362 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Fut, on 13 December 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

Agreed. Those attributes (Turning/Torso speed) should be reduced on Assaults and Heavies. It's kind of ridiculous that they can keep up fairly evenly with the mediums in that regard. It really reduces the effectiveness of the extra speed (movement speed) that the mediums have over the heavier chassis - and some of the heavies are just as fast as mediums to boot.

The system could definitely use some fine tuning.

Being a Assault pilot I disagree. its hard enough for me to try and track a fast Light. I have to basically wait till one hits a corner if I want a chance to kill it.

[Sandpit]

Adiuvo, on 12 December 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

You play against some absolutely terrible assault pilots.

Joseph Mallan, on 13 December 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

Being a Assault pilot I disagree. its hard enough for me to try and track a fast Light. I have to basically wait till one hits a corner if I want a chance to kill it.

well there's your problem according to "that" guy

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandpit, on 13 December 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

well there's your problem according to "that" guy

Yeah According to that Guy.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 13 December 2013 - 10:07 AM.

[Fut]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 December 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

Being a Assault pilot I disagree. its hard enough for me to try and track a fast Light. I have to basically wait till one hits a corner if I want a chance to kill it.

Isn't that sort of how it's supposed to be?
A light at cruising speed, dancing around and avoiding the attacks of the Assault. The Assault's only hope is to land a lucky shot (either through good timing, or pilot error on the Light's part), or to wait for back-up from some lighter/quicker Mechs on his side.

Part of being a Medium Pilot is supposed to be back up for the big boys. To get those pesky Light Mechs off my Assault buddies - but it's non-existent in MWO, because the Assaults can move quickly enough to fight off the Lights on their own.

You know how the old BT books had those little stories sprinkled through-out them?
There's one that I recall that's about a bunch of rookies in a simulator. They all take Assaults and head out on patrol, only to get jumped by a bunch of Lights - the Lights proceed to shred the rookies in their Assaults because the maneuverability difference is just too much.

That is how Battletech/Mechwarrior/MWO should be.

[Joseph Mallan]

Fut, on 13 December 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Isn't that sort of how it's supposed to be?
A light at cruising speed, dancing around and avoiding the attacks of the Assault. The Assault's only hope is to land a lucky shot (either through good timing, or pilot error on the Light's part), or to wait for back-up from some lighter/quicker Mechs on his side.

Part of being a Medium Pilot is supposed to be back up for the big boys. To get those pesky Light Mechs off my Assault buddies - but it's non-existent in MWO, because the Assaults can move quickly enough to fight off the Lights on their own.

You know how the old BT books had those little stories sprinkled through-out them?
There's one that I recall that's about a bunch of rookies in a simulator. They all take Assaults and head out on patrol, only to get jumped by a bunch of Lights - the Lights proceed to shred the rookies in their Assaults because the maneuverability difference is just too much.

That is how Battletech/Mechwarrior/MWO should be is.

Fixed that for you. Unless the Light pilot is less skilled than I am, I get eaten alive. So maybe the problem isn't the assault Mech easily crushing a light but a good Pilot having the skills to drop you like a windshield should.

[Endarius]

I think you are confusing torso twist speed and radius with agility. A medium 'mech can absolutely outmaneuver a heavy and they can run circles around an assault mech. Light 'mechs are the worst nightmare of most assault mechs unless they have JJ's and streaks. I think you're doing it wrong bro. Also, every 'mech has weaknesses. A centurion should not be trying to kill and Orion toe to toe because attrition is just too bitchy, but said Centurion should be able to absolutely destroy a Stalker or an Atlas if the pilot is competent. The current twist speeds allow a Heavy or Assault pilot to at least have a hope of hitting much smaller, much more agile targets IF they are smart in how they orient themselves. The playing field is pretty level these days. You just havn't figured out how to optimize your own Chassis in relation to gameplay. If you think any amount of nerfing and or buffing will allow you to straight out duel an assault 'mech in a medium 'mech you have another thing coming.

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 December 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Fixed that for you. Unless the Light pilot is less skilled than I am, I get eaten alive. So maybe the problem isn't the assault Mech easily crushing a light but a good Pilot having the skills to drop you like a windshield should.

no way!!! you mean pilot skill can affect the outcome?!?!?!? WTF PGI???? Individual piloting skill is OP, this needs to be nerfed, polled, and have 50 duplicate threads posted about it!

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandpit, on 13 December 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

no way!!! you mean pilot skill can affect the outcome?!?!?!? WTF PGI???? Individual piloting skill is OP, this needs to be nerfed, polled, and have 50 duplicate threads posted about it!

Only to conclude, "Working as Intended!"

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 December 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Only to conclude, "Working as Intended!"

and will be implemented soon

[DaZur]

Apparently reading and comprehension is a lost art in this forum...

"Yes" the forward premise includes a global reduction in implied ground speed in order to reduce closure rates and re-seat Assaults as Vanguard assets and not strikers. BUT (and and it's a big but)... this includes a buff to the Mediums and Lights axial rotation speeds as well as reduction in their turn radius, with the intent to make them MORE maneuverable (agile)...

Edited by DaZur, 13 December 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[Sandpit]

DaZur, on 13 December 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

Apparently reading and comprehension is a lost art in this forum...

