675 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Roadkill, on 03 January 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

That's what JJ are supposed to do, at least to me. Mobility is their purpose.

It's this layered-on ability to turn your Mech into an AeroMech that's broken.

Something that I've been thinking is that JJ recharge should be MUCH slower. Like, say, 10 seconds to fully recharge from 0%. That would make for less Unreal Tournament bunny-hopping and would also make multiples necessary for the best maneuverability. Sure, you could still climb a mountain with 1 JJ, but since you'd have to recharge for 10 seconds after each 5-meter jump it would take a lot longer.

Coincidentally, it'd also slow down jump snipers. They'd still be able to do it, but at a much slower pace than current.

You know... we were only able to use our Jump Jets once per turn on TT... then again we could only ire our weapons once per turn also...

[Sandpit]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

You know... we were only able to use our Jump Jets once per turn on TT... then again we could only ire our weapons once per turn also...

JJs were also directional and could maneuver a mech.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sandpit, on 03 January 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

JJs were also directional and could maneuver a mech.

Yes they could. Shame about that here.

[Roadkill]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

You know... we were only able to use our Jump Jets once per turn on TT... then again we could only ire our weapons once per turn also...

Yeah, and our heat sinks only worked once per turn, too.

Oh wait...

[Roadkill]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

Yes they could. Shame about that here.

I dunno, I feel like the implementation we have does a pretty good job of representing how JJ essentially work in TT. In fact, I think they're far more effective in MWO than they are in TT, and I see that as a problem.

[Cimarb]

While I like some of the ideas about JJs, they are not the issue. As Roadkill said, remove front loaded weapons and jump sniping becomes trivial. Add all kinds of shake and arm/torso locks and you just maim normal jump jet movement, which many smaller mechs rely upon to survive.

I don't think autocannons should get the same 1 second duration as lasers. I think autocannons should have a 0.2-0.6 burst duration (quick brrrrrat), with pulse lasers at 0.6 (pum-pum-pum) and lasers at maybe 0.7-0.8 (pewwwwwwwwwww). To get exact numbers, we should have the public test server open consistently for a week or so to tweak the numbers and get a feel for them.

[Mcgral18]

Cimarb, on 03 January 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

While I like some of the ideas about JJs, they are not the issue. As Roadkill said, remove front loaded weapons and jump sniping becomes trivial. Add all kinds of shake and arm/torso locks and you just maim normal jump jet movement, which many smaller mechs rely upon to survive.

I don't think autocannons should get the same 1 second duration as lasers. I think autocannons should have a 0.2-0.6 burst duration (quick brrrrrat), with pulse lasers at 0.6 (pum-pum-pum) and lasers at maybe 0.7-0.8 (pewwwwwwwwwww). To get exact numbers, we should have the public test server open consistently for a week or so to tweak the numbers and get a feel for them.

But we know PGI will never do this...which is rather sad. I agree with all of it.

[Varent]

It would effect to many other things negatively and change the game into a bad dynamic.

[Myomes]

Roadkill, on 03 January 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

I dunno, I feel like the implementation we have does a pretty good job of representing how JJ essentially work in TT.  In fact, I think they're far more effective in MWO than they are in TT, and I see that as a problem.

20-32 meters max vs 120 meters. Forward in the direction your legs point, with no control, vs any type of movement.yea, MWO JJ are sure superior to TT (sarcasm).

[Cimarb]

Varent, on 03 January 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

It would effect to many other things negatively and change the game into a bad dynamic.

Says you (and Sandpit). How do you know when you haven't even saw it implemented?

[Sandpit]

Cimarb, on 03 January 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

Says you (and Sandpit). How do you know when you haven't even saw it implemented?

The same way you know

Seriously do you honestly think pgi doesn't look at things like this?
Do you not think that when they lay down big adjustments they haven't looked at several options?
Do you not think they even now look into this kind of stuff and maybe you're the one with a bad idea?

