1978 replies to this topic

[Whatzituyah]

TheRAbbi, on 14 January 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

Speaking of ticking clocks, what year is it in the game?

(Hint--the clock is REALLY SSLLLOOOOWWWWW........)

http://mwomercs.com/clock

[Taemien]

TheRAbbi, on 14 January 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

If you can't split the player queues, you don't need to be developing anything more challenging than "Hello World".

I dropped out of computer science, and I can figure THAT out.

JTFC, it takes ONE SINGLE BIT PER PLAYER, literally a couple kilobytes at any given moment in time across the freakin' WORLD, to figure it out. Clan mechs are all 1s, IS mechs all 0s. Server says, "All 1s go to queue 1, all 0s go to queue 0."

Did I miss something in the few classes I DID ace? Did some professor mention, that day I was sick, that, "Oh, by the way, if you're developing an online multiplayer video game, you don't need to remember any of that stuff from last semester at all"?

Seriously, this QUITE FREAKING LITERALLY is not rocket science.


Here, I give you all a challenge, because I know some of you can code monkey with the best of 'em:

Write a pseudocode function to instantiate two queues for a map.
Rewrite it to separate incoming connections to those queues based on a single boolean value.
REWRITE that to retrieve an INT from another queue, from which the new incoming connections are drawn.
And finally, rewrite THAT to determine what kinds of queues to instantiate, based upon the number of each boolean type within the general queue of potential connections.

Hey, let's make it a contest! Fewest characters in the pseudocode wins! I'll put something in my signature about how you're apparently smarter than everyone thinks PGI's network folks are. Sorry, I don't have the money for anything more significant, or I really WOULD offer a cash prize. But I changed majors to something in the humanities.

I CAN tell you how to say FML in Russian, though--I've said it MANY a time over this game...

Thats a bit of a red herring to say the least. No one said it was hard to code a match maker.

The points people are bringing up is that there isn't enough players to have a split queue. You can't simply code new players into the game. In fact the current match maker would work pretty sweetly in terms of balance if the playerbase increased tenfold. It works better with more people, and crappy as less players are queuing in a given instance.

[Ace Selin]

With reply to TheRabbi, so its easy to code the two queues, but what isn't easy is that you have (for example) 200 IS players waiting and only 50 Clan players, so the 150 players who don't have a match get to sit around for 15 min to have their shot at shooting Clan mechs or are forced to switch to playing Clans or go back to shooting IS mechs in the non FW side of the game?
Splitting queues wont happen... forget about the idea that it can.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Ace Selin, on 14 January 2014 - 11:29 PM, said:

With reply to TheRabbi, so its easy to code the two queues, but what isn't easy is that you have (for example) 200 IS players waiting and only 50 Clan players, so the 150 players who don't have a match get to sit around for 15 min to have their shot at shooting Clan mechs or are forced to switch to playing Clans or go back to shooting IS mechs in the non FW side of the game?
Splitting queues wont happen... forget about the idea that it can.

MM would split people like ELO...

working off the inappropriate 12 vs 12 for everything laziness

50 claners 150 IS online

48 clanners vs 48 IS can be matched

MM loosens parameters... like elo tonnage etc to allow IS vs IS

96 IS players are in an IS vs IS scenario

so 2 clanners and 6 IS have to wait without a match until one becomes available within 5-10 mins at the longest. whilst the rest find a match that's less than 10% of the players waiting and that's with a terribad amount of players to choose from. if you tried 8v8 or 12v12 mans cue you'll understand 5-10 mins wait is nothing.

it can be done and perform not much worse than what we already have when you're elo is top or bottom. the game lived on through those times and it can manage it again. it's worth it for adherence to the IP, a sense of purpose leading up to CW. if PGI did it i'd have reason to believe in their efforts and my wallet would open...

nerfs are a LAST RESORT, try the alt drop numbers give early buyers a week of testing this on the test server to see if doomsayers are correct about things. i doomed and gloomed over ecm spiders in skirmish and look what happened, just a few days and then it cleared up. skirmish now makes my rants of old look like scare mongering and i think the same applies to the asymetric balance can't work crowd. i'm as gobsmacked about it as anyone which proves you have to try before condemming options.

