297 replies to this topic

[WarHippy]

Bilbo, on 10 December 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

Maybe I should have said, if rewards were lower, a player would still be playing the game if they enjoyed it. Obviously there is breaking point where advancement doesn't seem possible, but I don't think we are there.

Therein lies the problem, some feel we have moved too far off course with the current income to time investment ratio. Opinions are going to vary as to where that line in the sand falls, but ever since the c-bill nerf the complaints have been louder and more frequent from a growing variety of players.

[Bilbo]

AC, on 10 December 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

You shouldn't have to grind for weapons and engines. They should be available for MC. It am sick of getting a mech with MC and then having to grind and grind and grind just to get it outfitted. And you have to do that 3 times just to get through the stupid pilot tree. It is a lame system and I am sick of it. There is no reason why I shouldn't be able to buy everything in the game with MC.

You can buy everything with MC even if not directly. If they allowed direct purchase of everything via MC, I cannot imagine they would make it any cheaper than the current method of buying an Atlas K and flipping it for the c-bills.

[Sandpit]

AC, on 10 December 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

You shouldn't have to grind for weapons and engines. They should be available for MC.

Now this? THIS is an idea and suggestion I agree with. I personally think they should have two separate markets. One for MC and one for C-bills. Anything you can purchase with c-bills should be available for purchase with MC

[xMEPHISTOx]

I disagree ^^^.
This game already has enough of a lack of progression that would only exasperate the problem. Nothing worse than a first day player who buys a top of the line 'end game' mech and thinks he is relevant and worthy. I really miss the progression of WoT, at least there I knew that although a person in a tier 10 may be a baddie but at least he earned that tier 10 tank with a substantial amount of game time invested.

[DaZur]

WarHippy, on 10 December 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Therein lies the problem, some feel we have moved too far off course with the current income to time investment ratio. Opinions are going to vary as to where that line in the sand falls, but ever since the c-bill nerf the complaints have been louder and more frequent from a growing variety of players.

Particularly unnerving is blasie commentary from some of MW:Os most ardent supporters.

Hey, quit looking at me...

[Roadkill]

AC, on 10 December 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

You shouldn't have to grind for weapons and engines. They should be available for MC.

Sandpit, on 10 December 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Now this? THIS is an idea and suggestion I agree with. I personally think they should have two separate markets. One for MC and one for C-bills. Anything you can purchase with c-bills should be available for purchase with MC

I agree. But I'd also reverse that - anything that's available for MC should also be available for c-bills, but not necessarily on a fixed scale. I'd be perfectly fine with Hero Mechs being available for MC but costing 5x more than the normal MC:c-bill conversion rate.

The more we hash this out in various threads, the more I think that the best solution would be to boost the Premium bonus. At the current base c-bill rate, +50% for Premium just isn't enough. Make it +100% for the paying players.

[Sandpit]

WarHippy, on 10 December 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Therein lies the problem, some feel we have moved too far off course with the current income to time investment ratio. Opinions are going to vary as to where that line in the sand falls, but ever since the c-bill nerf the complaints have been louder and more frequent from a growing variety of players.

That's like saying "Who wants the federal minimum wage cut?" Well nobody is going to want that.

Of course complaints will be louder when the earnings are cut. That doesn't mean it's "bad" though. Again, you can't balance a game (or at least you shouldn't) to the upper and lower ends of the spectrum. When you can safely say that 80% of the community is "afflicted" by the "grind" I might begin to change my opinion on it.

Roadkill, on 10 December 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

I agree. But I'd also reverse that - anything that's available for MC should also be available for c-bills, but not necessarily on a fixed scale. I'd be perfectly fine with Hero Mechs being available for MC but costing 5x more than the normal MC:c-bill conversion rate.

The more we hash this out in various threads, the more I think that the best solution would be to boost the Premium bonus. At the current base c-bill rate, +50% for Premium just isn't enough. Make it +100% for the paying players.

Nah, this one I can't. It's one of the few ways PGI has of earning income. There SHOULD be specific items available for MC only. That's what makes them "special" enough to spend MC on.

[Jon Gotham]

xMEPHISTOx, on 10 December 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

I disagree ^^^.
This game already has enough of a lack of progression that would only exasperate the problem. Nothing worse than a first day player who buys a top of the line 'end game' mech and thinks he is relevant and worthy. I really miss the progression of WoT, at least there I knew that although a person in a tier 10 may be a baddie but at least he earned that tier 10 tank with a substantial amount of game time invested.

Sorry mate I have to stop you there.
Those tier X players you talk about with their excellent 300 rating after 15k battles do not ever deserve that tier X tank. They will most likely cost their team mates credits and losses. Throwing yourself at that awful mm and utterly stinking economy enough times only winning 42% of your games is not earning anything.
You deserve those tanks when you can PLAY them.
It's the same reason I stay out of assault mechs, I am useless in them and would be a let down for my team.

