362 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

Hoaggie, on 07 December 2013 - 10:39 PM, said:

If an assault mech puts on a engine large enough to keep up with mediums it’s going to have about the same armament as a medium. There are major drawback do doing that.

DaZur, on 07 December 2013 - 11:01 PM, said:

Bare in mind those Assaults and Heavies had to sacrifice something in order to net that speed beit and XL engine, armor and or firepower.

We're not even talking about speed here, we're talking agility and tracking ability.

Fully mastered, and with its stock 300-rated engine, an Atlas is nimble enough to track any 'mech in the game at ranges over 50m. Just by turning. No arm movement, not torso twist, just turning. A and D keys, no mouse required.

That's a stock engine Atlas, and you have to get under 50m and go 170kph to stop it being able to track you by just turning.

Add torso twist to that, and it's able to track a target going 180kph at ranges over 25m.

Tell me what enormous sacrifice the poor Atlas had to make to use the stock engine it came out of the factory with?

[Prezimonto]

I would like to see the mech efficiencies scales and specified to each class and then each mech, rather than the generic tree we now have.

So the basic efficiencies would be specific to that class of mechs.

Lights might get bonuses spotting and scouting roles(things like increased range on basic radar and, increased turn radius, and speed tweak).

Mediums might get the heat benefits, some better than average increased turn radius and speed tweak, along with something like an increased twist/stop and start acceleration.

Heavies might get the lower weapons cycle times, heat management, and bonuses to twist speed, but not turn radius (things that make them better at giving and taking damage, but not moving).

Assaults should get a bonus to twist speed, and something like a general damage reduction bonus to torsos ( as if they had bay doors, and stacks with it).

Elite skills could all be mech specific and could include bonus module slots, all the way through bonuses to running certain weapons types.

Master are the variant specific and might do things like: Give the awesome 8Q a dispensation to fire 3 PPC's with no heat penalty, or give the Catapult A1 a built in lock time benefit for LRM launchers, or give the Hunchback 20 bonus armor slots on the Hunch (or damage reduction at that hard point), or give the locust 5V the ability to soak up a little more leg damage from falling.

This would be much more dynamic, it would give the devs points to help balance chassis better as well.

[ColonelMetus]

if you lower assault's agility no one is going to play them anymore as anything except missile boats, if assault's agility is lowered then their armor should be increased by at least 25%

[kapusta11]

Less agile? Can you people think at least 1 step ahead. I can kill assault in a light 1vs1 already. They can't accelerate fast enough so even blind can hit them, that's the reason why people whine about pinpoint damage btw. The problem of mediums is that they are big, slow, have no armor and **** loadout.

Edited by kapusta11, 08 December 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[Bront]

IMHO, Mediums are mostly fine, Lights are mostly fine, but Heavies and Assaults are a little too agile.

Part of that comes from torso twist speed being based off of the engine, which hits slower mediums the worst, and slower heavies not enough.

I think the bigger problem is that there's a lack of a lot of fast medium options. There's 1-2 Treb options and the Cent-D (though the Wang isn't too bad speed wise). Sadly, the only fast IC 45 tonner is the Phoenix Hawk, which isn't coming.

[GoManGo]

This thread is wrong the mechs are not agile enough MWO mechs are 1/2 AS agile as MechWarrior4 mechs were and about 1/4 as agile as the mechs in MechWarrior3. Please if they slowed the MWO mechs down any more we might as well just change the game to turned based and get it over with. Scrap the game and close the servers

Edited by GoManGo, 08 December 2013 - 11:12 AM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

GoManGo, on 08 December 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

This thread is wrong the mechs are not agile enough MWO mechs are 1/2 AS agile as MechWarrior4 mechs were and about 1/4 as agile as the mechs in MechWarrior3. Please if they slowed the MWO mechs down any more we might as well just change the game to turned based and get it over with. Scrap the game and close the servers

Really - care to show me your data to back this up? Or is it yet another "I hate this idea so everybody else does" opinion?

