7768 replies to this topic

[Jyi]

This is ridicilous. I for one am not going to pay for that.

And to CMetz: You say people got what they paid for. That's not true! We were promised a game for supporting the development with Founder's package. This isn't a game, this is a "collect and pimp the mechs". A game would have some sort of goal to achieve, some sort of progression beyond having more and more mechs. You're the one who's being entitled. Entitled in thinking that you're above the rest of the community. Not to mention your appalling ethics towards poor people in real life. You're probably not even rich yourself, you just think that by behaving like rich people you can become one.

Also, worthy to note: I was thinking of making a poll about this "Clan Mech Package™", but I realised I can't make one. I made one back in beta about the prices of paints and camouflages and it gave the developers some good statistics about how much people are willing to pay. I guess someone in the money-receiving-end got angry about having to cut down the prices for virtual colors and thought that would reduce the income. So I guess it's better to keep both the community and the developers in dark about real statistics? Instead of a clear poll to show a good approximation of the percentage of people who are going to pay for this kind of "scrap" and who would be willing to pay for it if the prices were lower (giving everyone a clear picture what kind of prices would give the best profits and best consumer satisfaction), we get this ridicilous feedback thread. It has 179 pages, so I guess that's one indicator how strongly people feel - but for the rest of it, all the feedback is getting drowned and it takes ages to read all this stuff. And you won't get a clear picture of how much people would be willing to pay to maximize the profits.

All I can do is ask: how much would you be willing to pay for the highest tier package? With the game in its current state, I wouldn't buy it for 10 dollars.

[Roadbeer]

DocBach, on 14 December 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

It would have been awesome if one of the packs was the uller, black hawk, mad cat and daishi like the city tech 2 boxed set came with.

That would be Awesomesauce

[Yakatuus]

I hate the timing of this announcement. It seems like another case of trying to bite off more than you can chew. You're trying to solve two massive problems without having either aspect in place. If we (including you guys) were more comfortable with how CW was playing out, then you'd be able to input those experiences into most effectively introducing the Clans.

My major feedback: June is too soon. I was hoping for MAJOR separation between us IS players and those Clanners. I don't want Clan tech on my side; I don't want to see it in the southern IS as prominently in the north. I want to fight them. All of this COULD be realized, but it's just too early to do it. We don't even know how these systems will end up because ?????????? I guess other things were happening? Development delays. That's cool! I get it. So don't do this tho. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face.

I am so disappointed, and frustrated, specifically as a Founder. No Clans before CW, yes, that is our rallying cry. But we have legitimate reasons that are actually feedback: you are doing too much at once, and it's going to hurt the game. I think that June is just too soon; CW will not be done by then, certainly not balanced or "fully implemented." Yes, we know you can and always do deliver mechs on time. That's part of what frustrates us. That's what the image is about.

Your accountants probably tell you that we will pay $10 per mech. We didn't. We paid for the development of CW. We want to pay for the Clans. We really do. We just want what we paid for the first time around before shelling out even more cash.

[KnightWing]

Mystere, on 14 December 2013 - 08:25 PM, said:

That's $275 for one lousy ship.
Sure, you can "ride" it with your friends, if you had any.

On the other hand, the top-tier Clan pack gives you 24 mechs, whether or not you like them all of course.

I just gotta say, it's not even close *if* SC is everything Chris says it'll be.

You're comparing a package with 24 mechs in a *released* game that's only deathmatch/CTF with a multi-crew ship in a persistent universe with a planned 100+ systems, all with locations to visit and things to do. It's also not just friends "riding"; there's stuff for the people onboard to do, like man the turret or jump in the snub fighter to launch and provide escort). The ship can also be damaged/lost/upgraded/overclocked/insured and it can be used for...whatever purpose you want (hauling cargo, for example).

Sure, we only have the hangar so far (which is pretty cool on its own), but this is also a pre-alpha product being compared to a "released" one. If things stay relatively on-track (modest delays happen in development, and I've been more than patient with PGI about MWO with very little to show for it), there should be significantly more to do in SC than there is in MWO by the the time clan mechs are even out... There are never any guarantees in development, and hey, I could be wrong, but don't bash until you taste the pudding, because that's where the proof will or won't be.

