106 replies to this topic

[elismallz]

FWIW I've been having reasonable success using 4xLRM5's on my Battlemaster along with a somewhat respectable laser load out of 2xLL and 2xML (I think) and BAP. The 5s have a short enough cool down to where you can fire one after the other when you've got a clear LOS for proper spamming and decent damage, while a single shot can be used to scare baddies into cover without committing 15 -20 missiles. All this works great with the lasers (or swap in PPCs at leisure) as your primary damage dealer.

All that being said, this build is more fun for me than mashing a button when I get a lock while standing behind a hill. If that's your deal than this strat may not work.

Edited by elismallz, 07 December 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

I just tried out the streak shadowhawk and wow....even though streaks need a huge lockon time (yes i have a BAP), they actually do some damage unlike LRMs.

Its a serious struggle to do 200 damage with LRMs alone but with streaks, thats not a problem. You need to dump about 500+ LRMs to get a measly 200 damage....and that damage is spread out everywhere. Unlike pinpoint PPC/Ballistics.

Also the idea of chainfiring weapons to stunlock someone and prevent them from fighting back is incredibly cheesy and has never been a good idea in the entire history of MW games. It makes fights a matter of whoever fires first to stunlock, wins.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 08 December 2013 - 01:01 AM.

[Vanguard319]

You do realize that UAVs see through ECM right? If you're scouts are doing their jobs, (I always carry an improved UAV on my lights) then you have a window of opportunity to unleash lurmpocalypse before it runs out of fuel. Even if your missiles are missing due to cover, you still have your opponent pinned down and rendered ineffective, until someone on your team moves to mop up. It sounds like you are using strategies your teams are not built for. If you are pugging, you should never boat LRMs since you may be rendered useless if you have no lights to scout, or your opponents have sufficient ECM cover.

Edited by Vanguard319, 08 December 2013 - 01:26 AM.

[ImperialKnight]

I think the topic should read "Slow LRM Boats played by players who don't choose their targets are useless"

LRMs are not some magic fire and forget weapons. You have to pick targets carefully to maximise damage and not fire at every red triangle that comes up. Poptarts, nope. Peek-a-boos, nope. Lights on an all out sprint with AMS, nope. Enemies moving between tall buildings or cover, nope. Enemies moving in the open, yup. Enemies engaged in a brawl with friendlies, yup.

And what's up with people bringing 4xLRM20s and only 6 tons of ammo?

[Jun Watarase]

Vanguard319, on 08 December 2013 - 01:25 AM, said:

You do realize that UAVs see through ECM right? If you're scouts are doing their jobs, (I always carry an improved UAV on my lights) then you have a window of opportunity to unleash lurmpocalypse before it runs out of fuel. Even if your missiles are missing due to cover, you still have your opponent pinned down and rendered ineffective, until someone on your team moves to mop up. It sounds like you are using strategies your teams are not built for. If you are pugging, you should never boat LRMs since you may be rendered useless if you have no lights to scout, or your opponents have sufficient ECM cover.

LRMs do next to no damage even in perfect scenarios where you can just sit there and spam LRMs. Read the OP again carefully.

UAVs also only last 60 seconds and can be shot down. Im not sure if they are a consumable, but if they are thats another reason why mos tpeople dont mount them.

The random nature of the matchmaker is extremly unfair for LRMs since you can keep running into ECM heavy teams that neutralize all LRMs. ECM is just ridiculously OP for that reason, a single one makes an entire blob immune.

Even assuming the enemy team has no ECM, no AMS and is not hiding behind rocks while sniping with PPC/Ballistics....your LRMs do next to no damage to them.

Feel free to tag while a lance of victors/highlanders core you with sniper FOTM.

knightsljx, on 08 December 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

I think the topic should read "Slow LRM Boats played by players who don't choose their targets are useless"

LRMs are not some magic fire and forget weapons. You have to pick targets carefully to maximise damage and not fire at every red triangle that comes up. Poptarts, nope. Peek-a-boos, nope. Lights on an all out sprint with AMS, nope. Enemies moving between tall buildings or cover, nope. Enemies moving in the open, yup. Enemies engaged in a brawl with friendlies, yup.

And what's up with people bringing 4xLRM20s and only 6 tons of ammo?

Read the OP carefully, especially the part where cicadas can tank LRM spam.

[Smitti]

OP, i cannot disagree more.

Decided to go get a CPLT-A1 lately since i'm currently sporting a cast and cant aim very well, so I figure I'll rock the LRM boats for a bit until I can get said cast removed and get some wrist articulation back.

It is without a doubt my best performing mech to date. Highest win/loss and K/D of anything I own, and so far usually doing decent damage most matches. Awesome kill stealer/suppressor and to teammates a fantastic source of spotting revenue. That's mostly pugging, too. Getting similar results with my BLR-1S boat.

[arghmace]

The thing with LRM's is that they are not the easy mode as many claim. They are in fact the hardest weapon to use effectively. If you're up to it, they can be fun but I agree that usually they're not worth it - especially in high level 12v12.

