There is nothing different. It is the same ridiculous mech scam.
131
7768 replies to this topic
#7082
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- 1,393 posts
Member
Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:33 PM
The real sad thing is with a little effort they could monetize MWO without so clumsily offending their playerbase. I am not the first one to have come up with such an idea.
Happy players play. Happy players pay. Happy players bring more players. Who might pay as well.
Monetizing Clan Mechs
You want to sell us Clan Mechs. Pre-order them even. Alright. I am not a fan of pre-ordering stuff anyways, but...
Make us earn them instead of asking us to just throw a wad of money at you. We know your telemetry software is sophisticated and currently we are having an event where people hunt Devs. Create a major event like "First Contact on Stars End". On that week the Devs hop into what Clan Mechs are are ready and play. Your servers register who kills you. These accounts get the opportunity to pre-order exactly the Clan Mech they killed. They can "salvage" them for a reasonable price and get them a month or two before they are released for C-Bills.
You could even sell tickets for pre-release testing Clan Mechs during this one week long event by dedicated players to get enough coverage in terms of numbers and time zones. For a small fee with the added bonus of being able to pre-order any Clan Mech they want.
And I think many would also pay for the opportunity to test-pilot. They receive a a (supposedly) good time for their test-pilot fee. You should even give them the fee as a discount on their pre-order. If you want to put it that way this is the a la carte approach with added peak preview.
It is practically the same thing. People pre-order. But they are having fun.
The players did something for it. It is an achievement, most likely more tolerated by other players who threaten to TK any gold Mech they see. And people get to play. Probably more people than during non event times. Even you might have a good time at work instead having to handle a community up in arms.
After the release do it again, but with C-Bills. Kill a Clan Mech and you can salvage it.
And if you really think a 500$ deal is absolutely neccessary then offer being Test-Pilot as a yearly subscription instead of encouraging griefing.
Monetizing Vanity Items and CW
It is too late for a full lenght post. Might do that another time. The basic principles apply, though.
Please note that nothing of this would alleviate the slowness of real content coming anytime soon or the suspicion that PGI didn´t put any effort in even getting started with CW and we might have been told half-truths. (again)
Happy players play. Happy players pay. Happy players bring more players. Who might pay as well.
Monetizing Clan Mechs
You want to sell us Clan Mechs. Pre-order them even. Alright. I am not a fan of pre-ordering stuff anyways, but...
Make us earn them instead of asking us to just throw a wad of money at you. We know your telemetry software is sophisticated and currently we are having an event where people hunt Devs. Create a major event like "First Contact on Stars End". On that week the Devs hop into what Clan Mechs are are ready and play. Your servers register who kills you. These accounts get the opportunity to pre-order exactly the Clan Mech they killed. They can "salvage" them for a reasonable price and get them a month or two before they are released for C-Bills.
You could even sell tickets for pre-release testing Clan Mechs during this one week long event by dedicated players to get enough coverage in terms of numbers and time zones. For a small fee with the added bonus of being able to pre-order any Clan Mech they want.
And I think many would also pay for the opportunity to test-pilot. They receive a a (supposedly) good time for their test-pilot fee. You should even give them the fee as a discount on their pre-order. If you want to put it that way this is the a la carte approach with added peak preview.
It is practically the same thing. People pre-order. But they are having fun.
The players did something for it. It is an achievement, most likely more tolerated by other players who threaten to TK any gold Mech they see. And people get to play. Probably more people than during non event times. Even you might have a good time at work instead having to handle a community up in arms.
After the release do it again, but with C-Bills. Kill a Clan Mech and you can salvage it.
And if you really think a 500$ deal is absolutely neccessary then offer being Test-Pilot as a yearly subscription instead of encouraging griefing.
Monetizing Vanity Items and CW
It is too late for a full lenght post. Might do that another time. The basic principles apply, though.
Please note that nothing of this would alleviate the slowness of real content coming anytime soon or the suspicion that PGI didn´t put any effort in even getting started with CW and we might have been told half-truths. (again)
Edited by Molossian Dog, 23 December 2013 - 07:56 PM.
#7083
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- 89 posts
Member
Posted 23 December 2013 - 07:53 PM
Molossian, that would completely circumvent their current business model of doing as little work as possible for the most possible monetary gain. If they waned to WORK for the money we have been giving them, we would have had CW 6 months ago.
The funny part is, when you take the time to create a good MMO using an established IP, players will literally THROW money at you on a regular basis with microtransactions without even realizing how much they are spending. It is literally a goldmine for any company willing to create a game that people WANT to play. Not only that, but people will not even realize how much they are spending on those microtransactions because they will only spend maybe $5 or $10 at a time.
For example, STO is doing very well with the star trek licence, and they routinely develop new content that expands the game alongside the actual monetized items like the ships, costumes, etc., that they periodically release. But the content comes first and keeps players interested, or there would be no reason to buy the new items in the first place. Even SWTOR, which has probably the worst F2P model of any major MMO, is routinely coming out with new content that is not directly monetized as a way of attracting and retaining new players. These two MMOs also routinely give away free stuff (or offer special items you can grind for very easily) as a way of showing goodwill towards their playerbase.
The problem is, PGI wants to skip the part about actually making a game worth playing. They want you to purchase all of your "microtransactions" as a large "macrotransaction" literally a year in advance, BEFORE seeing any of the promised content that makes the game worth playing in the first place. It is completely backwards and like any other scam/ponzi scheme/pyramid scam it will only last as long as it takes to run out of people who can be suckered out of their money.
The really sad part is that ANY other gaming company could have made this work simply by following the established model of content = players and THEN players = money. PGI has tried to do it backwards, starting with players = money and skipping the content part.
