81 replies to this topic

[Atheus]

Tesunie, on 04 December 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

The problem wasn't the lack of information, which I do lack in on the specifics, but the fact that you linked me to a thread saying the information is there, and then explode on me about how wrong my information is. It isn't till two posts later you tell me you linked me to that thread for the shell rate only, but never mentioned that before hand. And then you wonder why I'm confused as to why my information is wrong according to you...

Now, I am booting my game up and going to take as much information from the game itself. Of course, this still does not guarantee complete accuracy.

Drop delay time does say it is 4 seconds by the in game skill tree: Video evidence suggests this is correct

Radius of artillery strike seems to be 60m now instead of 50m, by your quote (in game has no information like this mentioned).

Each shell also seems to have a radius of 30m, as per your quote (I'm guessing it's accurate).

Each shell does 40 damage at impact, and quickly drops to 0 as it passes 30m.

10 shells land per maximized strike. I am going to guess that they still land in a 3 second frame. (I couldn't see the whole thing, but in the video it seems to be 2 seconds...)

This still leaves 4 seconds to respond to the smoke cloud, and 3 (maybe 2) seconds to remove yourself to prevent full damage.

A mech (such as my Shadowhawk) that moves about 60KPH will move about 17m a second (17m x 60seconds=1020m=1.02Km). So, it should take a mech that moves 60 KPH 4 seconds to remove themselves from the area. (4 seconds x 17m = 68m). So, yes, you might not be able to always escape unscathed from a strike. The radius of the strike is 60m of random shell droppings. If a shell drops on the out edge of the 60m area, it threatens out to around 90m away from the smoke, but it will only be splash damage from there on. Given that they also drop randomly, the closer to an edge you are, the better your chances are of the shells dropping away from you.

So, unless my refined math is incorrect, it is still possible for slow mechs to remove themselves from the brunt of the damage, if not still (luck given) be able to get out without any damage. Of course, this also presumes that they did not increase the speed at which the shells drop at.

Also, I would like to mention that a single strike costs 40,000 c-bills each and requires 15,000 GXP to make the best use of them (per type). If one was to load up on one of each, it would cost them 80,000 c-bills for a single use item each (that will also take up a module slot, which can remove something more universally helpful such as capture accelerator, Seismic Sensor, Advanced Zoom, etc) . Most people make around 100,000-150,000 on a good match, if they win. 80,000 is a good chunk of their victory money as well as can be a gamble, because if they loose, use the strikes, miss (or even hit sometimes), and they end a match with 40,000 c-bills or less (I don't recall what the minimum amount one can earn is in a single match), they can actually go into the negatives.

The strike is a high risk, high reward weapon. It's expensive, works once and is gone, and has a delay in it, and can easily miss or do very little damage if things don't work out right. There is also still a 4 second delay between uses (as far as I can tell) which means that a team can still only use them every 8 seconds, and I believe air and artillery are combined on this?

Still suggest one stay on the move, keep momentum going on their mech, and just try to react as soon as you can to it.

So, as far as the strikes go, I don't think they are the problem you are thinking they are. Personally, I still hardly see them on the battlefield. And if you want to throw "low elo" into the discussion, I can tell you my Elo is near the neutral area. How can I tell? I seem to run with a lot of trial mechs nearby, people constantly use LRMs like fire and forget weapons, inside their minimum range, outside their maximum range, PPCs get used inside their minimum range, etc. I play a lot of pug matches, and very few 12 man teams. Maybe it's a problem in 12 man premades, but in PUG land, it's not a big deal...