I should also point out Chris Roberts has made it abundantly clear everything that matters will be earnable in-game without the need for real cash. (Sure, you will have to grind some.) The clan mechs may be earnable by grinding, but the gold mechs with exclusive modules and such? Not looking like it. Same with the hero mechs. People have varying definitions of P2W, but for me, it's stuff that you can *only* get for real $ that's better than the stuff you can actually earn.

So sure, 24 mechs is great, but I don't care if it's 100 mechs; if there's nothing to DO with them besides the grind itself, that's pointless. On the other hand, if Star Citizen can do even half of what's promised, even if there are modest delays, you could spend your whole "career" in a Constellation with tons of variety in what you can do.

The truth is, as cool as the mech designs are, it's the last thing MWO really needs. It needs CW and some meaning besides arena modes, and it needs it yesterday...

Edited by KnightWing, 14 December 2013 - 08:57 PM.

[warp103]

wait wait 240 for broken clan tech. ROFLMAO. Pls sell this IP. you guy are to funny. Cash grab on broken tech. messing with tonnage{that a hard rule you want to break} Wow PGI is trolling us.

[Ravewolf]

This move by PGI is actually scaring me a bit. I really love this game and don't want to see it disappear under financial pressure. And I can only conclude that those pressures must already be pretty high at this point for such a money grab to be going on. This either indicates a possibly poor business plan, or investors with unrealistic demands or expectations, either of which means bad news for the long-term future of the game.

It feels as if they really NEED for these cash grabs to work, and like the ante keeps going up on the demand for more cash in order for this experiment to continue. Again, that implies possibly bad management or ever increasing expectations that can't be met forever, as such grabs won't work in the long run as they run out of mechs to sell and user excitement over new goodies wears thin. What happens when the mech sales don't add enough to the company coffers anymore and the investors realize that the premium time sales model won't work? I think we can guess.

That said, I'm still buying all these mechs.

Edited by Ravewolf, 14 December 2013 - 08:59 PM.

[Texas Merc]

[Kristina Sarah McEvedy]

Victor Morson, on 14 December 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

I'm being semi-serious here. Does anyone know how much IGP/PGI is worth?

I swear to God I want to get in touch with some of the LL devs and start a kickstarter to buy PGI. The way things are going they can't be worth that much.

This needs to happen. I'd pay for stock in PGI via Kickstarter if it means we get what we actually want.

[Sandpit]

Texas Merc, on 14 December 2013 - 09:00 PM, said:

Just the fact that you used a /\/ / \/\ song gives you a +1 from me

I don't understand the scoffing at the price point. It's on par with everything else that has been sold thus far. Especially the packages. The packages might be on the pricey side but the value is there. About $10 a mech for the mechs and mech bays you get is actually a pretty awesome deal.

The fact that we don't have a full game yet should be the primary concern. It would be like going down to gamestop and buying 4 games, getting home and finding out you can only play the first 10 out of 50 levels for two years, then (if it's still a viable product) you'll get the rest of the game. It's the same thing here. It's ridiculous that they really expect and believe that the majority of the player base (because I honestly feel it is the majority given much of the feedback I've seen but I am also realistic enough to know that there are those that have and will purchase this package which is perfectly ok) is going to drop 200+ dollars on a game you can't finish? If you really hit a successful mark on this without implementing CW, UI2.0, etc. I'll be surprised but you still won't get my $200
I can kill those clan mechs in my current mechs without spending another dime and let someone else fund it for you. It's a free game and from here on it that's exactly how I shall treat it until I get a game that I feel is valuable and deep enough to warrant this kind of purchase. Not a rant or rage, just a simple statement of fact from my pocketbook

[Meta 4]

I was excited about clans before this "sale."
Now I am completely turned off of this game.

I have plenty of money to buy the biggest packages, but I am choosing not to give PGI any more money
There is no value in any of this content.
Your company failed to produce in-depth features for the game.

The blatant cash grab is also very depressing.
Almost seems like you are going to just take the money and run.

I believe I will take a year off from this game,and come back if you actually make a game that deserves to be out of beta.



Hey look I found some more free time!

[Sandpit]

Joseph Marik, on 14 December 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

This needs to happen. I'd pay for stock in PGI via Kickstarter if it means we get what we actually want.

