565 replies to this topic

[Aethon]

dimachaerus, on 10 December 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

I was an MWLL alpha tester. Unlike almost every other member of our small community, I actually play this game, and despite a bunch of politics, wanted it to succeed. So far, it HASN'T.

This describes me as well. I want the game to succeed; I just got tired of caring.

It is like Duke Nukem Forever all over again...which was also developed by PGI...

[Legend_]

Aethon, on 10 December 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

This describes me as well. I want the game to succeed; I just got tired of caring.

It is like Duke Nukem Forever all over again...which was also developed by PGI...

I want this game to succeed as well.

Unfortunately patience has limits and I don't think I can wait until 2015 for CW to actually make an appearance (Bryan said at the launch event that the 3 CW stages would each be released over the space of 6 months, that's a year and a half until full release. As posted in the update, they still haven't started physically developing it, still sitting in planning, which puts it at least a few month behind schedule. Maybe 2015 is being optimistic and a true expectation of when CW will be in-game would be 2016).

[Vaan]

dimachaerus, on 10 December 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

I would just like to ask, what has my money gone towards? I got the Founders pack, the Overlord pack, hell, I've even bought a decent amount of MC along the way. I did it because I wanted this game to be as awesome as it could be, because I wanted a kickass mech "sim", and I wanted to support the guys making it.

Now? Now I constantly make "piggy" jokes on TS, and I'm on the verge of just writing this whole shebang off like all my friends did long ago.

My main reasons?

I was an MWLL alpha tester. Unlike almost every other member of our small community, I actually play this game, and despite a bunch of politics, wanted it to succeed. So far, it HASN'T.

It's been over two years now, TWO YEARS, that you guys have been working on this. We still have only a small handful of maps, two essentially indistinguishable game modes, a smallish selection of mechs, and have been sold on the dream of community warfare so many times that I'd like to nominate your managerial staff for used car salesman of the year, for the next decade.

You have an actual studio full of paid professionals, full access to the engine's inner workings, vastly superior hardware, and a comparatively HUGE community compared to what we had.

However, with just 10-15 volunteer devs (the number fluctuated as people came and went, many with only minimal experience who had to learn on the job), 10-15 volunteer testers (also fluctuated wildly, sometimes we'd only have two guys make it to the weekly test meetings) and a vastly smaller community, we put out more mechs, more game modes, more weapons, more "mech equipment", superior joystick support (totally hacked together by a single guy in the community), fewer game balance issues, and a HUGE assortment of maps (both community made and "official").

You mentioned you finally have working turrets? we had those ages ago, right from open beta. We had (also right from the start of open beta) up to 32 player matches on actual SERVERS instead of this "matchmaker" horror, allowing you to play with your friends/enemies on any map/gametype you chose, making leagues possible.

Notice how I didn't even mention the Battlearmor gameplay (with weapons and gear all it's own), Tanks, Aerospace assets, or that our maps had working Dynamic T.o.D., variable heat levels based on map location/weather/ToD/whatever, variable gravity, our mechs/tanks had working headlights/spotlights, roughly the same vision modes, and even:

*GASP* DESTRUCTIBLE TREES!

---
Let me be super clear here, MW:LL had ZERO funding, ZERO "Professional" devs, no access to the game's inner workings (We were a mod of Crysis, and then Crysis Wars), inferior hardware (whatever desktop/laptop you happened to have was it), and all work took place in our "free time". Yes, thats right, all of our work was done from people's homes all over the world, sharing files over SVN, and having meetings on Teamspeak severs hosted in a dude's basement. Not in some air conditioned office building in Vancouver.

Hell, we had two crazy eastern European guys who in a Coffee/Vodka fueled WEEKEND would crank out a mech or two, fully modeled, textured, rigged, and ready for weapons( this always led to a TON of arguments), stats, and final polishing. How many guys, and how many weeks does it take you guys to do the same? Mappers would crank out a solid stable map for testing in a week or two, in their spare time, and yet it takes you seemingly months to get a map out and you have stated that each one costs the equivalent of $250,000. Imagine all we could have accomplished with just ONE MAP'S worth of that cost.

Seriously guys, Step it up, PLEASE. We only yell at you because we care.

I think your money or all of us who had spend hell alot on this game have gone to PGI/IGP holiday spendings..

[Legend_]

Costs them $250,000 (Or the equivalent of) to do 1 map? Holy-shizzle.. I'd hate to think how much it would cost (Or the equivalent of) if they released maps that had been fully and properly designed, with no clipping on invisible terrain features, like being unable to shoot over small boulders and land croppings because they extend further than they physically appear.

