416 replies to this topic

[Z0MBIE Y0SHI]

I went with depends just because we know so little.
Some clans don't even give you the option and just shoot on site, if I remember right Clan Wolf was really the only one that allowed freebirths in after proving themselves as pilots. In which case if they do it that way, who do we fight to prove ourselves? AI? Devs?
We still know to little so I personally can't give a straight answer.

[Hunson Abadeer]

Aethon, on 03 July 2012 - 11:56 PM, said:

In all these years, I've never heard the term 'munchkin' until the last day or two. I've heard of people crying about the Clans before, but I still don't understand the point of trying so hard to offend other people who are here to enjoy the same game as you. The name-calling is pretty juvenile, and really isn't necessary.

Also, if you really can't stand the Clans, why are you spending this much time posting in the Clan forum?

Did you ever play the tabletop game? The phrase "munchkin" has been around forever to refer to powergamers. It also came to really refer to younger people that came to BattleTech through the various noncanonical video games, who were typically drawn to the Clans, largely ignored the character development aspect of the game, and only ever sought to have the most powerful everything to win.

Who is trying hard to offend someone? You are the only person I have seen get upset over being called a munchkin. Telling old nerds to drop everything they have known for a couple of decades just because you don't like it seems to miss the point entirely. Clanners were munchkins in the past, still are today, and will still be tomorrow.

And why shouldn't I care about the Clans and what is being posted over here? I care about this game, and the implementation of the Clans could totally mess it up. That is especially true should all of the Clanners get some of the stuff they've been speculating about. If you can come here to talk about what you want, why can't I post too?

[Aethon]

Hunson Abadeer, on 04 July 2012 - 12:12 AM, said:

Did you ever play the tabletop game? The phrase "munchkin" has been around forever to refer to powergamers. It also came to really refer to younger people that came to BattleTech through the various noncanonical video games, who were typically drawn to the Clans, largely ignored the character development aspect of the game, and only ever sought to have the most powerful everything to win.

Who is trying hard to offend someone? You are the only person I have seen get upset over being called a munchkin. Telling old nerds to drop everything they have known for a couple of decades just because you don't like it seems to miss the point entirely. Clanners were munchkins in the past, still are today, and will still be tomorrow.

And why shouldn't I care about the Clans and what is being posted over here? I care about this game, and the implementation of the Clans could totally mess it up. That is especially true should all of the Clanners get some of the stuff they've been speculating about. If you can come here to talk about what you want, why can't I post too?

Did I ever play tabletop? Yes. The phrase munchkin is indeed for powergamers; the fact that you are pretty much calling all Clan fans powergamers is inaccurate, to say the least. Do the Clans tend to attract people who only want the best tech? Of course; any such faction does. Do the Clans, and their REAL fans break everything about Battletech? No.

Am I offended? No; it's pretty hard to be offended by an ignorant, misguided comment. Am I getting tired of the heckling going on in the Clan forum? You bet...especially since these people have had almost nothing of value to add to any of the conversations here, and since the Clan fans almost never do this to the IS fans, unless it is done in a light-hearted, joking manner.

Telling you to 'drop everything you've known for the past two decades'? Really? Name-calling is all you've ever known for the past couple decades? Well...that explains a lot. However, you don't see me running around calling all the IS fans a bunch of 'cavemen' or 'cretins' just because I happen to like Clan society.

Also, I'm not saying no IS fans should post in the Clan forum; I'm just saying that there's no need for all the trolling, name-calling, posturing, and general harassment of people who are just here to enjoy the game, and talk to other people who are enthusiastic about it. I don't happen to like most of the IS factions, but you don't see me going into all the House forums and trashing them. Most IS players don't pull this crap, either.

In short, we're all here for MWO, and to share our love for Battletech/Mechwarrior with others here; name-calling and insults aren't helping anything.

[Feindfeuer]

Nope... as a freeborn i'd just do garrison duty or i'd be put into some backwater security force. Add to that that as a clan warrior i'll have no real personal possessions and i'll pass. I'd rather use my gigantic amount of c-bills to buy me a nice military title in Haus Steiner.