If you aren't seeing a near constant chain of air and artillery strikes, you aren't really experiencing the impact they have on a match, or what it's like trying to avoid them. At high ELO, you will see easily 10-15 strikes from each team. The cost is irrelevant to someone with an abundance of cash, and high ELO players have an abundance of cash. Aside from that, you forgot to include in your calculation human reaction time + network latency, or anything to do with how the smoke can isn't even noticeable for the first second or so anyway (take a close look at the video you posted). Even if you do manage to see the smoke can the instant it spawns, you still don't have 4 seconds from the time you are ready to execute evasive maneuvers, you have ~3.4, depending on your ping and your reflexes. Then, you're again assuming that you're already travelling 60 km/h (10 faster than you said you were going before, but whatever — even at 60 you're only going to move 57m in 3.4 seconds.) But again you assume you're going at that speed in a straight line away from the center, which is pretty much never going to be the case, no matter how much you say you move around. As I said before, if you can see the smoke, that means it is in front of you, so unless you are moving backwards at 60 km/h, that means you're moving toward it. Also, in actual practice, you will have to steer, you will have to change speed, you will have to navigate around your allies and around nearby obstacles. You may have to move in a direction which would expose you to enemy fire, or up a hill that's slowing you down. Basically, you're wasting your time and energy trying to avoid it. Get away from the smoke a bit if you can until you see the shells have dropped if it's safe to move in that direction, but don't fool yourself and think that you're going to avoid any substantial amount of damage in your slow mech unless you're already a good distance from the center - which as I said in the very beginning - you were already pretty much out of the danger zone to begin with.

So there you are, 16,000 words later and you still haven't made any sort of worthwhile argument. At least we both learned something by making me go back through all the patch notes from the period where I wasn't playing. I didn't know they increased the impact and blast radii either, until yesterday.

Edited by Atheus, 04 December 2013 - 07:50 PM.

[Tesunie]

Atheus, on 04 December 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

If you aren't seeing a near constant chain of air and artillery strikes, you aren't really experiencing the impact they have on a match, or what it's like trying to avoid them. At high ELO, you will see easily 10-15 strikes from each team. The cost is irrelevant to someone with an abundance of cash, and high ELO players have an abundance of cash. Aside from that, you forgot to include in your calculation human reaction time + network latency, or anything to do with how the smoke can isn't even noticeable for the first second or so anyway (take a close look at the video you posted). Even if you do manage to see the smoke can the instant it spawns, you still don't have 4 seconds from the time you are ready to execute evasive maneuvers, you have ~3.4, depending on your ping and your reflexes. Then, you're again assuming that you're already travelling 60 km/h (10 faster than you said you were going before, but whatever — even at 60 you're only going to move 57m in 3.4 seconds.) But again you assume you're going at that speed in a straight line away from the center, which is pretty much never going to be the case, no matter how much you say you move around. As I said before, if you can see the smoke, that means it is in front of you, so unless you are moving backwards at 60 km/h, that means you're moving toward it. Also, in actual practice, you will have to steer, you will have to change speed, you will have to navigate around your allies and around nearby obstacles. You may have to move in a direction which would expose you to enemy fire, or up a hill that's slowing you down. Basically, you're wasting your time and energy trying to avoid it. Get away from the smoke a bit if you can until you see the shells have dropped if it's safe to move in that direction, but don't fool yourself and think that you're going to avoid any substantial amount of damage in your slow mech unless you're already a good distance from the center - which as I said in the very beginning - you were already pretty much out of the danger zone to begin with.

So there you are, 16,000 words later and you still haven't made any sort of worthwhile argument. At least we both learned something by making me go back through all the patch notes from the period where I wasn't playing. I didn't know they increased the impact and blast radii either, until yesterday.

You want to include things that can't be calculated. Which mech are we talking about? A 60 KPH light? Medium? Heavy? Assault? Does it have an acceleration boost? Penalty? Are you moving? Standing still? Do you see the smoke? How fast do you react to it? How bad/good is your ping/latency? I can't calculate those things. So, all I can say is that, if one is standing in the dead center of the smoke, and they move 60 KPH and is already in motion, that it will take them 4 seconds to get to safety. That means, if they are standing still it will take them longer to get to a safe range. How much longer? I can't say.

I'm just saying, moving at 60 KPH, a mech can get out of the way within 4 seconds (generally speaking). Speaking for reflex and latency, it might take you 4.5 seconds. If you are standing still (something me and many others highly recommend, and "high" Elo players should already know), it might take you anywhere from 4.5 seconds to 7 seconds (rounded, guessed numbers but they sound about right), mech type dependent.