[HeavyRain]

In my opinion, it's not worth bringing LRM when you drop solo. You need coordination with your teammates in order to be successful with LRM, or very high situational awareness. If you feel you must use them, then choose a fast mech that can reposition quickly and stay close to the main force of your team.
Also, it's a mistake to think your position should be around 1000m behind the front lines, spamming LRM from safety. Follow the frontline mechs from a small distance and try to fire at 500m or closer. Your missiles need much less time to reach the target, you have a much better idea about who your teammates are focusing on so you can help and it's less likely for a light to come mess with you when there is a friendly 150m away.

P.S
When you see that ECM Atlas in plain view and you can't get a lock, dumb-fire your missiles at him, most of the times they will hit and he will start to back off, giving your teammates an opportunity to finish the job while he is distracted.

[August55]

Jun Watarase, on 08 December 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

I just tried out the streak shadowhawk and wow....even though streaks need a huge lockon time (yes i have a BAP), they actually do some damage unlike LRMs.

Turn on Artemis for an even faster lockon time with streaks. Technically a bug, but for us right now it's a feature.

Edited by August55, 08 December 2013 - 07:52 AM.

[Serapth]

arghmace, on 08 December 2013 - 02:41 AM, said:

The thing with LRM's is that they are not the easy mode as many claim. They are in fact the hardest weapon to use effectively. If you're up to it, they can be fun but I agree that usually they're not worth it - especially in high level 12v12.

This, exactly this.

No offence OP, but you clearly do not know how to pilot a LRM boat if you are having trouble breaking 200 dmg with LRMs, especially with a D-DC missile boat. They are a skill, and as arghmace said, probably the hardest weapon system in the game. If you know what you are doing though, you should easily be doing 300+ damage every match and when that stars align, it's LRM boats that break the 1000 damage mark.


You've gotten a few good pieces of advice. First, the biggest skill is to learn which targets to shoot at. Over 800m? Unless its a stationary target you are probably wasting a shot. Fast light... same deal. Learn to fire un targeted, especially at high traffic areas like the crest on Frozen City, or the entranceways in Mordor. The ideal range for LRMs is probably 350-600m, gives you the chance to evade and get a couple volleys in, but keeps you far enough back to evade.


Here is the biggest suggestion I can give you... like me, you PuG. The last patch heavily broke the PuG game. You simply cannot 100% boat LRMs anymore. You need a direct fire backup, period. The 2x15+4ML Catapult was a good suggestion, but I would personally swap a ML for tag. The Awesome is a very capable LRM mech, but if you pug dont run 4 LRM15s, you are asking for trouble.

As an example, I am currently leveling up the Awesome series and the 8R I run with the somewhat unconventional config of 295XL, 2xLRM15, 1xLRM10, Artemis, 2 LL, Tag. Over 27 matches over the last few weeks I averaged 425 damage 100% pugging. When you figure the number of matches that end with 0 damage due to cap races, or those rare matches where you just get smoked because the match maker completely crapped the bed... the key to that build is 1) speed to reposition 2) ability to tag so you arent useless when facing ECM 3) reasonable backup fire when LRMs are useless ( like undergroun or when swarmed with ECM ).


TL;DR -- LRMs are fine, you ability to use them is not. The recent changes however do make running a pure LRM boat in PuG complete suicide. But then, recent changes have made dropping as a PuG pretty much suicide.

[Josef Koba]

The only measure of success I've ever had in running an LRM boat was with the Awesome with 4x LRM15s. For a time it was like pressing an easy button because mechs died in short order. Of course, my LRM tactics are probably not so good because I've not had success with any other combination. I use an LRM10 on my DDC for harassing fire, but that's about it. I do know that others must have success because I often see a lot of LRMs in the sky and they always seem to be coming for me!

The multi-LRM5 Catapult is a lot of fun, though.

[Bleah]

I have a LRM45 stalker with 6 MLs. It's great, and most of my LRMs do hit, if the target is stationary or slow. I CAN'T get one shot out of 45 to hit a moving light in open field, ALL shots hit the ground behind them and no damage is registered so visual inconsistency is not the problem, good thing for the MLs. Hit registration problem is rather obvious in this case and 85% repeatable and some dumb run away light that should be easy kill proves to be a big problem for LRM builds.

I din't do 5% dmg to a spider and neither did a CPLT in my lance, the ******* practically teased us and laughed at us while we wasted >150 shots (assuming the cplt fired at least half as many as me), got to fire 2.5 salvos, before searching for another target, farther away.

[Daemir]

LRMs are horrible yea. No, they just need a tiny bit team coordination. Blackie and me running lurms, with 2 in our lance to spot and back us up.

[lshtaria]

Jun Watarase, on 07 December 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

This from the guy who ran full speed solo into the enemy team and then got focused fired down....the funny thing is the LRMs hitting you did the LEAST damage of all weapons....

"Trying to sneak through the tunnel but not seeing the ECM Cicada watching the exit, who lit me up for the whole team to stomp on"

...is a hell of a lot different to...

