1978 replies to this topic

[Russhuster]

with 4 mechs under ist hardly possible to play a conquest game maybe one can play assault but with little chance of victory.
like i postet many times bevore 10 versus 12 is a playable advantage situation for IS

i go with your line there that speed in this game is of the essnce as even heaviest mech armor can easyly be destroyed by some MG fire as if its made of butter. And sometimes i have the feeling that light mech are quite overpowered, jes and there every now an then comes the with that there should be an ioption to stomp on a light one. - just joking
therefore i can not logically follow the pulling the break on clan light Mechs
i ve seen raven tearing a AK 20 with them, running 150 mph or faster jenners and fleas even faster
so why should a light clan mech be that a slow snail? remeber? clans have MASC what should boost a uller up to 200+ even just for a short period.

with regards

R

[Drunk Canuck]

Bad Alchemy, on 25 December 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Clan weapon implementations seem okay, but the chassis are a joke. You've taken the only truly customizable mechs in the universe and made them less customizable than IS which aren't?

To the point, IS mechs can have HS where they want, whatever engine size within a range and whatever structure.
Clan can swap a ballistic hardpoint in a missile hard point... so what? Thats the same as buying different IS variants... except the IS mechs have more options.

Clan mechs should of been chassis you earn with faction rep by fighting for a house which would of been more in keeping with the lore. Being able to buy them outright will make them common as muck and so will all variants from day one of their implementation.

Pretty much. When they see that the majority of players are running Clan Mech's, they will have no choice but to adjust them so they can be modified in whatever way possible. Inner Sphere tech should just be cheap and designed as introductory tier chassis while Clans be the most expensive and most powerful technology. Doing so gives players a reason to use IS tech, especially for new players and maybe adjusting some of the values and making IS weapons at least more competitive with default Clan values would make them more viable.

Edited by Drunk Canuck, 25 December 2013 - 03:42 PM.

[Taemien]

Bad Alchemy, on 25 December 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Clan weapon implementations seem okay, but the chassis are a joke. You've taken the only truly customizable mechs in the universe and made them less customizable than IS which aren't?

To the point, IS mechs can have HS where they want, whatever engine size within a range and whatever structure.
Clan can swap a ballistic hardpoint in a missile hard point... so what? Thats the same as buying different IS variants... except the IS mechs have more options.

Clan mechs should of been chassis you earn with faction rep by fighting for a house which would of been more in keeping with the lore. Being able to buy them outright will make them common as muck and so will all variants from day one of their implementation.

Read TechManual, not a wiki. To be as customizable as BattleMechs, Omnimechs have to be converted to BattleMechs. So no.. they aren't the most customizable things in the universe.

[Syncline]

I really want the game to succeed, I really do. I bought Overlord + Saber hoping that the money would help fuel fixes which have kept me from playing more.

Nope. Didn't happen.

I was excited to read your game balance strategy regarding the Clans, but it makes no sense. How about creating a "battle value" and balancing teams with Clan tech that way, instead of seemingly arbitrary and inconsistent methods eg. Increase the mass of SSRM-20 but increase beam duration of ERLL - really?

Now you want to sell me OP tech at ludicrous prices?

Nope. Not gonna happen.

I'm just sayin, PGI: you make this game to please your customers, yet you make decisions that completely honk off your customers.

Just sayin.

Edited by Syncline, 25 December 2013 - 05:50 PM.

[Kaldrenborn]

Just some thoughts here.

Smart Bomb, on 14 December 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Again with the heat scale {Scrap}. Perhaps someone could load the test server with a high dissipation/low cap system, so we can put ghost heat to rest.

I totally agree with this. Stop the ghost heat stuff. There is no mention of it in game and no UI for it, so it is a ***** to manage sometimes. The Masakari has 4 ER PPCs, but if you shoot more than two, you come damn near close to overheating. Why not half the heat cap, and double the disapation rate like stated above?

As for autocannons, why not have them chainfire a stream of bullet like in mechwarrior 3? That will remove that pin-pointed damage for metabuilds (PPC/AC5 sniping) and require more skill for long range combat.

