376 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 November 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

Murphy's Law is made up of more than just me. And i as a Command we choose to be "Assault Heavy" Why should we be limited due to Your wishes?
CW should not take Fan made Campaigns into consideration, But for Canon The Dragoon Zeta Battalion was populated by the Heaviest Units

So IF Murphy's attacks these guys, Mediums and Lights should not be present! At All! I for one don't want to see any if i have the misfortune of riding against them.

But ZETA - was used against all odds. And they made there job....and they turned the tide more as once but not without ultimate costs.
When you meet Zeta...heck it shouldn't be a fight 12 vs 12 - thats not glorious - thats boring.
12 Zetas vs 36 attackers that is a story worth telling.

I hate the dragons - I'm WoB - but the name Zeta gives me a shiver. Thats the way of BattleTech - if MWO can't come up with that - they should not use those units

As long as those CW don't have campaign background...no Zetas, not 10th Lyran Guards, not Assault Guards.
Nothing - only not linked battles on no named planets to conquer soup

Edited by Karl Streiger, 27 November 2013 - 07:03 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Karl Streiger, on 27 November 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

But ZETA - was used against all odds. And they made there job....and they turned the tide more as once but not without ultimate costs.
When you meet Zeta...heck it shouldn't be a fight 12 vs 12 - thats not glorious - thats boring.
12 Zetas vs 36 attackers that is a story worth telling.

As long as those CW don't have campaign background...no Zetas, not 10th Lyran Guards, not Assault Guards.
Nothing - only not linked battles on no named planets to conquer soup

Unless I am not the Zeta player. Beating them would bring bragging rights that would shake TS for years. We know there are plans for Canon Units to be populated by players, lets allow those units to be all they are in canon. Restrict the Fan units Like the Law, but don't tamper with the House composition.

[Ngamok]

YueFei, on 26 November 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

I mainly pilot Hunchbacks. And I say NO to tonnage limits.

The NFL doesn't impose team weight limits. And yet you'll see anything from 140 pound speedsters to 325+ pound hulks, with all kinds in between. And every single one of those players contributes an important role in executing each play.

ROLE WARFARE is where it's at. Larger maps, multiple objectives, with each objective influencing the match (e.g., one base contains the artillery batteries for your team). That's really all it would take.

NFL tonnage limits is player count. They can only drop with 53 players but only 45 (46th is the inactive 3rd quarterback but is allowed to suit up) suit up, other 8 are listed as inactive. Team size is still 11 on the field.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ngamok, on 27 November 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

NFL tonnage limits is player count. They can only drop with 53 players but only 45 (46th is the inactive 3rd quarterback but is allowed to suit up) suit up, other 8 are listed as inactive. Team size is still 11 on the field.

But those 11 could all be 300+ Lbs bruisers is what I think he is getting at. May not make for good wide receivers bu man How tough would it be to stop a freight train running back?

[Macbrea]

If they don't limit by tonnage, then they should limit by BVs. Oh, don't want to have to submit your mech to be evalutated for it's combat capabilities to balance the two sides? Tonnage is the easy way.

[Joseph Mallan]

Macbrea, on 27 November 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

If they don't limit by tonnage, then they should limit by BVs. Oh, don't want to have to submit your mech to be evalutated for it's combat capabilities to balance the two sides? Tonnage is the easy way.

Actually BV is easy to manipulate if you know the math.

[stjobe]

Tichorius Davion, on 27 November 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

Be glad that Bryan considers the Pilot Skills to still be a placeholder menu full of placeholder skills and is possibly subject to change in the future. How soon I don't know. It is up to them to develop it further because I find it kinda silly my jester reaches nearly 100 kph. I tend to use a STD with it anyways and operate it with 64 kph just fine if not better

It used to be that pilot skills were talked about as place holders, but somewhere between closed beta and release they seem to have changed their minds; what we have now isn't place holders any more, and the dreams of Dev Blog 4 are just that; dreams of what could have been.

That's why I continue to talk about it and link to it, in the hope that they will come to their senses and start re-implementing pilot skills that don't invalidate whole weight classes.

