167 replies to this topic

[Mudhutwarrior]

I get it and disagree. You don't see pro operators using smartphones while on the trigger. They use Voice. Nothing faster.

Moot anyways as voip is coming in Jan according to PGI .

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 December 2013 - 05:09 AM, said:

I get it and disagree. You don't see pro operators using smartphones while on the trigger. They use Voice. Nothing faster.

Moot anyways as voip is coming in Jan according to PGI .

I look forward to the new excuses come Jan then!

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 December 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

I look forward to the new excuses come Jan then!

No excuses. I do well either way. My issue is mainly how we dump on new players and how easily we could help them learn at a faster rate. I am more concerned with increasing the player base in the long run. I have pointed out before how out of 9 people I got to join all 9 left disgusted with the grind and how little chance they had.

Kind of surprised that you would use another proword attack like "excuses" you know as well as I do how steep the climb is.

[Roland]

Where did PGI say they were putting VOIP in?

In Russ' post, he says that the only addition in Jan. is Cockpit Glass... which seems so trivial that I can't even understand why it would be on the dev timeline.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Roland, on 17 December 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Where did PGI say they were putting VOIP in?

In Russ' post, he says that the only addition in Jan. is Cockpit Glass... which seems so trivial that I can't even understand why it would be on the dev timeline.

Try to find it. I was ingame and an IGP guy was on. I asked him and he said it was coming with UI and gave us a link. Few weeks ago in the announcements.

[Roland]

Yeah, I'm not seeing it anywhere. Please post a link if you can find it... I looked, and see no reference to it.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Roland, on 17 December 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

Yeah, I'm not seeing it anywhere. Please post a link if you can find it... I looked, and see no reference to it.

Read a bunch of posts so far with little luck. Really wish pgi would not be so damn vague about everything. That's what I am getting from my research so far.

Got it....

"Players can select and ready [1] `Mech from their DropShip and launch into a match with it. The DropShip will feature up to [8] slots and needs to be preconfigured before a player joins the ready screen. A player cannot add a `Mech to the the DropShip in the ready screen. The player will start with [2] DropShip slots and be able to put any owned or Trail `Mech into a slot. Players can customize add or remove consumables to their currently readied `Mech. If a player does not have any consumables, they can purchase them with CB or MC.

Players can chat with other players via several channels including group, All, Team, Lance, and Command. All will go to anyone in the match, Team will go to your team, Lance to your lance, and Command is only available if the player is a lance or company commander."

http://mwomercs.com/...t-match-screen/

Edited by Mudhutwarrior, 17 December 2013 - 09:35 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 December 2013 - 09:07 AM, said:

No excuses. I do well either way. My issue is mainly how we dump on new players and how easily we could help them learn at a faster rate. I am more concerned with increasing the player base in the long run. I have pointed out before how out of 9 people I got to join all 9 left disgusted with the grind and how little chance they had.

Kind of surprised that you would use another proword attack like "excuses" you know as well as I do how steep the climb is.

I wasn't talking about you Mud... I quoted you cause you made the pertinent post. I do look forward to VOiP but I just feel it will shift the excuses to the next "reason" someone isn't winning like they think they should be.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 December 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[Roland]

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 December 2013 - 09:28 AM, said:

Read a bunch of posts so far with little luck. Really wish pgi would not be so damn vague about everything. That's what I am getting from my research so far.

Got it....

"Players can select and ready [1] `Mech from their DropShip and launch into a match with it. The DropShip will feature up to [8] slots and needs to be preconfigured before a player joins the ready screen. A player cannot add a `Mech to the the DropShip in the ready screen. The player will start with [2] DropShip slots and be able to put any owned or Trail `Mech into a slot. Players can customize add or remove consumables to their currently readied `Mech. If a player does not have any consumables, they can purchase them with CB or MC.