"Yes" the forward premise includes a global reduction in implied ground speed in order to reduce closure rates and re-seat Assaults as Vanguard assets and not strikers. BUT (and and it's a big but)... this includes a buff to the Mediums and Lights axial rotation speeds as well as reduction in their turn radius, with the intent to make them MORE maneuverable (agile)...

that was said 10 pages ago. repeating it to "make others understand why they're wrong" changes nothing. Some agree with that assertion, others don't. It's really that simple. It's not a matter of reading comprehension, it's a matter of repeating the exact same argument wanting different results. 11 pages and you haven't changed opinions, nor have I, nor has anyone else. Some agree, some don't

So some of us choose at this point to have a little fun with the thread instead of repeating ourselves. again. and again. and again. If someone posts something new and exciting™ (roadbeer) then I'll respond constructively to that

[DaZur]

Sandpit, on 13 December 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

that was said 10 pages ago. repeating it to "make others understand why they're wrong" changes nothing. Some agree with that assertion, others don't. It's really that simple. It's not a matter of reading comprehension, it's a matter of repeating the exact same argument wanting different results. 11 pages and you haven't changed opinions, nor have I, nor has anyone else. Some agree, some don't

So some of us choose at this point to have a little fun with the thread instead of repeating ourselves. again. and again. and again. If someone posts something new and exciting™ (roadbeer) then I'll respond constructively to that

Calm down Frances... My response was to the OMGFMRPT!!!! NO WAY YOU CAN"T MAKE THEM SLOWER!!! post that was clearly a knee-jerk responded sans reading through 11 pages that I failed to properly quote for reference...

[Almond Brown]

Fut, on 13 December 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

Isn't that sort of how it's supposed to be?
A light at cruising speed, dancing around and avoiding the attacks of the Assault. The Assault's only hope is to land a lucky shot (either through good timing, or pilot error on the Light's part), or to wait for back-up from some lighter/quicker Mechs on his side.

Part of being a Medium Pilot is supposed to be back up for the big boys. To get those pesky Light Mechs off my Assault buddies - but it's non-existent in MWO, because the Assaults can move quickly enough to fight off the Lights on their own.

You know how the old BT books had those little stories sprinkled through-out them?
There's one that I recall that's about a bunch of rookies in a simulator. They all take Assaults and head out on patrol, only to get jumped by a bunch of Lights - the Lights proceed to shred the rookies in their Assaults because the maneuverability difference is just too much.

That is how Battletech/Mechwarrior/MWO should be.

I suspect that in BT/TT it was a rare case to have a 1 v 1 with an Assault Mech and a Light Mech, say a Jenner -F that can burn a Leg off said Assault with just 3 or 4 6x ML 30pt Alpha. The Assault is then simply toast after losing a leg, no matter how good the Pilot is.

[Joseph Mallan]

Almond Brown, on 13 December 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

I suspect that in BT/TT it was a rare case to have a 1 v 1 with an Assault Mech and a Light Mech, say a Jenner -F that can burn a Leg off said Assault with just 3 or 4 6x ML 30pt Alpha. The Assault is then simply toast after losing a leg, no matter how good the Pilot is.

In this scenario My Gauss or AC20 could remove that Jenner's Leg, Torso armor & crit the side torso structure... with one lucky shell! 6 lasers would have glazed the armor on multiple locations. Maybe reaching structure on an arm...

[Solis Obscuri]

I don't think the problem is that 'mechs are too agile across the board, it's that several of the heavy 'mechs that are just heavier, better armed and armored upgrades to the mediums are treated the same in terms of agility and movement penalties. It's silly that a Cataphract of Jagermech can move around as easily as a Hunchback or Centurion, or that a Stalker is treated the same as a Catapult.

On the bright side, some of the mediums have received handling buffs that make them much more competitive, and that is improving the situation. Gradually.

[Solis Obscuri]

Almond Brown, on 13 December 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

I suspect that in BT/TT it was a rare case to have a 1 v 1 with an Assault Mech and a Light Mech, say a Jenner -F that can burn a Leg off said Assault with just 3 or 4 6x ML 30pt Alpha. The Assault is then simply toast after losing a leg, no matter how good the Pilot is.

Yeah, location targeting wasn't really a thing back in TT 3025. That meant that "boating" lots of light weapons wasn't always a better option than carrying one heavy weapon. Physical attacks were also allowed, and often your best and most reliable means of doing damage. That made it very hard for a lone light to engage a lone assault, though if the terrain was favorable and you understood how to use initiative, it was possible.

[DaZur]

Solis Obscuri, on 13 December 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

I don't think the problem is that 'mechs are too agile across the board, it's that several of the heavy 'mechs that are just heavier, better armed and armored upgrades to the mediums are treated the same in terms of agility and movement penalties. It's silly that a Cataphract of Jagermech can move around as easily as a Hunchback or Centurion, or that a Stalker is treated the same as a Catapult.

Agreed. In application while a Heavy may have the same ground-speed of a Medium... It's greater mass should play out making it less maneuverable / agile... particularly in stop / start and turning radius at full speed.

[Sandpit]

DaZur, on 13 December 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

Calm down Frances... My response was to the OMGFMRPT!!!! NO WAY YOU CAN"T MAKE THEM SLOWER!!! post that was clearly a knee-jerk responded sans reading through 11 pages that I failed to properly quote for reference...

OMG WTF NERF POSTS!

How'd you know my middle name btw?

I'm just saying after about page 2-3 it's usually

"i'm right"
"nuh-uh"
"uh-huh"
"nope"
"yep"
"troll post"
"stop it!"
"you stop it"
"Niko! He's touching me!"
Niko, "Keep it civil guys"
"I'm right"
"Nuh-uh"
"You're a poopy head!"
"Nikooooooooooo"
*Thread Locked*

[DaZur]

Sandpit, on 13 December 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

... Stop touching me.

[Sandpit]

DaZur, on 13 December 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

[/size]

... Stop touching me. <--------------------------------------

I'm not touching you