The funny part is, when you take the time to create a good MMO using an established IP, players will literally THROW money at you on a regular basis with microtransactions without even realizing how much they are spending. It is literally a goldmine for any company willing to create a game that people WANT to play. Not only that, but people will not even realize how much they are spending on those microtransactions because they will only spend maybe $5 or $10 at a time.
For example, STO is doing very well with the star trek licence, and they routinely develop new content that expands the game alongside the actual monetized items like the ships, costumes, etc., that they periodically release. But the content comes first and keeps players interested, or there would be no reason to buy the new items in the first place. Even SWTOR, which has probably the worst F2P model of any major MMO, is routinely coming out with new content that is not directly monetized as a way of attracting and retaining new players. These two MMOs also routinely give away free stuff (or offer special items you can grind for very easily) as a way of showing goodwill towards their playerbase.
The problem is, PGI wants to skip the part about actually making a game worth playing. They want you to purchase all of your "microtransactions" as a large "macrotransaction" literally a year in advance, BEFORE seeing any of the promised content that makes the game worth playing in the first place. It is completely backwards and like any other scam/ponzi scheme/pyramid scam it will only last as long as it takes to run out of people who can be suckered out of their money.
The really sad part is that ANY other gaming company could have made this work simply by following the established model of content = players and THEN players = money. PGI has tried to do it backwards, starting with players = money and skipping the content part.
Edited by Devari, 23 December 2013 - 07:57 PM.
#7084
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- The Spear
- 683 posts
Member
Posted 24 December 2013 - 01:59 PM
Devari, on 23 December 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:
Ritter, I"ll break it down for you.
1. It takes them a trivial amount of time to create concept art or reskin a new mech. They then charge $30 for this new mech (or simply the PROMISE of a new mech 6 months from now).
2. It takes a substantial amount of time actually developing a game with features that people will actually want to play and are willing to pay for, such as the persistent, real-time, territory-based MMO they told us they were making two years ago. Now, in almost any other profession, you need to make a useful product FIRST before you start selling it to people to make money. However, PGI has decided to SKIP this part, because they have figured out they can get literally HUNDREDS of dollars out of each player by strategy #1 without even TRYING to make strategy #2 work.
This is why they have 20 people on their team working on task #1 and some small undefined fraction of their 18 remaining people "trying" to accomplish #2. As if that weren't bad enough, it turns out it's even WORSE than that. They literally told us last week that they did not even have the licence beyond mid-2015 until recently and because of this they felt they could not "justify" putting resources into objective #2. Nevermind that they already charged founders up to $120 and phoenix purchasers up to $110 to actually make a game that is worth playing. Also nevermind that they told us this game would be in working form before the end of 2013. Apparently those claims are unimportant now that they have taken your money and spent it on other things. They figure that simply producing a mech animation and skin, and letting you fight other mechs on a map, is enough to justify the money they took from you.
Now they want more of your money. Preferably $240 per person for the full clan package, or maybe even $500 for a gold colored mech if you're feeling particularly narcissistic today. Apparently the small fraction of people who are supposed to accomplish task #2, if they are even working on this at all, are supposed to have a working game for us a full year from now.
It is a scam. They are selling you digital toy robots to smash around in a 12 v 12 sandbox and are betting that there are still enough fans stupid enough to pay them HUNDREDS of dollars for this privilege.
If mechwarrior did not have a history spanning 30 years with four major successful computer games they quite simply could not even try this. It is simply through brand recognition that this even becomes possible, because there are enough adults who were fans of battletech for decades who can be scammed out of hundreds of dollars with empty promises and a barely-functional mech sandbox.
Unfortunately, when a company can make large amounts of money without doing the work they are being paid to do, this is what we get.
1. It takes them a trivial amount of time to create concept art or reskin a new mech. They then charge $30 for this new mech (or simply the PROMISE of a new mech 6 months from now).
2. It takes a substantial amount of time actually developing a game with features that people will actually want to play and are willing to pay for, such as the persistent, real-time, territory-based MMO they told us they were making two years ago. Now, in almost any other profession, you need to make a useful product FIRST before you start selling it to people to make money. However, PGI has decided to SKIP this part, because they have figured out they can get literally HUNDREDS of dollars out of each player by strategy #1 without even TRYING to make strategy #2 work.
This is why they have 20 people on their team working on task #1 and some small undefined fraction of their 18 remaining people "trying" to accomplish #2. As if that weren't bad enough, it turns out it's even WORSE than that. They literally told us last week that they did not even have the licence beyond mid-2015 until recently and because of this they felt they could not "justify" putting resources into objective #2. Nevermind that they already charged founders up to $120 and phoenix purchasers up to $110 to actually make a game that is worth playing. Also nevermind that they told us this game would be in working form before the end of 2013. Apparently those claims are unimportant now that they have taken your money and spent it on other things. They figure that simply producing a mech animation and skin, and letting you fight other mechs on a map, is enough to justify the money they took from you.
Now they want more of your money. Preferably $240 per person for the full clan package, or maybe even $500 for a gold colored mech if you're feeling particularly narcissistic today. Apparently the small fraction of people who are supposed to accomplish task #2, if they are even working on this at all, are supposed to have a working game for us a full year from now.
It is a scam. They are selling you digital toy robots to smash around in a 12 v 12 sandbox and are betting that there are still enough fans stupid enough to pay them HUNDREDS of dollars for this privilege.
If mechwarrior did not have a history spanning 30 years with four major successful computer games they quite simply could not even try this. It is simply through brand recognition that this even becomes possible, because there are enough adults who were fans of battletech for decades who can be scammed out of hundreds of dollars with empty promises and a barely-functional mech sandbox.
Unfortunately, when a company can make large amounts of money without doing the work they are being paid to do, this is what we get.