i know we're not in beta but this is one of the corner stones of this game. getting it's goodie vs baddie cues correct. when we've got a reall player base the MM can start factoring in faction alliance so we can have davions vs kurita and stieners vs the FFR etc. there has to be developement towards getting out of this shell structure we've had since alpha and got to start taking the design proposals from 2011 seriously or the game is dead, it's already in a bad way with it strewn over the internet like mud {read last 5 months worth of MWO in the news forum}

start building some respect for your own franchise and try to support it before leaving it a fail mushed up sandpit game. i promise players will come back because they'll all feel there's something worth investing in. it's what this game has been missing for a year and a half now.

want my $240 EARN IT!

and get round to delivering my PP purchase {loyalty points counter please!}

[CypherHalo]

Personally, given all the other problems with this game, I'm not sold on the clans at all and certainly not willing to pay the outrageous prices you are demanding.

Still, to keep on topic, the changes don't strike me as being all that great. It seems like high-skilled players will just take all clan tech and dominate everyone with it. Which of course, is why you all need to fix your matchmaking and a host of other issues before dealing with this, but hey, you don't care what we think.

On another note, and I know I'm in the minority so please, no one flame me, I really do not see why this game needs to even attempt to adhere to TT rules or the lore. While yes, there are some hardcore fans out there who could rattle of the top of their head what a Hunchback HBK-4G (or whatever) is armed with, there are plenty of fans like me who just do not get hopped up about the minutaie. So long as the basics of Mechwarrior are there, I'm happy, even if the build is not following lore or whatever. At this point though, I think PGI has so upset both the "hardcore" fans and the more "casual" fans like me that it is probably a lost cause.\

P.S. The best thing about this game remains the artwork/redesigns of the mechs. Absolutely gorgeous and the next MW game needs to either totally copy or be inspired by these designs. They are absolutely recognizable as the mechs of old but also updated to look very modern and cool. Props to the artist(s) behind that work.

Edited by CypherHalo, 15 January 2014 - 06:39 AM.

[Taemien]

CypherHalo, on 15 January 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

Personally, given all the other problems with this game, I'm not sold on the clans at all and certainly not willing to pay the outrageous prices you are demanding.

Still, to keep on topic, the changes don't strike me as being all that great. It seems like high-skilled players will just take all clan tech and dominate everyone with it. Which of course, is why you all need to fix your matchmaking and a host of other issues before dealing with this, but hey, you don't care what we think.

If you read about how they will implement the tech, you'd see that they aren't trying to make it OP. This is so a select few doesn't just dominate everyone else. Think of it as we're getting 28 new weapons and not simply upgrades to what we already have. Will they have trouble balancing it? Thats a matter of opinion. But no matter the opinion we'll just have to see what happens in June for that.

But thats what has alot of people in this thread riled up. They don't want 28 'new' weapons. They want 28 OP weapons. They have some delusions that they can take some OP weapons and just dominate with them. Premades would.. but not PUGs. They think every clan player is some god's gift to mechwarrior.. but they are sorely wrong.

Quote

On another note, and I know I'm in the minority so please, no one flame me, I really do not see why this game needs to even attempt to adhere to TT rules or the lore. While yes, there are some hardcore fans out there who could rattle of the top of their head what a Hunchback HBK-4G (or whatever) is armed with, there are plenty of fans like me who just do not get hopped up about the minutaie. So long as the basics of Mechwarrior are there, I'm happy, even if the build is not following lore or whatever. At this point though, I think PGI has so upset both the "hardcore" fans and the more "casual" fans like me that it is probably a lost cause.

You're not in the minority. You're in the silent majority. I'm a die hard battletech fan. I run a regular battletech game, RP based, that has been going on for 2 years now. Most die hard fans can't even find people to play with lol. But the point I am making here is that -I- don't think it needs to adhere to lore or TT values. I'm here to play some good mechwarrior, if I wanted to play some BattleTech, I'd go roll some dice.

