181 replies to this topic

[Alaskan Nobody]

Modo44, on 19 May 2014 - 09:02 PM, said:

Like MWO does not provide a near-vertical ice wall already? Come on.

Compared to a lot of other games?

IE: DOTA or TF2 which do not even try to put the newbies and the veterans in separate ques?

Let me put it this way - I see a lot of new players coming in - the ones I see picking so called "strong" chassis....
Learn little and frequently come to the forums to rage.



The ones who pick chassis like the Hunchback....
Learn to protect their weakspots and play their strengths.


Now tell me - is the Hunchback THAT much weaker than the Shadowhawk?
Given relatively new (or just plain bad) players on both sides of the field I laugh at anyone who answers yes.

[Modo44]

Shar Wolf, on 19 May 2014 - 09:07 PM, said:

Now tell me - is the Hunchback THAT much weaker than the Shadowhawk?

Yes. We are not talking a good vs bad pilot situation. With equal skill, the differences are obvious.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Modo44, on 19 May 2014 - 09:24 PM, said:

Yes. We are not talking a good vs bad pilot situation. With equal skill, the differences are obvious.

At high level play - yes.


At the level I see daily playing?

FAT. CHANCE.

Edit: To the point of:
Let me laugh my face off at the very idea.


And in case you are wondering - no it is not always because the Hunch is a better pilot.
I see a lot of relatively crappy pilots in Hunchbacks kicking people I know are not crappy pilots in Shadowhawks.

And yes - I have little outright evidence to support it,

On the other hand - the only evidence YOU have is:
1) MATHZ
2) The shadowhawk is better because the pilots win more - and I know they are equal pilots because the shadowhawk wins more!!!1! Because MATHZ!!1!

Edited by Shar Wolf, 19 May 2014 - 09:33 PM.

[xMintaka]

Mycrus, on 19 May 2014 - 06:46 PM, said:

For new players I would recommend

Locusts
Trebuchet
Dragons
Awesomes

If you can successfully pilot that you would have learned to be a very good pilot and I'm talking about building, maneuvering, and gunnery.

Yes, in the long run those players would be vastly superior to someone who started in a poptart Shadowhawk. But, as Shar Wolf points out, 90% of players wouldn't stick around for the long run if they have to go through 500 matches of getting stomped.

Shar Wolf, on 19 May 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

To a point yes - but if the person knows that they have no patience, or have problems learning through uphill battles....

Let us not chase off decent targets.

I would lean more toward putting them in the middle-of-the-road chassis myself - stuff like the Centurion or the Hunchback.

Give the some of an uphill climb (so that they actually have to learn what they are doing) but not to gimp them too much.
(Though I am one of those who believes a lot of 'gimped' mechs are a lot less gimped than most people would have you believe - if they are piloted right )

This I completely agree with. My stance in the earlier posts probably comes off as "Shawk > all teh mechs", but this is not necessarily the case. The temptation when building a Shadowhawk will naturally be to go full meta. If you don't know what you're doing, this is almost as bad as running a "bad" mech since you find yourself the target of focus fire. Lots of focus fire.

Whereas if a Hunchback and a meta-Hawk come round the corner, the Hunchback is likely to live longer which is what most newbies want. When you're new, chances are you won't be doing huge damage and getting kills. Just living to the end of the match or getting 6 assists feels like an achievement.

For what it's worth, I started in a Spider when the hitboxes were borked. It felt good to be nearly invincible, but then swapping into a Jenner it became clear what a crutch the Spider was. It took much longer to build the necessary skills after learning bad habits from the Spider.

But don't recommend "bad" mechs for new players. They'll be better off and far more likely to stay if they have a mech/build that is a decent middle ground.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Modo44, on 19 May 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

FTFY.

While this guide badly needs a preface and a "good pilots do decently in anything" disclaimer, it is mostly correct from a general mech strength perspective. If you buy a low-scored mech from it early on, you will have a doubly bad time.

So besides what the desc in the OP says, what else is bad about the Awesome? I know its energy based, almost entirely and that is an issue right away. Heat is the death of a mech.

I kinda wanted to drive one in this game, since we have no Zeus still, for w/e reason. However, I was looking at a Victor prolly...or a Warhawk lol.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 20 May 2014 - 02:30 AM.

[Modo44]

LordKnightFandragon, on 20 May 2014 - 02:29 AM, said:

So besides what the desc in the OP says, what else is bad about the Awesome?