So, which mech are we going by? My Shadowhawk goes from standing still to moving fairly quick. My Locust does too. My Quickdraw/Thunderbolt doesn't take too long... Now, my Battlemaster/Stalker? That could be a while. So, a timed delay attack is most effective against slow targets, just like how artillery and air strikes work in real life and in lore. They deny area? Well, that is one of their jobs.

Now, you make it sound like I'm saying you can and will always be able to escape a strike. You might not always be able to. I don't deny that. If you are near the center of a well placed strike, you very well might not be able to escape the full force of the blast. If you are on the edge (can see the smoke), you can do other things besides reverse, like turning to a side which will probably be faster anyway.

Also, as a final note, how do you know what Elo this is happening at? It could be low Elo, neutral Elo, or high Elo. We don't know what our Elo scores are. It always amazes me how everyone presumes that they have high Elo scores, and how anyone who says anything counter to them usually must have low Elo scores (you didn't say this, I'm just saying in general). I am fairly certain I'm at neutral Elo, or somewhere near there, and in my PUG matches I personally don't really see them being used too much, but I do see them. Personally, I'm typically long gone before the strike comes, so I shall admit I don't tend to see the fireworks too often.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Did people even notice when this got shoved into K-Town?

[Tesunie]

Shar Wolf, on 04 December 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

Did people even notice when this got shoved into K-Town?

Yes, I did. But I can't help myself...

[Alaskan Nobody]

Tesunie, on 04 December 2013 - 09:32 PM, said:

Yes, I did. But I can't help myself...

Which begs the question of why I am posting here I guess.

Most of the threads I see in K town seem to be here because there is no winning the argument - not because the other side is right (though they may or may not be) but because of... well I cannot say it in a nice way, but I am sure you know what I mean.

Best of luck.
(why AM I here?! )

[Atheus]

Tesunie, on 04 December 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

You want to include things that can't be calculated. Which mech are we talking about? A 60 KPH light? Medium? Heavy? Assault? Does it have an acceleration boost? Penalty? Are you moving? Standing still? Do you see the smoke? How fast do you react to it? How bad/good is your ping/latency? I can't calculate those things. So, all I can say is that, if one is standing in the dead center of the smoke, and they move 60 KPH and is already in motion, that it will take them 4 seconds to get to safety. That means, if they are standing still it will take them longer to get to a safe range. How much longer? I can't say.

I'm just saying, moving at 60 KPH, a mech can get out of the way within 4 seconds (generally speaking). Speaking for reflex and latency, it might take you 4.5 seconds. If you are standing still (something me and many others highly recommend, and "high" Elo players should already know), it might take you anywhere from 4.5 seconds to 7 seconds (rounded, guessed numbers but they sound about right), mech type dependent.

So, which mech are we going by? My Shadowhawk goes from standing still to moving fairly quick. My Locust does too. My Quickdraw/Thunderbolt doesn't take too long... Now, my Battlemaster/Stalker? That could be a while. So, a timed delay attack is most effective against slow targets, just like how artillery and air strikes work in real life and in lore. They deny area? Well, that is one of their jobs.

Now, you make it sound like I'm saying you can and will always be able to escape a strike. You might not always be able to. I don't deny that. If you are near the center of a well placed strike, you very well might not be able to escape the full force of the blast. If you are on the edge (can see the smoke), you can do other things besides reverse, like turning to a side which will probably be faster anyway.

Also, as a final note, how do you know what Elo this is happening at? It could be low Elo, neutral Elo, or high Elo. We don't know what our Elo scores are. It always amazes me how everyone presumes that they have high Elo scores, and how anyone who says anything counter to them usually must have low Elo scores (you didn't say this, I'm just saying in general). I am fairly certain I'm at neutral Elo, or somewhere near there, and in my PUG matches I personally don't really see them being used too much, but I do see them. Personally, I'm typically long gone before the strike comes, so I shall admit I don't tend to see the fireworks too often.