This is the best sum up of where MWO is currently I've seen to-date.
#7085
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- Legendary Founder
- 34 posts
Member
Posted 24 December 2013 - 03:19 PM
Devari, on 23 December 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:
Ritter, I"ll break it down for you.
1. It takes them a trivial amount of time to create concept art or reskin a new mech. They then charge $30 for this new mech (or simply the PROMISE of a new mech 6 months from now).
2. It takes a substantial amount of time actually developing a game with features that people will actually want to play and are willing to pay for, such as the persistent, real-time, territory-based MMO they told us they were making two years ago. Now, in almost any other profession, you need to make a useful product FIRST before you start selling it to people to make money. However, PGI has decided to SKIP this part, because they have figured out they can get literally HUNDREDS of dollars out of each player by strategy #1 without even TRYING to make strategy #2 work.
This is why they have 20 people on their team working on task #1 and some small undefined fraction of their 18 remaining people "trying" to accomplish #2. As if that weren't bad enough, it turns out it's even WORSE than that. They literally told us last week that they did not even have the licence beyond mid-2015 until recently and because of this they felt they could not "justify" putting resources into objective #2. Nevermind that they already charged founders up to $120 and phoenix purchasers up to $110 to actually make a game that is worth playing. Also nevermind that they told us this game would be in working form before the end of 2013. Apparently those claims are unimportant now that they have taken your money and spent it on other things. They figure that simply producing a mech animation and skin, and letting you fight other mechs on a map, is enough to justify the money they took from you.
Now they want more of your money. Preferably $240 per person for the full clan package, or maybe even $500 for a gold colored mech if you're feeling particularly narcissistic today. Apparently the small fraction of people who are supposed to accomplish task #2, if they are even working on this at all, are supposed to have a working game for us a full year from now.
It is a scam. They are selling you digital toy robots to smash around in a 12 v 12 sandbox and are betting that there are still enough fans stupid enough to pay them HUNDREDS of dollars for this privilege.
If mechwarrior did not have a history spanning 30 years with four major successful computer games they quite simply could not even try this. It is simply through brand recognition that this even becomes possible, because there are enough adults who were fans of battletech for decades who can be scammed out of hundreds of dollars with empty promises and a barely-functional mech sandbox.
Unfortunately, when a company can make large amounts of money without doing the work they are being paid to do, this is what we get.
1. It takes them a trivial amount of time to create concept art or reskin a new mech. They then charge $30 for this new mech (or simply the PROMISE of a new mech 6 months from now).
2. It takes a substantial amount of time actually developing a game with features that people will actually want to play and are willing to pay for, such as the persistent, real-time, territory-based MMO they told us they were making two years ago. Now, in almost any other profession, you need to make a useful product FIRST before you start selling it to people to make money. However, PGI has decided to SKIP this part, because they have figured out they can get literally HUNDREDS of dollars out of each player by strategy #1 without even TRYING to make strategy #2 work.
This is why they have 20 people on their team working on task #1 and some small undefined fraction of their 18 remaining people "trying" to accomplish #2. As if that weren't bad enough, it turns out it's even WORSE than that. They literally told us last week that they did not even have the licence beyond mid-2015 until recently and because of this they felt they could not "justify" putting resources into objective #2. Nevermind that they already charged founders up to $120 and phoenix purchasers up to $110 to actually make a game that is worth playing. Also nevermind that they told us this game would be in working form before the end of 2013. Apparently those claims are unimportant now that they have taken your money and spent it on other things. They figure that simply producing a mech animation and skin, and letting you fight other mechs on a map, is enough to justify the money they took from you.
Now they want more of your money. Preferably $240 per person for the full clan package, or maybe even $500 for a gold colored mech if you're feeling particularly narcissistic today. Apparently the small fraction of people who are supposed to accomplish task #2, if they are even working on this at all, are supposed to have a working game for us a full year from now.
It is a scam. They are selling you digital toy robots to smash around in a 12 v 12 sandbox and are betting that there are still enough fans stupid enough to pay them HUNDREDS of dollars for this privilege.
If mechwarrior did not have a history spanning 30 years with four major successful computer games they quite simply could not even try this. It is simply through brand recognition that this even becomes possible, because there are enough adults who were fans of battletech for decades who can be scammed out of hundreds of dollars with empty promises and a barely-functional mech sandbox.
Unfortunately, when a company can make large amounts of money without doing the work they are being paid to do, this is what we get.
well said we were supposed to have CW this year and now i see that they wernt working on it since they did not have a solid grip on the license
until things change my money is staying in my pocket and i bought legendary and overlord
#7086
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- The Jaws
- 129 posts
Member
- LocationGermany
Posted 24 December 2013 - 05:25 PM
CharlieBoy, on 23 December 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:
So if I read the FAQ correctly, if I purchase a certain tier I can upgrade to another tier. Kind of like layaway? If so then maybe I won't need to a la carte?
It's to scam people, who want a Timber Wolf/MadCat and don't want to buy the previous tiers.
#7088
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- Philanthropist
- 1,846 posts
Member
Posted 24 December 2013 - 08:03 PM
i gotta tell you , having not lost my mind with the f2p,, oh , lets pay MORE than we ever would for a game before model, when this game was announced, i looked at the founders packages, I looked at pgi/igp track record and I said.
Lets see.
Ive spent 15 bucks in mc for mechbays.. I consider that amount a fair trade. Anything else and I woulda lost my marbles with whats transpired.
Its not that i dont want the game to flourish.. its that I never saw any reason to invest any more money in the game. The devs never gave me an iota of confidence in them, nor did they ever listen in any meaningful way to their players.
