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Clan Technology - A Design Perspective - Feedback


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#1761 AaronWolf

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 03:20 PM

View PostNRP, on 13 January 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

The problem with "quirks" is that they make practically no difference in reality, at least if by quirks they mean the quirks they've applied to IS mechs so far (torso twist range/speed, accel/decel changes, climbing archetypes, etc).

I do not think "quirks" are enough to properly distinguish Clan mechs from IS mechs.



View PostAaronWolf, on 13 January 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:


Maybe they will add more quirks/differences!



Looks like you missed a word.

But I get what you are saying NRP.

Though I doubt it will just be "Quirks". If so, it will only hurt them.

My main point is that we have no real clue what the end result will be until they have put it out.

#1762 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 04:57 PM

89 pages into the thread, I'm sure no one of consequence will read this. Such is life.

It seems to me that the clan reveal post missed perhaps the BIGGEST difference between clan and IS tech: NUMBERS OF MECHS IN MANEUVER.

Clan mechs greatly overmatched their IS opponents. Their weapons were considerably superior, their equipment was superior, their individual mechwarriors were superior, and their mechs on the battlefield were, as the sum of their parts, FAR superior. Even with a significant numerical advantage on the battlefield, IS forces regularly got their junk handed to them.

If there's not a numerical difference on the battlefield, and clear clan-vs-IS distribution, then it's just a waste and another missed opportunity.

I'm just not convinced that this is moving in the right direction any more. Kinda disappointed in myself that I ever was.

#1763 Phantomime

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:36 PM

View PostTheRAbbi, on 13 January 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

89 pages into the thread, I'm sure no one of consequence will read this. Such is life.

It seems to me that the clan reveal post missed perhaps the BIGGEST difference between clan and IS tech: NUMBERS OF MECHS IN MANEUVER.

Clan mechs greatly overmatched their IS opponents. Their weapons were considerably superior, their equipment was superior, their individual mechwarriors were superior, and their mechs on the battlefield were, as the sum of their parts, FAR superior. Even with a significant numerical advantage on the battlefield, IS forces regularly got their junk handed to them.

If there's not a numerical difference on the battlefield, and clear clan-vs-IS distribution, then it's just a waste and another missed opportunity.

I'm just not convinced that this is moving in the right direction any more. Kinda disappointed in myself that I ever was.


I feel this. and it has been brought up a few times. they seem to want to balance weapons that were never supposed to be balanced outside of sheer numberical supriority...

there are ways to limit / deal with front end damage weapons so that 'Clan' doesnt mean 'insta-nuke' but outside of that, actually balancing Clan to be equal to IS of the same tonnage is a mistake.

#1764 GalaxyBluestar

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 06:19 PM

You know why PGI have taken this route don’t you?

Because they can’t implement a select character screen with separate mechbays etc and split the player cues.

That’s why Clans are being brought down to IS levels. PGI are too incompetent to evolve their alpha system other than write a code to allow swapping hardpoints like weapons, meanwhile locking the rest of the mech lab fun away on each clan mech, the only time they’ll use TT is when their other breakaways from it screw the game up. Seriously Paul can’t form an argument for supierior clan erLLs when the MWO are not TT erLLs they are already buffed well passed TT values! Add master mech tree perks and possibly these “level” modules and the IS version will almost be a match for the clan one performance wise. And what’s the point of fitting more HS and weapons when GH will still reign in on the effectiveness. IS material is already buffed far beyond TT values so why nerf Clan TT stuff back down? Because PGI are tacking clans onto the IS mech lab and bonuses, it’s the laziest mess ever!
If PGI could have a character select on your account so that you could choose to access the game we already have with founders in the hanger and IS weapons and mechlab rules. Then you log out back to the character select and choose clans which leads to a different interface with only clan material in the bay and honour is the currency with bonus honour for taking on a single mech without any interference ie; you did 100% of the damage to the kill. And a different tech tree etc. build more powerfull mechs with the same amount of customising as IS ones reall omni pods but DON’T have any tech trees and only one module a mech. Clan prices will be doubled or more as it’s always been so that’s well and truly enough to work for. launch into a game where you’re 6 down constantly so you have figure how to take on two at a time and avoid being ganged up on {even blobs are no match if the opposite is a much bigger one}
by god the game’s immersive, functionality and gameplay prospects would skyrocket to such an unique and brilliantly tactical and interactive experience it would make up for everything 2013 did to screw the game up.

