1978 replies to this topic

[Stormwolf]

I'll give my honest opion at about the 60+ pages we are into this. I have my doubts if this actually gets read by the devs, but here goes:

First of, I like that you guys kept the OmniMech restrictions on armor and "hardwired" components, you are the first game to do this. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, the mechlab implementation of MWO's "BattleMechs" has made omnitech itself obsolete.

I think that the game would have truely benefitted from a more elaborate system for customization by adding things like a crew of technicians and a player owned facility that could be upgraded. Gameplay would be enhanced even more so if elements like parts and ammo shortages were introduced along with a repair and rearm system. But it's far too late for such a thing at this point, now everybody can simply copy paste the best available build. It doesn't really create the "diversity" many people claim the game has.

I understand why you nerfed Clan tech, the abuse would have been too great. Though I greatly lament that you didn't hardwire zell and bidding for Clan players, even a game as simple as MW2 had a point system for honor (and loss of honor). We could do so much more with today's technology. There's no identity for the Clans outside of their technology, they have effectively become a hardware store again like in the MW4 days.

Come to think of it, none of the factions in the game have any sort of identity to them, a shame really when you consider that most of them have fleshed out histories and cultures.

But anyway, back to the Clans, how would you even handle the invasion with them? Even with the proposed CW they wouldn't have any interesting story attached to them. It would still be same eternal grind only now with a different tech base involved.


In short you are creating nice looking models for mechs, but you aren't doing anything interesting with this game. People will get excited about Clan tech and mechs, but this excitement will fade away eventually.

Edited by Stormwolf, 19 December 2013 - 11:06 AM.

[Nehkrosis]

are they not going to be simply DOA with their low speed and armor?
im worried about this quite abit actually.

[Stormwolf]

Nehkrosis, on 19 December 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

are they not going to be simply DOA with their low speed and armor?
im worried about this quite abit actually.

Don't worry the Fire Moth, Ice Ferret and Viper are among the fastest mechs, oh wait....

Edited by Stormwolf, 19 December 2013 - 11:15 AM.

[Syvarris]

TOGSolid, on 14 December 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

So lemme get this straight, for a couple years it was a hard rule that tonnage would never be tampered with since it would break stock mechs and your brilliant idea is to up the LRM20's tonnage.Just exactly how much Mercury is in Canada's water?

They never stated that was exactly what they were going to do. They said it was a possibility. So perhaps they will simply add heat or something. Jeez, it's like everyone here was trained at FOX News, taking bits and pieces and disregarding everything else to give them an opportunity to be angry and act like petulant children.

[BigMooingCow]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 19 December 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

I see a lot of proposals for different solutions to the implementation of the clans.

Some go all out and say that the clans should be nerfed to IS status. Yes, that would be "fair" for everyone. That, however, would put the clans at a massive disadvantage as they invade. They would, ultimately, hit a brick wall the second they invade the Inner Sphere. Why? It's simple, they would be no different than a faction but with far less territory to support their operations and far less room to manouver.

That would be true, if we were going to get a Clan invasion. What we ARE going to get is a few clan mechs dropped into our team deathmatch. There's no territory, no mech factories, no jump ships, and no supply lines. Just a bunch of mechs beating up on each other, endlessly, for no strategic aim.

[Stormwolf]

BigMooingCow, on 19 December 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

There's no territory, no mech factories, no jump ships, and no supply lines. Just a bunch of mechs beating up on each other, endlessly, for no strategic aim.

Yeah, those two years of development have truely paid off.

[Taemien]

GalaxyBluestar, on 18 December 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

plenty of people are skilled enough to beat others when they're out numbered and infact the main suggestion is to force that condition on players right from the begining and it could escalate in the extreme.

16 vs 8 could easily become 10vs4 and then 5vs 1 during the course of a battle, anybody can tell you how this game is played.

deathblobing, focus fire, ganging up win. stick together don't be a loner. we're suggesting clanners should be droped as loners, that's how the game has always worked! i bet many players would migrate from clanners to IS under those conditions because they'd get sick of focus fire and having nobody else to hide behind when the **** starts to fly, that's what many pilots of "skill" do now.

BTW people are surprised about skirmish having hiding trolls in it? the community of players experienced with this game told'em this is what would happen and it happens.

we're telling you now when you're outnumbered the domino effect is huge and wrecks the best pilots and mechs. we know being out numbered and ganged up on is greater than tech only the best pilots-teams overcome this, it's that rare and elo - weight management makes the chances even slimmer if you're down 2+guys. normal clan tech is perfect to even out the odds if a 10vs12 or 8vs16 were in place.