But I think therein lies the problem in this debate. The hard core ones that DON'T have a regular group are trying to make this game fill in the gap. MechWarrior can never be the TT game. It never has, never was, and never will be. Then you've got the WikiWarriors that think they're experts on the game just because they read a website. You can tell these apart especially when they make claims about the modability of Omnis. With those claims its obvious they've never held a book.

Quote

P.S. The best thing about this game remains the artwork/redesigns of the mechs. Absolutely gorgeous and the next MW game needs to either totally copy or be inspired by these designs. They are absolutely recognizable as the mechs of old but also updated to look very modern and cool. Props to the artist(s) behind that work.

You're not kidding. They took mechs like the Trebuchet, Stalker, and Jagermech and made them look like beasts. Though I do have to mention that the weapons and such feel like they should. I mean no other previous game other than MWLL has really done that. All weapons (aside from mguns and flamers) feel like they are useful. I know some are better than others, but at least I don't feel gimped for using pulse lasers like I did in MW3. I feel like I can wreck face with SRMs where they didn't really do much in MW4 unless they were streaks. So my advice to anyone in this game is don't drink the koolaid. Don't jump on the corporation-hating bandwagon, and see the game for what it is. Which admittedly isn't much, simply launch, kill 12 mechs, and repeat. If anything -That- is the problem. Not the base gameplay itself.

[Wolfways]

CypherHalo, on 15 January 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

P.S. The best thing about this game remains the artwork/redesigns of the mechs. Absolutely gorgeous and the next MW game needs to either totally copy or be inspired by these designs. They are absolutely recognizable as the mechs of old but also updated to look very modern and cool. Props to the artist(s) behind that work.

This bit gets a like. As for the rest, well, i'm in the stick as close to lore as possible group

[Wolfways]

Taemien, on 15 January 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

But thats what has alot of people in this thread riled up. They don't want 28 'new' weapons. They want 28 OP weapons. They have some delusions that they can take some OP weapons and just dominate with them. Premades would.. but not PUGs. They think every clan player is some god's gift to mechwarrior.. but they are sorely wrong.

Generalize much?

[Tannhauser Gate]

Game balance is paramount. Sticking to lore and TT is important to preserve the theme and immersion of BT but MWO is not TT and its not canon and it, like all the other MW video games, is apocryphal. As much as I would like MWO to be the ultimate BT canon MMO it simply isn’t. Its an action simulation designed for fun game play.

Lore and TT should be observed but when it contradicts the goal of a balanced action sim, balance wins. The needs for balanced action sim game play should over rule lore and TT where needed.

[Kraven Kor]

Taemien, on 14 January 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

Thats a bit of a red herring to say the least. No one said it was hard to code a match maker.

The points people are bringing up is that there isn't enough players to have a split queue. You can't simply code new players into the game. In fact the current match maker would work pretty sweetly in terms of balance if the playerbase increased tenfold. It works better with more people, and crappy as less players are queuing in a given instance.

They can code players into the game.

New, interesting, lore-friendly, immersive game-play would bring in more players.

Community Warfare - some sort of persistent universe for us to wage nerd warfare over - would bring in more players.

Prices on items to where you don't have to be crazy, rich, or have unfettered access to your parents' credit card would bring in new players.

Less confusing mechanics couldn't hurt either.

But, what do I know?

[wanderer]

LakeDaemon, on 15 January 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

Game balance is paramount. Sticking to lore and TT is important to preserve the theme and immersion of BT but MWO is not TT and its not canon and it, like all the other MW video games, is apocryphal. As much as I would like MWO to be the ultimate BT canon MMO it simply isn’t. Its an action simulation designed for fun game play.

Lore and TT should be observed but when it contradicts the goal of a balanced action sim, balance wins. The needs for balanced action sim game play should over rule lore and TT where needed.