Players can chat with other players via several channels including group, All, Team, Lance, and Command. All will go to anyone in the match, Team will go to your team, Lance to your lance, and Command is only available if the player is a lance or company commander."

http://mwomercs.com/...t-match-screen/

I'm not seeing anything there about VOIP though. It seems like it's just talking about sectioning out the chat interface.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 December 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

I wasn't talking about you Mud... I quoted you cause you made the pertinent post. I do look forward to VOiP but I just feel it will shift the excuses to the next "reason" someone isn't winning like they think they should be.

I agree, There will always be nerf warriors around. I assumed it was part of the progression of learning as it was for me but seeing how many experienced players come here crying for nerfs tells me its a fixed percentage of population just like addicts in the real world.

Roland, on 17 December 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

I'm not seeing anything there about VOIP though. It seems like it's just talking about sectioning out the chat interface.

I see what your saying. If it wasn't for the IGP guy in game I would think so too. He was adamant in game voip is coming.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Mudhutwarrior, on 17 December 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

I see what your saying. If it wasn't for the IGP guy in game I would think so too. He was adamant in game voip is coming.

The post you quoted above is a feature of the Launch Module, the first phase of CW, which according to the new timeline, will be coming out in April. And to be honest, the post doesn't actually say "voice chat", just "chat", which could be the same text chat we have now.

Edited by Sarsaparilla Kid, 17 December 2013 - 01:07 PM.

[Iskareot]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 December 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

I look forward to the new excuses come Jan then!

Thats easy if you are not premade - here let me show you.

Premade = 99% of the time, the team has the same goal, also knows what mechs each other has and knows where and has planned and previously planned a strat and knows where to be and what to be focusing on.

Premade= Not only has Commo BUT KNOWS who they are speaking to and has spoke to probably for some time. (See above for cohesiveness of habit that much like "any" team will have some normal feel to it.

Premade= 99% of the time they work together and listen.. also converge on the same target if told and with the same game plan in mind (see above)... thus giving a huge overall advantage.

(NOW THESE are just some... pretty big ones but some pretty logical easy ones for anyone that has ever played a game to understand)

PUG= Maybe 50% of the people have the same idea out of the chute, also... Some pugs do not listen.. i.e. have their own agenda.. are new, or are testing things... also lets not forget want to be the hero -- which of course is not against any rule and happens all the time if you are not premade (which of course they all know it is a team that wins things and as stated above are on the same page)

PUG= Not a soul will know or pay enough attention to who is speaking and or if that person has a clue as to how to play or what team play is. In fact, while you may think it is good... all this means is some 14 year old kid can actually call out movements into straight death. SO in fact, some can listen some won't some will not trust them.. some will ignore said person in coms and worse.. it could just blow up and be full of stupid people talking about **** that has nothing to do with the game because there will be no rule to say (ONLY TALK ABOUT MECH STUFF PERIOD)... we all know this.

PUG= With no PRIOR organization these pug vs premade drops if no choice is given will be the same slaughter they can and are now. Again, going into a drop as a team vs being made into a temporary one on the fly and people all expecting to work well together is a joke.
Anyone that has a normal job in real life knows this. As for the game it is a very accurate statement to just say ... Pug VS Premade is an imbalance that is a fact, not an opinion. It is not hard to see this.

NOW the question will be is there enough people to let premades fight premades and pugs fight pugs.. At the rate we are losing people I think that should be a concern over any of this unless these choices help get back people or keep the playerbase from leaving.

Now granted I have only played team based games since UO and Quake online but the mere fact that a team that is working together with the same goal on a team does better then a solo pug player... period. (Note) better --

[Joseph Mallan]

Iskareot, on 18 December 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

Now granted I have only played team based games since UO and Quake online but the mere fact that a team that is working together with the same goal on a team does better then a solo pug player... period. (Note) better --

But will not stop from those who lose from finding an excuse for their failure to complete the game successfully. Its not about how Comms will help, its about how much people fight the fact that they are going to win a lot of the time. PLay 100 matches, win 51 lose 49 and watch folks scream cause this, that, or the other is stopping them from winning.