As for the hardpoints, how about you just create a new type of hardpoint, and call it an omni hardpoint. Mechwarrior 4 had them, and you could place any type of weapon in them, with the exceptions to the CT, etc.. the "base". I like what was planned there. A lot of clan mechs, like the Puma, have weapons in the CT that cannot be removed. The Puma's is the flamer. (Puma, Nova, whatever. Suck it.)

And don't hate on the Puma for only going 90kph. It has 2 ER PPCs, which hit for 30 damage in total. That's a big hit for such a small mech.

Clan mechs are not a balance to IS mechs. They are superior. Try using battle value or doubling the weight value of clan mechs in matches. If you have 300 tons of clan makes, make it work 600 tons balance wise for matchmaking.

Thanks again for making this game, some of us appreciate it because we have been waiting for nearly 10 years for a new BattleTech game to be created. You'll get it right, just don't blatantly try to **** people off and break stock builds by dicking around with weapon weights and sizes. That is dumb. Don't be dumb. Okay, you can be dumb, but don't be stupid.

Edited by DustyHardtail, 25 December 2013 - 05:47 PM.

[Aeroc]

Please do not bring in Clan until the game play is updated. For the clans to invade I would first implement faction warfare including zones.. then introduce the Clan's as an invasion.. followed by houses uniting.. Clan tech should be uber.. don't try to balance it..
Learn from other MMO's.. everyone can't be a Jedi (SWG), warlocks are overpowered (WoW).. sandbox seems to be a good thing.. (Eve).. just learn from it.. Pushing stuff out at a ridiculous price point might get $$ up front, but the long run.. .. I agree with some of the comments, you put in some heroic mechs that are suppose to have an axe.. melee would be sweet.. !!! I ramble.. BUT clan tech should be the awesome, put 6 clan mechs to 12 omni mechs... or 4 on 12... sure people will go for Clan stuff it is more powerful, learn how to keep the inner sphere interesting.

[Gamgan]

So many good ideas and comments, but they are really lost in the form of ranting and negative criticism.

We spend money on the game because we wanted to, we want to see it succeed. Its our contribution to keeping the company alive and working on the game we want. They are working on it, and they are improving. Lots to go , but there going there.

I like the ideas they have about clan tech. I would prefer my inner sphere team of 12 vrs 5 overpowered Clan mechs but thats not the direction they are going.

Seriously, I hope these guys have a really thick skin because it seems like most of the posters are just interested in spiting poison then providing useful ideas.

I agree there was a couple of things I would like to have seen done differently but this post is about Clan tech and how they are going to bring it in. I like your omni mech idea, but not so sure about the slower Streak 6, maybe just a really long reload time?

[colsan]

So... why bother?

I mean, seriously, why even bother? If they're not -

You know what? Good question, why am I bothering? Nothing ever gets fixed (lagshield, hacks, crashing), the entire world tells you guys that the changes you are making are making the game worse and you don't listen, if you don't like the feedback on the forum you delete it and start over....

It stinks. Is that plain enough for you? It stinks. Just like your ridiculous ECM implementation, just like ghost heat, just like weapon damage/range/usability tweaking, just like.... well, all the changes you made that seem to have no motivation other than to cater to your preferred style of play. It stinks.

Clan tech is supposed to be better; if it isn't, why would be bother trying to get it? If it is, find some other balancing mechanic; BV, 8v10 clan vs IS, full clan are computer only in PvE and you have to beat them and try to salvage their stuff so it's uber rare, etc.

As usual, you had 3 good options.... and picked the fourth.

[BluefireMW]

Balancing alternative idea

To prevent that you start to change weapon tonnage and break up clan designs
I have a setting for balancing.
How about give a clan mech a worth tonnage disadvantage.
For example.
[1.5]
If some is driving a dire wolf of 100 t its worth 150 in this case.
On Maximum tonnage from about [720] it leads to
smaller mechs or less mechs if there is no tonnage left.

The good thing. It can be mixed.

Through that value you have the abilty to adjust if necessary.

Finally i guess you get at least even matches.
I guess more balanced as at present.

No one driving clan mechs expects there should all be equal.
A clan Pilot knows that the enemy has most time more units excluding fighting clan vs. clan.

[Taemien]

BluefireMW, on 25 December 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

Balancing alternative idea

To prevent that you start to change weapon tonnage and break up clan designs
I have a setting for balancing.
How about give a clan mech a worth tonnage disadvantage.
For example.
[1.5]
If some is driving a dire wolf of 100 t its worth 150 in this case.
On Maximum tonnage from about [720] it leads to
smaller mechs or less mechs if there is no tonnage left.