If you see a high ELO match, you'll see the difference. That's all I can tell you.

[Tesunie]

Atheus, on 04 December 2013 - 09:58 PM, said:

If you see a high ELO match, you'll see the difference. That's all I can tell you.

And that, tells me nothing. How do you know you are in a high Elo match yourself? And not mid-midhigh? Not everyone can be "high elo", or at least not as many as claims to be on these forums. All I'm just saying is, not all of us see this as often as you appearently, nor do we seem to typically have as many problems/success with it as you seem to. Are you seeing this in PUG matches, or just in 12 vs 12? I personally don't play very many 12 vs 12 matches. I play mostly PUG matches. Could this be making the difference? Also, for 12 vs 12, Elo doesn't play as much of an affect in the matching (less of a player pool to choose from).

[Atheus]

Tesunie, on 04 December 2013 - 10:11 PM, said:

And that, tells me nothing. How do you know you are in a high Elo match yourself? And not mid-midhigh? Not everyone can be "high elo", or at least not as many as claims to be on these forums. All I'm just saying is, not all of us see this as often as you appearently, nor do we seem to typically have as many problems/success with it as you seem to. Are you seeing this in PUG matches, or just in 12 vs 12? I personally don't play very many 12 vs 12 matches. I play mostly PUG matches. Could this be making the difference? Also, for 12 vs 12, Elo doesn't play as much of an affect in the matching (less of a player pool to choose from).

I'm talking about pug/4 man.

Your first clue will be that you never see a trial mech anywhere. As I said earlier, when you suddenly see 30 air/artillery strikes per match, that will be your second clue. Your third clue will probably be when you notice that you can't really count on anyone missing any more. Your final clue is when you notice that enemies aren't just hitting random spots on your semi-fast mech from 500m out, but the specific component they're aiming for.

I'm not pretending that I'm super-pro or anything like that. I am far enough above average that when I solo drop I never see a trial mech, but I have joined groups with super-pro players. The level of play is such that while I may average about 600-700 damage normally in whatever mech, regularly getting 900-1000+ in the apex builds, I struggle to get over 150 damage in those matches unless I'm in an apex build of some sort - meaning highlander, victor, atlas, or some other AC/20 mount.

[Roadbeer]

[Heffay]

Outplayed.

There is only one solution: Come to the forum and complain about it.

[dal10]

there is a reason why people put 350s in atlases. that is all.

[Shredhead]

I can hereby confirm that this Atheus character is not in high Elo, as we've rarely, if ever, stumbled upon him. And we do memorize good players.

[Mystere]

Atheus, on 05 December 2013 - 12:21 AM, said:

I am far enough above average ...
I have joined groups with super-pro players ...

Now I really really really want that 128+ player no-holds-barred, winner-takes-all, free-for-all game mode. Because there can really be only one ...

Edited by Mystere, 05 December 2013 - 03:39 PM.

[Atheus]

dal10, on 05 December 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

there is a reason why people put 350s in atlases. that is all.

Is it to dodge artillery strikes? That's pretty silly. You can't dodge artillery strikes at 62 km/h.

[Tesunie]

Atheus, on 05 December 2013 - 10:03 PM, said:

[size=4]
Is it to dodge artillery strikes? That's pretty silly. You can't dodge artillery strikes at 62 km/h.

As already proven, a 60 KPH mech can dodge a strike by being able to move out of the range of it. They can exit the threat range in 4 seconds of movement, if you are already moving. So, saying "they can't" is a false term. They can, even if it is unlikely to do so with no damage at all. More than likely, they will experience some damage if they are not already moving, not being cautious, standing still, or being inattentive.

A true statement would be to say a 62 KPH mech is unlikely to escape a strike unscathed. It is in fact possible for them to escape a dead on strike, even if it might be difficult at best.

60 KPH / 60 minutes (1 hour) = 1 km per minute
1000m = 1km
1000m / 60 seconds (one minute) = 16.6666 mps (round to 17 meters per second)
60m drop range (90m threat range) /17mps = 3.52 (5.29) seconds of movement needed to escape danger.

