7768 replies to this topic

[RG Notch]

CoffiNail, on 08 January 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

This thread is fun to keep coming back to periodically.


Yep... and for what, most of a year now?

Always funny how many fail to understand that the groups who make the mechs AND levels are not the same doing the back end.

Also always funny how many fail to understand that PGI has had their priorities on monetization and not game development for more than a year. If PGI had spent some of the money it took in on higher folks on other parts than those that they could sell they might be in better shape on those fronts. Funny no? Using resources for something that can't be sold for money, crazy right. It's awesome that over time nothing has changed at PGI. Consistency.

[Nekki Basara]

CoffiNail, on 08 January 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

This thread is fun to keep coming back to periodically.


Yep... and for what, most of a year now?

Always funny how many fail to understand that the groups who make the mechs AND levels are not the same doing the back end.

But the group doing the rest of the dev work AND the group doing the day-to-day job of just making sure the servers don't fall over ARE the same group, AND FURTHER it's a smaller group than the artists churning out lots and lots of mechs to pay for, but ****** all maps to use them on.

This isn't even funny, it's just sad.

[Alexandrix]

RG Notch, on 08 January 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

Also always funny how many fail to understand that PGI has had their priorities on monetization and not game development for more than a year. If PGI had spent some of the money it took in on higher folks on other parts than those that they could sell they might be in better shape on those fronts. Funny no? Using resources for something that can't be sold for money, crazy right. It's awesome that over time nothing has changed at PGI. Consistency.

Nekki Basara, on 08 January 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

But the group doing the rest of the dev work AND the group doing the day-to-day job of just making sure the servers don't fall over ARE the same group, AND FURTHER it's a smaller group than the artists churning out lots and lots of mechs to pay for, but ****** all maps to use them on.

This isn't even funny, it's just sad.

What's even funnier/sadder is that all the disappointment could have been avoided if PGI had just been open and honest from the start.If they had came out the gate with

"hey guys,look,we really want to make this awesome mechwarrior game.The thing is,we are a small company with very limited resources so we can really only delivery a basic and minimum viable product until we bring in enough funds to really start beefing up the core game play.In order to bring in enough funds we are going to have to focus on producing things that we actually make funds on.Namely mechs.After we make enough to fill out the team and have a stable financial base,we would like to go forward fleshing out the game with things like community warfare and a better UI.So please bear with us in the meantime"

No,that wouldn't have solved everything,but at least then people would know before what's up.
But,I don't think that was PGI's intention at all anyways.I think they just wanted to grab as much cash from a beloved IP as they could,with as little effort as possible.At least,that's the way it seems to me anyways.

What we got instead was a year and a half of broken promises and over priced cash grabs.

Edited by Alexandrix, 08 January 2014 - 02:21 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Whatzituyah, on 06 January 2014 - 11:37 PM, said:

I think people who think this deal is good go look up Angry Joes video of "the top 10 Controversies of 2013" his point of view should be seen at number 5 I believe correct me if I am wrong and then I will edit this post sometime today*.

Number 6 and every time a thread gets made on the video, it gets deleted for "harsh language" even if a direct link isn't left in the post, lol

[Nekki Basara]

I love how it's linking to something that contains harsh language that causes the deletion, and not the existence of harsh language on the post that does it.

In the spirit of such, I give you.... this.

[Chronojam]

CoffiNail, on 08 January 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

This thread is fun to keep coming back to periodically.


Yep... and for what, most of a year now?

Always funny how many fail to understand that the groups who make the mechs AND levels are not the same doing the back end.

The guys allocating staffing and resources for art assets are the same who allocate staffing and resources for functionality and community relations and marketing.

"We badly allocated resources" is a poor excuse to explain away complaints of "You are badly allocating resources."

[Shadowsword8]

CoffiNail, on 08 January 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

This thread is fun to keep coming back to periodically.


Yep... and for what, most of a year now?

Always funny how many fail to understand that the groups who make the mechs AND levels are not the same doing the back end.

20 devs for mechs and maps

18 devs for everything else.


If you don't see this as a serious problem, you're a hopeless cause...

[Blurry]

Nimura Nekogami, on 07 January 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

Maybe

We dont know how the mechs look ingame or how they work. As far as i can tell, ive seen a shadow in a crappy trailer.

Clan Tech? Dont know what it will be in MWO but im expacting seperated ques like those for 3rd PV.
They selling some thoughts at the moment.

If Clans are better than IS it would be crying. (and a user drop. who wants to get beaten for not buying a clan mech?)
Or....Clan Tech ist nearly the same as IS and Clanboys will complain because of this and the "package pricing was high because clans are better".

So at the moment PGI achived little in the BETA and nothing after its launch. And most of us said that MWO isnt ready for launch.
MWO is like Team Fortress 2. Funny in a way. But nothing worth spending high amounts of money.
I did it not for Mechs.....i thought i support PGI and look what they said!

They didnt work on this game because they waited to secure the licence. They lied. They said they work on CW, UI 2.0, DX11, collision and they dont. Thats a fact....revealed pretty late for my taste and with no excuses. They complemanting them self for collecting money. Thats a thing wich makes me angry in some way.