Then there is no need for Clan 'Mechs to begin with, as even in MW video games, the Clan version of each weapon and gear is superior. We simply strapped them onto IS 'Mech models. The same will apply here- even if the Clan version was a stat knockoff in every other way save criticals and tonnage, they will be superior to IS gear. If they don't match in tonnage and criticals, Clan 'Mechs are no longer able to be built to even roughly match their canonical versions.

That is, you can't build "Clan" and "balanced" by tech when the entire purpose of Clan tech was to be a separate, superior tier above 3050 Inner Sphere tech and still have actual Clan 'Mechs when you're done "balancing" them. They're functionally incompatible. You'd literally have to make some weapons -half the performance- they deliver as IS ones to have them match up- like two CLRM20's delivering the firepower of a single IS LRM20...and even then, the CLRM has no minimum.

What you -can- and -must- do is determine at what bar you're setting Clan technology, balance it against ITSELF, and then figure out what kind of force advantage an IS group needs to match up to it. Not turn Clan tech into some kind of farce.

[Tannhauser Gate]

Re: IS Force advantage vs Clan superior tech.

That preserves lore and BT theme, I agree, but it only makes sense on the surface. You cant keep Clan content exclusive enough to keep canon and have IS force advantage. Youre assuming people will not migrate to the superior tech in a mass exodus. PGI is already selling Clan mechs for June release so exclusivity out the window.

Only a fraction of players care about canon. The huge majority are players who want their BFG9000s and do not care if its called Clan or not. Overwhelming Clan tech superiority, as it is in the lore, should not exist in MWO. It should exist in a MMO, or in a game that is revolves around the meat of Clan vs IS. MWO does not. MWO is an action sim that is about battles on the level of sports matches – balanced and skill based.

[Taemien]

Kraven Kor, on 15 January 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

They can code players into the game.

Well technically they could.. they're called bots. They weren't fun to fight in MW4.

Quote

New, interesting, lore-friendly, immersive game-play would bring in more players.

Community Warfare - some sort of persistent universe for us to wage nerd warfare over - would bring in more players.

No doubt, course I said that already. Its going to be a make or break thing for even me. But I'm remaining open minded until its implemented. The game is a bore, simply put. No matter how good the game play is.. no game can have decent replay value if there's not a point to the competition. In the arcade it was bragging rights. But as I said, we'll have to see.

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Prices on items to where you don't have to be crazy, rich, or have unfettered access to your parents' credit card would bring in new players.

Last I checked the clan mechs would be available for cbills. So this is a non-issue. Unless you're telling me you're just offended by the fact there is a color of a mech that exists for the very rich? Envy and Jealousy are not healthy emotions to harbor.

If those gold masakaris could do more than regular masakaris.. you might have a point. But they don't. Let the guys with disposable incomes (don't have to be rich, just serve in the Army) have their toys,

Quote

Less confusing mechanics couldn't hurt either.

But, what do I know?

Welcome to MechWarrior

[Cavendish]

LakeDaemon, on 15 January 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

Re: IS Force advantage vs Clan superior tech.

That preserves lore and BT theme, I agree, but it only makes sense on the surface. You cant keep Clan content exclusive enough to keep canon and have IS force advantage. Youre assuming people will not migrate to the superior tech in a mass exodus. PGI is already selling Clan mechs for June release so exclusivity out the window.

Only a fraction of players care about canon. The huge majority are players who want their BFG9000s and do not care if its called Clan or not. Overwhelming Clan tech superiority, as it is in the lore, should not exist in MWO. It should exist in a MMO, or in a game that is revolves around the meat of Clan vs IS. MWO does not. MWO is an action sim that is about battles on the level of sports matches – balanced and skill based.

I personaly think you are mistaken about what the majority of the players care about. While we are all here to fight with stompy robots, considering the niche status of the game I would argue that a majority IS here to play the battletech game, not generic robot shooter.

The problems with the clan mechs and tech is that PGI from the begining gave us I.S. omnimechs, total custom builds. In lore this was not even remotely possible due to the stagnation and degeneration of the technology base in the I.S. The main thing about the clans was Omni tech and that they had kept the tech-knowledge of the Star League and improved upon it.