[Ngamok]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 November 2013 - 07:30 AM, said:

But those 11 could all be 300+ Lbs bruisers is what I think he is getting at. May not make for good wide receivers bu man How tough would it be to stop a freight train running back?

But each player doesn't weigh the same, when he is injured you can't look at your roster and pick the next 325 lb guy to replace the 325 lb guy. You replace him with the next in line and he might be 290 lb. Currently the lightest player in the NFL is 155 lbs. He doesn't get much play time. Wes Welker is 185 lbs. Linemen are the assaults. But some of those guys are stronger at 280 than the 360 lb guys who are just there to block you and can't even get back up during the play once they get knocked down.

Also, ever see the lighter guys tackle a running back? Wrap up his legs, they will always go down. If you try to body block him, you'll get knocked over.

Edited by Ngamok, 27 November 2013 - 07:37 AM.

[Sandtiger]

I see a lot of hate and discontent towards assault mechs. Do you people realize that it is in the skill of the pilot, not the abilities of the mech? I predominatly drive an AS7 D-DC because of its ECM capabilities. However, I get owned by medium and light mechs. It's not what your packing ladies and gentlement. It is what you do with it.

Just two days ago, a shadowhawk walked right over the top of me, as though I didn't even shoot at him. Why? Simply put, he was a much better pilot. I do however enjoy the speed that my locust gives me, and I pilot a commando that I effectionatly call Heraclese. So I run all all the weight classes. So before you troll me, let me say this.

Tonnage is not a factor for a win loose debate. It's that you suck, and cannot pilot your mech. So instead of crying to the Devs for more "Balance" Put on your big boy-girl pants, and learn how to drive. I for one, will be battling it out in ALL classes of mechs. Practicing what I preach. =]

[CeeKay Boques]

I'm hoping that all of this "weight balance" is just for Solaris and private stuff, and that when CW comes out, that the mechs that can fight are either:


A: The mechs you brought on your Jump/Dropship.

Or

B: The Mechs you have garrisoned on this planet.


If All the assaults in your Unit are on Mustard 9. Well, they aren't elsewhere. But if you attack Mustard 9, be prepared to fight all the assaults. That planet is well defended.

[Sandtiger]

Technoviking,
Well Spoken! What a great way to satisfy both sides of this debate. Who can argue with that logic? WELL PLAYED!

[Priest4357]

Hellcat420, on 26 November 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

this is exactly why i will play other games instead of this game when they add tonnage limits. im not here to be forced to play some mech i dont want to play. they are probably going to lose a lot of players over this, they should go back to weight class matching. nothing like paying up to $40 for a mech then not being able to use it because of stupid a$$ tonnage limits.

You are also assuming that EVERYONE wants to play heavy tonnage mechs, in every match. I run a medium, and I love it. I have 1 Med, 2 Heavy, and 1 assualt I like to run, and that's what I have avail. I'm happier in my Medium, but the others are good fun for me too. This means I can bring from 55tons, up to 85tons.

If you only have Assualts that you will run, and play, then you'll be matched up with others running lighter mechs. It's not like the game is going to send you a message saying you can't play your mech you signed up to run because it's over the weight limit. You just wouldn't drop with that group.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ngamok, on 27 November 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

But each player doesn't weigh the same, when he is injured you can't look at your roster and pick the next 325 lb guy to replace the 325 lb guy. You replace him with the next in line and he might be 290 lb. Currently the lightest player in the NFL is 155 lbs. He doesn't get much play time. Wes Welker is 185 lbs. Linemen are the assaults. But some of those guys are stronger at 280 than the 360 lb guys who are just there to block you and can't even get back up during the play once they get knocked down.

Also, ever see the lighter guys tackle a running back? Wrap up his legs, they will always go down. If you try to body block him, you'll get knocked over.

So the answer is... No? There is no rule against it. Now... How many different tanks does the US military now field?

[Thorn Hallis]

Technoviking, on 27 November 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

~snip~

I doubt it. With no economy in the game there would be no stop to garrsion every planet with heavy/assault 'Mechs.