The thing is: If they would have been honest all the time i wouldt have spend 170 € on STEAM sale. PGI would have get it.
(170 € is the masakari pack )

Clan Tech MUST be superior period. That is the reason Russ gave for the pricing. They have to deliver on that or admit that their pricing is inconsistent. It really is due to the shrinking population and required revenue derived from that population to keep at previous levels so they increase the price. Why do they need such huge infusions of capital on a regular basis? Why cant they monitize the game properly to run off micro-transactions and require macro to stay afloat?
But hey nothing but unicorns and islands here.

[DrSlamastika]

I want see full picture of those mechs (not only portraits),
I need also know hardpoints before a buy . . . and what wariants will be the two others?

Or it will be follow this info?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Warhawk

[SumoRex]

I understand it, ...the payment model for game content is still in its infancy and I'm not totally against paying for content. I've bought almost everything so far. But PGI, seriously, you need to consider the longevity of the product.
You're killing the golden goose...

[HaddadRazor]

I got very excited with the Timber Wolf mech, i loved it on the other mechwarrior games, but i have to agree with others members that with this price its very hard to get it.

[KursedVixen]

DrSlamastika, on 11 January 2014 - 01:13 PM, said:

I want see full picture of those mechs (not only portraits),
I need also know hardpoints before a buy . . . and what wariants will be the two others?

Or it will be follow this info?
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Warhawk

Clan mechs don't have variants they have configurations. Common loadouts if you will because they are omnimechs.


which brings me to my point the clan mechs should be omnimechs because later in the lifetime of this game there will be inner sphere omnimechs don't dissapoint me and make it like mechwarrior 4 where there still was no such thing as omni. You already have the visual change on the mechs as it is So what is wrong with making a real omnimech? I agree that clan needs to be balanced out ,but I think they need to be slightly more powerful otherwise what is an inferior clan mech? it's not a clan mech if it doesn't have advantages over the inner sphere I'm pretty sure you will have some Inner sphere purist or people who will still use their old mechs I mean we spent time and c-bills and maybe money on those mechs to think everyone will just dump the old mechs is Ludicrous. Oh and yes WHAT WEAPONS ARE ON THEM!?


On a side note I don't care if you can't completely redo your inner sphere mech with all clan weapons ,but I do know that clan mechs better have 1.2slot double heat sinks 2. 7 slot Ferro and endo and 3. slightly higher than normal heat efficency to counteract the higher heat weapons 4.Slightly higher than normal armor (not Op just a little more notice I said Slightly Sarna notes that the Nova and Warhawk's prime configerations run hot so yes Clan mechs can overheat ,but they don't as often have hot builds like that because their tech is better.

Edited by KursedVixen, 12 January 2014 - 06:18 AM.

[DrSlamastika]

BTW here are full pictures of clan mechs:

http://www.pinterest.com/koesir/mechs/

[Canadian Attack Beaver]

Blurry, on 11 January 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

Clan Tech MUST be superior period. That is the reason Russ gave for the pricing. They have to deliver on that or admit that their pricing is inconsistent. It really is due to the shrinking population and required revenue derived from that population to keep at previous levels so they increase the price. Why do they need such huge infusions of capital on a regular basis? Why cant they monitize the game properly to run off micro-transactions and require macro to stay afloat?
But hey nothing but unicorns and islands here.

You are exactly right! Ah, so refreshing to see that other people have a grasp on reality around here. So many brown-nosing whiteknights that it's tiresome to continually read their drivel.

I love Russ said the better Clan tech justifies the higher price. Beyond the comedic value in stating this, it puts PGI into one of two positions:
1) Clan mechs are materially better than current IS mechs, leading to a temporary Pay-to-Win period before Clan mechs are available for C-bill purchase
2) Clan mechs have different customization options, but are not materially better than current IS mechs. This means the inflated prices were nothing but a load of **** price gouge on the part of PGI.

Both of these outcomes are bad for the game. I look forward to seeing which occurs!

[SweetJackal]

Canadian Attack Beaver, on 13 January 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

You are exactly right! Ah, so refreshing to see that other people have a grasp on reality around here. So many brown-nosing whiteknights that it's tiresome to continually read their drivel.

I love Russ said the better Clan tech justifies the higher price. Beyond the comedic value in stating this, it puts PGI into one of two positions:
1) Clan mechs are materially better than current IS mechs, leading to a temporary Pay-to-Win period before Clan mechs are available for C-bill purchase
2) Clan mechs have different customization options, but are not materially better than current IS mechs. This means the inflated prices were nothing but a load of **** price gouge on the part of PGI.

Both of these outcomes are bad for the game. I look forward to seeing which occurs!

To be fair, from a design perspective there is a 3rd option: Increased Power, Increased Difficulty. Weapons and tech that is superior in ideal conditions but more difficult than IS Tech to use properly. This would put IS Tech in the comfortable spot of "Simple and effective" with Clan Tech being "Complex and Powerful."

