167 replies to this topic

[Almeras]

I'm finding the 4man queue horrid the MM seems to feed me endlessly to the ggclose ultra tryhard 4mans.

It seems as long as I'm grouped with anyone else I'll be thrown into the grinder for these guys to get a game. I know I'm probably close to some of them in ELO but I don't always wish to play as a tryhard (I'd rather keep that for the 12mans than trolling pugs)

The effect that's happening is I can't group if I want to level a mech or take anything non heavy/assault meta. If I join a group which has green pilots or casual mechs the MM will serve them to the Highlander/Jager/Cata rolf ggclose train and they'll be smashed until they decided to call it a night. It means I can't just grab a pick up game with friends I've play with for over a year and a half.

The result effect is I'm now disaffected with the 4man queue I loath playing it. I stick to the 12man drops doesn't feel as predetermined outcome. But 12mans don't happen every night so I'm forced to play less.

I'd rather just have 100% random matches balanced on tonnage (while ring fencing the under 25game accounts into their own pool) for the 4man queue it means in any given night you get a mix of everyone at some point. Than the artificial balancing currently with seems not to take into account all the factors that make a balanced match just that X has to be matched with Y(or whatever is next closest)

[Alexandrix]

Really,I think they should artificially inflate group ELO's.For example,when you are solo,let's say your ELO is 1500...when you join a group your ELO is increased by a percentage,whatever works.So in a group your ELO would be,say,2200.
This way groups would mostly play with groups,and solo's would mostly be playing with solo's.
That would be a good way to "split" the player base and make matches more even without actually splitting the players or making a separate queue.

Of course,so few people are playing MWO at this point,I just don't think there's much anyone can do.The ELO needs a larger amount of participants to make matches more even,plain and simple.That's why I still see noobs in trial mechs pitted against the meta humping ppc/ac20 one button warriors.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

One solution would be to give all different 'Mechs individual Elo score... For example if I tryhard noskill myself to higher Elo with the Highlanders, the HGN would have that higher score. But when I take the unmastered Battlemaster, it would have decreased Elo score. That way if I succeed with the Battlemaster (and btw, I don't, lol) the chassis' Elo would rise naturally.

And yeah, starting to grind XP to a new 'mech can be very frustrating...

[TexAce]

haha ask me. My ELO in heavies and assaults seems so high now that I have constantly to play against Kaffeeangst, Wispy and their crew who mostly drop as 4-man. And I'm only pugging all the time.
And no way to go back -.-

Edited by TexAss, 22 November 2013 - 05:19 PM.

[Hexenhammer]

Not as much as seeing 4 Heavy Metals on the same team pop tarting the entire match.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Quote

Elo - Crushing 4Man Fun For Any One Else?

No.

[Jman5]

IV Amen, on 22 November 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

One solution would be to give all different 'Mechs individual Elo score... For example if I tryhard noskill myself to higher Elo with the Highlanders, the HGN would have that higher score. But when I take the unmastered Battlemaster, it would have decreased Elo score. That way if I succeed with the Battlemaster (and btw, I don't, lol) the chassis' Elo would rise naturally.

And yeah, starting to grind XP to a new 'mech can be very frustrating...

You can't subdivide Elo too many times before it becomes meaningless. While it may work for you, 90% of the playerbase would constantly be outside their intended Elo simply because they haven't played enough games in a particular mech to stabilize it.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Jman5, on 22 November 2013 - 05:34 PM, said:

90% of the playerbase would constantly be outside their intended Elo

I think (of course there's no knowledge) that most of the players have about 1:1 W/L.

[Jman5]

IV Amen, on 22 November 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

I think (of course there's no knowledge) that most of the players have about 1:1 W/L.

Wins and losses are not created equal in the eyes of the great and powerful Elo. Without getting too detailed, when a game is created, the matchmaker compares two teams Elo and predicts the outcome of the match. If the outcome goes as predicted Elo scores don't change much if at all. It's only when one team beats expectations that the Elo goes up or down. for both teams. So you can have a 1:1 Win Loss Ratio and still have a high Elo. You could also have a 2:1 W/L ratio and have a low Elo. It just depends how you do when it counts.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Wow...why feed their ego's?

Let me do some of their work for them.

Get better...run with a better skilled group. Don't try to level or run non 12 meta mechs.

Take an azz whooping and move on.

[Mycrus]

As a 4-man you need to work with your pugs...

You can easily get 12-0 wafflestomps
http://mwomercs.com/...ith-their-pugs/

Ignore your pugs, don't communicate and no matter how hard you carry your team you will still lose..
http://mwomercs.com/...8-carry-harder/

[Amsro]

Team Chat is OP.

Remember that you can't win every match and sometimes the other team is just a little more organized.

[Commissar Aku]

Amsro, on 22 November 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Team Chat is OP.

Remember that you can't win every match and sometimes the other team is just a little more organized.

That makes TS Godly

[Flapdrol]

Just tank your elo by running ridiculous builds, like a gaussraven or 3x ac5 hunchback. Keeps the game fun.

[FenrisUlf]

Amsro, on 22 November 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Team Chat is OP.

Remember that you can't win every match and sometimes the other team is just a little more organized.

problem is most of the time pugs dont read TS they just move like mindless zombies.

