106 replies to this topic

[Dirty Old Man]

I use to think so too... that LRMs are poorly implemented.... however, my team mates have proven me wrong time and time again. With my lance which has only 1 Catapult LRM boat, it was used with deadly aggression...I now feel its the combination of modules with the pilot skills and the right equipment and team mates that truely makes or breaks the LRM support role...

[NuclearPanda]

Jun Watarase, on 07 December 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

[insert weapon here] works well when stacking teams with a premade.

*slow clap*

Try pugging with LRMs and being unable to fire any LRMs due to ECM and let me know how that works. Especially when a premade of AC40 jagermechs starts running straight for you.

Relax kid. Assumptions only make a *censored* out of yourself. I pug frequently, more often than not, and I tend to stream the gameplay live while doing it on Twitch for our website. LRMs tend to be fine.

Is it the end all, be all weapon? Absolutely not. You're going to have great matches and you're going to have poor ones. It's the nature of the beast with the game in general.

AC40 Jagers also aren't that scary. I've ran in 12 mans before and for giggles most of the team was running JagersBombs. In fact more games were lost than won just because range is an issue in them.



I'm also quite sick of all of this talk about "premades ruining the game". It's really not friggin hard to find people to play with in this game, in fact it's a whole topic that's pinned directly to the top of the NEW PLAYER HELP section!

http://mwomercs.com/...then-look-here/

Stop whining. This is a game of teamwork.

Dirty Old Man, on 09 December 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

I use to think so too... that LRMs are poorly implemented.... however, my team mates have proven me wrong time and time again. With my lance which has only 1 Catapult LRM boat, it was used with deadly aggression...I now feel its the combination of modules with the pilot skills and the right equipment and team mates that truely makes or breaks the LRM support role...

Exactly. Advanced Target Decay, utilizing TAG properly, and proper pilot manuevering is all important for LRM success.

Jun Watarase, on 08 December 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

I just tried out the streak shadowhawk and wow....even though streaks need a huge lockon time (yes i have a BAP), they actually do some damage unlike LRMs.

Its a serious struggle to do 200 damage with LRMs alone but with streaks, thats not a problem. You need to dump about 500+ LRMs to get a measly 200 damage....and that damage is spread out everywhere. Unlike pinpoint PPC/Ballistics.

Also the idea of chainfiring weapons to stunlock someone and prevent them from fighting back is incredibly cheesy and has never been a good idea in the entire history of MW games. It makes fights a matter of whoever fires first to stunlock, wins.

If you're doing 200 or less with LRMs then you're doing it wrong. And chainfiring is important also. Are you even bothering with TAG or line of sight? Artermis? Anything?

Stunlock is a non-issue. If the other pilot was any good they would A- bring AMS B- find cover behind something C- power down for a moment to disrupt the enemy's lock on them.

Edited by NuclearPanda, 09 December 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[rageagainstthedyingofthelight]

First, gratuitous LRM video:




Second, if you want an LRM boat that does all the work for you, you'll need a Battlemaster 1S (XL engine, 2 LRM15, 2 LRM10 and I bring 4 small lasers just to be a jerk to light mechs). My son boo's me when I play it, because it is an unfair, cheesy build that I only use when I want to see stupid high numbers on my screen (I can be the first casualty on my team and get 400 damage).

Third, get the advanced target decay module. It's what kills the poptarts, because you'll still have lock on them after they drop down. At under 500, it's a guarantee hit. And I consider the LRM boat to be the answer to the AC 40 Jagers, because you can kill them faster than they can face smash.

Fourth, in PuG's, you probably want a faster missile platform. Slow missile boats are fine in teams, but otherwise, put and XL 300 in a Cat or what ever, but don't go under 70 kph. Contrary to popular belief, you need to close in with LRM's. There's never any reason to fire on a target at 800+ meters, except on Alpine, where it's just funny.

Some people use Tag, I bring an ER PPC as my only back up weapon, drops the ECM long enough for a Lock/Fire and it's usually scary enough to keep out the riff-raff.

Last, don't listen to peeps who diss the DDC as an LRM boat. Our lance last night was a Quickdraw, a Dragon, Atlas-K and me in a DDC (ac20, 2ML, 2 LRM15) and I was getting 500-800 and our lance was doing over 2000 while maintaining an 8 game win streak.

[Jun Watarase]

So can all the people who are claiming they do tons of damage in their LRM boats (mostly in premades) explain how 2x LRM-15s LRMs fail to do anything to cicadas with artemis? Well? Thee's no explanation for why lights or mediums should be able to tank 10 volleys with minor damage.