Until I see the current lazy approach change and see some commitment to the IP’s principles, the point of the franchise being clans vs IS and adding weight that community warfare will not just be the blue stiener bar is higher than the red Kurita bar well done stiener players, the better the chances that the mechwarrior brand will not be buried as a mediocre failier to entice anybody other than shoot on sight toddler players.
I would refuse to participate in the current vision because that’s not a MW game. This isn’t beta so why is the game not developing beyond this instant action sandbox mess? It should and those advocating to “adapt” to it are killing this game’s chance of survival.
to all the “to be commercially viable I want to play with my friends let me play as bowser holding hands with my friend Mario crowd” learn that FPS have sides and you can’t be on both because all successful FPS have the integrity of obeying their own IP universe. To suggest otherwise kills the whole point of having a goodie vs baddie IP. this was not advertised as world of mechs you can’t have factions and invasions of randoms. So start insisting that the development goes in the right direction rather than support PGI’s balance blundering to avoid developing the CW aspects any further than forever randoms TDM {scrap}. The great houses of the IS unite against the clans, the game started with the premise of CW being a year of IS infights to tweak the CW mechanics to work properly before letting the clans invade, hence the avatars and faction selection, still without clan pics but we take sales in advance for…. What ever they are. So just think for a moment where these plans take us…. STOP CONDONING LAZY “ADAPTION” DESIGNS WHICH DESTROYS THE WHOLE POINT IN THIS GAME’S EXSISTANCE AS IT BEING ADVERTISED!


View PostTaemien, on 13 January 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:


As for the question about mixed teams being viable in 3051. Again this is MechWarrior, and its not uncommon to see tech jump the era a bit. I mean how did Smoke Jaguar have Striders, Sunders and Owenses on Tranquil in MW3, specifically in the amount that you had to face off in that campaign? I could see maybe a couple here or there, but they very prevalent in the beginning of the game. Tranquil wasn't exactly on the border of the Dracs.


if you’re going to site MW games of old please use MW2mercs which is the only one that shares MWO’s timeline. MW3-4 and the MC games was situated after the clans defeat by about 10 so years later from MWO timeline {hence no Uzeils and avatars, jenners before owens etc} and so everyone had mixed tech by then along with starleague gear, bombast lasers, heavy lasers and light gauss etc etc. MWO shouldn't have such things for years. MW3 starts off with you crashing from your IS invasion dropship into the final worlds of SJ territory where you come across second line mechs, no waste for IS chassis as per LORE which is why annihilators show up a lot alongside thors-summoners, the clans never waste anything and all this equipment was conquered and brought back to their home worlds, IS {scrap} kept behind the lines, second units as per LORE, {which is why MW2 had all the IIC varients for deep clan territory infighting missions} but the IS start to fight back and try catching them out in MW3's story line. That’s why more and more clan enemy mechs turn up in the later campaigns as they start to intercept you, listen to the mission briefing where radio intercepts keep indicating gathering clan forces intercepting you, that's why you're on the move so oftern. MW3 at least tries to folow the lore well, MWO looks like it doesn’t give a damn, IS mech lab and heat threasholds bare that out, stock chassis are dead chassis. you just look like a noob-franchise blasphemer trying to justify MWO having IS deploy all this clan material in this timeline, supporting the damnation lazy approach.