[xMEPHISTOx]

GoManGo, on 08 December 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

This thread is wrong the mechs are not agile enough MWO mechs are 1/2 AS agile as MechWarrior4 mechs were and about 1/4 as agile as the mechs in MechWarrior3. Please if they slowed the MWO mechs down any more we might as well just change the game to turned based and get it over with. Scrap the game and close the servers

A 100 ton (20,000 pounds/90,718.5kg) mech with agility is an oxymoron.
As they are is fine, but if were made to be any quicker/faster than they are would be just silly and would start feeling like a twitch game ie. hawken or some other {Scrap} of its like.
While I do not necessarily agree w/the OP on this matter I also vehemently disagree w/the idea of making them more agile, especially the assaults.

[stjobe]

ColonelMetus, on 08 December 2013 - 10:34 AM, said:

if you lower assault's agility no one is going to play them anymore as anything except missile boats

The idea isn't to lower just assault's agility, the idea is to lower everything's agility by removing the pilot skills that (mobility-wise) turn assaults into heavies, heavies into mediums, and screws mediums over.

kapusta11, on 08 December 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

I can kill assault in a light 1vs1 already.

Good for you. You're supposed to, you know. Light beats assault, medium beats light, heavy beats medium, assault beats heavy, light beats assault.

kapusta11, on 08 December 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

The problem of mediums is that they are big, slow, have no armor and **** loadout.

Not really, but if it was, it would be because they need to stuff so much engine in there to compete with the fast heavies.

The problem with mediums is that the pilot skills we have make sure there's nothing they can do that a heavy can't do better.

Edited by stjobe, 08 December 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[GoManGo]

Really - care to show me your data to back this up? Or is it yet another "I hate this idea so everybody else does" opinion? =Don't be a fool just load up MechWarrior3 or MechWarrior4 and play the games its really not rocket science to see the agility differences in the games DUH.

A 100 ton (20,000 pounds/90,718.5kg) mech with agility is an oxymoron.
As they are is fine, but if were made to be any quicker/faster than they are would be just silly and would start feeling like a twitch game ie. hawken or some other {Scrap} of its like.
While I do not necessarily agree w/the OP on this matter I also vehemently disagree w/the idea of making them more agile, especially the assaults. = Im not saying faster im saying more agile as in turn rates R-L and F-R acceleration times. DUH peoples kids they should teach then how to read.

Edited by GoManGo, 08 December 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[GoManGo]

P.S you would think for 5million dollars they could make a decent game and a forums that you did not have to edit 20 million times to make 1 Fing post right .

[Durant Carlyle]

If you used the quote and multiquote features, it would look better.

[xMEPHISTOx]

GoManGo, on 08 December 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

P.S you would think for 5million dollars they could make a decent game and a forums that you did not have to edit 20 million times to make 1 Fing post right .

Or you just need to slow down and learn to use them appropriately. ::sigh:: kids today.

Durant Carlyle, on 08 December 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

If you used the quote and multiquote features, it would look better.

Features for quoting are fine but how hard is to use [quot][/quot].

***Edited for addition.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 08 December 2013 - 11:59 AM.

[Artgathan]

xMEPHISTOx, on 08 December 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

As they are is fine, but if were made to be any quicker/faster than they are would be just silly and would start feeling like a twitch game ie. hawken or some other {Scrap} of its like.

It's funny that you mention this since in Hawken the "Light" mechs can actually outmaneuver the "Heavy" mechs in CQC.

[Adiuvo]

kapusta11, on 08 December 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

Less agile? Can you people think at least 1 step ahead. I can kill assault in a light 1vs1 already. They can't accelerate fast enough so even blind can hit them, that's the reason why people whine about pinpoint damage btw. The problem of mediums is that they are big, slow, have no armor and **** loadout.

You aren't fighting good assault pilots then.

Top assault vs. top light and the assault will win every time. Lights don't move fast enough and an assault mech only needs to hit you twice.

Edited by Adiuvo, 08 December 2013 - 12:40 PM.

[Reitrix]

The efficiencies really should of been unique to each weight class.