[Jaded Helix]

I'm seriously excited for the new map. It might have something to do with being a lunar guard, or its just me
anyway new game modes...YES!!! I cant sit still

time to wait=sadness
I'm not to patient however you cant rush perfection especially in the mech bay

but there is one thing that i would like to see that hasn't been talked about, as far as I've seen.
when your looking at your mech for camo specs could we have 2 axis of rotation instead of just being able to spin the mech?
its a small thing but i would like to see more things other than the front, back and sides.

[anonymous161]

dimachaerus, on 10 December 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

I would just like to ask, what has my money gone towards? I got the Founders pack, the Overlord pack, hell, I've even bought a decent amount of MC along the way. I did it because I wanted this game to be as awesome as it could be, because I wanted a kickass mech "sim", and I wanted to support the guys making it.

Now? Now I constantly make "piggy" jokes on TS, and I'm on the verge of just writing this whole shebang off like all my friends did long ago.

My main reasons?

I was an MWLL alpha tester. Unlike almost every other member of our small community, I actually play this game, and despite a bunch of politics, wanted it to succeed. So far, it HASN'T.

It's been over two years now, TWO YEARS, that you guys have been working on this. We still have only a small handful of maps, two essentially indistinguishable game modes, a smallish selection of mechs, and have been sold on the dream of community warfare so many times that I'd like to nominate your managerial staff for used car salesman of the year, for the next decade.

You have an actual studio full of paid professionals, full access to the engine's inner workings, vastly superior hardware, and a comparatively HUGE community compared to what we had.

However, with just 10-15 volunteer devs (the number fluctuated as people came and went, many with only minimal experience who had to learn on the job), 10-15 volunteer testers (also fluctuated wildly, sometimes we'd only have two guys make it to the weekly test meetings) and a vastly smaller community, we put out more mechs, more game modes, more weapons, more "mech equipment", superior joystick support (totally hacked together by a single guy in the community), fewer game balance issues, and a HUGE assortment of maps (both community made and "official").

You mentioned you finally have working turrets? we had those ages ago, right from open beta. We had (also right from the start of open beta) up to 32 player matches on actual SERVERS instead of this "matchmaker" horror, allowing you to play with your friends/enemies on any map/gametype you chose, making leagues possible.

Notice how I didn't even mention the Battlearmor gameplay (with weapons and gear all it's own), Tanks, Aerospace assets, or that our maps had working Dynamic T.o.D., variable heat levels based on map location/weather/ToD/whatever, variable gravity, our mechs/tanks had working headlights/spotlights, roughly the same vision modes, and even:

*GASP* DESTRUCTIBLE TREES!

---
Let me be super clear here, MW:LL had ZERO funding, ZERO "Professional" devs, no access to the game's inner workings (We were a mod of Crysis, and then Crysis Wars), inferior hardware (whatever desktop/laptop you happened to have was it), and all work took place in our "free time". Yes, thats right, all of our work was done from people's homes all over the world, sharing files over SVN, and having meetings on Teamspeak severs hosted in a dude's basement. Not in some air conditioned office building in Vancouver.

Hell, we had two crazy eastern European guys who in a Coffee/Vodka fueled WEEKEND would crank out a mech or two, fully modeled, textured, rigged, and ready for weapons( this always led to a TON of arguments), stats, and final polishing. How many guys, and how many weeks does it take you guys to do the same? Mappers would crank out a solid stable map for testing in a week or two, in their spare time, and yet it takes you seemingly months to get a map out and you have stated that each one costs the equivalent of $250,000. Imagine all we could have accomplished with just ONE MAP'S worth of that cost.

Seriously guys, Step it up, PLEASE. We only yell at you because we care.

Agreed it always seems like people who mod a game do it from ground up on their free time get a lot more done and with much better results than so called paid professionals.

Just look at the star trek franchise in the early 2000's bridge commander anyone? That game was aweful until they let people tweak it and it became one of the best if not still the best space sims ever. You have the total war series that on it's own without mods just plain sucks but with mods it made it so much more fun I still play shogun 2 fall of the samurai crazy fun, there is mechwarrior 4 mercenaries fans who added a ton of mechs and weapons that made it vastly more enjoyable those are just some games that benefited from outside help and they were not paid.

Hell one of the top modders for bridge commander was brought to a studio to make star trek legacy...as soon as he was paid to work with them though he lost all respect as far as I remember, his talent was wasted on that game, you dont even see that game at stores anymore it's ultra rare.