#1765 Vermaxx

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 10:54 PM

Basically everything GalaxyBluestar says is right. Combining "Clan" players into the same matches as "everyone else" is going to be both depressing and hilarious. Most "Clan" players won't go to the 12-v-12 queue because almost no one is ever in it. So, you'll see a lot of people who already ran 4-man pugstomps in even better mechs. They might roleplay as clanners but they will still just be one lance on one team, in a game where neither team is really doing anything other than shooting people.

The tech has to be mixed for me to be interested, but the costs and rarity alone would have been enough of a balance in early CW, especially if "your" faction wasn't doing well grinding down Clan players or capturing objective planets. Since we have none of the things I just mentioned, they HAVE to dumb it down to avoid completely invalidating all the items they've built up til now. Even then, most IS tech is still going to be "worse" than Clan equivalents and everyone will buy it. Everyone uses DHS even though they're not as good as they should be, and their average value drops the more you install. Everyone will use Clan DHS, Clan engines, Clan ferro and endo, and probably Clan medium lasers.

Oh, and the fact that they're RIGIDLY sticking to the rules of Omnimechs is hilarious. Yes, for balance it needs to happen. Except the fact that any standard mech will have far better customization than Omnimechs. That line in the paragraph where Paul says 'we might relax this for game balance' probably means they'll change things to sell more expensive mechs.

Seriously, when I run with friends, we're going to offer the enemy team the honorable choice: help us kill all the "Clan" players first, regardless of which side they're on, and then we'll even out the teams so the Inner Sphere players can have a proper fight. Granted, it probably won't happen much because everyone wants to win rather than have zany fun, but if it does it will be HI-LARIOUS. Especially for those Clan players who show up in their Solid Gold Mech.

Edit: I saw a post tonight that said 'we need less content and more FEATURES.' That is one hundred percent the issue. This game is exactly the same feature set as closed beta. No, we do not have three game modes. We have one game mode with two sub objectives: kill everyone; OR cap their base OR cap more supply. We have a few new maps, a ton more mechs, MAAANY ways to give PGI money, but this is exactly the same "game" as closed beta. I said it then, and I'll say it now: this is a very nice demo of a larger game. It is a NICE demo, with a lot of content, but it is still just the COMBAT DEMO of a game that was preached as a massively multiplayer, feature-rich Battletech paradise. It's got plenty of Battletech flavor but no soul.

Edited by Vermaxx, 13 January 2014 - 10:59 PM.


#1766 Randis

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 11:40 PM

I would love to see the separation of Clan and IS characters/careers/modes as Galaxy has suggested.
I'm playing this game because I grew up with the tabletop game and love the universe. Nostalgia has already made me sink a lot of time and money into the game. It wouldn't be Battletech for me to see mixed sides or technology levels in the 3050-era. When you set a game in an established universe, trading on the established fan-base for that IP, you should adhere to the established time-line.
In my opinion the backstory should be adhered to, especially as it provides a solution to the issue. The Clans had a culture of bidding the minimum resources to take an objective. The number of Clan mechs and/or their total tonnage should be adjusted to provide a fair match.
I have reservations about the notion of different chassis of Clan mechs. The whole point of Omnimechs was their versatility. They didn't have restrictions on what could be mounted or not, and could be tailored for a mission. I would think that omni weapon mounts, able to allow ballistic, energy or missile weapons would be the best way to proceed. I would kind of resent having to buy a whole other chassis to get access to the arm I wanted, when that does not fit with Battletech canon.
While the prior MW games allowed mixed tech, the TT game and the associated fiction made it clear that Clan tech was very difficult for the IS to maintain, let alone reverse engineer and construct. Mixed tech bases don't start to appear until almost a century later.
Ultimately, maybe they need to follow the TT system and generate a points system for setting matches, which takes technology and chassis into account. It would enable newcomers to the game, starting with a bases chassis, to compete a more even footing. As it is most mechs need to be upgraded to be effective, even with the skill trees.