[XX Sulla XX]

They are fine the way they are. There are other things that are really broken that need the work instead.

[Greyboots]

Look, we all know that HEavies are being used as "mediums with armour" and Assaults are being used as "heavies with more armour". Both possible speeds and agility makes these approaches viable. Anyone saying anything else just hasn't been playing long enough to work this out yet.

At this point I just can't find myself caring one way or the other. Eventually this is going to change as they keep talking about "mech specific trees" as well as "this OR this" selection methods in the Mech trees. The Devs know there's an issue, they just have no idea when they'll be able to get around to actually doing it.

In the end, I'd actually have no problems with the current state of affairs if I could fight back. In my mediums I get chased down by larger mechs ONLY because they know there's very little chance I'll do any significant damage back. They have huge weaponry and lots of armour and chances are that, in my Mediums, I'm unlikely to have the armament to do anything significant in return. I'm most likely armed with weapons that can't do pinpoint damage (lasers or SRMs) OR will overheat me in anything but a very short fight (PPCs) OR only have one significant AC wern they mount at least 2.

If SRMs worked or Lasers did pinpoint? Well, they'd think twice. I'd go down for sure BUT I could open up a torso location which would leave them fearing an alpha strike from a larger mech. There's just no danger because they are so agile there's very little hope that I'll be able to get behind them and stay there for any significant length of time so I pose no threat what-so-ever.

So I care very little that a mech flicking it's torso that fast would make it spin like a top. What I care about is that I SHOULD be able to get in behind a significant portion of the time. That's theoretically why I sacrifice weight and armament. To gain the mobility and agility to get behind a guy where his armour is a lot thinner. I actually sacrifice weight and armour for no other reason to play something different even though I know it;'s going to get me, and my team, slammed.

THAT is precisely why I pop tart in every single medium mech I own that can't fit an AC 20 on it. Because nothing else makes sense. If I get spotted? I'm going to die quickly to LRM 50's. If I try to have a stand up fight? I'm going to get cored before I can really do much.

A LOT of issues stem from high mech mobility and agility where it shouldn't be. Still, I deal with it rather than say much because the devs know, they just lack the motivation to do anything about it in a timely manner. Other stuff is just higher on the priority list. By the time they actually get around to it they won't be able to fix it as the community would be in an uproar.

It's here to stay so I deal with it because that's the only possible solution.

The game has a fair bit left in it but it's already in the early stages of dying. Too much is out of kilter and they lack the manpower to do anything about it. Those who remember Auto Assault will know what I'm on about. Generally the game was interesting enough to survive but the Dev team was just too small to fix issues in a timely manner and add content at a reasonable pace. This put the game in a position where ONE bad decision killed it.

MWO is already there. Discontent is high. Every decision, if it goes the wrong way, has the potential to be "the straw that broke the camel's back". Will everyone leave? No. But those who remain won't be enough to support the game's existence.

It's a shame but this is how it often goes with small dev teams.

[Bront]

GoManGo, on 08 December 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

This thread is wrong the mechs are not agile enough MWO mechs are 1/2 AS agile as MechWarrior4 mechs were and about 1/4 as agile as the mechs in MechWarrior3. Please if they slowed the MWO mechs down any more we might as well just change the game to turned based and get it over with. Scrap the game and close the servers

The issue isn't how "fast" they're moving, but how easy it is to turn them.

Remember, this isn't a game like prior games where a larger mech was a better mech. The idea is that mechs are all viable regardless of tonnage. Complain all we want, but PGI has done a remarkable job of getting that to be somewhat true (There are lights and mediums worth playing). One of the remaining issues is many mediums have trouble outmaneuvering assaults, which shouldn't be the case. We're not talking about a huge mobility nerf, simply a few degrees per second here or there would be just right.

[Darklord]

They need to look at the speed of how mech arms move in relation to the speed of the controls.
We shouldn't be able to whip the mouse around and have the arms follow it at the same speed; after all that a lot of weight that's moving.
If we slowed the speed down of arms on a mech according to weight classes, aiming would be more challenging.