148 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

Roughneck45, on 05 December 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

The only reason to use one is if you have trouble aiming the other pinpoint damage weapons. LBX is noob friendly.

I think it's a noob trap. They might fool someone "but some of those pellets hit"... But on average, you will hit just as badly and deal just as little damage as with a pinpoint weapon or a duration based weapon. Unless for some reason you are completely and utterly incapable of actually hitting an enemy under any circumstance, in which case you need to clean that ball inside your mouse, or replace ith with a modern optical mouse, or you're using a steering wheel.
Oh, well, there is the possiblity that you're lagging like hell, in which case you can only pray for better internet connection and/or servers in your region.

[Roughneck45]

MustrumRidcully, on 05 December 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

Unless for some reason you are completely and utterly incapable of actually hitting an enemy under any circumstance,

Yup, that's the only reason. It is an inferior weapon, but if you can't hit a damn thing with any of the other ballistics, you may as well use it until you get better.

[MustrumRidcully]

Roughneck45, on 05 December 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Yup, that's the only reason. It is an inferior weapon, but if you can't hit a damn thing with any of the other ballistics, you may as well use it until you get better.

But can you get better with a weapon that doesn't give you the feedback you need to get better?

I mean, of course we use training wheels to teach our children how to ride a bike. But I kinda fear that this is like replacing the pedals with an electric motor.

Ah, well, maybe you're right and it can work.

[Roughneck45]

MustrumRidcully, on 05 December 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

Ah, well, maybe you're right and it can work.

Depends how you define work.

Im going with "Yay, my reticle turned red!", instead of "Wow, this is a really effective weapon!" lol

[Selfish]

LB10 is a pure brawling weapon, and should be used on mechs that are going to mount 2+ and tank face (like an old school brawling atlas). On average, it deals 13 damage per salvo against internals, and each LB10 will nearly match the AC/20 in DPS. Top on the ability to reliably knock out 20 HP of items per LB10 shot and you have a mean counter to brawlers.



If there were actually brawlers on the field LB10s might enjoy their niche. Their lack of range puts them at a disadvantage to mobile fire supports, and lack of pinpoint makes them weak against smaller components. Poptarts and a smattering of lights dominate the field, and it's been 3 months since PGI broke SRMs. I can't currently think of a reason to take LB10s right now except for fun, but I wouldn't say they're broken.

[Eaerie]

Maybe keep the LB10X as a shotgun and revert all the other AC's into short burst fire weapons along the lines of a burst duration of .5 seconds then it goes into cooldown like a laser. the .5 seconds would allow for some damage spread, AC20 damage spread over 5 increments. but it still shorter than even a pulse laser but reduces the pinpoint damage a bit while leaving the LB10X viable as an alternative.

[Ngamok]

@Selfish

I like your graph. Yes, LB-X 10s are purely for brawling. I know once a fight has started and everyone is mixing it up, I get lots of kills with them from critting internals. But it the enemy is entrenched and shooting LRMs or doing their poptart thing, it's basically useless. In PUG matches they are fine. In competitive play, no.

[Piney II]

Selfish, on 05 December 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

LB10 is a pure brawling weapon, and should be used on mechs that are going to mount 2+ and tank face (like an old school brawling atlas). On average, it deals 13 damage per salvo against internals, and each LB10 will nearly match the AC/20 in DPS. Top on the ability to reliably knock out 20 HP of items per LB10 shot and you have a mean counter to brawlers.

This.

I run an Ilya with 3 LB10s as a brawler. It's nasty when its up close and personal.

Fun mech.

[C E Dwyer]

not all weapons should be the same strength, but alot of the problems with the current meta are that not only did PGI add heat scale and nerfed ppc's and the gauss, they did ytheir usual fail, and made the fidelity of the zoom module crystal clear, turning the game into sniper room time, which in an imobile game loses some of the lbx19 add vantages, as a mobile more fluid game with make it feel less sub par with the other AC's

[aniviron]

CapperDeluxe, on 03 December 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

If the LB10X had a tighter spread pattern (even if its only within the first 250m) then it could be better. Maybe up to 50% tighter grouping, I dunno they could play with that number some but that's the only way I see it becoming a reasonable weapon.

The spread has been tightened, what, five times now? It's significantly closer than it used to be, I would guess that at 540m you're hitting an area 1/4 what you used to. And it's still not as good enough.

That should tell you something- everyone keeps asking for the LB10 to be more like the AC10 (less spread) which implies pretty strongly that the LB10 is not as good as the AC10, and that to make it as good as the AC10, it either needs to deal pinpoint damage (which would make it better than the AC) or do something else that the AC can't, and no, crit-seeking doesn't count. Anyone who has been opened up enough for the bonus crit damage to matter is dead anyway.