Just from a realistic standpoint you'd be better served finding some programmers, artists, coders, etc., put together your own team, start a kickstarter for Mech Fighers Online: Inner Galactic Battles, and then developing your own game if that's what you really wanted to do. Just change the look and names of the units involved. Just remember this, just because YOU like your idea and game doesn't mean everyone else would. There's more to making a game a commercially viable product but it could be done

[Jack Gallows]

Sandpit, on 14 December 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Just the fact that you used a /\/ / \/\ song gives you a +1 from me

I don't understand the scoffing at the price point. It's on par with everything else that has been sold thus far. Especially the packages. The packages might be on the pricey side but the value is there. About $10 a mech for the mechs and mech bays you get is actually a pretty awesome deal.

It's the structure of the packages as well as how absurd the 500 packs are. In essence, there should not be 500 dollar packs and the other packs should behave more akin to the Founder Packs or Phoenix Packs. Actually, a better system would allow for buying a 'mech separately without having to go through others while also having combo packs. Choice is important, and this is just a straight line forcing people to pay money for things they don't want.

Sandpit, on 14 December 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Just from a realistic standpoint you'd be better served finding some programmers, artists, coders, etc., put together your own team, start a kickstarter for Mech Fighers Online: Inner Galactic Battles, and then developing your own game if that's what you really wanted to do. Just change the look and names of the units involved. Just remember this, just because YOU like your idea and game doesn't mean everyone else would. There's more to making a game a commercially viable product but it could be done

That's why you go to the license holders and the people that have control over the IP.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 14 December 2013 - 09:20 PM.

[Sandpit]

The Underdog, on 14 December 2013 - 09:16 PM, said:

I believe I will take a year off from this game,and come back if you actually make a game that deserves to be out of beta.

Unfortunately this really has no impact on the dev team. You've already handed them cash so you're a paid customer. If you enjoy the game as is, then continue playing. Just don't expect it to be any more than what it is today and don't open your wallet to them. I enjoy playing with my unit but I can't continue to support this company financially.
Leaving the game should be done because you don't enjoy the game, not because PGI seems very inept at being a professional company.

[Jack Gallows]

Sandpit, on 14 December 2013 - 09:21 PM, said:

Leaving the game should be done because you don't enjoy the game, not because PGI seems very inept at being a professional company.

Well, honestly it can be either or depending on your principles. It could also be both, as well.

I get your intent, but you can't completely separate the developer/publisher from the game completely in either decision as one effects the other.

Eventually it's going to affect how you play the game. Bad decisions by the dev will either directly impact you by putting out broken/crappy content/features, or indirectly by a reduction in active players as well as a degradation of community, and services.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 14 December 2013 - 09:27 PM.

[Damecles]

The package is interesting, but as a freebirth warrior I will think about it:). It's funny a lot of people on these forums whined and cried for clan mechs. Now that they are available to purchase everyone is crying fowl over the price. They work out to be about 30 bucks a mech which is pretty reasonable. I bought 2 ships in Star Citizen for 250 dollars each, so 240 for 24 mechs with mech bays is not too bad in my book.
I really want CW before these clan mechs come out, but I won't swear and throw temper tantrums like others on this forum. True Mechwarriors don't cry:)

[Bophades]

Charge more imo. Clantech should cost waaaaaaaay more.

[Sandpit]

Jack Gallows, on 14 December 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

It's the structure of the packages as well as how absurd the 500 packs are. In essence, there should not be 500 dollar packs and the other packs should behave more akin to the Founder Packs or Phoenix Packs. Actually, a better system would allow for buying a 'mech separately without having to go through others while also having combo packs. Choice is important, and this is just a straight line forcing people to pay money for things they don't want.




That's why you go to the license holders and the people that have control over the IP.

Many will disagree wit you on that though. Value is subjective. I honestly believe the value of the packs themselves are appropriate to the price. I don't feel that the value of the game itself is appropriate for the price though. There's simply not enough game. There's nothing but a simplistic death match type game. That's it. It's very repetitive. The company has absolutely no idea of how to communicate. The company does not communicate the game well at all. They do not let the player base know what's going on, what's coming up, or how tings are implemented. They implement no new content except for mechs and a couple of maps and the have this whole "let's not tell anyone anything because it will be a great "surprise" for them".
Most successful companies in this industry are quick to let their player base know upcoming features, timelines, etc. because it helps generate interest and increase retention. The only time you see this kind of mentality is when games are in alphas and betas. This is done so that competitors can't snake ideas and use them in their own games. There's a few other reasons as well but this is one of the biggest. It's understandable at that point. It's the same reason players often sign things like NDAs while in these stages.
We're well past these stages yet the dev team seems incapable of shifting mentalities from this stage to a full commercial release and launch. I honestly think this was demonstrated in the launch party. A multi-million dollar company couldn't muster a better and more hyped launch than they did. It was more like a bunch of gaming buddies having a lan party with some cold pizza and beer instead of a premiere launch. That's not a "bad" thing I think it just illustrates the mentality. PGI seems to have this "it's ours" mentality when it comes to this game. I think it honeslty comes from the fact that they're fans if the IP. They seem to make decisions and designs based on what THEY enjoy which is often times at odds with their customers. I really hope that by posting things like this it might actually get them to step out of their box a little