Also still no explanation for :

-How to stop terrain blocking LRMs, since all someone has to do is reverse behind a rock to make you useless

-How to get LOS/TAG when snipers focus fire you (and reverse behind a rock to block your LRMs)

-How to fire LRMs indirectly with mass ECM on the field

Also once again its not an achievement to do well with any weapon in a premade. I've seen people try to pug with LRM boats and they usually fail epically due to all the above reasons. The only thing they can kill are assaults that slowly walk out in the open, allowing them to TAG + dump LRMs on them. Also its really hilarious to see a AC40 jager pop out behind a corner and kill them in 3 volleys while they desperately try to reverse to no avail. Yea sure i've seen LRM boats get high scores sometimes, but that requires the stars to align and a very stupid enemy team.

And for the multiple people that are refusing to read my original posts where i clearly outlined that i had artemis, seriously, stop posting and go back and re-read the whole thing carefully.

It is literally impossible to fire LRMs with ECM, with no spotters and when you cant use TAG because a lance of victors/highlanders are dumping PPC/Ballistics into your CT across the map. Anyone claiming otherwise is lying. No, sync dropping in a premade where you beat up some newbies in trial mechs don't count. Try playing the actual game against opponents who use cover, AMS and ECM instead of stacking teams.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 09 December 2013 - 11:38 AM.

[NuclearPanda]

Jun Watarase, on 09 December 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

So can all the people who are claiming they do tons of damage in their LRM boats (mostly in premades) explain how 2x LRM-15s LRMs fail to do anything to cicadas with artemis? Well? Thee's no explanation for why lights or mediums should be able to tank 10 volleys with minor damage.

ANSWER - LRMs will never be "effective" against lights, or mediums doing over 100kph especially when combined with AMS measures. Hitting them while they are stationary, or legged, would work however but your chances of this are minimal. LRMs should never be viable against mechs that are travelling that fast otherwise this would severely imbalance the game in general. They're not "tanking" the damage. They're avoiding it through speed.

Also still no explanation for :

-How to stop terrain blocking LRMs, since all someone has to do is reverse behind a rock to make you useless

ANSWER - Terrain should never NOT block LRMs. This is the whole point of finding cover. Is a mech behind cover that LRM's can't pass over? Then stop shooting your weapons and wait it out, retreat backwards behind your front line attackers and look for other targets in the meantime. You don't expect magic mountain piercing missles do you?

-How to get LOS/TAG when snipers focus fire you (and reverse behind a rock to block your LRMs)

ANSWER - Not sure how a sniper can simultaneously focus fire at you AND be behind a rock avoiding your LRMs. In this case you should do one of two things. Is he focus firing on you? Then why don't you reverse behind a rock and avoid HIS shots, while asking teammates to keep him targeted/painted so you can still fire on him. Is he hiding behind a rock to avoid your incoming missles? See previous answer.

-How to fire LRMs indirectly with mass ECM on the field

ANSWER - TAG is your friend. TAG pierces ECM. Teammates using PPCs can also disable ECM for you. Work with your team. Your team is your friend. Not on a team? Blasphemy. You're always on a team, you're just choosing not to communicate with them.

Also once again its not an achievement to do well with any weapon in a premade. I've seen people try to pug with LRM boats and they usually fail epically due to all the above reasons.

ANSWER - I'd be happy to run PUG matches all night in my Awesome LRM boat to prove you wrong. Let me know when you're free. I can give you lessons.

The only thing they can kill are assaults that slowly walk out in the open, allowing them to TAG + dump LRMs on them. Also its really hilarious to see a AC40 jager pop out behind a corner and kill them in 3 volleys while they desperately try to reverse to no avail. Yea sure i've seen LRM boats get high scores sometimes, but that requires the stars to align and a very stupid enemy team.

ANSWER - See previous answer. Some matches are good, some aren't. This is the nature of the beast.

And for the multiple people that are refusing to read my original posts where i clearly outlined that i had artemis, seriously, stop posting and go back and re-read the whole thing carefully.

ANSWER - I've read your previous posts and the only thing I can conclude is that you're just not very good with the weapons or don't understand how they work.

It is literally impossible to fire LRMs with ECM, with no spotters and when you cant use TAG because a lance of victors/highlanders are dumping PPC/Ballistics into your CT across the map. Anyone claiming otherwise is lying. No, sync dropping in a premade where you beat up some newbies in trial mechs don't count. Try playing the actual game against opponents who use cover, AMS and ECM instead of stacking teams.

ANSWER - Again with the whole "premades suck and therefore I am terribad and complain on the forums" arguement. Check out the above link in a previous post about how easy it is to find a group to play with. Don't feel like doing that? Then communicate in-game using team/lance chat functions. It's really not that hard to do.

I'll be honest man, all you're doing is seriously complaining. You haven't offered a single suggestion for what you would do to change LRM mechanics.