Size and lack of mobility kill it in MWO. This 80 ton mech's torso is as wide as that of an Atlas. A barn door. It has no jump jets, and most variants have a low engine cap (apart from speed, the engine rating also affects your torso twist speed in MWO). Unlike on the Victor or Banshee, the arms do not fully cover the torso from the sides. Provided you aim at all, the Awesome is very easy to destroy almost regardless of its pilot's skill. This is terrible for an assault mech, which in theory should tank first -- draw enemy fire from squishier friends.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Modo44, on 20 May 2014 - 02:40 AM, said:

Size and lack of mobility kill it in MWO. This 80 ton mech's torso is as wide as that of an Atlas. A barn door. It has no jump jets, and most variants have a low engine cap (apart from speed, the engine rating also affects your torso twist speed in MWO). Unlike on the Victor or Banshee, the arms do not fully cover the torso from the sides. Provided you aim at all, the Awesome is very easy to destroy almost regardless of its pilot's skill. This is terrible for an assault mech, which in theory should tank first -- draw enemy fire from squishier friends.

And on another random note, is there a way to uninvert my reverse controls?

Cuz SA should not mean turn right....and SD should not be Left.....that kicks my ass everytime.

[Modo44]

You can rebind controls if that is what you are asking. Click on Settings in the lower right corner, and then click on Keyboard or Controller on the left list.

Edited by Modo44, 20 May 2014 - 03:32 AM.

[Ursh]

Re: Hunchbacks. I'm beating a deadhorse here, but even an average to mediocre gunner like me can deliberately target and destroy the hunch on an hback with a very low amount of effort. I aim in its general direction and it collects the bullets/missiles/lasers for me and then conveniently explodes.

I could recommend an hback as someone's second medium, because they're relatively cheap to outfit and their stock loadouts are quite solid in most cases. As a learning mech though, it's not very good, especially for learning ballistics, because they won't be practicing much ballistics gunnery with their missing hunch.

Edited by Ursh, 20 May 2014 - 03:23 AM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Lunatech, on 20 May 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

Whereas if a Hunchback and a meta-Hawk come round the corner, the Hunchback is likely to live longer which is what most newbies want. When you're new, chances are you won't be doing huge damage and getting kills. Just living to the end of the match or getting 6 assists feels like an achievement.

I was getting ready to come on and say that - with the numbers (IE how much armor the average Hunch has moved forward and all that crap) to support it - thank you for backing that up though.

Ursh, on 20 May 2014 - 03:22 AM, said:

Re: Hunchbacks. I'm beating a deadhorse here, but even an average to mediocre gunner like me can deliberately target and destroy the hunch on an hback with a very low amount of effort. I aim in its general direction and it collects the bullets/missiles/lasers for me and then conveniently explodes.

See - I have a similar issue with the Shadowhaw - for me the Shawk's gun is even easier to shoot off, in part because most pilots I fight do not remember to twist really to protect it (even the decent ones)

As for the Hunch - I would put that one as a second medium myself - with the Centurion as first, but there are plenty who look at the Hunch's simper builds and hold that up as more reason to take that one first.

[Mynder]

I bought the CN-9D as my first mech, mostly because I figured I'd be able to use that XL300 well even after moving on.

I loved that I could build for different roles with the cents, and they're still far from being bad mechs, even after their (bugged) hitboxes got fixed.

[Ursh]

Shar Wolf, on 20 May 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

I was getting ready to come on and say that - with the numbers (IE how much armor the average Hunch has moved forward and all that crap) to support it - thank you for backing that up though.
See - I have a similar issue with the Shadowhaw - for me the Shawk's gun is even easier to shoot off, in part because most pilots I fight do not remember to twist really to protect it (even the decent ones)

As for the Hunch - I would put that one as a second medium myself - with the Centurion as first, but there are plenty who look at the Hunch's simper builds and hold that up as more reason to take that one first.

Cents are a good reco for a first mech as well I think. You can do a lot with them, and if a player wants to spend out a little real life cash to get a head start on cbill grinding, a YLW is better than a Grid-iron, in my opinion.

[Mynder]

One thing cent pilots learn is to twist and protect their gun arm. Being aware of where your biggest weapons are and protecting them through torso twisting is valuable in pretty much all mechs.

So yes, still a good recommendation.

[Ursh]

Mynder, on 21 May 2014 - 02:42 AM, said:

One thing cent pilots learn is to twist and protect their gun arm. Being aware of where your biggest weapons are and protecting them through torso twisting is valuable in pretty much all mechs.

So yes, still a good recommendation.

Yeah, I think the cent does a great job of teaching pilots to twist, and its weapon arm is easier to hide than the hback's hunch.

[xMintaka]

Ursh, on 21 May 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

Yeah, I think the cent does a great job of teaching pilots to twist, and its weapon arm is easier to hide than the hback's hunch.