[Hagen von Tronje]

@Hunson
Never played clanside, never will.
Do not like what their means of honor is.
Beeing soldier for 12 Years some time ago (german air force anti-aircraft missiles) it doesn't feel right watching the comrades die and do nothing, only looking for personal glory.

Edited by Hagen von Tronje, 04 July 2012 - 01:31 AM.

[Aethon]

Feindfeuer, on 04 July 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

Nope... as a freeborn i'd just do garrison duty or i'd be put into some backwater security force. Add to that that as a clan warrior i'll have no real personal possessions and i'll pass. I'd rather use my gigantic amount of c-bills to buy me a nice military title in Haus Steiner.

That depends on the Clan, really; the Smoke Jaguars have never allowed freeborn personnel into their touman. Some Clans, on the other hand, have allowed freeborn Clansmen to attain significantly high ranks...even that of Khan. While there would still be a slight bias against them, even in the Hell's Horses, Diamond Sharks, or Star Adders, the ranks of such Clans are open to freeborn warriors that prove themselves.

[Grogdingo]

Most definitely i must have my Timber Wolf.

[Min0taur]

I voted yes, because I really want a Vulture and a Mad Cat...

Honestly, I would prefer staying an IS, but being able to purchase these 2 beasts, even if they cost more (to purchase and repair/upgrade), because they're hard to get, especially early in the Clan invasion...

They could be the Ferraris of your car collection, so to speak... Use them in battle, but it will cost you...

[Feindfeuer]

Aethon, on 04 July 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

That depends on the Clan, really; the Smoke Jaguars have never allowed freeborn personnel into their touman. Some Clans, on the other hand, have allowed freeborn Clansmen to attain significantly high ranks...even that of Khan. While there would still be a slight bias against them, even in the Hell's Horses, Diamond Sharks, or Star Adders, the ranks of such Clans are open to freeborn warriors that prove themselves.

That is true, but i still can't buy a nice rank with my money, so i'll still stick with the IS, specificaly with House Steiner.

[Aethon]

Feindfeuer, on 04 July 2012 - 02:10 AM, said:

That is true, but i still can't buy a nice rank with my money, so i'll still stick with the IS, specificaly with House Steiner.

Hey, gotta respect somebody sticking to their guns.

[OskaRus]

Depends on combat usefullnes and economc point of view and primarily on my corp doctrine.

[Chief 117]

Derek Icelord, on 17 June 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

I won't be joining the cansiter borns, but I'll be more than happy to kill them and take (and use) their stuff.

My idea exactly

[employee24601]

Feindfeuer, on 04 July 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

Nope... as a freeborn i'd just do garrison duty or i'd be put into some backwater security force. Add to that that as a clan warrior i'll have no real personal possessions and i'll pass. I'd rather use my gigantic amount of c-bills to buy me a nice military title in Haus Steiner.

My thoughts exactly.

I'll have the wait and see what the prospect of piloting an Omnimech does to me though.

Sarna.net said:

"The ability to quickly service, re-arm, or even modify the weapons loadout of a front-line unit allowed pilots back on the battlefield and kept the Clans moving at their amazing pace during their Invasion. While not able to replicate the advanced construction materials of the invaders, the Inner Sphere was capable of reverse engineering the OmniMech technology with the Draconis Combine introducing the first Inner Sphere OmniMech, the Raptor, in May 3052. Building on this first step, by 3058 the Combine had eight separate OmniMechs in production with licensed versions being built in the Lyran Alliance and Free Worlds League. By 3067 every Successor State had their own OmniMechs in production."

Might just have to drag a smashed Timber Wolf home instead..

Edited by employee24601, 04 July 2012 - 03:21 AM.

[Hunson Abadeer]

Aethon, on 04 July 2012 - 12:37 AM, said:

Did I ever play tabletop? Yes. The phrase munchkin is indeed for powergamers; the fact that you are pretty much calling all Clan fans powergamers is inaccurate, to say the least. Do the Clans tend to attract people who only want the best tech? Of course; any such faction does. Do the Clans, and their REAL fans break everything about Battletech? No.

