rules. They'll be quite different, which is good. Balance > lore.

[N0MAD]

Heffay, on 02 December 2013 - 09:01 PM, said:

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They stated today that clan mechs will not follow the table top rules. They'll be quite different, which is good. Balance > lore.

Yep clan Mechs that are not Clan Mechs, hell why not go straight to the dark age and have the Ag mechs fight it out with Pitch Forks, they should be able to balance pitch forks right?..

[Heffay]

N0MAD, on 02 December 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

Yep clan Mechs that are not Clan Mechs, hell why not go straight to the dark age and have the Ag mechs fight it out with Pitch Forks, they should be able to balance pitch forks right?..

Oh, good point. They should introduce clan mechs as per table top rules. That would be GREAT for the game. Brilliant.

[N0MAD]

Heffay, on 02 December 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Oh, good point. They should introduce clan mechs as per table top rules. That would be GREAT for the game. Brilliant.

Look im up for debate on this subject. Firstly i goto warn you im a Clansman, a Smoke Jaguar, have been since MW2, netmech, always a Jaguar. Im not a TT person.
Along with good gameplay alot of us expect a certain following of the MW lore. Its a rich lore of longstanding, so if included or followed to the best possible extent it wood add to the games quality.
But anyway..
The Clans were powerful, powerful war machines, thats lore, sure no hang on. There has to be a balance, there has to be pure an simple. But again if we look at lore the answer is there, very simple, numbers..
We clansmen relish the thought of wading into large numbers of IS scum..
The balance is in team size/weight, easy solution, no coding no BS. Make the clan mechs as they should be then balance the team size.
Test 10vs 12, 8v12, 6v12, no idea myself but cant be hard to trial.
Really i dont want a watered down clan mech, i want the powerful machine its meant to be.
Besides in reality along with its Pros the Clan Battlemech has its cons..Extra heat, less space,XL engine 3 critical features in design.
Anyways apart from that..
Real happy to hear about the private lobbys.
Im patching first time in alot of months.

[Here5y]

Dear PGI,

I was a good boy this year, at least most of the time …. okay sometimes. Doesn`t matter … I deserve to have access to the new Mechs before 17th December.

Thank you in advance,

Plizzken

[Cimarb]

N0MAD, on 03 December 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

Look im up for debate on this subject. Firstly i goto warn you im a Clansman, a Smoke Jaguar, have been since MW2, netmech, always a Jaguar. Im not a TT person.
Along with good gameplay alot of us expect a certain following of the MW lore. Its a rich lore of longstanding, so if included or followed to the best possible extent it wood add to the games quality.
But anyway..
The Clans were powerful, powerful war machines, thats lore, sure no hang on. There has to be a balance, there has to be pure an simple. But again if we look at lore the answer is there, very simple, numbers..
We clansmen relish the thought of wading into large numbers of IS scum..
The balance is in team size/weight, easy solution, no coding no BS. Make the clan mechs as they should be then balance the team size.
Test 10vs 12, 8v12, 6v12, no idea myself but cant be hard to trial.
Really i dont want a watered down clan mech, i want the powerful machine its meant to be.
Besides in reality along with its Pros the Clan Battlemech has its cons..Extra heat, less space,XL engine 3 critical features in design.
Anyways apart from that..
Real happy to hear about the private lobbys.
Im patching first time in alot of months.

You aren't a "clansman" any more than someone else is an elf. I'm glad you role play, but that doesn't have anything to do with this.

Clan weapons should be more powerful, I agree, but we already have ERLLs, XL engines, etc., which have their pros and cons. As the Clans are introduced, the weapons have to be as well, and as IS mechwarriors get Clan weapons, just like in lore, the tables will balance out. You can't just stagger the numbers of mechs involved in matches to balance things out because of that. Instead, you have to jump a few months of lore and make the technology available to everyone.

[Zerberus]

Cimarb, on 03 December 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Clan weapons should be more powerful, I agree, but we already have ERLLs, XL engines, etc., which have their pros and cons. As the Clans are introduced, the weapons have to be as well, and as IS mechwarriors get Clan weapons, just like in lore, the tables will balance out. You can't just stagger the numbers of mechs involved in matches to balance things out because of that. Instead, you have to jump a few months of lore and make the technology available to everyone.

Months? You mean about 2 years, right?

DC salvages /steals the first omnimechs Oct 3050 on Wolcott and needs just over 2 years to reverse engineer it and create th2 first retrofits and prototypes.

Edited by Zerberus, 03 December 2013 - 08:33 AM.

[Cimarb]

Zerberus, on 03 December 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Months? You mean about 2 years, right?

DC salvages /steals the first omnimechs Oct 3050 on Wolcott and needs just over 2 years to reverse engineer it and create th2 first retrofits and prototypes.

So where did ERLLs, ERPPCs, and XL engines come from? We have had those for years already... My point is they have to give up the "I'm Clan tough guy" posturing and accept that it is more important for the gameplay to be balanced than lore-perfect.

[Zerberus]

^^ Those items were Lostech and were rediscovered from the Helm Memory Core many years ago, they are not reverse engineered clan tech.

And I agree with your point... but just not to the point that some want to take it.

This is however both offtopic and beaten to death, no need to drag the horse in here

Edited by Zerberus, 03 December 2013 - 09:36 AM.

[Juvat]

Odanan, on 23 November 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Project Phoenix, wait for me!