So the LB needs something else, like more damage, faster fire rate, more ammo/ton, or some combo therein.

Cathy, on 05 December 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

not all weapons should be the same strength

I'm curious as to why not? I mean, obviously a small laser shouldn't be as effective as a large laser in the aggregate, but given that every weapon takes up resources, why should some weapons just be worse than others, ton-for-ton, also considering that all weapons take up hardpoints?

The game becomes much richer when there are a wealth of tactical options available to every player, and all those options are good ways to win. Remember the 7 months where the PPC was just clearly and obviously the best weapon, and how much everybody hated that? Why would you want weapons which are better than others? Is balance not a desirable thing?

[Deathlike]

aniviron, on 05 December 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

So the LB needs something else, like more damage, faster fire rate, more ammo/ton, or some combo therein.

QFT

Why do you speak to my heart like that, when I know PGI won't make this happen anytime soon?

[Thejuggla]

I think it would be a lot better if its total damaged equaled around 14-16. It spreads out at longer ranges so you will pretty much never get the full damage to one location, so it makes it more of a brawling weapon or softener at longer ranges.

[Mycrus]

You can't all equip your 70+ mechs with the same AC+PPC.. The lbx is just "there"... Why not?

[Deathlike]

Mycrus, on 05 December 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

You can't all equip your 70+ mechs with the same AC+PPC.. The lbx is just "there"... Why not?

Usually, I get woefully disappointed by them, even after the spread change.

The difference actually is 1 ton and 1 crit, which is worth consuming for the AC10 over the LBX10.

[MustrumRidcully]

Deathlike, on 05 December 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

QFT

Why do you speak to my heart like that, when I know PGI won't make this happen anytime soon?

You probably have been a bad person in your last life,and are now punished for your sins in the new life. Given the torture you're enduring, I figure you spoke in the theatre.

[Deathlike]

MustrumRidcully, on 05 December 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

You probably have been a bad person in your last life,and are now punished for your sins in the new life. Given the torture you're enduring, I figure you spoke in the theatre.

It would be nice to dream, but alas, that was never the case.

[Praehotec8]

Ngamok, on 05 December 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

@Selfish

I like your graph. Yes, LB-X 10s are purely for brawling. I know once a fight has started and everyone is mixing it up, I get lots of kills with them from critting internals. But it the enemy is entrenched and shooting LRMs or doing their poptart thing, it's basically useless. In PUG matches they are fine. In competitive play, no.

This...exactly this. I LOVE my dual LBX ON1-V, it just shreds mechs up close. Using at greater then 200m however is a complete waste of ammo. Sometimes, even one LBX is worth it for the extra ton you get back compared to the AC10.

Competitive games sound really boring, honestly. You can call me a scrub all you want, but it's much more fun when all weapons are viable, which will NEVER happen in competitive matches....the weapons are too different and without major changes from BT/MW, will never all be almost equal. Can we get closer to that, sure, but competitive players will still always choose only the weapons giving the most "edge" to win, despite what that does to the fun of the game...to them, fun is only achieved once the WIN screen appears.

P.S. SRMs need hit registration fixed, and a slight buff. Period.

[MonkeyCheese]

Got one on my 130kph cicada, run around and blow chunks of bigger mechs once the fights start happening.

On a fast platform hunting backs of bigger mechs seems to work fine but on slower larger mechs I would rather take an AC10

[hybrid black]

yes they are very usefull most people say there not but my best mech has had one on it for months and crits are amazing when you find ammo since all it takes is one pellet to hit ammo and boom that part is gone.
i can get an average damage of 600+ with it, but thats my opinion and it fits how i like to play. if you want message me and il give you the build

[Roland]

I love reading the posts by the folks who think their lbx garbage mechs are effective.

They aren't effective. The weapon is trash. Whatever level of effectiveness you are achieving with lbx, you would do better with other weapons.

In terms of actual combat effectiveness per ton, the lbx is easily one of the worst weapons in the game.

If you think your lbx are good, I urge you to replace them with other weapons, and compare your effectiveness.

In terms of how to fix them, the answer to that is easy. Just do what prior mechwarrior titles have already done, and increase the damage to 1.4 per pellet. That will make them only somewhat better at range, while making them devastating infighting weapons, which is exactly the niche they should fill.

I seriously doubt we will ever see this change though, despite how obvious it is, given that the lbx has been a trash tier weapon since back in closed beta.

Edited by Roland, 06 December 2013 - 07:57 AM.