It has significantly less armour and internal HP though.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Ursh, on 21 May 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

Yeah, I think the cent does a great job of teaching pilots to twist, and its weapon arm is easier to hide than the hback's hunch.

Lunatech, on 21 May 2014 - 02:52 AM, said:

It has significantly less armour and internal HP though.

Six to one, half a dozen to the other, in my opinion.

The Centurion's arm can be hid easier (very very slightly)
The Hunchback's hunch has the nifty armor trick, and has that massive twist hooked into it.

On the whole, I would say that Hunchbacks are simpler (and all boat)- Centurion more flexible.

Both teach a lot of the same skills, so which ultimately to recommend, would be which end of that spectrum they want to sit on.

[Xenithos]

IU just want to say something here for a pilot who has been playing mechwarrior online since early closed beta. The best mechs i've seen in this game, by far, are in this order: Battlemasters, BlackJacks, Jaegers, and Jenners/firestarters.

You may be thinking i'm crazy but honestly here's why:
For Newbs, these platforms are easy to get geared up nicely, and sort of cheaply. I have spent 12 million on ONE shadowhawk trying to figure out good combos because of sad, SAD hardpoints. The aim of the game is to last as LONG as POSSIBLE with all weapons to deal most damage to help YOUR TEAM WIN!

Blackjacks are small medium mechs that pack a punch, and at high speeds. It is so much fun and so easy to get really good at the 1-x by placing an xl275 on it later and just running 8 meds. The blackjacks arms, where the majority of hardpoints are, are really hard to take off unless you shut down.

Battlemasters follow the name of the game and the mech, they are the BATTLE MASTERS! These guys become insanely awesome when you find comfortable builds, with the Phoenix variants i have mastered each and racked up seriously awesome support, brawler, and plain fun builds. Such as 4 large and 3SRM6 w/artemis that goes 64-72. I mean, Just buying the Battlemaster that comes with 6 meds and a ppc and an srm 2 or what not is by far coming as a premade. It's like buying a champion! It comes perfect. Also, the other battlemaster from phoenix works amazingly well with 3-AC2s and 4 medium lasers, and an xl275. Silly, YES, but effective, you bet your bucks on it.

Jaegers- These guys are plain scary. They are thin medium mechs, and the dbAC20 Jaeger far outweighs the Cat because it can stick those ACs on it's arms. Also, like the blackjack, it can have some really fun builds. 2AC20s and 2 med pulses works great for some, and if you really like kills, run 2LB10xacs, 2 machine guns, and 4 med lasers on the 3rd jaeger. You will not believe how easy it is to take kills, and understand the sheer firepower of the almighty Jaegers. Like it has been said, we've got the moves like Jaeger.

And Jenners and Firestarters are ramping up in awesomeness. I just plain reccomend them for not only their iconic awesomeness. but the fact that they have many easy to build builds and effective armor. Second to these are ravens, but be warned, its really hard to get used to mr. mcslowgo raven. You'll know him when you see him. And DO NOT GET HUGINN.

The problem with shadowhawks and victors, They are BIG targets, (mind this: shadowhawks arent as bad as Kintaros, or locuts ) Also, the hardpoints on shadowhawks are a big problem, there is only on shadowhawk that has good hardpoints, the others are hard to find good builds with unless you know your playstyle. beforehand. The things is they have a sort-of hunch and a problematic arm slots. Where sometimes 80% of the firepower can be eliminated like the centurion.

Edited by Xenithos, 22 May 2014 - 02:17 PM.

[Mycrus]

Shar Wolf, on 20 May 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

I was getting ready to come on and say that - with the numbers (IE how much armor the average Hunch has moved forward and all that crap) to support it - thank you for backing that up though.
See - I have a similar issue with the Shadowhaw - for me the Shawk's gun is even easier to shoot off, in part because most pilots I fight do not remember to twist really to protect it (even the decent ones)

As for the Hunch - I would put that one as a second medium myself - with the Centurion as first, but there are plenty who look at the Hunch's simper builds and hold that up as more reason to take that one first.

Hunchies can be built well with a standard 275... cheap to build fun to run and teaches you important in game skills like awareness, positioning, gunnery

[Alaskan Nobody]

Mycrus, on 21 May 2014 - 09:01 PM, said:

Hunchies can be built well with a standard 275... cheap to build fun to run and teaches you important in game skills like awareness, positioning, gunnery

I use a 250 on most half of mine - but the missile and laser ones do make good use of that extra 25 points.

[Mycrus]

keep on posting, don't let this thread die!

EDIT: LOLCUST is BEST MECH.

Edited by Mycrus, 23 May 2014 - 05:03 PM.