[Zyllos]

My view on tonnage limits and lance sizes will hopefully not be a "static" value.

It would be interesting to allow House/Merc/Unit's to have "assets", like assault, vanguard, defense, ect.

Moving these assets around on the CW map modifies the base static values of tonnage and player limit within the game. Assets are destroyed dependent on the outcome of the battle.

Each asset type modifies the values of the battle based on the situation the asset type is assigned to. Each battle situation already has a it's own tonnage limit and 12 mechs fieldable.

For example, a defense asset type would gain a bonus in tonnage when defending to reflect the "heavier" assets and don't need to move from it's objectives. But if the defense asset has to attack for any reason (maybe your forward assets were destroyed but you almost have the city taken, thus you move the defense asset up to finish up), you lose the tonnage limit bonus and you can only field 10 mechs.

The assault type is good for initial planetary attacks, thus there is no modification to the planetary battle situation. All other asset types normally receive some type of penalty for attempting a planetary assault. The assault asset might receive a small penalty in tonnage when doing defense and attack battle situations.

Hell, you might even be able to allow for specific bonuses for House specialties, like a Liao unit asset, Dragon's are always considered 5 tons more/less for (you never know, maybe you want to underfield tonnage to allow for more lights, so a +/- tonnage should allow for that) meeting the requirements to drop.

What the above system is suppose to add variety to each battle so that each one is slightly different. It also adds a bit of strategy. This is what I hope is the ultimate goal.

[WarHippy]

Victor Morson, on 26 November 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

A twelve man lobby with pre-set weights would be incredibly useful.



I almost never say this but.. really.. too bad.

Weight matching is absolutely devestating this game and it should have been in there from the very beginning. Playing pug 12 mans is a tedious and frustrating experience since you never know what weight you are going up against, and have to ton up insanely to do well in.

Your "everyone should be able to drive 100 ton assaults" logic, as such, kills the ability to drive lighter stuff because you're hurting your team badly if you do.

That said, as long as the tonnage is flexible it is fine. There are really heavy drops and really light drops. You shouldn't be able to force your assault on all of them.

I almost never say this, but learn to play.

There are plenty of people that do really well in lights and mediums regardless of what the opposition is fielding. You may feel that no weight limits is devastating this game, but I promise you what will devastate this game is people not being able to play with their friends if they want to pilot the mechs that they want to pilot.

[Priest4357]

JagdFlanker, on 26 November 2013 - 05:29 PM, said:

there is a very good reason why people pilot the big guys - THEY MAKE YOU CASH. the whole point of this game is to MAKE CASH to buy more mechs and accessories.

i'd LOVE to pilot my jenner more often, but it only makes me half the cash my victor does so i'm not going to waste my time in it. i'd LOVE to pilot my hunch more often (or even ever), but my victor goes as fast as it and is way more survivable, and surviving longer means you have a better chance of doing more damage, and more damage makes you MORE CASH

if all weight classes had a way of making an equal amount of cash in a game by doing it's specific job (i assume this is what people are talking about in regards to this 'role warfare' thing), then all weight classes would be used. but if you had a choice of working a job that makes $10/hr or a job that makes $20/hr doing the exact same work, which do you think you are going to pick?

I pilot a medium. I make more with it than i do with Assualt 75% of the time. Then again, I play my medium more than the others, and I'm better with it.

[Ngamok]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 November 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

So the answer is... No? There is no rule against it. Now... How many different tanks does the US military now field?

http://en.wikipedia....y_land_vehicles

A few variations. So I guess they are all 733Cs then.

Edited by Ngamok, 27 November 2013 - 08:15 AM.

[CeeKay Boques]

Thorn Hallis, on 27 November 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

I doubt it. With no economy in the game there would be no stop to garrsion every planet with heavy/assault 'Mechs.

Yes, Well, lets hope things aren't done terribly, and there is a freaking economy along with CW. If CW is one big no time/no repair infinite magic mech Counterstrike fest it is now... then CW is just a color coded ladder league anyway.

but lets assume they do it right for a second.