I play both Pre made and PUG. My personal K/D is right about even between my Best PUG and Joe. I lose only 3%-5% more as a PUG. The better team wins.

[Iskareot]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 December 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

But will not stop from those who lose from finding an excuse for their failure to complete the game successfully. Its not about how Comms will help, its about how much people fight the fact that they are going to win a lot of the time. PLay 100 matches, win 51 lose 49 and watch folks scream cause this, that, or the other is stopping them from winning.

I play both Pre made and PUG. My personal K/D is right about even between my Best PUG and Joe. I lose only 3%-5% more as a PUG. The better team wins.

But now you just forgot to take into account how much you have played MWO. What you are forgetting is that no matter what things will never be PERFECTLY even. However, there is some pretty easy normal things that can be done to make things generally more balanced. Again, I see both sides.. I have dropped premade and {Scrap} what a different game ... it honestly is a whole other monster. The most important thing I think is that we do NOT TAKE away from either type of game. Allowing both choice and the ability to drop how you want between the two. I do not think the ELO system is working the best nor the MM system but then again none of us know the EXACT details as to what plays into that. Maybe if we did this would be easier to discuss.

[RiotHero]

All of the four man teams I've ever played with just camp 200 meters from the spawn until the rest of the team is dead then move out for easy kills. ScrubWarrior 101

[Joseph Mallan]

Iskareot, on 18 December 2013 - 07:56 AM, said:

But now you just forgot to take into account how much you have played MWO. What you are forgetting is that no matter what things will never be PERFECTLY even. However, there is some pretty easy normal things that can be done to make things generally more balanced. Again, I see both sides.. I have dropped premade and {Scrap} what a different game ... it honestly is a whole other monster. The most important thing I think is that we do NOT TAKE away from either type of game. Allowing both choice and the ability to drop how you want between the two. I do not think the ELO system is working the best nor the MM system but then again none of us know the EXACT details as to what plays into that. Maybe if we did this would be easier to discuss.

This is what I normally try to get a Iskareot. I know I am getting more and more grumpy but I just am getting tired of reading nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf. Would having comms in game help PUGs? Probably. But I don't think it would help enough o make a big difference against players who drop together 3-5 times a week. Is a team game played by teams, and the thing that I see is that the best team wins and the better that winning team is the greater the victory.

Then I read time after time that that isn't fair, it isn't right, take something away from them that I don't want to use! It boggles my mind man. You've been around man have you ever read a post from me that asks for anything to be taken from the other players? Have I supported giving myself a Buff like more armor for assaults? I want a match to leave me with white knuckles and a distinct fear of "THAT" (IYKWIM)! I don't have that. I haven't ever had it in a year playing this game. It makes me sad.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 December 2013 - 08:53 AM.

[KharnZor]

RiotHero, on 18 December 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

All of the four man teams I've ever played with just camp 200 meters from the spawn until the rest of the team is dead then move out for easy kills. ScrubWarrior 101

[Lykaon]

Mellifluer, on 13 December 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

lol sadly i would say TS is a crutch, like how seismic is a crutch, in fact lets try to list all the crutches and why they are such

TS - Is a crutch
1 because it disregards the realism of ECM on the battlefield
2 it obsoletes whatever the C3 may eventually be
3 not everyone uses TS/skype. those who do use TS over those who don't, have arbitrarily decided to change the game rules without the consent of any other players then those on their own team (trying to "stack the odds" IE unsportsmanlike behavior)
4 the best teams and players don't need to speak or even communicate, they just know where and how to move. they move as one unit with a single mind, each pilot already knowing what their team is going to do, what they need to do and is expected of them from the team.
5 It leaves you untrained for reason number 4. you become dependent on TS and your teammates instead of just knowing and doing. noobs need to be herded, veterans know what to do.