Sc on the other hand, got 75 bucks of mine and if things pan out anywhere near where they should, theyll get more.
considering MW games comprise 90% of my pc gaming ever.. thats probably 15 plus years at this point, its scary how Im over mwo. like a bad habit.
sad but true.
heres hoping they get it together, at some point.
Lets see.
Ive spent 15 bucks in mc for mechbays.. I consider that amount a fair trade. Anything else and I woulda lost my marbles with whats transpired.
Its not that i dont want the game to flourish.. its that I never saw any reason to invest any more money in the game. The devs never gave me an iota of confidence in them, nor did they ever listen in any meaningful way to their players.
Sc on the other hand, got 75 bucks of mine and if things pan out anywhere near where they should, theyll get more.
considering MW games comprise 90% of my pc gaming ever.. thats probably 15 plus years at this point, its scary how Im over mwo. like a bad habit.
sad but true.
heres hoping they get it together, at some point.
#7089
Posted 25 December 2013 - 12:53 AM
Devari, on 23 December 2013 - 05:44 PM, said:
Ritter, I"ll break it down for you.
1. It takes them a trivial amount of time to create concept art or reskin a new mech. They then charge $30 for this new mech (or simply the PROMISE of a new mech 6 months from now).
2. It takes a substantial amount of time actually developing a game with features that people will actually want to play and are willing to pay for, such as the persistent, real-time, territory-based MMO they told us they were making two years ago. Now, in almost any other profession, you need to make a useful product FIRST before you start selling it to people to make money. However, PGI has decided to SKIP this part, because they have figured out they can get literally HUNDREDS of dollars out of each player by strategy #1 without even TRYING to make strategy #2 work.
This is why they have 20 people on their team working on task #1 and some small undefined fraction of their 18 remaining people "trying" to accomplish #2. As if that weren't bad enough, it turns out it's even WORSE than that. They literally told us last week that they did not even have the licence beyond mid-2015 until recently and because of this they felt they could not "justify" putting resources into objective #2. Nevermind that they already charged founders up to $120 and phoenix purchasers up to $110 to actually make a game that is worth playing. Also nevermind that they told us this game would be in working form before the end of 2013. Apparently those claims are unimportant now that they have taken your money and spent it on other things. They figure that simply producing a mech animation and skin, and letting you fight other mechs on a map, is enough to justify the money they took from you.
Now they want more of your money. Preferably $240 per person for the full clan package, or maybe even $500 for a gold colored mech if you're feeling particularly narcissistic today. Apparently the small fraction of people who are supposed to accomplish task #2, if they are even working on this at all, are supposed to have a working game for us a full year from now.
It is a scam. They are selling you digital toy robots to smash around in a 12 v 12 sandbox and are betting that there are still enough fans stupid enough to pay them HUNDREDS of dollars for this privilege.
If mechwarrior did not have a history spanning 30 years with four major successful computer games they quite simply could not even try this. It is simply through brand recognition that this even becomes possible, because there are enough adults who were fans of battletech for decades who can be scammed out of hundreds of dollars with empty promises and a barely-functional mech sandbox.
Unfortunately, when a company can make large amounts of money without doing the work they are being paid to do, this is what we get.
1. It takes them a trivial amount of time to create concept art or reskin a new mech. They then charge $30 for this new mech (or simply the PROMISE of a new mech 6 months from now).
2. It takes a substantial amount of time actually developing a game with features that people will actually want to play and are willing to pay for, such as the persistent, real-time, territory-based MMO they told us they were making two years ago. Now, in almost any other profession, you need to make a useful product FIRST before you start selling it to people to make money. However, PGI has decided to SKIP this part, because they have figured out they can get literally HUNDREDS of dollars out of each player by strategy #1 without even TRYING to make strategy #2 work.
This is why they have 20 people on their team working on task #1 and some small undefined fraction of their 18 remaining people "trying" to accomplish #2. As if that weren't bad enough, it turns out it's even WORSE than that. They literally told us last week that they did not even have the licence beyond mid-2015 until recently and because of this they felt they could not "justify" putting resources into objective #2. Nevermind that they already charged founders up to $120 and phoenix purchasers up to $110 to actually make a game that is worth playing. Also nevermind that they told us this game would be in working form before the end of 2013. Apparently those claims are unimportant now that they have taken your money and spent it on other things. They figure that simply producing a mech animation and skin, and letting you fight other mechs on a map, is enough to justify the money they took from you.
Now they want more of your money. Preferably $240 per person for the full clan package, or maybe even $500 for a gold colored mech if you're feeling particularly narcissistic today. Apparently the small fraction of people who are supposed to accomplish task #2, if they are even working on this at all, are supposed to have a working game for us a full year from now.
It is a scam. They are selling you digital toy robots to smash around in a 12 v 12 sandbox and are betting that there are still enough fans stupid enough to pay them HUNDREDS of dollars for this privilege.
If mechwarrior did not have a history spanning 30 years with four major successful computer games they quite simply could not even try this. It is simply through brand recognition that this even becomes possible, because there are enough adults who were fans of battletech for decades who can be scammed out of hundreds of dollars with empty promises and a barely-functional mech sandbox.
Unfortunately, when a company can make large amounts of money without doing the work they are being paid to do, this is what we get.
Wow, this really hit the spot for me. I have 170 invested so far. I almost bought 100$ of MC when the sale happened, I am glad I waited. I still play this game far more than anything else, but at some point I need something more than an empty promise or some milestone chart that likely will not be met. I know doing this is hard, but wow ... pushing out even more pay to play mechs so soon after Phoenix left me very jaded. I could have lived with it if you had met some mile stones such as private lobby, CW Phase 1, UI 2.0. Instead ... I get nerfed Clan mechs that will have balance issues. Joy.