If only forcing the best of the best (aka premades) into clan tech is how it goes, then why even bother having the clans when only 5% of players will even attempt them.

This is all assuming clan tech will be on one team and IS on the other. I have seen no indication that this will be true. They seem just like yet another set of mechs available to everyone. At least until CW hits. But if they're are so few clans, then they won't be a viable faction in CW.

I'm big on TT and the Lore. But I'm willing to put those wants, desires, and feelings aside for a balanced game. I liked how MWLL did Clan and IS. They felt different and played a little differently. But they were balanced. A thanatos could go Toe to Toe with a madcat and player skill, not equipment decided the outcome.

But people here want the tech to decide the outcome. "Clan should be Clan" is a cry from those who feel insignificant to their peers, those who feel they need a crutch.

I've seen what outnumbered odds did to clanners in previous systems. 2 Madcats, a Thor, and a Vulture, get torn to hell and back by 3 atlases, 4 catapults, and a thanatos. Superior tech even with good player skill doesn't help. So these arguments about making clan OP and just giving them less numbers is ridiculous. Only premade clanners vs pugs would have a chance in winning. And when it comes down to premade 12 v what? 10 or 8? They're going to be at a severe disadvantage when they go up against IS assaults with little scouters go back capping.

And asymmetrical balance with numbers of players.. you expect that not to be a balancing nightmare?

[Gyrok]

Nehkrosis, on 19 December 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

are they not going to be simply DOA with their low speed and armor?
im worried about this quite abit actually.

Which mechs is slow? The 35 tonner with 2 clan ER PPCs? The one that goes 106 MPH after speed tweak an is designed as a medium hunter? Cause if it's that one...not too worried.

Is it the 75 ton Timberwolf that goes 95 MPH after speed tweak with full armor and enough clan weaponry to drop multiple assault mechs? Not worried there either.

What about the Nova with 12 clan ER MLs as a standard loadout? Not to worried about speed there either...

So, which one did you think was going to be DOA because of speed exactly?

[Syvarris]

Battlestar3k, on 19 December 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

@Galaxy Bluestar: Sorry U MUST BE a bloody noob: of if someone buys the clanmechs he pays 2 win, whine whine... damn kids, u STILL NEED to bring them to master or at least elite to make em capable against mastered IS.

Second goes to all kids out there: MECHWARRIOR was never a CASUAL game, the prices are OK as people that PGI call the so called "COREPLAYERS" have BT/CT/MT as a hobby! WE WANT OP CLANS, WE PLAYED AND FOUGHT CLANMECHS FOR ALL OUR LIFE, THERE's NEVER BEEN A NERF AND BT WAS STILL FINE! IF THE CASUAL GAMERS IN HERE CRY, GIVE THEM A LINK TO PLAY CASUAL **** LIKE TRANSFORMERS OR WHATEVER!

BATTLETECH IS A WHOLE UNIVERSE WITH A HISTORY FAR BEYOND UR KNOWLEDGE IT SEEMS, AND U JUST COME AND TRY TO DESTROY THIS WHOLE GALAXY, THE WHOLE COMMUNITY, U ARE DESTROYING OUR PASSION FOR MW, WE -"THE COREPLAYERS"- WANT CLAN AS IT IS! U ALREADY MESSED UP IS-TECH as Omnimechs and now u try to TURN AROUND THE WHOLE BT HISTORY AND NERF CLAN TO STAY COMPETITIVE AND TO HOLD CASUAL GAMERS OR GET MORE?

Congratulations, lets see how ur CASUALGAMERS will support u till 2018/'20 when u go on like this and loose the CORE that is really waiting for CW, have fun with a casual, not BT relevant playerbase, maybe the'll eat this {Scrap} to the end, but don't count on that... hopefully there will be a chance for a new REAL Mechwarrior game after 2018/'20 or we hopefully can achive something at microsoft earlier to stop u from destroying our great memories and a great TRADE!!! BT will fight U and WON'T give up! Thats Clanhonor!

period

Do not presume to speak for an entire community unless you can actually prove your reputation and status as someone qualified to do so. Also, given that the original developers and creators of BT and the people that originally worked on Clan Tech have stated how horribly stupid and overpowered it is, your argument about loving the "Old Clans" and TT is kinda funny, given that the devs of your beloved game are actually against you in this regard. Again, something that should not have to be stated anymore but is apparently needed. BT and TT ARE NOT MWO. TT was a strategy game with a top down view, MWO is an FPS in which every mech is controlled by a player who has no more mechs for that match if it is lost. You cannot hold an FPS to the same standards as TT. It's apples and oranges. Also, given your horrible grammar and using "u" and "ur", I can assume that you are not intelligent enough to be one of the creators of BT, so you stating that you can't play MWO and BT casually, or that they aren't for a casual audience, is completely pointless. It's toxic, I hate to see this game's community fast-becoming very League of Legends-like. Toxic players who do nothing but complain instead of offering legitimate feedback.