3pv (not that i actually even see anyone using it lol) is a crutch
1 it fools you with its "snap to" aiming mechanic, it leaves you untrained in 1st person.
2 it encourages players to use it as a sort of wall hack to peak over and and around obstacles

Seismic - is a crutch
1 its basically a wall hack, its nature (and mode of use now) encourages players to group together, stand still and use high pinpoint alphas. waiting like a mugger in a dark alley.
2 it makes you dependent on using it to see around corners and watching your back, thus leaving you untrained if you are use seismic consistently.

Cool-shot - is a crutch
1 because it gives the false perception that your mech now has "burst mode" where it can spam its weapons and prevent what would normally be an untimely shutdown.
2 it costs money every time you use it, thus ensuring you will have to USE it MORE and play MORE matches WITH cool-shot to make up the money that is spent on the cool-shots.... its a losing proposition as far as gaining money and it doesn't really give you anything more then one big alpha and you will still shutdown from time to time, you just prolong it one or two more shots. is a kill worth 40,000-50,000 cbills? i leave that to the reader
3 you become dependent on its ability to inflate your heat tolerances if you have to use it every match, leaving you untrained without it.

arty and airstrike - are both crutches
1 while I'm sure you can actually make your money back with a good shot that scores a kill or two and a bunch of component destruction, i also think the odds of making ones money back are not in your favor
2 it encourages the spamming of strikes to "weaken" the enemy by just being crafty enough to pop the smoke just outside their FOV.
3 high cost per round, easy to use but relatively little chance of making your money back off just the strike. meaning its cost will eat into at least some of your earnings, thus encouraging your whole team use strikes en-mass to maximize their effect.
4 reason 3 leaves you untrained without strikes

UAV - i thought mechs had satellite linkups? will say no more

advanced gryo - to me this is supposed to be a physically different gyro that is akin to standard armor vs FF or a standard vs XL engine, it swaps your old gyro for this fancy new gyro. so to me the module is stupid but i use it anyway .

Hill climb - should not exist. mechs should just be climb hills like they are supposed to anyway. who ever heard of an atlas in cannon getting stuck on something stupid like a small rock/outcropping or a vehicle that it should just crush outright? sadly i use it anyway because its better then getting stuck on EVERY rock .

all of the rest of the modules serve legitimate purposes for the most part. i do think there are still issues like lrms needing art+bap+tag+sensor decay to even work properly 80% of the time (the remainder is nubs that stand still in the open).

advances sensor doesn't see far enough in my opinion.

similarly i think advanced zoom should have a variable "scoping" like effect instead of just being a "third level of pixelated zoom". i mean its supposed to be "advanced zoom" not "pixel zoom".

target gathering info needs to be faster for me to consider it over something truly useful like advanced gryo/hill climb or target decay.

never used the cap module so idk.

point being all the mods consumables, TS all that its all about stacking the odds. its not that anyone wants to "force" everyone else to play the same way. its that we want the options to play with similar minded pilots. for like say an all stock mode with no modules, pilot tree disabled.
or lets say a no consumable mode but modules and pilot tree allowed?
everything allowed?
that's all you know, real lobbies with custom variables. lets be able to turn UP the heat on terra therma, or make frozen city more akin to the ice fortress in mech 3 a real meat locker.

MY counter points.

Team Speak...

1) citing realism of ECM on a battle field when we have our very unrealistic ECM mechanics is a hollow argument.You also fail to take into account ECM defeating communications techniques like optical transmission or tight beamed microwave etc.

2) Obsolescence of a non existent feature is a pointless argument.There are no comms provided thus using comms is not obsolescence of a feature it's an independent feature.

3) Those who choose to not use toosl appropriate to the task should not blame those who do.If someone chooses to use a rock in place of a hammer to build a house it's their choice,I however will continue to use hammers they work better.

Seeing how on several occations I have been present whenthe game developers were playing and using a public team speak server I do not think the use of such a tool is unsportsman like.It is no different than my use of a competitive machine on a solid internet connection.Should we all degrade our performace characteristics to match the players with the most out of date hardware or worst internet?