Now, in the situation we are in, I am more and more convinced that what PGI needs to do for a "quick fix" for the issue is just releasing clan weapons slightly more powerful in some ways, make it possible for all mechs to use em and make Clan mechs just another chassi. Just keep Clans as a seperate faction. This would screw up lore, but we already did that over and over to get a game that is sorta intresting to play. It would allow IS mechs to stay competative, it would solve the "OMG ALL CLAN PLAYERS JUST WANT OP MECHS!!one1"-BS that this thread is full of, and it would give us clear sides that have seperate factions for the future CW (god willing that it is actually released some day).

Is it a good solution? No, not at all, but on the other hand they need to fix this somehow within limits that does not make every mech outside Clans useless. Ive been a pro-10 vs 12 drop size supporter and a pro-clan tech supremacy supporter all the way, but while I a still am I also see that PGI needs to sort this out in a way that is acceptable for most players.

[Gasoline]

I really loved seeing that the clans will finally be implemented. Doing it right now really surprised me since the whole reason to implement them is still not live.

I read through a good bit of the thread and read a lot of {Scrap} as well as a whole lot of good suggestions.

The first thing to keep in mind is, that you're really stumbling over your own {Scrap} PGI. You began swinging the Awesome Nerfbat of Doom before thinking through the whole game concept. You start implementing things and realize that this would be overpowered so you nerfed it. DHS, ghost heat, ECM, BAP just to give some examples.

Now you just realized, that the (intended to be) overpowered clan 'Mechs are even more overpowered, so let's swing the nerfbat on the nerf. Honestly... are we playing NerfWarrior Online or what? Then give everyone of us a wheelchair with a machine gun and this might work out. And dare not asking money for this!

So much for the rage, now let's try to be constructive...

With the current game concept the clans will never work as they are. I thought about the honor code, but honestly, as much as I would appreciate this, this will never work with human beings. We're not genetically modified and this much coordination with pugs, where some people wouldn't even understand what you're talking about, won't work at all. It would even scare some people off I would guess. Another problem would be, that this would severly hamper the clans, as you would be focus fired one by one.

Asymmetric drops would be the easiest thing to do with the current game we have. 10 vs 12 would be fair I guess. Less clans or more IS would give the IS a too strong advantage with the current focus fire mechanics.
Drop weight limit won't work on it's own. Many clan Heavies are far more powerful the IS assaults. You need to count in for that. Either take BV into account or write your own calculation.

Stop changing established values. Heat, weight, crits... all those stats should absolutely stay untouched, even for IS 'Mechs.
Refrain from using that abysmal nerfbat which produces even more {Scrap} you'll stumble upon. Don't even think about mixed tech in this stage. This would most likely break the game.

Tbh I thought about the idea of using just premade (stock) builds, some people suggested. This actually might be fun. I tried to build as many stock variants as possible back in MW4, some were regrettably not possible to build. But I had a lot of fun playing them instead of boring boats or custom I-win-builds.

The most elegant thing to come around would really be to adjust the timeline once more. Give the IS their OmniMechs and advanced weaponry and everything's fine.

The most realistic balance would be a lot of work though. Just implement a campaign mode. Planetary conquest in different phases. Clans have to invade against IS, capture ressources and bases, destroy or conquer supply lines, industry and comm units and finally conquer the planetary capital to force surrender (see the idea behind Warhammer Online RvR). After a while ComStar assists the IS houses and planets become more and more difficult to conquer and are more heavily fortified. That would need NPC ground forces and static defenses of course. IS should be able to call in air strikes and artillery and launch counter offensives until the clan drop ships are destroyed which would result in a victory for the IS. Clans should have limited numbers, starting with maybe one galaxy to invade a planet on the beginning, later two to three galaxies, limited supply to start with, but their more advanced tech. The grande finale would be the battle of Tukayyid and the refusal war. That would be awesome... I guess... And it would seriously even out the factions.