I'm just tired of having only 2 game modes that are the same pretty much, and very few maps to choose from.

Give it to a group of college students they can give us all the stuff in no time compared to these devs.

[Ram71]

Respawn in a MechWarrior game???? Has the world gone mad???? Next you'll be adding 3rd person view.

Edited by Ram71, 11 December 2013 - 03:22 AM.

[MingTheMerciless]

Nice update; while most of us players have mentally detached MWO from the entire BT universe ( ) it's canon, it's history etc - the game is still fun and I am happy about the update. Very interested about the new map and the pilot talents.

[Ensaine]

This update was 100% worthless to me. Nothing more than a rehash of past promises/statements......

Community Messaging: REHASH

Information was supposed to flow more freely based on PGI posts from 8 or so months ago......

UI 2.0: RECYCLE

We're getting a broken UI, where we get to pull our hair out. You thank us for feedback, yet, do what YOU guys want to do anyways. Should have been out months ago.

Community Warfare: REHASH

Nothing we haven't heard, except that any physical work hasn't begun yet. REALLY? And the best you guys can come up with for a Community Update, is a rephrasing of what's already been told to us? Why not just show that craptastic video from the Launch Party.

Gameplay: ABOUT TIME

You guys could have had this in game at the same time you put out night versions of the maps. A no brainer really.

BattleMechs: REFUND

Moar cash grabs, and time sinks. Better to work on these, and hero mechs, than core elements, like, I dunno, a Lobby? Like just about any game has?

Clans: ********

Did anyone actually believe CT would just get dropped in at it's TT strength? I did, as Clantech was one of the key idea's I bought with my Founder's pack. Regretting that purchase, I can only imagine those unhappy few with Phoenix mechs on top of Founders. You can bet they're in development, as they're an upcoming cash grab.... gotta have that $$$


Map Gameplay Elements: REDUNDANT

Like nobody saw the new spawn points already.

Player Experience: REDACTED

What about the New Player experience? Broken Training Grounds, Broken movement (bowel) tutorial. I'd be embarrassed to have anyone run through that absolutely garbage Movement tutorial.

What about the new player? He who is forced to read weeks of forum posts to have any real idea that this isn't Call of Duty in stompy robots? Because, that's exactly how most new players play this game. They still have no clue about the importance of sticking with their lance, or even why there are blue and green triangles on their mini map........

This issue is one of the MOST broken elements of this game.

The Next Map: REFRESHING

Ok, great, a new map. Personally, I'd give up the new map for some real core issues to be looked at.



-------------

Overall, I feel PGI is in over their heads. They raised 5 MILLION dollars from us Founders, put out basically what we have now, minus a few maps, and a slew of Premium mechs.

My confidence in their ability to make this game as good as it SHOULD have been has evaporated. Much too much time spent on Sales.

'They need revenue' ... true, and this whole fiasco points to a poor business plan on inception. Now, it seems like we're watching the Little Dutch boy at the dam.

Please, PGI, sell this thing off. I really do feel you'd earn more respect, than by letting it circle the drain, as it's close to doing now.

Post was 99% fluff. Only thing I learned, that's new, is CW hasn't seen a line of code yet.

Edited by Ensaine, 11 December 2013 - 03:50 AM.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Some questions we may want to ask the Dev.'s about there current list of maps and future projects.

What exactly is required to build a map?

Without the corporate meetings and discussion merry-go-round, the continuing submit, revamp, submit, test, alter, test, tree route. Handing the map off to designers, artists, engineers, testers and corporate, what does it take to get a "test" stage map out.

If this is the same engine that "Modder's" have built many maps for "that other game/mod" (MW:LL) then what is stopping PGI from asking for "submitted" player designed maps? Is it a code release issue? Does this game not use the same graphics components found within the CryEngine? Is there a legal issue with allowing outside parties to build terrain/map components for the franchise? Is it a "it's ours and you can't have anything" issue?

Now before you go posting "we know what they do to design maps" as seen in the "Penny Arcade" posting, see here: http://www.penny-arc...am-creates-worl

there has to be a faster process that could bring in talented map and level designers from outside PGI. The amount of volunteer talent, or possibly paid, that could be tapped is stupid to ignore. Just the amount of ideas for map locations and types is probably outside what PGI could design in 2 or 3 years. (using the current timeline for there maps) There was even a rumor that some of the map designers from "MW:LL offered to build maps for MWO "for free" and they were turned down. If this is true there has to be issues we don't know about when it come's to map design.