Am I offended? No; it's pretty hard to be offended by an ignorant, misguided comment. Am I getting tired of the heckling going on in the Clan forum? You bet...especially since these people have had almost nothing of value to add to any of the conversations here, and since the Clan fans almost never do this to the IS fans, unless it is done in a light-hearted, joking manner.

Telling you to 'drop everything you've known for the past two decades'? Really? Name-calling is all you've ever known for the past couple decades? Well...that explains a lot. However, you don't see me running around calling all the IS fans a bunch of 'cavemen' or 'cretins' just because I happen to like Clan society.

Also, I'm not saying no IS fans should post in the Clan forum; I'm just saying that there's no need for all the trolling, name-calling, posturing, and general harassment of people who are just here to enjoy the game, and talk to other people who are enthusiastic about it. I don't happen to like most of the IS factions, but you don't see me going into all the House forums and trashing them. Most IS players don't pull this crap, either.

In short, we're all here for MWO, and to share our love for Battletech/Mechwarrior with others here; name-calling and insults aren't helping anything.

First, if you played the tabletop game back when the Clans were first introduced, you should know exactly why a lot of older players consider them to be entirely munchkin in nature. They have better speed, armor, range, and damage. The vast majority of Clanners also seem to always have a Bloodname and very little in the way of character development. The Adder has the same BV1 as an AS7-D, and its BV2 is actually higher. The Clans are like some mythical beast from AD&D that munchkins decided to actually use.

Second, you really need to work on your sense of humor. Some random poster made a joke, and you keep leveling passive aggressive insults just because I happened to find the joke somewhat funny. Also, you Clanner sort don't call us "cavemen" or "cretins." You just call us "stravag," "freebirth," and "surat." The implications of those insults are not exactly friendly or minor when you get down to it, and it is no different for Inner Sphere players to refer to you as test-tube babies, &c.

Finally, I have posted substantive posts in numerous threads. Every now and then I make a silly comment or post a silly picture. This forum is not for Clanners to be Clanners. It is a forum for the discussion of the Clans as was said when it was created. People keep discussing how they want to see the Clans implemented, and that affects everyone not simply the Clanners. If you somehow felt that the Houses were overpowered, then you would be free to go discuss it. Of course, that is not the case, however, and you darn well know it.

[Aethon]

Hunson Abadeer, on 04 July 2012 - 07:50 AM, said:

First, if you played the tabletop game back when the Clans were first introduced, you should know exactly why a lot of older players consider them to be entirely munchkin in nature. They have better speed, armor, range, and damage. The vast majority of Clanners also seem to always have a Bloodname and very little in the way of character development. The Adder has the same BV1 as an AS7-D, and its BV2 is actually higher. The Clans are like some mythical beast from AD&D that munchkins decided to actually use.

Second, you really need to work on your sense of humor. Some random poster made a joke, and you keep leveling passive aggressive insults just because I happened to find the joke somewhat funny. Also, you Clanner sort don't call us "cavemen" or "cretins." You just call us "stravag," "freebirth," and "surat." The implications of those insults are not exactly friendly or minor when you get down to it, and it is no different for Inner Sphere players to refer to you as test-tube babies, &c.

Finally, I have posted substantive posts in numerous threads. Every now and then I make a silly comment or post a silly picture. This forum is not for Clanners to be Clanners. It is a forum for the discussion of the Clans as was said when it was created. People keep discussing how they want to see the Clans implemented, and that affects everyone not simply the Clanners. If you somehow felt that the Houses were overpowered, then you would be free to go discuss it. Of course, that is not the case, however, and you darn well know it.

*sigh* This is getting old. I didn't play tabletop when the Clans were introduced; I play it now, and often. I also play the IS side almost as often, so I know what it's like to face off against Clan mechs using inferior technology. I still don't understand why they're 'munchkin' in nature, though; as you say yourself, the Adder (a Clan light mech) has the same BV as an Atlas, which underlines the way that BV balances out the Clan technological advantage. There are ways to cheese it up, of course, but that goes for the IS side as well. If terrain is properly used, I'd rather have 5 AS7-D's than 5 Adder Primes any day of the week, and for about 1/4 the cost. Then, of course, there's the fact that you're comparing a new Clan mech with an old version of the Atlas, but I'm not even opening that can of worms.