So, if moving, a 60 KPH mech can in fact escape a blast relatively unharmed, if not unharmed.

Also, artillery hurting slow targets. It's what it's always been designed to do. Now if it could reliably hit a fast moving target, then I could see a real problem with it.

Also, more information on the strikes can be found in this discussion: http://mwomercs.com/...y-arty-at-once/
I suggest you at least read Koniving's posts, he's known for being in the know and fairly accurate.

(PS: People place large engine on assaults not to dodge strikes, but typically to help move into action faster and help overall performance/dodging/positioning/reflexes.)

Edited by Tesunie, 05 December 2013 - 10:24 PM.

[Atheus]

Tesunie, on 05 December 2013 - 10:23 PM, said:

As already proven, a 60 KPH mech can dodge a strike by being able to move out of the range of it. They can exit the threat range in 4 seconds of movement, if you are already moving. So, saying "they can't" is a false term. They can, even if it is unlikely to do so with no damage at all. More than likely, they will experience some damage if they are not already moving, not being cautious, standing still, or being inattentive.

A true statement would be to say a 62 KPH mech is unlikely to escape a strike unscathed. It is in fact possible for them to escape a dead on strike, even if it might be difficult at best.

60 KPH / 60 minutes (1 hour) = 1 km per minute
1000m = 1km
1000m / 60 seconds (one minute) = 16.6666 mps (round to 17 meters per second)
60m drop range (90m threat range) /17mps = 3.52 (5.29) seconds of movement needed to escape danger.

So, if moving, a 60 KPH mech can in fact escape a blast relatively unharmed, if not unharmed.

Also, artillery hurting slow targets. It's what it's always been designed to do. Now if it could reliably hit a fast moving target, then I could see a real problem with it.

Also, more information on the strikes can be found in this discussion: http://mwomercs.com/...y-arty-at-once/
I suggest you at least read Koniving's posts, he's known for being in the know and fairly accurate.

(PS: People place large engine on assaults not to dodge strikes, but typically to help move into action faster and help overall performance/dodging/positioning/reflexes.)

Right... and for information on why it's still impossible to escape an artillery strike that you can see the smoke canister in a mech that only goes 60 km/h, feel free to re-read http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2963673.

Also: I really didn't need that link you posted for me. I already know what the cooldown for strikes is because you remember that story I told about dropping an artillery and air strike one after the other on a team for 600 damage? That was a true story. I did them as close together as the game allowed - about 10 seconds.

Edited by Atheus, 05 December 2013 - 10:32 PM.

[Tesunie]

Atheus, on 05 December 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

Right... and for information on why it's still impossible to escape an artillery strike that you can see the smoke canister in a mech that only goes 60 km/h, feel free to re-read http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2963673.

Also: I really didn't need that link you posted for me. I already know what the cooldown for strikes is because you remember that story I told about dropping an artillery and air strike one after the other on a team for 600 damage? That was a true story. I did them as close together as the game allowed - about 10 seconds.

Then lets do the math again:
62 KPH (for your Atlas)

62KPH / 60 minutes = 1.033 KPM = 1,033 MPM (Meters per Minute)
1,033 MPM / 60 seconds = 17.216 MPS (Meters per Second)
60m (blast) / 17.216 MPS = 3.485 seconds of tavel time
You have up to 4 seconds before something drops, so... I shall now guess you are behind the smoke and wish to run through a longer way, instead of foolishly turning and aiming for a shorter side, because you seem to think in forwards and backwards only...
4 seconds x 17.216 MPS = 68.864 meters of travel before the threat drops. This gives you 8 meters to be behind the smoke and still escape easily.
However, if you see smoke, and turn as you move, you should be closer to an edge than if you were in the center of the smoke cloud, which means that, if you are moving, 4 seconds should still be enough time to get out of the way, for the most part.

So, where is your math? You said you did it up. I've even broken down my formula on how I figured out my math to show my work. I have seen no such attempts from you.