An example would be Clan Lasers having an increased maximum damage with a damage ramp up. The weapon deals more damage per tick for each tick the weapon is held on target. So a 2LL rake across a Light would deal less damage with Clan Tech than IS tech but a 6 ML volley that is held onto the RT of an Atlas for the full beam duration would deal more damage with Clan Tech than IS Tech.

I do like this example as it separates the Clan Lasers from IS Lasers in the same manner that the LBX-AC/10 is different from the AC/10. It provides different options in the current realm of Torso Twisting, having the Clan Lasers pull more weight the longer the game goes on and having more interplay between the pilots when they are used.

Also, if Clan Mechs are released with CBill variants when the Clan Collections are put into the game then any power differences won't cause a Pay To Win situation. These two steps could benefit the game at the time, Clans Collection Buyers getting instant access with Prime Variants that have the CBill/XP boosts attached while Free Players can get access at the same time through CBills.

That said, do I trust PGI to be able to balance all Clan Tech along these lines and provide a solid, viable product in a manner that doesn't favor paying customers over free players?

Hell No.

I have no trust for their deadlines, features of the game have been constantly delayed to the point that they even broke their very public deadlines put out at the "Launch Party" to entice people to buy Project Phoenix. I have no trust for the company to be honest about it's development or practices. This has been the same song and dance since the Closed Beta even before the Founders were injected into it.

Even if they had met every deadline their lack of understanding of the "Micro" part of Micro-transactions keeps my wallet closed. Project Phoenix has been the one exception as felt like a good price point for what was being offered at the highest tier, moreso with Saber, after they started to release the in game models and once you ignored the Locust.

[Shadowsword8]

Canadian Attack Beaver, on 13 January 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

You are exactly right! Ah, so refreshing to see that other people have a grasp on reality around here. So many brown-nosing whiteknights that it's tiresome to continually read their drivel.

I love Russ said the better Clan tech justifies the higher price. Beyond the comedic value in stating this, it puts PGI into one of two positions:
1) Clan mechs are materially better than current IS mechs, leading to a temporary Pay-to-Win period before Clan mechs are available for C-bill purchase
2) Clan mechs have different customization options, but are not materially better than current IS mechs. This means the inflated prices were nothing but a load of **** price gouge on the part of PGI.

Both of these outcomes are bad for the game. I look forward to seeing which occurs!

I suspect they'll go with the first outcome, because it also carry some of the benefits (for them, not the players) of the second outcome as well.

Even after clan mechs become alaivable for C-bills, if they're more powerfull than IS mechs while costing, like, twice as much, they'll still have created a situation where everything the players bought so far become non-competitive (so they need to start over forking money), while increasing the grind to get things without using MC, thus making the credit card option more attractive. Of course, they'll try to keep up the image of being attached to balance...

[RG Notch]

Canadian Attack Beaver, on 13 January 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

You are exactly right! Ah, so refreshing to see that other people have a grasp on reality around here. So many brown-nosing whiteknights that it's tiresome to continually read their drivel.

I love Russ said the better Clan tech justifies the higher price. Beyond the comedic value in stating this, it puts PGI into one of two positions:
1) Clan mechs are materially better than current IS mechs, leading to a temporary Pay-to-Win period before Clan mechs are available for C-bill purchase
2) Clan mechs have different customization options, but are not materially better than current IS mechs. This means the inflated prices were nothing but a load of **** price gouge on the part of PGI.

Both of these outcomes are bad for the game. I look forward to seeing which occurs!

You do realize this is PGI, you've neglected the third option. The Clan mechs start out as OP and P2W to sell Clan packs and because they have no idea how to balance and then after enough complaints they nerf them to worthless and then have to deal with selling them at high prices despite this.
Basically, they have painted themselves into a corner by selling them at higher prices yet claiming they won't obsolete IS mechs. Based on their proven ability or should I say inability to balance current mechs and weapons I expect more bumbling.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

They sell every 'mech that comes stock with and XL engine, endo steel structure, ferro fibrous armor, and/or double heat sinks for more (I'm talking about C-Bills or MC ... not real cash for pre-purchase packages) ... has the AS7-K made the AS7-D-DC obsolete? No? How about the STK-5S making the STK-3F less popular?

While I am concerned about how they balance Clan 'mechs and weapons while allowing for meaningful customization, cost has not a valid argument for balance in over a year (since repair and rearm was removed ... and it wasn't really valid then).

[Iqfish]

So much Q.Q

I'm a good swimmer, but the stream of this giant river is pulling me down.

You guys are actually still ranting about the fact, that PGI offers generous people Clanse before they are buyable with C-Bills?

Go outside. And in case you wonder, the bright yellow thing up there might be the sun.

Or your gloriole over your head, because you are right at everything and never did something wrong

[Imperius]

IqfishLP, on 14 January 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

So much Q.Q

I'm a good swimmer, but the stream of this giant river is pulling me down.

You guys are actually still ranting about the fact, that PGI offers generous people Clanse before they are buyable with C-Bills?

Go outside. And in case you wonder, the bright yellow thing up there might be the sun.

Or your gloriole over your head, because you are right at everything and never did something wrong

Agreed. Have you seen the Hobbit? The sun turns trolls to stone. That is why they fear it they does.