#1767 BlackWindKaze

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 01:01 AM

while I'm happy clan mechs are going to be introduced in the next while I'm hoping you guys aren't going to use the inner sphere names why would you do that instead of using the official clan names for those mechs IE Timber Wolf and Mad Dog. I grew up with these two mechs and it honestly annoys me when I see people refer to them as the Mad Cat and the Vulture. These are not inner sphere mechs so why would we use the names given to them by the inner sphere who has no data on them rather than their official clan names.

#1768 Mercer Skye

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 01:07 AM

View PostBlackWindKaze, on 14 January 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

while I'm happy clan mechs are going to be introduced in the next while I'm hoping you guys aren't going to use the inner sphere names why would you do that instead of using the official clan names for those mechs IE Timber Wolf and Mad Dog. I grew up with these two mechs and it honestly annoys me when I see people refer to them as the Mad Cat and the Vulture. These are not inner sphere mechs so why would we use the names given to them by the inner sphere who has no data on them rather than their official clan names.


First, I believe the IS names are just what was used for the names of the Clan pre-order packs. the actual names on the 'spoiler' sheets read the Clan names. Second, the IS didn't have the Clan names to go by, otherwise there would never have been any IS names to begin with. most of those names came from targeting computer glitches trying to read the profiles, or input manually from popular call signs for the rigs.

But, I can agree that as far as purchasing them and their official tags, sure, why not go with regular Clan designators when against Clans, and registering the IS names when IS are targeting them? Seems like it would be proper.

#1769 Taemien

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 03:03 AM

View PostVermaxx, on 13 January 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

Basically everything GalaxyBluestar says is right. Combining "Clan" players into the same matches as "everyone else" is going to be both depressing and hilarious.


Except that what he is saying is entirely based off an assumption of mine which isn't safe to do when we're 5 months away from the mechs being implemented.

Though I have to challenge the fact combining Clan and IS players into the same pool (at least for a general queue, the one probably used for grinding out cbills and xp, not the CW one) would be depressing and hilarious. Other MechWarrior games did it, and it wasn't an issue. There was a bit of an arms race for the PUG'ers. But some of the more hardcore units would still use IS.

And the problem there was that even with even teams we still won. What is going to happen to clan pugs who have to fight superior IS numbers (regardless if the IS team is PUG or premade)? As I said before, it won't help them. Some players' abilities are not diminished by 'inferior tech'. Remember if you get separate factions you get less than optimum ELO matching results. Obviously lesser players are going to gravitate towards clan tech simply because it gives them an edge. So this idea of Clan Players being all elite 3/4 pilots vs our 4/5 is ridiculous. The player skill is going to be evenly matched.

The issue is PUGies would have more targets shooting at them than before. How would they deal with that? Tech won't help them. It didn't help them in MW2, MW3, or MW4. How is it going to help them here? Do we break canon and make Clan ER PPCs do 20 dmg? Thats what would need to be done in order to get 8v5 to work.

Or triple armor values for Clan mechs. Because look at it this way. What happens when you have two mechs firing at you right now? You drop right? Cept if there's an inflated weight modifier.. that assault instead would probably be a heavy and drop even quicker. Clan mechs have the same armor values as IS ones. 1 ton = 16 points or 32 in MWO. 48 would give them a fighting chance against 5v8 odds.

Remember there's objectives to be found. How does a clan team split their forces up in a way they don't get picked off? They need entirely different game modes to make this work.

So.. for different sized teams we need buffed clan weapons (buffed beyond their TT values, aka 20 dmg PPCs), Triple armor values, and entirely new game types. Yeah... that ain't happening.

#1770 Gladewolf

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 05:00 AM

View PostTaemien, on 14 January 2014 - 03:03 AM, said:


Except that what he is saying is entirely based off an assumption of mine which isn't safe to do when we're 5 months away from the mechs being implemented.