As for going over to the IS forums to help discuss things that are overpowered...NOTHING is overpowered yet. The game hasn't been released, and the Clan tech advantage (if there is going to be one, which is likely) has not been specified at all. The only reason the 'OP' label has already been affixed to the Clans is the simple fact that people who have not played the game are making wild assumptions.

I need to work on my sense of humor...ok. I find humor in many things others to not; and yet, I found no humor, or good intentions in the post I first quoted. No smilies, no 'j/k', nothing. Instead of working on my humor, perhaps you should consider the fact that people can't read minds over the internet; I can't hear your thoughts when you're typing. So, if you truly did intend it with humor, some notation to that effect would have been helpful, since it wasn't obvious by context. If you really did intend that as sarcasm or something, I apologize for taking your words at face value; I still can't see any indication of satire, sarcasm, or other humor in it or the post it quoted, though.

You also missed the fact that I said that Clan fans, when using Clan epithets, typically smile, wink, 'j/k', etc. when using these terms to describe others. Thus, as I said, 'in a joking manner'. And that is what makes all the difference. I don't care if someone insults me jokingly; that's friendly banter, and doesn't hurt anything. I'm not saying none of the Clan fans here ever act like douchebags sometimes, but I also mentioned that the vast majority of IS fans aren't here to stir up crap. It's the whole 'bad apple' thing, but I've been over that already, too.

Last but not least, you also kind of missed the bit where I said that I wasn't complaining about IS fans posting in the Clan forum; I understand the intent of this forum, and it obviously needs IS player input as well. Once again, my whole point is that the name-calling, trolling, and harassment, from either side of the fence, aren't helping anyone.

Look, I'm tired of these games. If you want to get that last word in, go ahead. I'm beyond caring, and I value my free time too much to allow some random person on the internet to keep wasting it like this.

[Midian]

I've recently joined the Windbourne Highlanders and I'm looking forward to fighting with them to kick some clanner butt when they arrive.

[Hunson Abadeer]

Aethon, on 04 July 2012 - 09:28 AM, said:

*sigh*

First, that is just intellectually dishonest. The battle value is calculated the same way for both sides. The Clantech has much higher values for the weight because it is OVERPOWERED. The Adder Prime has a BV of 1,560/2,083. The AS7-K is 1,649/2,175. That supports my point, not yours. The more expensive Atlas that will be harder to get has only a slightly higher BV than a 35-ton Clan 'Mech.

Second, by wild assumptions, I am assuming you mean the entire BattleTech universe. Thus far MWO appears to want to stick to the lore, so it makes more sense to utilize the Clans as they were designed rather than turning them into Inner Sphere + odd words. The concern of many is that Clanners are wanting the benefits of their munch without any of the checks that have existed since 1990. I also utterly disagree with some Clanners intending to force their stuff into the game early using the merc mechanic, affecting how the Inner Sphere plays out, and then switching sides to invade.

Third, I do not see why I need to indicate sarcasm in response to an obviously sarcastic post. If the other poster truly thinks you are a munchkin because of feeling insufficiently endowed, then that is his business. I do not see how that post could be taken seriously.

Finally, I have seen a lot of Clanners on here issuing challenges and insults, but I cannot recall a single one adding some qualifier to it. I take it as banter regardless, but it seems pointless to issue insults and then get upset over insults regardless of any added qualifiers.

We can agree to disagree, but it is pointless to passive-aggressively declare "victory" in a discussion by calling it a waste of time and "walking away." If the points didn't matter to you, you wouldn't have engaged to begin with (the only one I've seen do so).

Have a good Fourth.

[shadowwolf jerricho]

Started as a clanner. Clan Coyote will always be near and dear to my heart but I am now and will always be a Kell Hound.

[Doctah Feelgood]

IS Merc till the day I die!

That doesn't mean I won't pilot a nice omnimech every once in a while or rip the inniards out of a downed one...

[Ardan Blade]

I may change, but only if it doesn't affect my original character. I'd like to see the ability to fight the conflict from more than one perspective. Otherwise, no go.