Edited by NuclearPanda, 09 December 2013 - 12:08 PM.

[Zarakynel]

I would have to agree with NP, People are blocking your shots with rocks? Maneuver to where they either take the rain from you or the direct fire from the rest of your team. Use YOUR rocks to block their shots and let others tag stuff for you. I run tag on most of my mechs that don't have missiles anyway, so do a bunch of others. The great thing about tag is, even if they have 12 ECM mechs, the tag will still light one up for you.

Another nifty trick: buy a UAV. They turn off ALL ECM under them. Run up to 250m away, launch it, run back. The enemies will either A) scatter like roaches once you start raining on them or get rained on with skillful use of positioning.

[Daemir]

Jun Watarase, on 09 December 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

So can all the people who are claiming they do tons of damage in their LRM boats (mostly in premades) explain how 2x LRM-15s LRMs fail to do anything to cicadas with artemis? Well? Thee's no explanation for why lights or mediums should be able to tank 10 volleys with minor damage.

Also still no explanation for :

-How to stop terrain blocking LRMs, since all someone has to do is reverse behind a rock to make you useless

-How to get LOS/TAG when snipers focus fire you (and reverse behind a rock to block your LRMs)

-How to fire LRMs indirectly with mass ECM on the field

Also once again its not an achievement to do well with any weapon in a premade. I've seen people try to pug with LRM boats and they usually fail epically due to all the above reasons. The only thing they can kill are assaults that slowly walk out in the open, allowing them to TAG + dump LRMs on them. Also its really hilarious to see a AC40 jager pop out behind a corner and kill them in 3 volleys while they desperately try to reverse to no avail. Yea sure i've seen LRM boats get high scores sometimes, but that requires the stars to align and a very stupid enemy team.

And for the multiple people that are refusing to read my original posts where i clearly outlined that i had artemis, seriously, stop posting and go back and re-read the whole thing carefully.

It is literally impossible to fire LRMs with ECM, with no spotters and when you cant use TAG because a lance of victors/highlanders are dumping PPC/Ballistics into your CT across the map. Anyone claiming otherwise is lying. No, sync dropping in a premade where you beat up some newbies in trial mechs don't count. Try playing the actual game against opponents who use cover, AMS and ECM instead of stacking teams.

You can take a gander at the screenie I posted last page, that was one game of maybe 6 rounds we played with 2 LRM carriers in our lance and each ended similarly. If being in group with 1-3 of your mates somehow invalidates my whole point, regardless of us doing 2000 dmg by the 2 of us, then err, maybe this game isn't for you? You claim it's impossible to do this and that and how it can't be done, but we did it just fine, without syncing up an 8 or 12 man or whatever. Sorry you can't replicate our success, but the fault does not lie within LRMs.

Oh, first kill we made in the first round of those games with LRMs, was a Jenner who got cored from the rear by waves of LRMs. Because you know, we didn't start shooting from 900 meters, we waited until he got within 300 when it was too late for him to back off after noticing the first missiles.

Edited by Erish II, 09 December 2013 - 01:11 PM.

[Cest7]

With LRMs its not the size of the launcher that matters... Its the ammount of ammo you pack on,

[Elder Thorn]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 09 December 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

Fourth, in PuG's, you probably want a faster missile platform. Slow missile boats are fine in teams, but otherwise, put and XL 300 in a Cat or what ever, but don't go under 70 kph. Contrary to popular belief, you need to close in with LRM's. There's never any reason to fire on a target at 800+ meters, except on Alpine, where it's just funny.

totally agree with you here. It's what i said erlier: keep moving. If you hang back in a PUG and are using LRMs you probably won't have that much fun. Which leads to the next point:

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 09 December 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

Last, don't listen to peeps who diss the DDC as an LRM boat. Our lance last night was a Quickdraw, a Dragon, Atlas-K and me in a DDC (ac20, 2ML, 2 LRM15) and I was getting 500-800 and our lance was doing over 2000 while maintaining an 8 game win streak.

I am one of those LRM DDC Haters. The DDCs i hate are those with 3 LRM 15 and that is pretty much it though. Those guys are usually slow as *** in addition to not being able to defend themselfes against a stationary locust.

Edited by Elder Thorn, 10 December 2013 - 07:30 AM.

[rageagainstthedyingofthelight]

Well, I should point out my DDC LRM loadout is 2 15's, 2 ML's, an AC20 w/ 325 standard. I'm of the belief you should never go full boat.

[Grey Black]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 10 December 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Well, I should point out my DDC LRM loadout is 2 15's, 2 ML's, an AC20 w/ 325 standard. I'm of the belief you should never go full boat.

... Am I the only person thinkin Tropic Thunder? Never go full boat?

[NuclearPanda]

Grey Black, on 10 December 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

... Am I the only person thinkin Tropic Thunder? Never go full boat?