#7090
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- The Determined
- 1,190 posts
Member
Posted 25 December 2013 - 01:11 AM
CrockdaddyAoD, on 25 December 2013 - 12:53 AM, said:
... even more pay to play mechs so soon after Phoenix left me very jaded. I could have lived with it if you had met some mile stones such as private lobby, CW Phase 1, UI 2.0. ...
I think this pretty much sums up the source of the rage ...
PGI, start living up to your hype, and I'll think about buying a Clan Collection. I enjoy the game you've made so far, but I won't pay more until you start delivering us the game that we hope it can be, the game envisioned in the original Dev Blogs more than a year and a half ago.
#7091
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- 3 posts
Rookie
- LocationSydney, Australia
Posted 25 December 2013 - 01:42 AM
Hi, so a little about me.
I'm a legendary founder, I bought the highest pheonix pack, I've invested a reasonable amount of money into MC for converting MechXP into GXP, and for mech bay slots, probably nearly $500 in total.
But I am extremely hesitant to invest anymore money in this game, particularly so close to Pheonix, because I don't see it adding any benefit to my gaming experience at all.
There is currently zero goal/point to the game, except to collect mechs and C-Bills.. But what is the point of having 40 mechs and millions of C-Bills?
There is no VoIP.
There is no chat channels.
There is no clan/community based gameplay.
There is no ladder system, or anything striving people to compete against each other.
There is no drop limit.
The match making system is rubbish.. Yesterday I was dropped into a game where the enemy had 11 Atlas D-DC, and all we had was 3 Assaults, the rest were mediums/heavies, needless to say we were stomped.
Inability to re-arrange or sort my mechs, of my 40 I only pilot around 6, and I have to scroll back/forth to find them.
Now they are offering me more mechs, but what am I supposed to do with 70 mechs with all the above things still missing?
This game needs some kind of community warfare or ladder type system really bad, to make the time we are investing worth something.
I'm a legendary founder, I bought the highest pheonix pack, I've invested a reasonable amount of money into MC for converting MechXP into GXP, and for mech bay slots, probably nearly $500 in total.
But I am extremely hesitant to invest anymore money in this game, particularly so close to Pheonix, because I don't see it adding any benefit to my gaming experience at all.
There is currently zero goal/point to the game, except to collect mechs and C-Bills.. But what is the point of having 40 mechs and millions of C-Bills?
There is no VoIP.
There is no chat channels.
There is no clan/community based gameplay.
There is no ladder system, or anything striving people to compete against each other.
There is no drop limit.
The match making system is rubbish.. Yesterday I was dropped into a game where the enemy had 11 Atlas D-DC, and all we had was 3 Assaults, the rest were mediums/heavies, needless to say we were stomped.
Inability to re-arrange or sort my mechs, of my 40 I only pilot around 6, and I have to scroll back/forth to find them.
Now they are offering me more mechs, but what am I supposed to do with 70 mechs with all the above things still missing?
This game needs some kind of community warfare or ladder type system really bad, to make the time we are investing worth something.
Edited by Calamity82, 25 December 2013 - 02:08 AM.
#7092
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- Elite Founder
- 364 posts
Member
- LocationAustria
Posted 25 December 2013 - 02:38 AM
Devari, on 23 December 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:
Molossian, that would completely circumvent their current business model of doing as little work as possible for the most possible monetary gain. If they waned to WORK for the money we have been giving them, we would have had CW 6 months ago.
The funny part is, when you take the time to create a good MMO using an established IP, players will literally THROW money at you on a regular basis with microtransactions without even realizing how much they are spending. It is literally a goldmine for any company willing to create a game that people WANT to play. Not only that, but people will not even realize how much they are spending on those microtransactions because they will only spend maybe $5 or $10 at a time.
For example, STO is doing very well with the star trek licence, and they routinely develop new content that expands the game alongside the actual monetized items like the ships, costumes, etc., that they periodically release. But the content comes first and keeps players interested, or there would be no reason to buy the new items in the first place. Even SWTOR, which has probably the worst F2P model of any major MMO, is routinely coming out with new content that is not directly monetized as a way of attracting and retaining new players. These two MMOs also routinely give away free stuff (or offer special items you can grind for very easily) as a way of showing goodwill towards their playerbase.
The problem is, PGI wants to skip the part about actually making a game worth playing. They want you to purchase all of your "microtransactions" as a large "macrotransaction" literally a year in advance, BEFORE seeing any of the promised content that makes the game worth playing in the first place. It is completely backwards and like any other scam/ponzi scheme/pyramid scam it will only last as long as it takes to run out of people who can be suckered out of their money.
The really sad part is that ANY other gaming company could have made this work simply by following the established model of content = players and THEN players = money. PGI has tried to do it backwards, starting with players = money and skipping the content part.
The funny part is, when you take the time to create a good MMO using an established IP, players will literally THROW money at you on a regular basis with microtransactions without even realizing how much they are spending. It is literally a goldmine for any company willing to create a game that people WANT to play. Not only that, but people will not even realize how much they are spending on those microtransactions because they will only spend maybe $5 or $10 at a time.
For example, STO is doing very well with the star trek licence, and they routinely develop new content that expands the game alongside the actual monetized items like the ships, costumes, etc., that they periodically release. But the content comes first and keeps players interested, or there would be no reason to buy the new items in the first place. Even SWTOR, which has probably the worst F2P model of any major MMO, is routinely coming out with new content that is not directly monetized as a way of attracting and retaining new players. These two MMOs also routinely give away free stuff (or offer special items you can grind for very easily) as a way of showing goodwill towards their playerbase.