[Blurry]

premades should have your q.
let pugs be pugs

and you can do whatever you want in your q.

Sorry but I have had really bad experiences with arrogant premades and the tirades that come out of them.
I would rather solo q and pug life away from those leet players.

[Tolkien]

Almeras, on 22 November 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

I'm finding the 4man queue horrid the MM seems to feed me endlessly to the ggclose ultra tryhard 4mans.

It seems as long as I'm grouped with anyone else I'll be thrown into the grinder for these guys to get a game. I know I'm probably close to some of them in ELO but I don't always wish to play as a tryhard (I'd rather keep that for the 12mans than trolling pugs)

The effect that's happening is I can't group if I want to level a mech or take anything non heavy/assault meta. If I join a group which has green pilots or casual mechs the MM will serve them to the Highlander/Jager/Cata rolf ggclose train and they'll be smashed until they decided to call it a night. It means I can't just grab a pick up game with friends I've play with for over a year and a half.

The result effect is I'm now disaffected with the 4man queue I loath playing it. I stick to the 12man drops doesn't feel as predetermined outcome. But 12mans don't happen every night so I'm forced to play less.

I'd rather just have 100% random matches balanced on tonnage (while ring fencing the under 25game accounts into their own pool) for the 4man queue it means in any given night you get a mix of everyone at some point. Than the artificial balancing currently with seems not to take into account all the factors that make a balanced match just that X has to be matched with Y(or whatever is next closest)

I miss the matchmaking in MPBT3025 where each team saw what the other was taking and would only agree to drop when both sides agreed it looked about right. We even got in to situations where one side would win a few matches decisively and then would have to 'bid' lower tonnage to get a drop going again. It was against the fluff to have IS pilots bidding like that but it went miles in terms of making sure everyone felt they were getting a fair shake rather than being jerked around by a capricious and unstable matchmaker.

Better still, if you got tired of playing against the people in the dropship/lobby, you could go to another dropship on the same planet, or a different planet altogether!



It wasn't perfect but when comparing the devil's I have known, I choose this particular devil.

[Mawai]

LOL ... the only issue here is the MM trying to create balanced matches.

If there is a pre-made on one team it tries to put one on the other. Simple. It can't tell when a player is trying to "play hard" or "play casual" ... it can't tell when you are driving a sub-standard mech or fit. It tries to balance ELO, groups and overall tonnage (and even that may be by weight class as opposed to specific tonnage ... which is generally broken for lights at least).

If you want a psychic matchmaker that takes everyone's mood, state of mind, intoxicant level, mech, tonnage, fit, past record (ELO) into account then you will need to look elsewhere.

Can the match-maker be better? YES!

As mentioned:
1) They could and should have separate ELO values for group and solo play. They already do ELO by weight class ... adding a second ELO for each weight class would not add that much complexity (unless their initial code design of the feature was incredibly limited). (This would not address the OP's issue though).
2) If you drop in a pre-made see if you can get the rest of your team to go along with a plan. If your team goes solo ... your side will likely lose and it doesn't matter what sort of pre-made is on the other team.
3) I drop solo all the time. I get added to matches with all sorts of pre-mades. I both win and lose ... if you are losing all the time then I might suggest that the problem is something you are doing wrong and not the matchmaker.

[Tolkien]

Mawai, on 23 November 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

LOL ... the only issue here is the MM trying to create balanced matches.

If there is a pre-made on one team it tries to put one on the other. Simple. It can't tell when a player is trying to "play hard" or "play casual" ... it can't tell when you are driving a sub-standard mech or fit. It tries to balance ELO, groups and overall tonnage (and even that may be by weight class as opposed to specific tonnage ... which is generally broken for lights at least).

If you want a psychic matchmaker that takes everyone's mood, state of mind, intoxicant level, mech, tonnage, fit, past record (ELO) into account then you will need to look elsewhere.

Can the match-maker be better? YES!

As mentioned:
1) They could and should have separate ELO values for group and solo play. They already do ELO by weight class ... adding a second ELO for each weight class would not add that much complexity (unless their initial code design of the feature was incredibly limited). (This would not address the OP's issue though).
2) If you drop in a pre-made see if you can get the rest of your team to go along with a plan. If your team goes solo ... your side will likely lose and it doesn't matter what sort of pre-made is on the other team.
3) I drop solo all the time. I get added to matches with all sorts of pre-mades. I both win and lose ... if you are losing all the time then I might suggest that the problem is something you are doing wrong and not the matchmaker.

I have no affiliation with the original poster but wish to play devil's advocate... what's that... you can see our clan tags? Aw {Scrap}!
... let me start over....

I'm in the same outfit as Almeras and I can vouch that he knows exactly what he's doing. The problem he is complaining about is that from all we can tell, the matchmaker is considering the top player on a 4 man to be the skill of the 4 man... it does not seem to be averaging over the group!

So for example if he teams up with some of the other all stars they are fine, but if he brings a general scrubadub like myself along we're in for a hellish match most times.

Does that make more sense?

TLDR Matchmaker seems to take ELO of best player on a 1-4 man group as being the ELO of the group as a whole.

[Ngamok]

You should do as me and drink on Fridays and play the game lit up and trash your ELO some. And some Mondays depending on who is playing Monday Night Football.