Jun, I like your post, and I wish that PGI would read and implement more feedback from people such as yourself, who appear to know what they're talking about. Although to be honest, if given the choice between wading through a river of fecal matter and radioactive waste to find one gold nugget; and trying something and having the chance to fail, I'm probably going to pick the latter. The implementation of this stuff is months down the road, and I'm hoping they come up with some better ideas and take some feedback.

[HiredGun]

Praetor Shepard, on 15 December 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

• Warhawk (Masakari) - Prime plus seven Alt. Configs

I just laughed when I looked at the prime version of the Warhawk. With the current implemantation of ghost heat, how the hell can you put 4 ERPPCs on any mech no matter how many DHSs you have.

Edited by HiredGun, 19 December 2013 - 12:04 PM.

[Grey Knight]

Even this comment wont be read by the devs most probably...these are my 50 cents i allready mentioned in an german forum months ago.

1st of all, you created awesome looking mechs, its awesome to maneuver them, shooting at each other.... GREAT JOB, thx for that!

But you dont know nothing about BATTLE TECH!!!! its a BATTLE of TECHnologie.....so you must be some greedy bunch of ..... if you think you can sell that concept you have to an BT-Fan.

Any real BT fan would spend as much money as you need if you fullfill their dreams....the dream of fighting in an BT Universe!



The game as it is, should be a kind of Solaris Mode where everyone can create his Mech as long as he earns the c-Bills!

But you need to offer a kind of Lore mode(League)....every IS-Mech should be similiar (several variants with very few possibilitys to mdifiy by yourself, so the corerole of the mech stays same) to the Techreadouts, only available to certain factions as long as they hold several construction plants or on the blackmarket for much more c-bills.

The point why there are so many diffrent IS-mechtypes are is, that each Mech fullfills a certain role on the battlefield (Lrm support, Scout etc).
So in the lore mode there should be restrictions modifying your mech, depending on rank available facilities etc
And if you wanna fight for a certain Faction you stay with it, otherwise you have to create another Mechwarrior and start all over with this faction (there are diffrent chars in other games too...so why not?)

And Solaris mode mechs are only available on solaris so you can use the game as it is right now for this mode and start creating a Battle Tech game for real fans.

Focus on IS first, let us fight each other in an Universe and no one would be mad waiting for the clans!!!
You have to listen to your Community, otherwise you will end up with guys who only want to see a torso explode once in a while!



Sry for my English but i think you get the point

Edited by Grey Knight, 19 December 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[Stormwolf]

HiredGun, on 19 December 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

I just laughed when I looked at the prime version of the Warhawk. With the current implemantation of ghost heat, how the hell can you put 4 ERPPCs on any mech no matter how many DHSs you have.

You can't even make proper use of it in the TT, MWO's heat system will make this mech useless.

[Nehkrosis]

I dont think it really matters if a 35 tonner is designed for medium mech hunting, itll be ganked by those same mediums running the same speed as it, and hitting harder, and taking more damage.

Also, what of the summoner? its just a worse Thunderbolt with its low armour.

Were going to suffer for this, mark my words.

[Taemien]

Grey Knight, on 19 December 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

But you dont know nothing about BATTLE TECH!!!! its a BATTLE of TECHnologie.....so you must be some greedy bunch of ..... if you think you can sell that concept you have to an BT-Fan.

BattleTech =/= MechWarrior

It never has been and probably never will. When making a mechwarrior game many developers (Activision, Microprose, Microsoft, and Wandering Samurai) find out that you can sort of make a decent game following the lore as a guideline, and at some point... you've got to diverge.

So far, MWO has diverged the least from the lore. Need examples?

MW2: Everything was an omnimech. ECM, BAP, TAG either didn't function or weren't present. ACs dumped ammo like machine guns (3 tons of AC20 ammo were gone in 2-3 seconds). JJs worked like they do in Armored Core, while interesting, definitely didn't make sense to take a 51KPH atlas to 90+

MW3: Same as MW2, ACs were a bit closer to Lore. Damage values were vastly altered. Internal structure didn't exist as a combat value outside weight (lost all armor in CT, you died). Pirates Moon allowed TAG to do 'something' wasn't very useful still. Artemis did nothing. Streaks were heavier SRMs (both locked on, and usually didn't miss). Every mech had coolant.