The problem is, PGI wants to skip the part about actually making a game worth playing. They want you to purchase all of your "microtransactions" as a large "macrotransaction" literally a year in advance, BEFORE seeing any of the promised content that makes the game worth playing in the first place. It is completely backwards and like any other scam/ponzi scheme/pyramid scam it will only last as long as it takes to run out of people who can be suckered out of their money.
The really sad part is that ANY other gaming company could have made this work simply by following the established model of content = players and THEN players = money. PGI has tried to do it backwards, starting with players = money and skipping the content part.
I lose my trust in your post after you said sto and swtor doing good.
Srly.. Sto? "THE" p2w f2p ... they just milking players with p2w content and luck crapboxes with random chance to get just a single use ship that everyone want for 5$ each box (was dumb enough to spend over 100$ on that {Scrap}, hear from players how spend 700$ for a Jem Hadar ship because of bad luck)
Or thier c-store ships that are better then the standard variants for all chars on account... and they just made better Fleetships from the old standard ships too sell them twice. Fleetships are also better then the c-store version but for single use (just for 1 char) so all your old C-Store Ships was {Scrap} vs the "new" Fleetships.
Absolutly not playable on pvp without paying for the best possible ship.
And all that just to sell a ship twice or more if you want a single Fleetship for more chars.
Sure we get romulans with campain after some years but without own faction (you need to join fed or kling after the short champain) and now they running out of Star Trek content ...
i mean srly we got now f.ing T-Rex enemys with lasers on the head ..... wtf.. never see this {Scrap} in a single episode..
The Giveawayships are maybe nice to look at but like the other standard ships are weak vs C-store or Fleetships.
And swtor ... they also change thier p2p to f2p like sto because it doesnt run very well.
Sry for my raging but that was realy 2 bad examples (also because they get also many flame in the forum for {Scrap} balancing and too less content)
ps.: PGI have huge problems with holding Deadlines but not only because they just want money, more because they have big problems with the Engine, Netcode some balancing problems from the TT Rules and so on.
They have underrated the problems that will come and set thier deadlines way too optimistic.
Not to forget that this game is the first "mmo" (like) game they ever made with their small team where they need a content and updateflow. Mechs are the easiest content to produce so yea mostly we see more Mechs then Content (STO made also more ships then Content)
I dont think "every" other Company could do a better job because if Mwo would be build from .... letz say... cryptic (sto) you would see the rise of P2W and luckboxes. But hey there would maybe Singleplayer & Coop Missions where Balance is not needed and MP would nearly die (like in sto). Or Clans Mc only ... i wouldnt trust Cryptic.
Edited by Degalus, 25 December 2013 - 04:45 AM.
#7093
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- Bridesmaid
- 194 posts
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Posted 25 December 2013 - 05:14 AM
Degalus, on 25 December 2013 - 02:38 AM, said:
Srly.. Sto? "THE" p2w f2p
They sell convenience. They let you spend in-game currency to get pay currency, so you can get any of their c-store ships for free if you like (the expensive ships will just take you a few hours a day for a year, barring exploits).
I find STO's PvE experience vastly preferable to the one in MWO.
PvE is really why I played that game.
#7094
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- Elite Founder
- 364 posts
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- LocationAustria
Posted 25 December 2013 - 05:31 AM
Marcus Tanner, on 25 December 2013 - 05:14 AM, said:
I got all three of my lock-box ships without paying a penny. It just takes a long time.
They sell convenience. They let you spend in-game currency to get pay currency, so you can get any of their c-store ships for free if you like (the expensive ships will just take you a few hours a day for a year, barring exploits).
I find STO's PvE experience vastly preferable to the one in MWO. PvE is really why I played that game.
They sell convenience. They let you spend in-game currency to get pay currency, so you can get any of their c-store ships for free if you like (the expensive ships will just take you a few hours a day for a year, barring exploits).
I find STO's PvE experience vastly preferable to the one in MWO.
PvE is really why I played that game.Lucky boy.
I have not so many time (patience) to grind some month Dilithium Ore where you can just refine 8k per day and need more Chars to get enough for 3 Ultra Rare ships.
I tried to farm them but ever and ever again the same minigames was too much for me... it was just boring.
I also tried to play PvP because that was the only thing that was not so boring repeating like farming Ore.
But 1. PvP in STO is realy unpopular
2. Sad Pandas killing every fun out of it with macrousing, high end equipment, luckbox- and Fleetships. Or letz say they have no matchmaker because for the few that play pvp its enough to drop with everyone how try to play pvp. So... Roflstomping
Here in MWO i need also to farm C-Bills but just to get a mech thats not better then any other mech or for equipment that also everyone can get. No P2W and nice balancing so far also if some peoples love TT a little too much and think a FPS game is magical balanced if we would use TT Rules.
But maybe that is the Problem with MWO... p2w is a good source of income. Maybe they need selling the packages because you can nearly get everything for free (even the package mechs if you can wait)... how knows...
I think they need to take 3 of thier 20 mech designers and give them the jop to make cosmetic parts for all mechs that we can buy. (Package Mech Visuals are not buyable) Would be a better income then just camos colors and cockpititems.
If you are a PvE Fan and its the only thing why you play a game ....then you are realy in the wrong place here in MWO.
Edited by Degalus, 25 December 2013 - 11:09 AM.
#7095
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- Legendary Founder
- 562 posts
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- LocationFiddler's Green
Posted 25 December 2013 - 11:52 AM
My wallet is sealed for many reasons. This is the only game that actually angers me outside playing it. I heard a few days ago how they plan on implementing the drop limit system. It's like they strive to make this game worse not better. As far as content... where has all our money gone? You would think they would have enough cash to give us what they have promised us. Are they taking the cash we gave them in good faith and putting it on other business ventures? Is Russ collecting yachts? NOPE, my wallet is sealed until they get their act together. If they mess up the drop limit implementation by telling us which mechs we can drop in I am going back to World of Tanks and I am taking my cash with me. I should be able to play whatever mech I want whenever I want to play it. Period. If they mess with that process I’m out.