There has to be a way to get the community involved and build a working relation with PGI, have submission contests for map layouts with prises. Strict guidelines on what terrain types PGI is looking for on each map, tools that need to be used, programs required, it's a doable thing. Once a selection is accepted as a prime entry, the Dev.'s can step in and offer the designer assistance or direction of what, how and where things are needed. Everybody gets what they wanted, and ideas and creations happen much faster. [now that's in a perfect world, but here we are, so use what you have, people that want to help]

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 11 December 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[Reno Blade]

As a developer of a big company myself I can say that more than 50% of the time for any new/changed module is analyzing and planing.
From what we know (CW needs UI2.0) we can guess/expect/whatever that CW coding didn't start, but that doesnt mean, it didn't progress behind the szenes.
As long as we don't see anything, we can just speculate, but that doesn't help us or them in any way.

I hear comparison to other companies/games often, but you know that creating a game from scratch does not just take 5 million and then you are done in x months.
Even the (what is it now? ) 30million for SC will not be enough. SC could need about 100million to work out and it will take at least 3 years to get the "cherry on top" what they planed/promissed you/us.
If players are so un-patient like here, the game will have only hardcore fans after the first "launch" year. Much more like MWO I expect.

While a lot of players asked for new player experience, we have a lot of video tutorials already. If you are really in need of a tutorial, check the video section.
Many players check for gameplay videos anyway before getting a game.

Refund/Clans: LoL
Founders have nothing to do with clans. If you want refunds, you are the one to cash grab. Using your hotel room for a year and then asking for a refund because the new pool that was planned is rescheduled for the next year? uh-hu.

It was said that due to the F2P aspect this game will always be in constant development to add content and stuff. No body can blame them for their "beta" type of doing this. (Read the small font letters below the contract you sign. No refund for you!)
Their big baby UI2.0 will speed up the rest, so lets be patient and enjoy our days on the battlefield while we live.

You might not notice guys, but the only effect your constant complaining has is the negative influence on players reading the forum. You are ruining other peoples moods, reducing the fun of reading and posting in the forum. It's as if you enjoy to torment others more than you enjoy playing the game itself.
Please try to reduce your seriousness and relax a bit.

[Heffay]

Aethon, on 10 December 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

This describes me as well. I want the game to succeed; I just got tired of caring.

It is like Duke Nukem Forever all over again...which was also developed by PGI...

That's not true. DNF just contracted out a portion of the game to PGI, and it had nothing to do with the gameplay or content itself.

chiXu, on 10 December 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

Unfortunately patience has limits and I don't think I can wait until 2015 for CW to actually make an appearance (Bryan said at the launch event that the 3 CW stages would each be released over the space of 6 months, that's a year and a half until full release.

That's not true either. They said 6 months for all three phases total.

[anonymous161]

Reno Blade, on 11 December 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

As a developer of a big company myself I can say that more than 50% of the time for any new/changed module is analyzing and planing.
From what we know (CW needs UI2.0) we can guess/expect/whatever that CW coding didn't start, but that doesnt mean, it didn't progress behind the szenes.
As long as we don't see anything, we can just speculate, but that doesn't help us or them in any way.

I hear comparison to other companies/games often, but you know that creating a game from scratch does not just take 5 million and then you are done in x months.
Even the (what is it now? ) 30million for SC will not be enough. SC could need about 100million to work out and it will take at least 3 years to get the "cherry on top" what they planed/promissed you/us.
If players are so un-patient like here, the game will have only hardcore fans after the first "launch" year. Much more like MWO I expect.

While a lot of players asked for new player experience, we have a lot of video tutorials already. If you are really in need of a tutorial, check the video section.
Many players check for gameplay videos anyway before getting a game.

Refund/Clans: LoL
Founders have nothing to do with clans. If you want refunds, you are the one to cash grab. Using your hotel room for a year and then asking for a refund because the new pool that was planned is rescheduled for the next year? uh-hu.

It was said that due to the F2P aspect this game will always be in constant development to add content and stuff. No body can blame them for their "beta" type of doing this. (Read the small font letters below the contract you sign. No refund for you!)
Their big baby UI2.0 will speed up the rest, so lets be patient and enjoy our days on the battlefield while we live.

You might not notice guys, but the only effect your constant complaining has is the negative influence on players reading the forum. You are ruining other peoples moods, reducing the fun of reading and posting in the forum. It's as if you enjoy to torment others more than you enjoy playing the game itself.
Please try to reduce your seriousness and relax a bit.