[xMEPHISTOx]

kamiko kross, on 10 December 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

Sorry mate I have to stop you there.
Those tier X players you talk about with their excellent 300 rating after 15k battles do not ever deserve that tier X tank. They will most likely cost their team mates credits and losses. Throwing yourself at that awful mm and utterly stinking economy enough times only winning 42% of your games is not earning anything.
You deserve those tanks when you can PLAY them.
It's the same reason I stay out of assault mechs, I am useless in them and would be a let down for my team.

No argument with^^^...and as my post states 'they may be baddies' very clearly but I still say its better than no progression at all.

[DeadlyFred]

I want to know when it was written into law that progression systems are mandatory. Don't remember having to grind for the privilege of using a rocket launcher in Quake, nor to be able to spec out whatever mech I wanted in any previous Mechwarrior.

I understand "free" to play games need to make money and creating an artificial gear grind and then offering paid means by which to ease or entirely circumvent it is an easy way to do that without any effort on the part of the developer but at the end of day that's really what it is: lazy. Lazy paying for lazy.

Funny thing is, I honestly believe that in the current gaming market you'd have people arguing to be put on a grind treadmill rather than being given all their options upfront and immediately as it used to be.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadkill, on 10 December 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

Not sure how that's supposed to be relevant?

If a game is fun to play the reward is playing the game not the trinkets at the end I would believe.


I am not one to HAVE lots of Mechs, I am a Battlemaster Pilot without a Battlemaster. I have my (F)Atlas an Sara's Jenner. I am grinding Kintaros or a change of pace, But I am a Battlemaster Pilot. Once I have My ride, everything I make is wasted money as I will have nothing to spend it on. I would love to convert C-Bills to MC like in some other games. Neverwinter let you collect one "currency" in game, then let you exchange it for another currency. It was expensive to do, but if we could do it it would take a while, but I'd be able to buy Camo eventually with in game currency.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 11 December 2013 - 04:39 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

That's a good idea Joseph, converting c-bills to MC.

[Joseph Mallan]

kamiko kross, on 11 December 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

That's a good idea Joseph, converting c-bills to MC.

Its been mentioned here a few times and I could do something similar in Neverwinter, Like I said it was expensive, and slow, but it gave us the ability to P4F across the board. I could eventually get anything in game, that a paying player could. Heck they even had items you could only get by logging in every day and doing a daily prayer everyday for a year! That is one coin a day for 365 days. You could not Buy the item with cash! I don't have that kind of devotion to a game, but I liked the idea that there was SOMETHING in game that could not be gotten by throwing money at the game. A nod to the Free in free to play. Stuff to buy (That could still be gotten free), Even the "Founder" items could be bought in game... Cost you a metric ton of crystals but you could have the same Black Panther the Drow Founders paid for!

[WarHippy]

Sandpit, on 10 December 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

Of course complaints will be louder when the earnings are cut. That doesn't mean it's "bad" though. Again, you can't balance a game (or at least you shouldn't) to the upper and lower ends of the spectrum. When you can safely say that 80% of the community is "afflicted" by the "grind" I might begin to change my opinion on it.

We have no idea what the percentage of the community is that is "afflicted" by this, but there certainly are more people complaining now than before. As for balancing for the upper and lower ends of the spectrum I tend to agree, which is why I said the devs need to find a balance between too much and too little grind. Right now the per match income average for the player base is 79k according to the devs, and I think that is lower than it should be.

[Roadkill]

WarHippy, on 11 December 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

Right now the per match income average for the player base is 79k according to the devs, and I think that is lower than it should be.

So it's even worse than I thought. Yes, that's too low. IMO it should be about 100k, or the Premium bonus should be 100% instead of 50%.

[Sandpit]

El Bandito, on 10 December 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Post your KDR on your main. Let's see if your words and deeds match. I just can't grasp this idea that someone is so willing to die early on.

you've obviously never met team Derp
or
Know the meaning of Semper Fi

[3rdworld]

Joseph Mallan, on 11 December 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

Its been mentioned here a few times and I could do something similar in Neverwinter, Like I said it was expensive, and slow, but it gave us the ability to P4F across the board. I could eventually get anything in game, that a paying player could. Heck they even had items you could only get by logging in every day and doing a daily prayer everyday for a year! That is one coin a day for 365 days. You could not Buy the item with cash! I don't have that kind of devotion to a game, but I liked the idea that there was SOMETHING in game that could not be gotten by throwing money at the game. A nod to the Free in free to play. Stuff to buy (That could still be gotten free), Even the "Founder" items could be bought in game... Cost you a metric ton of crystals but you could have the same Black Panther the Drow Founders paid for!

After playing neverwinter, I immediately suggest currency trading here. Would make a ton of sense.

[Roadkill]

Sandpit, on 11 December 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

you've obviously never met team Derp

or Team Leroy

At least team Derp lives for a few minutes while it wanders around bumping into buildings. Team Leroy charges straight at the enemy and dies in seconds. I'M IN A SPIDER!!! I AM INVINCI<BOOM!>

[El Bandito]

Sandpit, on 11 December 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

you've obviously never met team Derp
or
Know the meaning of Semper Fi

I think you got Semper Fi confused with Leroy Jenkins.

[Sandpit]

El Bandito, on 11 December 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

I think you got Semper Fi confused with Leroy Jenkins.

Not according to my old D.I.s