#7096
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- Ace Of Spades
- 1,974 posts
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- LocationSeattle, Washington
Posted 25 December 2013 - 12:50 PM
Airborne Thunder, on 25 December 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:
My wallet is sealed for many reasons. This is the only game that actually angers me outside playing it. I heard a few days ago how they plan on implementing the drop limit system. It's like they strive to make this game worse not better. As far as content... where has all our money gone? You would think they would have enough cash to give us what they have promised us. Are they taking the cash we gave them in good faith and putting it on other business ventures? Is Russ collecting yachts? NOPE, my wallet is sealed until they get their act together. If they mess up the drop limit implementation by telling us which mechs we can drop in I am going back to World of Tanks and I am taking my cash with me. I should be able to play whatever mech I want whenever I want to play it. Period. If they mess with that process I’m out.
I dont mind the drop limit system at all. I'm tired of seeing 7 highlanders on one side. I have to bring something meta-esque to stay on point, otherwise I'm hurting the team. That makes zero sense. How else would you balance it? Yet another bloody post with zero suggestions and just a bunch of whine.
I will say this the only reason I'm still playing the game is because of the group that I am in - The Templars. I'm quite sure that I am not the only one that the reason the are still playing is because of their respective Merc Unit/House/Clan etc. The previous MW4 Titles thats what has kept them on the map for so long the competitive play. What PGI should really focus on is the Private drop lobbies. That will open it up at least for us to start playing in some leagues without having to watch other groups sync drop all day in an attempt to get the match they were wanting lol.
#7097
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- Legendary Founder
- 562 posts
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- LocationFiddler's Green
Posted 25 December 2013 - 01:35 PM
Saxie, on 25 December 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:
I dont mind the drop limit system at all. I'm tired of seeing 7 highlanders on one side. I have to bring something meta-esque to stay on point, otherwise I'm hurting the team. That makes zero sense. How else would you balance it? Yet another bloody post with zero suggestions and just a bunch of whine.
I will say this the only reason I'm still playing the game is because of the group that I am in - The Templars. I'm quite sure that I am not the only one that the reason the are still playing is because of their respective Merc Unit/House/Clan etc. The previous MW4 Titles thats what has kept them on the map for so long the competitive play. What PGI should really focus on is the Private drop lobbies. That will open it up at least for us to start playing in some leagues without having to watch other groups sync drop all day in an attempt to get the match they were wanting lol.
Here is my solution: Let players pick the mech they want to play and let the servers decide what lobby the mech joins. It's that easy. The servers should let you have something like 4 assaults/heavies, 4 mediums and 4 lights on any given team. You pick any mech you want to play and click launch. You fill one of those slots based on the mech you chose and you play. PGI is making this way more complicated then it has to be. I would rather play a PUG match with the mech of my choosing then have to be put in some lobby based on some arbitrary faction symbol.
P.S. Sorry to get off topic about how messed up the Clan Collection and Gold Mechs are.
Merry Christmas!
Edited by Airborne Thunder, 25 December 2013 - 04:45 PM.
#7098
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- 89 posts
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Posted 25 December 2013 - 06:22 PM
I'm sorry if there are some STO and SWTOR haters out there, but the fact remains that these two games offer a fully developed MMO experience free of charge alongside their monetized aspects. STO puts MASSIVE amounts of time into new content each season. This content is not directly monetized and is what keeps players interested in the game. SWTOR, despite having probably the worst F2P model, is even starting to change their approach, such as giving away their last expansion (galactic starfighter) free of charge. While both games are heavily focused on microtransactions, they put in at least as much "free" content as they do monetized content.
You simply do NOT have any game content in MWO beyond a 12 v 12 sandbox. And yet they try to charge hundreds of dollars for mechs without even giving us details of what we're buying. Sorry, but there is just no way to compare MWO favorably to ANY other major MMO out there, either on content (which is non-existent in MWO) or pricing (which is FAR higher for MWO than other games). MWO is also MORE based on a P2W model than either STO or SWTOR, because these two games at least give you the OPTION of grinding for monetized items with in-game currencies. Want a camo pattern or color for your mech? Other than six or so basic colors you HAVE to purchase it with cash. Camo is NOT just cosmetic because olive drab is not a very effective pattern for most maps. Want a consumable that requires multiple modules to replicate the same in-game effect? Again, you need to purchase it with real cash. They even want to start charging CB or MC to shuffle the DROP organization in the future. It's like MWO has taken the WORST aspects of P2W MMOs and combined them with ... no content. None. No reason to fight in endless 12 v 12 matches. No reason to interact with the temporary group of random players you will only see for 10 minutes. Really no reason to continue playing the game at all.
Sorry, but again my answer is N.O.P.E.
You simply do NOT have any game content in MWO beyond a 12 v 12 sandbox. And yet they try to charge hundreds of dollars for mechs without even giving us details of what we're buying. Sorry, but there is just no way to compare MWO favorably to ANY other major MMO out there, either on content (which is non-existent in MWO) or pricing (which is FAR higher for MWO than other games). MWO is also MORE based on a P2W model than either STO or SWTOR, because these two games at least give you the OPTION of grinding for monetized items with in-game currencies. Want a camo pattern or color for your mech? Other than six or so basic colors you HAVE to purchase it with cash. Camo is NOT just cosmetic because olive drab is not a very effective pattern for most maps. Want a consumable that requires multiple modules to replicate the same in-game effect? Again, you need to purchase it with real cash. They even want to start charging CB or MC to shuffle the DROP organization in the future. It's like MWO has taken the WORST aspects of P2W MMOs and combined them with ... no content. None. No reason to fight in endless 12 v 12 matches. No reason to interact with the temporary group of random players you will only see for 10 minutes. Really no reason to continue playing the game at all.