4) Really? so not being psychic and using communication as a tool to attain victory is a crutch?Do you have any idea how long it takes to build a report with a team on that level? do you even know that even when I am playing with team mates I know very well something unexpected will occur and need to be communicated.This statement is pure fantasy so has no bearing on normal players who use voip.

5) Actually my unit and several others I know of regularly perform "silent" drops to train to anticipate actions of team mates and to be prepared for a TS server failure during a match.But guess what? learning to anticipate is augmented by actual communication it is not a replace for communication.

3rd person view...

I believe your perception of a "snap to aiming" mechanic is actually a camera depth perception issue that causes the POV in 3rd to occationally snap to a tighter angle especially when the point of aim is radicaly shifted.

As to your second point you are dead on correct.Trying to use 3rd person view as an improved viewing mechanism is a bit of the cheesy side.But anyone can do it.As such it's just another potential tool available to anyone.I am not all that concerned.

Seismic...

1) no big deal,ECM does this anyhow at least with seismic they need to stand still instead of dragging a stealth bubble around with them.

2) you assume that the players in question are so hyper focused on using seismic that they are not even looking out the cockpit windows anymore.Seismic is a tool if used correctly you benifit.

Coolshot...

Well my opinion on this is it was probably a bad idea to add into the game in the first place.The only mechanic we currently have that directly influences damage out put over time is heat.any item that helps circumvent this is probably not a good thing.

Artillery/Air strikes...

1) The assumption being made are that the artillery/air strikes are exclusivley being used in Pugs by pugs and not coordinated in a 12 v 12 or used in up coming CW matches were a win may be worth more than the C-bill earnings.

2) Also encourages clumps of intractable enemy gunlines to disperse thus changing an unfavorable situation to a more favorable one by displacing a way to comfy enemy.

3) isn't this the same point you made with section one?

4) Untrained implies that exclusive use of artillery is being implimented without support of actual mech piloting and gunnery skills above those needed to deploy smoke.If players do this they are doing it wrong and will learn from this mistake the first time they face a highly mobile enemy force.

Much of your perspective on the other modules are valid opinions based on your play style so I reserve no comments.

[Lykaon]

RiotHero, on 18 December 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

All of the four man teams I've ever played with just camp 200 meters from the spawn until the rest of the team is dead then move out for easy kills. ScrubWarrior 101

Or in reality land...

Any group that does this is lit up hardcore by 2 vs 1 odds because they didn't participate early on allowing the enemy to gain a significant advantage with a 12 vs 8 battle.

I think you are mistaking dead weight for premades.

I have never seen a 4 man ever do this and I have been here since early closed beta.I have literally been in thousands of matches.Never seen it.

[Lykaon]

Galenit, on 15 December 2013 - 02:20 AM, said:

Integrated voice will not do that much everyone says, you miss some points here:

1. premades often on their own ts-server. Will they use the build in ts? If not, same problem as now.
2. Stupid kids i dont like to read in chat, i dont want to hear! A lot of older people will mute the integrated voice.

What would help all players is an integradet 3keyfastchat and a better battlemap with easy markers and orders.
Look at tribes 2 for this and copy there battlemap. Sure its nearly 15 years old, but i havent seen a better quickchat and battlemap until today.

Premades would likely use both internal comms and public comms.Internal comms are good for conveying tactics that are known to the premade but would require too much explaination on the public comms.The public comms would be used to update intel for the whole team and convey basic tactical information.

MUTE! just mute any annoying jerk then add them to your ignore list.They are not likely to be a team player and won't be supplying any useful info anyhow.

As for players choosing to not use a public chat system,well this is no different from those players who refuse to use TS now.They refuse to be as effective as possible and as such are not team oriented players and would be happyer playing some other non team oriented game.

If I hired a bunch of people to build me a house and 11 of them use nails and hammers and one insists on using twine and rocks I know who is the first to get fired.