Though I have to challenge the fact combining Clan and IS players into the same pool (at least for a general queue, the one probably used for grinding out cbills and xp, not the CW one) would be depressing and hilarious. Other MechWarrior games did it, and it wasn't an issue. There was a bit of an arms race for the PUG'ers. But some of the more hardcore units would still use IS.

And the problem there was that even with even teams we still won. What is going to happen to clan pugs who have to fight superior IS numbers (regardless if the IS team is PUG or premade)? As I said before, it won't help them. Some players' abilities are not diminished by 'inferior tech'. Remember if you get separate factions you get less than optimum ELO matching results. Obviously lesser players are going to gravitate towards clan tech simply because it gives them an edge. So this idea of Clan Players being all elite 3/4 pilots vs our 4/5 is ridiculous. The player skill is going to be evenly matched.

The issue is PUGies would have more targets shooting at them than before. How would they deal with that? Tech won't help them. It didn't help them in MW2, MW3, or MW4. How is it going to help them here? Do we break canon and make Clan ER PPCs do 20 dmg? Thats what would need to be done in order to get 8v5 to work.

Or triple armor values for Clan mechs. Because look at it this way. What happens when you have two mechs firing at you right now? You drop right? Cept if there's an inflated weight modifier.. that assault instead would probably be a heavy and drop even quicker. Clan mechs have the same armor values as IS ones. 1 ton = 16 points or 32 in MWO. 48 would give them a fighting chance against 5v8 odds.

You ask a fair question, and asymmetric combat deserves the same chance at balance that we would give to attempting to "redesign" clan mechs(what's the sweet spot for a handicap). Many will tell you that energy weapons are too hot now...but we are going to balance clan mechs by raising heat penalties even higher? How does your new player fair in that situation? As far as the use of inner sphere chassis in other titles...yes that did happen, but I put clan tech in mine...the only time I used IS was when we had an economy simulation....and no one had double armor, which makes a big difference. New players will need help no matter what happens. As far as weapon damage...a clan ERPPC does 15 without breaking cannon...and there are 2 clan assault mechs that can field 4 of those with relative ease(one comes that way standard)......because the heat debt would be the same as ERPPCs currently in game.....until they alter it.....with that level of firepower a rookie would just miss AND shut his mech down.....how would YOU do? I'm betting you'd fair a LOT better. Now let's say it's you and 4 or 5of your buddies(the advantage of a smaller team could also be......a larger coordinated team) not saying number balance is a perfect idea either..I just think it has less potential for rage inducement...than the current plan.

Edited by Gladewolf, 14 January 2014 - 06:16 AM.


#1771 Gladewolf

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 05:16 AM

Additionally, when considering skill and known ability vs tech....they need to add more fast lights..I would suggest the Vixen(Incubus) to help in that regard(and others like it)...the current set of inner sphere lights...when armed to hunt lights would tear up low armor mechs that can only do 90ish kph.

#1772 Ace Selin

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 06:11 AM

Clan and IS separate queues will not happen for the same reason first and third person separate queues never happened... the player base is too small. You would have to wait 15 mins for a game not a few like you do now. While it sounds great in principal, in reality with the game and player base we have, combined with the developers, it isn't going to happen. you'll see IS & clanners fighting other IS and clanners.. why because they're actually IS with clan mechs, if they're showing an IS house emblem.

#1773 Gladewolf

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 06:46 AM

View PostAce Selin, on 14 January 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

Clan and IS separate queues will not happen for the same reason first and third person separate queues never happened... the player base is too small. You would have to wait 15 mins for a game not a few like you do now. While it sounds great in principal, in reality with the game and player base we have, combined with the developers, it isn't going to happen. you'll see IS & clanners fighting other IS and clanners.. why because they're actually IS with clan mechs, if they're showing an IS house emblem.