The good thing. It can be mixed.

Through that value you have the abilty to adjust if necessary.

Finally i guess you get at least even matches.
I guess more balanced as at present.

No one driving clan mechs expects there should all be equal.
A clan Pilot knows that the enemy has most time more units excluding fighting clan vs. clan.

Throws off the metrics for tonnage balancing.

The proposed tonnage matching has a MINIMUM tonnage associated with it. Ullers would count as 45 tonners under your system and they could be used to game the system to get all lights to run around a Conquest map unmatched.

[Shrike ski]

well first off some wildly popular games force you into certain play styles (think races in starcraft) in some other games that are fantasy based if you play a wizard like a warrior you are not going to do so well so that kinda pigenholes you into certain play styles as well, so we can see that the argument about "forcing a playstyle" is patently false, if people want the fancy toys they need to play by the rules set. About Zelbruigen the clans (invading clans that is not the homeworld clans) didn't routinely start to violate their own code of conduct until the late 3050s, around 3058 that is, that is set 8 years from the current timeline, even then it was only with enemies they considered dishonorable such as mercenaries, periphery states, and pirates, against the IS they still followed zelbruigen until it was violated by the other party (with some exceptions, mostly cropping up in 3062). yes some people just view this game as their latest "shooter" and you seem to be basing your decisions on that particular base of people, but I caution you there is a reason you chose to make this game MECHWARRIOR set in the BATTLETECH universe (and dealing with all the legal headaches that brings), its because of the VERY loyal FAN base the franchise has, these are the people you need to make sure you please, otherwise you would have just made a mecha based shooter game under your own tile. if you fix physical attacks (pulse lasers too) and enforce zelbruigen with rewards and loss of income as punishment you will have no balance issues that are major enough to warrant changing cannon. and a side note make LRMs less accurate, get rid of the incoming missle warning (you don't get warnings for other targeting locks) also for high heat scale crosshair fadeout, slow base movement and sluggish response would be a good cannon addition (ie heat penalties that everyone gets to ignore as things stand now)..... Thank you for your efforts (BTW I have dumped over 400$ in this game in the last 6 months if you screw the pooch with the clans I will take my money else ware) another side note fixed engine sizes, armour, and crit slots, very good there might be hope for you yet

Edited by Shrike ski, 25 December 2013 - 10:25 PM.

[Goose of Prey]

Some honest if slightly loaded questions; and sorry if posted already but I’m not reading the whole thread.

Do the dev’s plan on increasing salvage for killing clan mechs? It would only stand to reason (if you’re charging more in c-bills, and real money) thatwe would be rewarded for winning against a superior foe.

How did you have FAQ with-in seconds of the clan announcement? Who was asking those questions?

6 months to plan, code, test, public test, bug fix, and release all the weapon stats and internals of the clan mechs. Really?

Does PGI have any of the chassis coded yet? If not, how far along in development are they? When can we see them? (Try not to use the word “soon”)

Whose idea was it to make a clan teaser video that doesn’t have clan mechs in it? How do I apply for that job?

I have a hard time believing that this company, with its history of broken deadlines, can pull this off. Of course money is on the line so maybe PGI ismore motivated.

I would like to buy, but the company needs to have a finished product before I get out my wallet. (again)!

Mod or dev replies only. Alabaster Paladins please snark elsewhere

[Wolf Clearwater]

Bad Alchemy, on 25 December 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Clan mechs should of been chassis you earn with faction rep by fighting for a house which would of been more in keeping with the lore. Being able to buy them outright will make them common as muck and so will all variants from day one of their implementation.

Lovely idea, but that would require CW, and some sort of implementation of factions in the game - which has been continually pushed back.

[J0anna]

Bad Alchemy, on 25 December 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

Clan weapon implementations seem okay,

I would ask the question why we have chosen 3050 as the end state for weapons. We're "balancing" clan weapons against state of the art Inner Sphere weapons of 3050.

What will happen as later weapons are introduced which are when Inner Sphere weapons actually began to be superior to clan weapons - will PGI have any choice but to continue to "balance" them against 3050 weapons? By dumbing down clan weapons, PGI is committing themselves to having to "balance" all weapons down to 3050 standards or (at a later time) having to upgrade ALL clan weapons back to their original standards.....