Great revamp of the artwork but it is missing one iconic element to it

Odanan, on 21 November 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

Wait! You are missing one more Reinforcement Pack!

Wished this was the case as I would be all over it like many others!

[Odanan]

Cimarb, on 03 December 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

You aren't a "clansman" any more than someone else is an elf. I'm glad you role play, but that doesn't have anything to do with this.

Agreed.

Cimarb, on 03 December 2013 - 08:21 AM, said:

Clan weapons should be more powerful, I agree, but we already have ERLLs, XL engines, etc., which have their pros and cons. As the Clans are introduced, the weapons have to be as well, and as IS mechwarriors get Clan weapons, just like in lore, the tables will balance out. You can't just stagger the numbers of mechs involved in matches to balance things out because of that. Instead, you have to jump a few months of lore and make the technology available to everyone.

IS pilots don't need (or should) have access to Clan tech. Period.

Balance for Clan tech? Just make 16 IS vs. 10 Clanners matches. Just like that.

[Cimarb]

Odanan, on 03 December 2013 - 10:36 AM, said:

IS pilots don't need (or should) have access to Clan tech. Period.

Balance for Clan tech? Just make 16 IS vs. 10 Clanners matches. Just like that.

Short term you are correct, but you have to look at it long term. Maybe if they locked clan tech out so IS chassis could not equip them, that would work, but what if your group has a mixed bunch of IS and Clan? You are no longer allowed to queue with them, and we all know that wouldn't work.

What COULD work, I think, is if clan tech added an ELO penalty. I know, I know, ELO is already horrid and probably doesn't even work, but the concept is the same whether it is ELO, tonnage, etc. Just add an ELO/tonnage penalty to any clan mech, or clan equipped mech. Once tonnage limits are in place, this would be pretty easy to do, actually. You could even add the "effective tonnage" to each weapon/mech so you could tell how your loadout changes affect it in the mechlab.

[Odanan]

Cimarb, on 04 December 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

Short term you are correct, but you have to look at it long term. Maybe if they locked clan tech out so IS chassis could not equip them, that would work, but what if your group has a mixed bunch of IS and Clan? You are no longer allowed to queue with them, and we all know that wouldn't work.

Good point.
But it is either that or throw all Clan tech in the garbage bin. There is no way to "balance" Clan XL Engines, Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous, for instance. (not to mention lighter, more powerful, smaller and with better range weapons)

[Odanan]

Adding a heavy ELO penalty to Clan mechs would work to balance the match, but it won't stop the "power rush". (not to mention exclusive all-Clan mechs teams in 12-men)

[Tharnus]

Bringing this thread back on topic I find is completely messed up that the staggered release of the saber reinforcements does not equal a staggered end date for the package. I have already email a not so friendly customer service person who clear did not give a damn about me or my position (not net whilst moving house ad was 2 hours, 2 HOURS!!! late for upgrading my overlord phoenix package).

Guys your support is abysmal and I'd post the email here but you would probably remove it despite my polite etiquette (through gritted teeth)

[Cimarb]

Odanan, on 04 December 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

Good point.
But it is either that or throw all Clan tech in the garbage bin. There is no way to "balance" Clan XL Engines, Endo Steel and Ferro Fibrous, for instance. (not to mention lighter, more powerful, smaller and with better range weapons)
...
Adding a heavy ELO penalty to Clan mechs would work to balance the match, but it won't stop the "power rush". (not to mention exclusive all-Clan mechs teams in 12-men)

Tonnage limits would still apply in both of those examples, though. The problem with tonnage modifiers is that it would have to be a significant modifier and, with the last stated tonnage spread from PGI (240-480), I don't think it would make enough of a difference. If you can field a team twice as heavy as your opponents, for no penalty, no amount of tonnage modifiers or restrictions are going to matter.

[Tharnus]

Ps why hasn't this thread been moderated for it's off topic-ness?

[Nutlink]

I wouldn't mind lore-friendly Clans, as long as they had to abide by the exact same rules. This means bidding, one vs one, going scorched earth in CW, inability to use things like coolshot and air strikes, etc etc.

I'd love to see something like this:
On any match involving a Clan, both sides can see what mechs are on each side, but not who is piloting them. The Clanners (preferably outnumbered) decide who is going to get to take on what targets. These are the only ones that they can earn any income or XP from. Any mech that they damage or destroy that is NOT one of their dedicated targets subtracts XP and income from what they do have. The only exception to this is if ALL of their targets are destroyed and there are OpFor mechs that are not claimed due to a teammates death. At this point they can engage the unclaimed target.

On the flip side, IS mechs should be given artillery, airstrikes, and possibly even a place to rearm. Between the ability to focus fire without penalty, having more mechs fielded, and additional support systems it could be a somewhat viable game mode. This can be made even more evident with the ability to implement a scorched earth policy for worlds that any Clan might be about to take over - destroy factories and support structures to slow them down, where as the Clans cannot do this. Clanners would be more likely to spread themselves thin trying to win more worlds and stop IS factories, while IS factories could not be used for Clanners, forcing them to rebuild AND making them tempting targets for IS factions.

Of course this would require TONS of testing and would most likely never appear, but I can still dream.

That being said, I'm just happy to get my Griffin and Wolverine in a couple of weeks.

Edited by BOTA49, 04 December 2013 - 12:01 PM.