Sorry, but again my answer is N.O.P.E.
Edited by Devari, 25 December 2013 - 06:28 PM.
#7099
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- Legendary Founder
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Posted 25 December 2013 - 06:49 PM
Devari, on 25 December 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:
I'm sorry if there are some STO and SWTOR haters out there, but the fact remains that these two games offer a fully developed MMO experience free of charge alongside their monetized aspects. STO puts MASSIVE amounts of time into new content each season. This content is not directly monetized and is what keeps players interested in the game. SWTOR, despite having probably the worst F2P model, is even starting to change their approach, such as giving away their last expansion (galactic starfighter) free of charge. While both games are heavily focused on microtransactions, they put in at least as much "free" content as they do monetized content.
You simply do NOT have any game content in MWO beyond a 12 v 12 sandbox. And yet they try to charge hundreds of dollars for mechs without even giving us details of what we're buying. Sorry, but there is just no way to compare MWO favorably to ANY other major MMO out there, either on content (which is non-existent in MWO) or pricing (which is FAR higher for MWO than other games). MWO is also MORE based on a P2W model than either STO or SWTOR, because these two games at least give you the OPTION of grinding for monetized items with in-game currencies. Want a camo pattern or color for your mech? Other than six or so basic colors you HAVE to purchase it with cash. Camo is NOT just cosmetic because olive drab is not a very effective pattern for most maps. Want a consumable that requires multiple modules to replicate the same in-game effect? Again, you need to purchase it with real cash. They even want to start charging CB or MC to shuffle the DROP organization in the future. It's like MWO has taken the WORST aspects of P2W MMOs and combined them with ... no content. None. No reason to fight in endless 12 v 12 matches. No reason to interact with the temporary group of random players you will only see for 10 minutes. Really no reason to continue playing the game at all.
Sorry, but again my answer is N.O.P.E.
You simply do NOT have any game content in MWO beyond a 12 v 12 sandbox. And yet they try to charge hundreds of dollars for mechs without even giving us details of what we're buying. Sorry, but there is just no way to compare MWO favorably to ANY other major MMO out there, either on content (which is non-existent in MWO) or pricing (which is FAR higher for MWO than other games). MWO is also MORE based on a P2W model than either STO or SWTOR, because these two games at least give you the OPTION of grinding for monetized items with in-game currencies. Want a camo pattern or color for your mech? Other than six or so basic colors you HAVE to purchase it with cash. Camo is NOT just cosmetic because olive drab is not a very effective pattern for most maps. Want a consumable that requires multiple modules to replicate the same in-game effect? Again, you need to purchase it with real cash. They even want to start charging CB or MC to shuffle the DROP organization in the future. It's like MWO has taken the WORST aspects of P2W MMOs and combined them with ... no content. None. No reason to fight in endless 12 v 12 matches. No reason to interact with the temporary group of random players you will only see for 10 minutes. Really no reason to continue playing the game at all.
Sorry, but again my answer is N.O.P.E.
Any time I look at the Clan Collection and begin to drool I watch this video and it brings me back to reality.
#7100
Posted 25 December 2013 - 07:18 PM
Devari, on 25 December 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:
MWO is also MORE based on a P2W model than either STO or SWTOR, because these two games at least give you the OPTION of grinding for monetized items with in-game currencies. Want a camo pattern or color for your mech? Other than six or so basic colors you HAVE to purchase it with cash. Camo is NOT just cosmetic because olive drab is not a very effective pattern for most maps. Want a consumable that requires multiple modules to replicate the same in-game effect? Again, you need to purchase it with real cash. They even want to start charging CB or MC to shuffle the DROP organization in the future. It's like MWO has taken the WORST aspects of P2W MMOs and combined them with ... no content. None. No reason to fight in endless 12 v 12 matches. No reason to interact with the temporary group of random players you will only see for 10 minutes. Really no reason to continue playing the game at all.
Sorry, but again my answer is N.O.P.E.
Sorry, but again my answer is N.O.P.E.
SWTOR and STO are entirely different games from MWO. MWO is a direct multiplayer combat game and includes no PvE content by design (they simply lacked the funding and staff to make that big a game). MWO is much more directly comparable to games like World of Tanks and War Thunder.
That aside... There's lots to complain about with MWO, but Pay To Win is a huge, huge stretch. When you start stretching for ridiculous arguments like these, you damage the credibility of your post rather than helping it.
Camo? Really? There's several cbill colors which can be used over all the maps, but camo doesn't actually help disguise your mech at all. At any distance, all mechs are just blacks. This distance coincides nicely with maximum scanning range. Nobody ever fails to notice a mech due to camo. Not to mention how you can't choose your map, so any camo chosen to try to hide could only work on a specific map anyways (if it worked, which it doesn't).
Consumables? You don't need to purchase them with MC, you can buy (a single!) c-bill consumable that has exactly the same effect as the single MC consumable. They cost 40,000 cbills - easily affordable even on a loss. Of course, you need to unlock the upgraded version with your GXP, but this is no different than any other F2P game with XP vs. Paid unlocks - you either pay to unlock things quickly or play to unlock them over time. It's still pretty trivial to unlock them.
With both of these, you're simply flat out wrong.
Now, when you want to start talking about the worst aspects of Pay To Win MMO's? How about Golden Ammo? That's directly P2W. There's a whole world of terrible in Pay To Win games, and MWO has none of that.
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