PS: If my 50ish KPH Shadowhawk can manage and survive, a faster mech should be able to manage even better. (And it moves 13.88 MPS, unlike most people's Atlases.) The trick is to not gather shoulder to shoulder, give your teammates space to breath and move, and to not stop moving in some fashion. You may still get hit with a strike, I do not deny that, but it is very possible to still escape them. The options you have as a pilot for a slow mech is to either not care and try to avoid strikes as you see them, or you can try and make it so no clear and good uses of strikes can be used against you. As a team, if you cluster next to each other, you make it easier for your opponents to use the strikes, making them more effective for them (like in your story). A good team can still focus fire and still have plenty of room between them, making it so no more than one or two mechs can be threatened with a strike, making your strikes less effective.

Also, your story, how much of that 600 damage was just strikes? Did you not shoot any other weapon? Did that group really stand still (don't disbelieve it personally) for 4+3+(10 cool down)+4= 21 seconds of remaining huddled together (not needing to stand still the whole time)? How much of your 600+ damage was strikes, and how much was damage you caused in the course of the game with your normal weapons? I don't disbelieve your tale, but I'd have to say that group didn't even try to avoid your strikes, and you sounded like you did good with your use of timing for it, use of terrain and where you used it, among other factors. It seemed like it might have been almost worth the 80,000 C-bills it cost to use those strikes... once. However, damage alone does not indicate someone's Elo, and neither for W/L nor K/D. We don't know what our Elos are, the most we can do is guess.

(Edit again: Spelling errors)

Edited by Tesunie, 06 December 2013 - 02:30 PM.

[Atheus]

Tesunie, on 06 December 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Then lets do the math again:
62 KPH (for your Atlas)

62KPH / 60 minutes = 1.033 KPM = 1,033 MPM (Meters per Minute)
1,033 MPM / 60 seconds = 17.216 MPS (Meters per Second)
60m (blast) / 17.216 MPS = 3.485 seconds of tavel time
You have up to 4 seconds before something drops, so... I shall now guess you are behind the smoke and wish to run through a longer way, instead of foolishly turning and aiming for a shorter side, because you seem to think in forwards and backwards only...
4 seconds x 17.216 MPS = 68.864 meters of travel before the threat drops. This gives you 8 meters to be behind the smoke and still escape easily.
However, if you see smoke, and turn as you move, you should be closer to an edge than if you were in the center of the smoke cloud, which means that, if you are moving, 4 seconds should still be enough time to get out of the way, for the most part.

So, where is your math? You said you did it up. I've even broken down my formula on how I figured out my math to show my work. I have seen no such attempts from you.

PS: If my 50ish KPH Shadowhawk can manage and survive, a faster mech should be able to manage even better. (And it moves 13.88 MPS, unlike most people's Atlases.) The trick is to not gather shoulder to shoulder, give your teammates space to breath and move, and to not stop moving in some fashion. You may still get hit with a strike, I do not deny that, but it is very possible to still escape them. The options you have as a pilot for a slow mech is to either not care and try to avoid strikes as you see them, or you can try and make it so no clear and good uses of strikes can be used against you. As a team, if you cluster next to each other, you make it easier for your opponents to use the strikes, making them more effective for them (like in your story). A good team can still focus fire and still have plenty of room between them, making it so no more than one or two mechs can be threatened with a strike, making your strikes less effective.

Also, your story, how much of that 600 damage was just strikes? Did you not shoot any other weapon? Did that group really stand still (don't disbelieve it personally) for 4+3+(10 cool down)+4= 21 seconds of remaining huddled together (not needing to stand still the whole time)? How much of your 600+ damage was strikes, and how much was damage you caused in the course of the game with your normal weapons? I don't disbelieve your tale, but I'd have to say that group didn't even try to avoid your strikes, and you sounded like you did good with your use of timing for it, use of terrain and where you used it, among other factors. It seemed like it might have been almost worth the 80,000 C-bills it cost to use those strikes... once. However, damage alone does not indicate someone's Elo, and neither for W/L nor K/D. We don't know what our Elos are, the most we can do is guess.