Right now, we have 4 separate queues...the only one that doesn't work all the time is the one that isn't designed to be used with the other 3...that's 12v12. The only thought behind a clan v clan queue is to avoid having a glut of clan players twiddling their thumbs waiting for IS pilots. Like the current set-up these queues would need to be designed to work WITH the other queues...and I think 12 v 12 should simply be replaced with a lobby system so that those that are trying to engage in competitive play can do so at their leisure instead of being at the mercy of a queue that may not have enough players to even launch at certain (actually most) times of the day.

#1774 Taemien

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:20 AM

View PostGladewolf, on 14 January 2014 - 05:00 AM, said:

You ask a fair question, and asymmetric combat deserves the same chance at balance that we would give to attempting to "redesign" clan mechs(what's the sweet spot for a handicap). Many will tell you that energy weapons are too hot now...but we are going to balance clan mechs by raising heat penalties even higher? How does your new player fair in that situation? As far as the use of inner sphere chassis in other titles...yes that did happen, but I put clan tech in mine...the only time I used IS was when we had an economy simulation....and no one had double armor, which makes a big difference. New players will need help no matter what happens. As far as weapon damage...a clan ERPPC does 15 without breaking cannon...and there are 2 clan assault mechs that can field 4 of those with relative ease(one comes that way standard)......because the heat debt would be the same as ERPPCs currently in game.....until they alter it.....with that level of firepower a rookie would just miss AND shut his mech down.....how would YOU do? I'm betting you'd fair a LOT better. Now let's say it's you and 4 or 5of your buddies(the advantage of a smaller team could also be......a larger coordinated team) not saying number balance is a perfect idea either..I just think it has less potential for rage inducement...than the current plan.


I doubt heat penalties would be altered. When I say heat efficient I am talking about base heat cost. A Masakari would be able to fire 4 PPCs... if it group fired them in sets of twos. Awesomes can already do this to some degree, Masa's will be able to do it better due to more DHS equipped.

To be more clear. An ER Medium Laser is going to generate more heat than a Medium Laser. It also deals more damage and more range, thats going to happen in MWO, and its how it works in lore, TT, and everything else. Though if they follow the same logic as they've stated, it will take more time to do that extra damage. You still do 7 damage per shot. You do 5 damage in the time it takes a medium laser to do 5 (I'm assuming), but get another 2 damage for another bit of duration. I don't see that as being gimped.

Granted that we probably won't see TT values in range. But not much in MWO is using TT values. Not many MechWarrior games ever did. 800m range LRMs in MW3 for example which also had 1000m range ER Large Lasers (IS and Clan). So I don't see this as a game breaking issue. It didn't break the previous titles.

Also clan weapons are not all energy based. Only 7 of them are. It sounds like they are weak in the current meta. That can change between now and June. So in reality everyone's getting amped up about a whole lot of nothing. The equipment still takes less tons and less criticals. They will do more damage and more range, thats a fact. So what's the issue? The idea that a Clan Medium Pulse Laser may fire differently than a IS one? Seriously? You all want them to fire the exact same? Is the issue actually that you all are afraid of a change to the current meta which this will undoubtedly cause?

As for what I said about DPS values being higher in IS and straight punch being higher in the Clans, thats not a deviation from the lore. Clan manufacturers are different than IS ones. All we have are board game stats (based on a per shot basis and not DPS for most weapons, especially energy), so as far as I am concerned, they can tweak the values here and there. They've not been clearly stated so they get some creative licensing here.

Omnimechs I could see concerns with, but they all come with ES and DHS and most have max or near max armor. So thats a couple less things that need to be changed upon purchase. The way I see it the only thing clan mechs don't favor are close range brawling configs. But you can use their battlemechs like the Hunchback II-C for that. And it fits in their lore and fighting style, which you all should be fine with since you're claiming lore violations all over the place.

They get to pick and choose hardpoints depending on arms. Thats a pretty good tactical advantage. Not only do you have flexibility in loadout types. You also get the benefit of you opponents not knowing what the hell you might be packing. That Masakari Prime may be packing a Gauss or LBX20.. who the hell knows?