[Varent]

Cimarb, on 03 January 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

Says you (and Sandpit). How do you know when you haven't even saw it implemented?

I don't, but I can assume and make educated guesses. Just as anyone can with changes in general.

[Sandpit]

It's what I choose to believe

[Dock Steward]

I'm actually really curious to see how burst firing ballistics would play out. It seems like it would totally make survivability go up and increase the enjoyability of games. However, on the other hand, it would definitely make AC's extremely similar to Lasers in function. What's more, if the change did have an adverse effect on gameplay, or just didn't work out for some reason, we'd have to wait many months for PGI to change it back. I'm really torn on this one. Good points on both sides...unfortunately.

[Cimarb]

Sandpit, on 03 January 2014 - 06:49 PM, said:

The same way you know

Seriously do you honestly think pgi doesn't look at things like this?
Do you not think that when they lay down big adjustments they haven't looked at several options?
Do you not think they even now look into this kind of stuff and maybe you're the one with a bad idea?

Honestly, after seeing some of their decisions the last year or so, I don't have a clue what PGI looks at.
I'm sure they do, but that doesn't mean they chose the right option. Are you saying that ghost heat was a good option? 3PV was a good option? The options they chose regarding UI2.0 decisions over the last two years?
I'm what would be considered a "white knight", but defending front loaded damage by saying PGI listens to us and makes the right choices is quite a stretch.

[Sandpit]

Cimarb, on 03 January 2014 - 07:07 PM, said:

Honestly, after seeing some of their decisions the last year or so, I don't have a clue what PGI looks at.
I'm sure they do, but that doesn't mean they chose the right option. Are you saying that ghost heat was a good option? 3PV was a good option? The options they chose regarding UI2.0 decisions over the last two years?
I'm what would be considered a "white knight", but defending front loaded damage by saying PGI listens to us and makes the right choices is quite a stretch.

Ironically enough I'm about as far from being a white knight as can be and I think ballistics are in a good place right now

[Cimarb]

Dock Steward, on 03 January 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

I'm actually really curious to see how burst firing ballistics would play out. It seems like it would totally make survivability go up and increase the enjoyability of games. However, on the other hand, it would definitely make AC's extremely similar to Lasers in function. What's more, if the change did have an adverse effect on gameplay, or just didn't work out for some reason, we'd have to wait many months for PGI to change it back. I'm really torn on this one. Good points on both sides...unfortunately.

That is really the crux of this issue and why it really doesn't matter: PGI isn't going to start testing stuff publicly like this no matter how long we debate it.

Varent, Sandpit and Co., I really respect you guys and your opinions. I don't agree with you, but I have enjoyed arguing about this regardless. I just wish we could try some things out, even if it was convergence, crazy jump jet lockups, or making lasers into light sabers and LRMs into 20-point howitzer rounds, lol.

[Thorqemada]

A burst of 0.2 to 0,6 is to short, it would need 0,2s for AC2 to 2s for AC20s.

If the Change does not work out and ACs become weaker (which they should become bcs they are KING) the Players will do what they allways do and switch to other Mechs and Weapons.
For the Weapon/Mechswitch alone it would be a positive change (if only temporal)!

Probably the LBX becomes suddenly popular bcs it does no burstfire but a clustershot.

[Sandpit]

Cimarb, on 03 January 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

That is really the crux of this issue and why it really doesn't matter: PGI isn't going to start testing stuff publicly like this no matter how long we debate it.

Varent, Sandpit and Co., I really respect you guys and your opinions. I don't agree with you, but I have enjoyed arguing about this regardless. I just wish we could try some things out, even if it was convergence, crazy jump jet lockups, or making lasers into light sabers and LRMs into 20-point howitzer rounds, lol.

Might be my favorite post of the day lol

[Cimarb]

Sandpit, on 03 January 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

Ironically enough I'm about as far from being a white knight as can be and I think ballistics are in a good place right now

Lol, that's why I said it that way.