[Aim64C]

Jack Gallows, on 14 December 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

It's the structure of the packages as well as how absurd the 500 packs are. In essence, there should not be 500 dollar packs and the other packs should behave more akin to the Founder Packs or Phoenix Packs. Actually, a better system would allow for buying a 'mech separately without having to go through others while also having combo packs. Choice is important, and this is just a straight line forcing people to pay money for things they don't want.




That's why you go to the license holders and the people that have control over the IP.

"Whales" are not a bad thing to have in the community. A number of games have had $1K and $5K buy-in options that did just fine. This interview discusses some of those points, here:

http://venturebeat.c...e-crowdfunding/

The thing is that MWO is largely beyond the point where "Whale Packages" are a good idea. They work great in the beginning - but tend to be perceived negatively after "Launch Day." What the game needs to focus on is drawing upon 'new' "whales" to buy the convenience items and smaller trinkets or enduring game features.

There is a lot of good stuff in that interview regarding Free To Play monetizing and structuring.

There is also some good stuff here:

GDC Vault - F2P the Wrong Way: Age of Empires Online

MWO performed a "Soft Launch" - which is something it should never have done, being part of an established title and competitive genre.

There is, also, the mentality at PGI that merely creating 'content' in the form of digital models and resources will continue to drive player interest and revenues. While there will always be a group of people who will support the game and purchase the content - it will become evident that the response PGI saw from Phoenix will, likely, not be replicated in the Clan Collection. Perhaps the increased price will make the smaller number of investors contribute a similar amount of capital - but I imagine the interest will only be around 30% of what Phoenix managed to drive.

If PGI actually had invested large sums of money into the game - it would be a painful lesson in business and production dynamics. However - the lack of development on the game suggests that very little of the $5M revenue from the Founders Package and the "sold better than expected" Phoenix Packages (of unknown revenue totals - likely surpassing the Founders program by two fold, judging by the number of badges floating around).... not to mention the MC purchases... are going toward developing the game.

Which means, when the game displays signs of no longer being an easy cash-in, they will close it down, having made roughly $20-30M in profit. The game couldn't have cost more than $2M to produce.

[GZBLASTERMASTER]

There is nothing fascinating about the release of gameplay mechanics for Clan tech because of the lack of rules and discipline by the players themselves. We know dam well 4 Madcats will demolish 4 Catapults, a clansmen wouldn't even engage. They would pause short of range and let one, maybe two, go meet the four Cats. In the ugly world of online gaming, only CW administration would ensure this scenario as described. Changing Clan tech assures this will never happen as it should, ever. I understand the alteration of the item specifics for "fun and fairness", but the Clans will only exist in name only in this game as a result. The omnimech architecture development statements are intriguing still, it forces the player to change their style of play a bit, yet how this pans out as anything other than red vs. blue I don't understand as of yet without piloting one in combat. The bottom line is the asking price for these packages really isn't warranted if PGI plans to balance them with IS mechs and possibly allow clan tech to be mounted in them...which they better dam well do since they charged $37 for the Boars Head Atlas and real world dollars for all other hero mechs to date, it's bad business to scrap heap any effectiveness they might have had in light of superior technology even if they have been used to death already. The addition of the Clans is interesting, but the marketing and the delivery...I know times change and inflation alters quality and value, but it's way too much. After having a fit over the foolishness, I hope their is a real value behind the lofty price tag.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Damecles, on 14 December 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

They work out to be about 30 bucks a mech which is pretty reasonable.

Getting $10 a mech actually - each level gives you 1 'hero' +2 variants, just like in the phoenix package