I don't see how peeps can complain. You're getting an 85 tonner that runs at 64kph and can mount 2 Clan Large Pulse Lasers and a UAC20. And possibly some other junk. Even if the tech is balanced to IS stuff.. thats still a nasty mech.

#1775 Tombstoner

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:25 AM

cant split the player base anymore then it is. hence why PGI will move the heavens and earth to make IS =Clan. but clan will be better in slight but meaning full ways. probably in terms of durability. clan tech= more HP. damage increases will become improved damage drop offs and slightly higher starting damages. heat will be more favorable ghost heat penalties.

The single greatest hurtle the clans have is they suffer from catapult cockpit syndrome and dragon/awesome center torsos bulls eyes.

#1776 wanderer

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:28 AM

View PostTombstoner, on 14 January 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

cant split the player base anymore then it is. hence why PGI will move the heavens and earth to make IS =Clan. but clan will be better in slight but meaning full ways. probably in terms of durability. clan tech= more HP. damage increases will become improved damage drop offs and slightly higher starting damages. heat will be more favorable ghost heat penalties.

The single greatest hurtle the clans have is they suffer from catapult cockpit syndrome and dragon/awesome center torsos bulls eyes.


The problem of course will be that a bad Clan rollout will contract the playerbase still further, thereby being a self-fufilling prophecy that Clan 'Mech need to be near carbon-copies of IS ones to make the game playable. And wishy-washy "Clantech" will be the very definition of "bad Clan rollout".

I worry that what we're seeing here is the devs tossing any hope of a real finished game out the window while knowing there's nothing that can replace it for half a decade- at least not without paying them for the license first.

#1777 Gladewolf

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 11:12 AM

View PostTaemien, on 14 January 2014 - 10:20 AM, said:


I doubt heat penalties would be altered. When I say heat efficient I am talking about base heat cost. A Masakari would be able to fire 4 PPCs... if it group fired them in sets of twos. Awesomes can already do this to some degree, Masa's will be able to do it better due to more DHS equipped.

To be more clear. An ER Medium Laser is going to generate more heat than a Medium Laser. It also deals more damage and more range, thats going to happen in MWO, and its how it works in lore, TT, and everything else. Though if they follow the same logic as they've stated, it will take more time to do that extra damage. You still do 7 damage per shot. You do 5 damage in the time it takes a medium laser to do 5 (I'm assuming), but get another 2 damage for another bit of duration. I don't see that as being gimped.

Granted that we probably won't see TT values in range. But not much in MWO is using TT values. Not many MechWarrior games ever did. 800m range LRMs in MW3 for example which also had 1000m range ER Large Lasers (IS and Clan). So I don't see this as a game breaking issue. It didn't break the previous titles.

Also clan weapons are not all energy based. Only 7 of them are. It sounds like they are weak in the current meta. That can change between now and June. So in reality everyone's getting amped up about a whole lot of nothing. The equipment still takes less tons and less criticals. They will do more damage and more range, thats a fact. So what's the issue? The idea that a Clan Medium Pulse Laser may fire differently than a IS one? Seriously? You all want them to fire the exact same? Is the issue actually that you all are afraid of a change to the current meta which this will undoubtedly cause?

As for what I said about DPS values being higher in IS and straight punch being higher in the Clans, thats not a deviation from the lore. Clan manufacturers are different than IS ones. All we have are board game stats (based on a per shot basis and not DPS for most weapons, especially energy), so as far as I am concerned, they can tweak the values here and there. They've not been clearly stated so they get some creative licensing here.

Omnimechs I could see concerns with, but they all come with ES and DHS and most have max or near max armor. So thats a couple less things that need to be changed upon purchase. The way I see it the only thing clan mechs don't favor are close range brawling configs. But you can use their battlemechs like the Hunchback II-C for that. And it fits in their lore and fighting style, which you all should be fine with since you're claiming lore violations all over the place.