You're telling me that a game with a few maps, dated engine, and arcade game style takes a 100 million to make? wtf are you smoking dude? This is a bare bones simple mp game. All I see in this game anymore is cash grabs nothing more. They have made promises that they have repeatedly broken. Dont tell us to start giving them high fives and telling them they are doing just fine. The game at it's current state after TWO years is not tolerable. Not if they are gonna charge 30 bucks for assault mechs buddy. It's why there are fewer and fewer people playing! You may be ok with waiting 5 years for this game to reach it's peak performance but at this rate it's not gonna last another year. They have fumbled badly with this franchise and frankly not sure why they bothered.

I'd have more respect and hope if they just shut this down and gave it to a dedicated team that are known for quality games, and for getting it done in reasonable time.

This might have started out as mechwarrior but it's not anymore which is a shame.

Edited by Darth Bane001, 11 December 2013 - 05:16 AM.

[Heffay]

Darth Bane001, on 11 December 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

The game at it's current state after TWO years is not tolerable.

No? I played a bunch of matches last night and had a fantastic time. The gameplay is quite enjoyable.

[Tekadept]

Heffay, on 11 December 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

No? I played a bunch of matches last night and had a fantastic time. The gameplay is quite enjoyable.

GG or QQ is always a matter of Perspective.

[Reno Blade]

Darth Bane001, on 11 December 2013 - 05:13 AM, said:

You're telling me that a game with a few maps, dated engine, and arcade game style takes a 100 million to make? wtf are you smoking dude? This is a bare bones simple mp game. All I see in this game anymore is cash grabs nothing more. They have made promises that they have repeatedly broken. Dont tell us to start giving them high fives and telling them they are doing just fine. The game at it's current state after TWO years is not tolerable. Not if they are gonna charge 30 bucks for assault mechs buddy. It's why there are fewer and fewer people playing! You may be ok with waiting 5 years for this game to reach it's peak performance but at this rate it's not gonna last another year. They have fumbled badly with this franchise and frankly not sure why they bothered.

I'd have more respect and hope if they just shut this down and gave it to a dedicated team that are known for quality games, and for getting it done in reasonable time.

This might have started out as mechwarrior but it's not anymore which is a shame.

Thanks for missreading my post.
I wrote 100million for Star citicen.

I waited over 10 years with only the worst MW game: MW4.
Now I played 1 year of decent MWO. It did not get worse, it grew slowly, but for some, thats too slow.
I and you (we all) are part of the growing game. If you wanted to have a finished game, you should not have bought Founders pack and have waited for Launch or later (next year when CW is complete) instead.
Why you/we didn't? Because we love Mechwarrior and want to be part of it.
Right?

[Legend_]

Heffay, on 11 December 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

That's not true. DNF just contracted out a portion of the game to PGI, and it had nothing to do with the gameplay or content itself.



That's not true either. They said 6 months for all three phases total.

So, you're trying to tell me that an aspect of the game that hasn't even seen a line of code thus far is going to have all 3 phases completed and released within the next 3 months? (Seeing as that 6 month number was given 3 months ago).

Let's not forget, UI.2.0 has been in development since spring and they've only just managed to put out a couple of highly questionable tests within the last month or so.

[Zulu1]

I have to say, I am not a regular forum poster but am disappointed with the progress and this update so felt I would post some feedback. I still play as I have a couple of friends who are relatively new and their enthusiasm keeps me interested. I belong to a unit and 50+ of our members have become disenfranchised (and subsequently stopped playing) with the game which stinks because I really enjoyed doing drops with them. Up until now I have been the lone voice within our group trying to get the team interested by telling them things are moving along but am finding that increasingly difficult to do.

-z

[Heffay]

chiXu, on 11 December 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

So, you're trying to tell me that an aspect of the game that hasn't even seen a line of code thus far is going to have all 3 phases completed and released within the next 3 months? (Seeing as that 6 month number was given 3 months ago).

Let's not forget, UI.2.0 has been in development since spring and they've only just managed to put out a couple of highly questionable tests within the last month or so.

I'm telling you what they said. The person I was quoting was mistaken when he mentioned that PGI stated it was 18 months of work.

Whether you believe it or not is really a bit moot. You'll believe whatever you want to believe.

[lpmagic]

Chemie, on 02 December 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Yah because spliting the queue is worth adding a "death match" which is the same as assault except no base cap (which was essentially eliminated with slower cap times except when a team was dumb enough to allow 4+ players on their base). What % of assault games ended with a cap? <10% i bet.

Dude, you need to take some time away from the game, it is obvious you dislike it now. Stop dragging people down the rabbit hole and move to something you enjoy. At the very least were getting communication now.

Happy to see some semblance of momentum here, keep it going guys.