[William Knight]

Moenrg, on 26 December 2013 - 06:04 AM, said:

I would ask the question why we have chosen 3050 as the end state for weapons. We're "balancing" clan weapons against state of the art Inner Sphere weapons of 3050.

What will happen as later weapons are introduced which are when Inner Sphere weapons actually began to be superior to clan weapons - will PGI have any choice but to continue to "balance" them against 3050 weapons? By dumbing down clan weapons, PGI is committing themselves to having to "balance" all weapons down to 3050 standards or (at a later time) having to upgrade ALL clan weapons back to their original standards.....

The proposed nerfed clan weapons are still considerably better than the IS weapon systems. Keeping them the same as cannon would almost certainly result in the clan mechs smashing the IS teams even when the IS out numbers the clans by a third or greater, and that would be no fun at all.

[Grevar]

Clans just force up all the problems what were ignored. whithout soving such features as heat balance, lrm/srm problem, AC reworking (so were will be no 80 Damage at one point from 2xUAC20 configs in 2 sec by dab-tap), implimented community warfare with "Role" warfare dependant on electronic warfare, clans will be something 100% diffirent from what we expect to see.

It's impossible to make "standart" configs run in this situation what we have now, they too hot, too slow and etc. Clans will have no difference, and without customization will be unusable, and if you try to balance them in such manner what you want, they also will be far from expectation of 95% people. Right now more then half mechs are obsolete, Such mechs like Awesome,centurion,hunchback,dragoon, blackjack,trebuchet, and in general all lights and mediums less and less appear on battlefield. With my ELO ppl usualy highly restricted to most usable configs and mechs, and on battlefield rule and most common such mechs like jaggermech (3-4 AC5,3UAC5+MPL,2x Gauss and less 4x AC2 configs), Stalkers (tough armor and very nice weapon placements), Highlanders+Victors (Jumpjets + nice usability), Atlas-D-DC (ECM+tough target). Medium and light mechs, and more then half of heavy mechs just don't have purpose to exist. There is no goal for them. you don't need recon on such small maps, you don't need maneuverability more then highlander have and right now - the better firepower and armor you have the better it's for you. Ask youself what you want in team, Centurion with Dragoon or 2 Jaggermechs with 3 UAC5 each?


And now you want to balance CLANS? you even didn't success with IS and just want more mechs to be forgotten after month. Look at Phoenix packs - how many of this mechs are on battlefield? Shadowhawck almost one from it - briliant isn't it?

[SaltBeef]

Personally I feel inner sphere mechs are way too flexible from the get go and are the reason for all the issues. Inner sphere mechs were not easy weapon swaps and most did not have endo or FF armor. Nerfing the clan to fit the profile of inner sphere flexibility has created this problem. Inner sphere mechs should be restricted to their default load outs. Then Clan mechs fixed armor engine speed, but full weapons TT configurations. NO Boating at all was not in the books at all. Un nerf all weapons and follow TT. Drop more inner sphere mechs than clan mechs at drop. problems fixed everyone happy and true to the lore and history of the game in all its formats.

Edited by SaltBeef, 26 December 2013 - 10:43 AM.

[NRP]

I don't know. Mech customization is one of the things that makes this game fun and intriguing, at least for me. IMO, limiting flexibility and customization is the wrong way to go.

[SaltBeef]

It is fun to customize and boat weapons and increase alpha build but it breaks the game. Inner sphere had limited tech due to endless centuries of infighting and despotism. The clans had better weapons in Omni pods but sent less troops to fight larger numbers for the sake of honor. Inner sphere did not start beating the clans until they put their squabbles aside and joined forces to repel the jaguars. In turn kinda creating a better starleague. Some of the clans were sympathetic to the inner sphere and started accepting freebirths in their ranks also looking at the inner sphere as something that needed protection from the clans and from itself. The Caste system of warrior despotism soured the clans vs the inner sphere they became what they tried to prevent.

Edited by SaltBeef, 26 December 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[NRP]

Customization doesn't have to break the game though.

Also, it's not very useful to imo to talk about what happened in the novels with the Clans and the IS. This is an online PvP game. Totally different thing.