They get to pick and choose hardpoints depending on arms. Thats a pretty good tactical advantage. Not only do you have flexibility in loadout types. You also get the benefit of you opponents not knowing what the hell you might be packing. That Masakari Prime may be packing a Gauss or LBX20.. who the hell knows?

I don't see how peeps can complain. You're getting an 85 tonner that runs at 64kph and can mount 2 Clan Large Pulse Lasers and a UAC20. And possibly some other junk. Even if the tech is balanced to IS stuff.. thats still a nasty mech.

...PGI wants to balance them enough to prevent an arms race. Their words, not mine(paraphrased) what you are presenting does not amount to that...and what they are getting is mechs that can mount (breaths in) 4xUAC2s, 2ERPPCs and an LB10xand some other junk...(translation 2x gauss rifles, 2 ERPPCs....and some other junk..for a sustainable 60 point alpha). What does "Balance" really mean to you? Maybe my issue is that my definition does not match the plan...but what you have listed above, to me, does NOT amount to balance. This fails the KISS test, sounds like a {Scrap} ton of work.......and well, the clocks ticking.
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#1778 Tombstoner

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 12:33 PM

View Postwanderer, on 14 January 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

The problem of course will be that a bad Clan rollout will contract the playerbase still further, thereby being a self-fufilling prophecy that Clan 'Mech need to be near carbon-copies of IS ones to make the game playable. And wishy-washy "Clantech" will be the very definition of "bad Clan rollout".

I worry that what we're seeing here is the devs tossing any hope of a real finished game out the window while knowing there's nothing that can replace it for half a decade- at least not without paying them for the license first.

Wishy-washy clan tech = a bad roll out is not gonna happen since the people who know TT are not the target audience.....

we can hate how clan tech was gutted, but only BT fans can tell the difference and many of them dont care. They have resolved themselves to this is MWO.

If Clanteck becomes enhanced durability with a modest increase in fire power i'm gonna be happy, cause the game will over all be improved.

asking us to pay money for trust us its gona be good is not..... almost got burned last time.

#1779 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 05:08 PM

If you can't split the player queues, you don't need to be developing anything more challenging than "Hello World".

I dropped out of computer science, and I can figure THAT out.

JTFC, it takes ONE SINGLE BIT PER PLAYER, literally a couple kilobytes at any given moment in time across the freakin' WORLD, to figure it out. Clan mechs are all 1s, IS mechs all 0s. Server says, "All 1s go to queue 1, all 0s go to queue 0."

Did I miss something in the few classes I DID ace? Did some professor mention, that day I was sick, that, "Oh, by the way, if you're developing an online multiplayer video game, you don't need to remember any of that stuff from last semester at all"?

Seriously, this QUITE FREAKING LITERALLY is not rocket science.


Here, I give you all a challenge, because I know some of you can code monkey with the best of 'em:

Write a pseudocode function to instantiate two queues for a map.
Rewrite it to separate incoming connections to those queues based on a single boolean value.
REWRITE that to retrieve an INT from another queue, from which the new incoming connections are drawn.
And finally, rewrite THAT to determine what kinds of queues to instantiate, based upon the number of each boolean type within the general queue of potential connections.

Hey, let's make it a contest! Fewest characters in the pseudocode wins! I'll put something in my signature about how you're apparently smarter than everyone thinks PGI's network folks are. Sorry, I don't have the money for anything more significant, or I really WOULD offer a cash prize. But I changed majors to something in the humanities.

I CAN tell you how to say FML in Russian, though--I've said it MANY a time over this game...

#1780 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 05:12 PM

View PostGladewolf, on 14 January 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

...and well, the clocks ticking.
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Speaking of ticking clocks, what year is it in the game?

(Hint--the clock is REALLY SSLLLOOOOWWWWW........)





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