(Edit again: Spelling errors)

While I could math it out for you, I really have no reason to put that much energy into calculating common sense. I'd have to calculate the turning radius of an Atlas, which is a chore by itself, but aside from that it's meaningless. No Atlas is travelling at 100% throttle throughout an entire match, If you are, you're definitely not making use of cover. Nobody is going to drop an artillery strike on you when you're moving at full throttle in a certain direction without taking into account where you will probably be after 4 seconds of having a flair dropped right in front of you, if you are actually their target, in which case your option to avoid is to try to stop and reverse, try to turn, or whatever. Sadly, the Atlas just isn't nimble enough to get you out of that situation, though. That thing probably takes about 1 full second to make a 90 degree turn. Feel free to try it yourself.

I'm not saying that you can't mitigate your damage a bit if you find yourself a good 30-40m away from the smoke. It's certainly a good idea to move away from it as much as you can before the mortars drop, but to say you're going to get away fairly easily in a 60 km/h mech is just absurd. There just plain is not enough time to react, or there won't be a good escape route.

As someone who has been dropping artillery strikes every match for the past week, I have a pretty good feel for how it goes. People get pounded. Few escape. Few even notice the smoke before it's too late. I make sure of that by putting it somewhere clever. That's all it takes, and that isn't much.

Now your interest in that 600 damage match - as I said my team got reamed. The enemy team plowed through that 600 damage and obliterated my team shortly after because they were a disorganized mess. I was in a Jenner, and when it became a clear loss I just went kamikaze to get the match over with. I had 690ish damage for the match, and I estimated I did about 90 with my lasers based on how much shooting I did (very little) before it was over. I never implied anything about that match in relation to ELO, so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up. It was pretty simple, the enemy team was advancing through a very confined passage, I dropped strikes on them. They could not escape the strikes because not only was there little time to react and no escape route, but their own allies were in the way. Also, most of them probably never even saw the smoke until it was too late, because that's just how it is.

[Tesunie]

Atheus, on 06 December 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Wall of "I don't read other people's responses"

I never said that it was easy to escape a strike. I only say it is possible.

I still have as of yet to see any "math" on your side, but you did post links to a lot of helpful information that neither of us knew. My math proves that it is possible to escape a strike, even with a slow mech.

Artillery was designed to take on slow objects. The slowest mech in the game is an Atlas, so it is only reasonable that an Atlas, being the "fastest" slow mech around, will have additional problems with them. (AKA: Even with the largest engine, it's still not going to be as fast as many other mechs, even other assaults.)

I mention Elo as you mentioned being at high Elo (with skilled people), as that seems to be where this "problem" is. I'm just saying that we don't know what our Elo is, and that trying to figure it out by any reported stat isn't going to give any sense of accuracy. Maybe you are high Elo, maybe you aren't. We can't tell.

Your story is very plausible, and if it is true (I do not doubt you on that), then you used the artillery strikes as you should. You use good timing for them, place them well, and use terrain to your strikes best advantage. This is expected.

Half of the way you dodge a strike is to just stay on the move (not technically even trying to dodge the strike per say). This doesn't mean not using terrain nor never stopping. However staying in some form of movement, even bobbing up and down a hill, into or out of cover, etc, is usually a good idea. Most good pilots I see (unlike a Victor earlier today) stay in some kind of motion to dodge shots, move into and out of cover, etc. (The Victor in my match stood still and was deciding to play mid range sniper against a dual AC20 Jager, and got quickly cored with a nice hill right to the side of them.)

You keep making it sound like the strikes are impossible to dodge. All I'm proving, and have done so with hard math, is that it is in fact possible to dodge a strike within the 4 seconds in a 60 kph mech, if not even slower. I by no means said this would be easy, nor did I say it was simple. However, most pilots I know of find it possible to get out of a strike's main bulk of damage. Saying it is possible doesn't mean it is easy. It just says it is possible.

[Heffay]

Can we implement a "no more than 8 sentences" rule in K-town? Make some sort of forum bot that replaces anything after the 8th sentence with "TLDR".