But lets say the Front is 60 LY away, where an important planet named Xex is being fought over.
You want to be there. Your mechs are on Yep. (also on Wow, Tot, Ubu you have a lot of mechs but they are more than 2 jumps away.)

It costs 10 million to jump there, and you have a dropship that can carry 400 tons.

Do you bring all 4 Assault mechs? A mixture of 8 'mechs? Remember, after all your 'mechs are dead you have to use House supplied stock (trial) 'mechs if the battle is continuing. (in imaginary awesome land)

Maybe they add missions, and your first step is "Recon", or "Secure LZ" and you have to take all the control points in part of time. Assaults wont' do it.

All kinds of ways to make CW not suck, and limits happen by default of role, or availability, or Dropship size...

[42and19]

Zyllos, on 27 November 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

My view on tonnage limits and lance sizes will hopefully not be a "static" value.

It would be interesting to allow House/Merc/Unit's to have "assets", like assault, vanguard, defense, ect.

Moving these assets around on the CW map modifies the base static values of tonnage and player limit within the game. Assets are destroyed dependent on the outcome of the battle.

Each asset type modifies the values of the battle based on the situation the asset type is assigned to. Each battle situation already has a it's own tonnage limit and 12 mechs fieldable.

For example, a defense asset type would gain a bonus in tonnage when defending to reflect the "heavier" assets and don't need to move from it's objectives. But if the defense asset has to attack for any reason (maybe your forward assets were destroyed but you almost have the city taken, thus you move the defense asset up to finish up), you lose the tonnage limit bonus and you can only field 10 mechs.

The assault type is good for initial planetary attacks, thus there is no modification to the planetary battle situation. All other asset types normally receive some type of penalty for attempting a planetary assault. The assault asset might receive a small penalty in tonnage when doing defense and attack battle situations.

Hell, you might even be able to allow for specific bonuses for House specialties, like a Liao unit asset, Dragon's are always considered 5 tons more/less for (you never know, maybe you want to underfield tonnage to allow for more lights, so a +/- tonnage should allow for that) meeting the requirements to drop.

What the above system is suppose to add variety to each battle so that each one is slightly different. It also adds a bit of strategy. This is what I hope is the ultimate goal.

I love this idea. Something that is dynamic and adds flavor to the game rather than nerfing the experience.

There is a canon based logic behind weight limits and that is the limitation of the drop ships that are being employed. I would love to see something of this nature. I understand that some people want to be able to drop in a group in whatever they want hell, some of the most entertaining matches I have been a part of is 12 man light packs.

However, it is a bit depressing to see that for the most part (at least in most of the 12 mans I am in) most players bring assaults. It's rare to see a heavy or medium.

I like the idea of a dynamic weight system based on game mode and resources. Back when they first introduced 12v12 games I was one of the few that was also for 4v4 games and 8v8 games. Again, something to bring flavor to what has become a fairly static game.

Technoviking, on 27 November 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Yes, Well, lets hope things aren't done terribly, and there is a freaking economy along with CW. If CW is one big no time/no repair infinite magic mech Counterstrike fest it is now... then CW is just a color coded ladder league anyway.

but lets assume they do it right for a second.

But lets say the Front is 60 LY away, where an important planet named Xex is being fought over.
You want to be there. Your mechs are on Yep. (also on Wow, Tot, Ubu you have a lot of mechs but they are more than 2 jumps away.)

It costs 10 million to jump there, and you have a dropship that can carry 400 tons.

Do you bring all 4 Assault mechs? A mixture of 8 'mechs? Remember, after all your 'mechs are dead you have to use House supplied stock (trial) 'mechs if the battle is continuing. (in imaginary awesome land)

Maybe they add missions, and your first step is "Recon", or "Secure LZ" and you have to take all the control points in part of time. Assaults wont' do it.

All kinds of ways to make CW not suck, and limits happen by default of role, or availability, or Dropship size...

Again, a great idea.

Edited by 42and19, 27 November 2013 - 08:25 AM.