MW4: If you've played this one.. do I need to elaborate?

MWLL: All above things were fixed to be closer to lore. Default armor and damage values were massively altered for balance purposes. PPCs for example did... I think 475 damage direct, 475 emp splash or something like that.

There's more for each game that I'm just not going to list, because you get the idea. Things in MWO have to work a little differently than they do in lore. And so far, they've done a better job than previous titles... though MWLL could arguably be considered better balanced and closer to lore. But.. you don't have a mechlab either. So its green apples to red apples rather than to oranges.

But to reiterate the point. This is MechWarrior Online, and not BattleTech Online. You're most true to lore BattleTech online game is going to be MegaMek. While MechWarrior derives its lore from the BattleTech franchise, it has never been and never will be true to BattleTech.

Consider MechWarrior to BattleTech like the D&D Arcade game and Neverwinter are to Dungeons and Dragons.

[Lucian Nostra]

Gyrok, on 19 December 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

Which mechs is slow? The 35 tonner with 2 clan ER PPCs? The one that goes 106 MPH after speed tweak an is designed as a medium hunter? Cause if it's that one...not too worried.

Is it the 75 ton Timberwolf that goes 95 MPH after speed tweak with full armor and enough clan weaponry to drop multiple assault mechs? Not worried there either.

What about the Nova with 12 clan ER MLs as a standard loadout? Not to worried about speed there either...

So, which one did you think was going to be DOA because of speed exactly?

Oh you mean the Kit Fox with it's 97 kph and less armor than a locust? I mean you know how durable those Locusts are.

How about Summoners with 54 CT armor? Or Mad Dogs when they come out. everyone clammors for 60 tonners with 46 CT armor. And the awesome 34 CT armor 65 ton Hellbringer

He did say speed AND armor

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 19 December 2013 - 01:25 PM.

[Gulinborsti]

StandingCow, on 14 December 2013 - 02:07 PM, said:

Seems to me like he totally missed the point of why people are angry. We don't care that the clans are here... we care about the grab deal so close to the last pack of mechs when basic things that have been promised as "right around the corner" multiple times STILL aren't out.

How about you wait to introduce this until UI 2.0 comes out and is good? Or how about until you have all your CW {Scrap} working and ready to go or all the details panned out?

You fix the stuff from this image, and I will MAYBE start to trust you all again:
Due to spam abuse. This image has been removed. Please provide feedback in written form.

You guys continue to make me ashamed of my Legendary and overlord tags... honestly you do.

Until all of the above goals are not achieved there are plenty of other games to keep me occupied.
Clan Tech will not get me back into the game before we get more game.

[Stormwolf]

Lucian Nostra, on 19 December 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

And the awesome 34 CT armor 65 ton Hellbringer

I think that armor is going to be one of the lesser concerns when it comes to the Hellbringer.

[Lysander Voidrunner]

Jacmac, on 19 December 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

Let me get this straight, you think there will be a clan invasion in MWO? When? 2020?

Let me get this straight. You have no faith in the game, you seemingly have no interest in the game's success by the lack of any constructive input for the game and you actively discourage others. And at this point your input was to criticize my proposal? You really need a hobby - I heard knitting is fun, you should pick up on it.

Some smart person said this once - if you have nothing worthwhile to say then you should stay silent. I heartily suggest you heed this advice because right now, I look at you and I see this.

[Thariel]

making is mechs omnis and clan mechs not is an absolute no go.

make it a numbers drop... 16 is vs 10 clans but keep the tech to the lore (no weapon alterations), except the already available engine, structure, heatsnks, armor changes.

told you way before , playing non stock will ruin the game.. now you got it.

to have clan tech in line with the current IS, we need to be able to change everything without any hardpoint restrictions at all (e.g. adding ecm /jj/ multiple-ams to any clan mech).

if you mess with hardcore bt-tt players b crapping the clans, you will lose your economic playerbase. It is the TT-players of old like me, that are now able to spend hundreds of bucks for this game, not some kids who whine-a-lot and play for free. Think about this.

you don't want games with uneven numbers... to satisfy the no-pay-kids, but your concern should be the hardcore bt fans.

Edited by Thariel, 19 December 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[Chip Danger]

Lysander Voidrunner, on 19 December 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

Let me get this straight. You have no faith in the game, you seemingly have no interest in the game's success by the lack of any constructive input for the game and you actively discourage others. And at this point your input was to criticize my proposal? You really need a hobby - I heard knitting is fun, you should pick up on it.

Some smart person said this once - if you have nothing worthwhile to say then you should stay silent. I heartily suggest you heed this advice because right now, I look at you and I see this.

Proud to be ^ that guy