"the guy who ran full speed solo into the enemy team and then got focused fired down"

You do well in some matches, not so well in others. That's the way it goes. I don't do too bad normally, 100% PUGing in my Shadow Hawk.



It basically proves the totally blinkered view that some gamers have of the real and virtual world around them when what actually happens in no way matches their distorted perception.

But as I said originally, lurms are fine in our world even though your clouded judgement says otherwise..

[Troa Barton]

Your post is like a AC20 raven complaining that he has to go so slow to carry one.
Take the lrms off your fatlas and make a proper atlas out of it.
I agree lrms are kind of a waste on a balanced mech by itself, but even still your "slow clap" for using them in a premade is also stupid..
This game revolves around tactics and teamwork.. a good team can make anything OP.
Lrms are fine you're just doing it wrong.
And your complaint about a sniper being too OP... Direct fire is the counter to missiles. if anything missiles are up right now because of the lack of "effective" sniper fire.

http://youtu.be/pemRnsvvhZM

Edited by Troa Barton, 08 December 2013 - 07:57 PM.

[Troa Barton]

Also get advanced target decay if you're going to run LRMs... it is a must have otherwise you're wasting your time without buddes on coms.
also positioning is EVERYTHING if you're going to use missiles. there is a lot more that goes on to lrm piloting than getting a lock and lolololing your way to victory.

Edited by Troa Barton, 08 December 2013 - 07:52 PM.

[hercules1981]

Troa Barton, on 08 December 2013 - 07:36 PM, said:

Your post is like a AC20 raven complaining that he has to go so slow to carry one.
Take the lrms off your fatlas and make a proper atlas out of it.
I agree lrms are kind of a waste on a balanced mech by itself, but even still your "slow clap" for using them in a premade is also stupid..
This game revolves around tactics and teamwork.. a good team can make anything OP.
Lrms are fine you're just doing it wrong.
And your complaint about a sniper being too OP... Direct fire is the counter to missiles. if anything missiles are up right now because of the lack of "effective" sniper fire.

http://youtu.be/pemRnsvvhZM

I love direct comments like this one and I agree he is doing something wrong I don't know what nor do I care I don't have these problems but then again my LRM platform isn't the chassis everyone wants to shoot at the most either.

[Grey Black]

Find someone who knows how to spot. Hell, if you want, I'll log on and spot for you if you'd like.

Really, spotting and scouting are a lost art in this game. Knowing exactly when to pop your UAV, knowing how long you need to hold your TAG for, knowing if (GASP AND AMAZEMENT) NARC is called for in your build (believe it or not, there ARE uses! Not many, and TAG is strictly better, but that's neither here nor there,), then getting the [REDACTED] out of there before your arse gets blown sky high.

As to LRMs not being competitive, the LRMs have a huge advantage over the PPC/AC10/Gauss Rifle/LBX/whatever: You don't actually have to see your target to fire. They are meant as a suppression tool, and always have been. Look at TT: The Catapult had 2 LRM 15s, but its main firepower was probably the 4 medium lasers it had. It stood back long enough to get in a couple shots and weaken things up, and then move in and smash.

In saying that, they are highly difficult to use without someone you know and trust. I feel like there's a metaphor in there about "Only do it with someone you trust", but I doubt the censors will let me post it...

[Elder Thorn]

Jun Watarase, on 07 December 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

You will still die to snipers. While your LRMs hit a rock uselessly. Or you wont be able to fire LRMs at all due to ECM And a tag wont help the sniper/rock problem. Doesnt matter which mech you bring, you run into the same problems.

Disagreeing with you here.
Well, yes you will die to Snipers in a straight shoot out. But they have to aim, you just have to look in their general direction. For me it seems fair that they have an advantage over LRM Boats when it comes down to simple shootouts.
I keep running an AWS-8R with great success (i'd caputre it for you, but the game keeps crashing for me when trying to capture). The AWS has a huge benefit over the Atlas as a LRM Boat: Agility. I can force them to retreat to cover while i can maintain movement and go arround them, so they don't have cover anymore. While i am moving, they have a harder time hitting me, than they would have if i'd be in an Atlas, because the Atlas is even taller and even slower.
The trick is, not to hang back and think of the LRM Boat as some kind of artillery, but to utilize environment and agility to get to better firing positions. Also try to work with your team. While i would not rely on the team to TAG enemys for you in a PUG, a LRM Boat is not a great solo mech at all. If you get caught allone, well... they will just close in on you. You either kill them before they are close or you die. But i don't see a problem here, you have advantages and disadvantages, sounds fine to me.

Edit: i am talking aout PUG matches here. In premades it might be different, i am not a good premade player as long as i have to command it and it's been a while since my unit was able to field enough people to get a premade running, most people are pissed off by this game and left.

Edited by Elder Thorn, 09 December 2013 - 12:18 AM.

[Colonel Tequila]

...mumble mumble.... fix CPLT ears.....