Nope, I was going to post a meme picture but I didn't think anyone would have found it as amusing as I lol.

[Nightcrept]

@op

I run lrms. I do so to mainly kill steal because honestly they are far too situational to be useful for anything else.

What you're running into curently it the typical elitist game think vs the lone gamer. Think of it as communism vs capitalism.
It's ruined many many online games. Especially if game designers listen or cater to one side more then the other.

While there are far more lone wolf players on the internet the hard core team gamer is an integral part of any successful online game.

That being said.
Unfortunately In this game weapons designed to be good in solo play are going to be op in team play.


Currently the game designers have decided to pander to the pre-mades. In the future they will be forced to create some sort of pug friendly game mode or this game will indeed die. They know this. Most likely the deathmatch and arena modes will have to have their own weapons balancing or be horribly messed up....lol.

Until then though this game is extremely extremely un-friendly to the typical gamer. As you have discovered in the design of LRm's and the response you got for bringing that up.

But if you love giant stompy robots as much as I do then stick around or check back periodically. It'll work out. If not we'll move on like we always do.

[Grendel408]

Dear OP... LRMs work perfectly fine, and have worked perfectly fine for months now... I've killed with them, and been killed by them. Now, I run my CPLT-C1(F) with 2 LRM15+Artemis, 3 MLs, 1 TAG, and AMS... I have no issues obtaining kills or damaged, and this is while running 4man groups or going pug status by myself... If you're constantly having this issue, I recommend grouping up with players and drop together, or work more as a team member should in pug matches... communicate.

[Colonel Tequila]

I for one would love to see the implementation of a module 'Missile Velocity' - 'Missile Spread'.

Velocity - Allowing the ability to reach out to the targets at 700+m and have a better chance to get them before target lock fails.

Spread - A toggle'd module allowing pilots to switch dispersal patterns. Giving the ability to bombard areas in LOS. Also allows higher chance to hit fast moving targets, due to the wider grouping 'direct hits' would be more akin long range LBX blasts.

====================

Opening Poster, LRMs in PUGs or 4mans serve similar purposes. However with the LOS restrictions playing among others where you can co-ordinate can certainly help target acquisition. It is possible to break 1000 dmg even in a solo PUG group - it's hard work though, positioning is the key more often then not.

Opening poster describes a 'perfect' situation' - to me 'perfect' is.....
OpFor has ECM they are behind the valley on Crimson Straits. Me : lean over the valley TAG for fast lock volley 60 missiles at 200m.

This frequently is the perfect situation, using an LRM as a shotgun has devastating results.
Defeat OpFor ECM through direct LOS and quick response damage.
Why put yourself 400-800m away and fight through layers of cover and poor lock situations, when you can be on the front line with the other Brawlers. When the enemies try press you back you have 3/4/5/6 brawlers itching to smash that armor you just weakened up.
As others have suggested - Boating. Either your LRMs are a primary weapon - CPLT A1, AWS-8R, STK-5M. Or use them as a combined arms approach - others have mentioned Atlas DDC with 2x15 racks with laser and ballistic primary weapons.

I would suggest trying the AWS-8R. Frequently have less issues against 'fast movers' cicadas and the like, using this mech. Due to the dispersal pattern, I find using Artemis on certain LRM mechs can be a hindrance when trying to hit fast movers. Even with Artemis the AWS fires it's volley in a solid wall, lending to a wider 'shot' on target.

LRMs - Situation awareness, playstyle, mech and mech loadout. Play around with any of those and you should see different results. Top marks to the guys that use PPC instead of a TAG

Edited by Colonel Tequila, 10 December 2013 - 02:10 PM.

[Abivard]

Jun Watarase, on 07 December 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

[insert weapon here] works well when stacking teams with a premade.

*slow clap*

Try pugging with LRMs and being unable to fire any LRMs due to ECM and let me know how that works. Especially when a premade of AC40 jagermechs starts running straight for you.

Try equipping BAP or TAG like an LRM boat should have, LRM's are not broken, the Pilots skill is what is at fault.

[deforce]

ummmmm.... half the time i take a lerm boat, ppl are QQing at the end of the match. omgggg lermz OP

[rageagainstthedyingofthelight]

Black and Panda, that was the reference I was going for, without running afoul of the censors

[Blacke]

rageagainstthedyingofthelight, on 11 December 2013 - 01:48 PM, said:

Black and Panda, that was the reference I was going for, without running afoul of the censors

Not sure I get what you said.

[Pataine]

I just want LRM's to spread all over just like streaks. Being cored out as all damage goes CT is BS. Yes I know its not table top but it would make sense for them to spread all over. Yes Artemis and TAG can help MORE hit not More hit a specific location.