I've no problem to invest further money in that game as long as you stop doing stupid things and stop being ignorant and stop making ******** "fixes". Even those $240 would be okay as long as I can drive my favorite 'Mechs and get the feel of being in a clan warmachine. I'll not pay a single buck for piloting a Clan Wolf wheelchair...

Something positive along the way... I really love the designs of the chassis. You're really doing a great job here. Looking forward to see all the other sexy clan designs (Hellbringer, Mad Dog or even a Dasher... maybe IIC variants as well?).

As a note. What in the nine freaking hells is that page: http://mwomercs.com/theplan. You're sure going to tell us you have 40% plan in implementing CW. That scared the living **** out of me... Honestly... what is this?

[Taemien]

It means its 40% complete.

[Tannhauser Gate]

Cavendish, on 16 January 2014 - 12:01 AM, said:

it would solve the "OMG ALL CLAN PLAYERS JUST WANT OP MECHS!!one1"-BS that this thread is full of

You politely disagree in your first sentence then use dismissive hyperbole as though my statement was alarmist BS. I stand by my statement. Most players do not care about lore (or care enough) and would rather win matches using the best weapons available. Most players do not want to be denied access to the content that would be considerably more powerful and, even more so, most players do not want to be beaten utterly like the Clan beat the IS initially in the lore. Moreover, allowing a select group of players to run amok in MWO with OP Clan tech is absurd. It would kill the game. Im just being realistic. I want MWO to succeed. I love the lore but MWO would fail if PGI tried to bend balanced, skill-based combat around the drama of OP Clan tech as it was in the lore.

Edited by LakeDaemon, 16 January 2014 - 09:15 AM.

[wanderer]

LakeDaemon, on 16 January 2014 - 09:06 AM, said:

You politely disagree in your first sentence then use dismissive hyperbole as though my statement was alarmist BS. I stand by my statement. Most players do not care about lore (or care enough) and would rather win matches using the best weapons available. Most players do not want to be denied access to the content that would be considerably more powerful and, even more so, most players do not want to be beaten utterly like the Clan beat the IS initially in the lore. Moreover, allowing a select group of players to run amok in MWO with OP Clan tech is absurd. It would kill the game. Im just being realistic. I want MWO to succeed. I love the lore but MWO would fail if PGI tried to bend balanced, skill-based combat around the drama of OP Clan tech as it was in the lore.

Most "utterly beat" IS forces in lore were 3025-tech designs. The equivalent would be what happens when you take a respectable force of normal customs with practiced players against an all-PUG-newbie-stock group that only gets 3025 tech in MWO. That is, the former are competent with and using solid, optimized designs vs. opponents using anything but and no idea what the other side could do in the first place, a process that repeated itself because early on, very little survived long enough to bring back any data whatsoever to the next unit to be mauled.

If you'd like a more accurate prediction of what happens with MWO-era tech vs. Clan tech, I'd refer you to Tukkayid, where the ComStar forces were mostly of a similar level of 3050-era technology.

Comstar won, by the way. Numerical superiority outweighed the Clan tech advantage in most cases, save notably the Wolves- who had the brains to take it into account, tricked the ComStar forces into treating them as if they had made the same errors as the other Clan forces, and beat them. That is, given superior numbers, the ComStar forces repeatedly lured the Clan forces into bad matchups and despite being mauled in the process, destroyed their Clan opponents and won. And it wasn't even HUGE numerical advantage. Just the brains to use that advantage to wear down the Clan force, get out of the line of fire when damaged and let a fresh 'Mech start tanking the hits, or simply by overwhelming single targets with a well-directed volume of fire.

Let someone have that Clan-level weaponry and gear if their force is starting down 5 'Mechs vs their opponent's 8, or ten vs. the opponent's 16. I can guarantee you that skill or not, even with maximum armor a Clan 'Mech is going to go down FAST if it's caught between multiple opponents. Firepower or not, a Clanner dies just as fast as anything else in the same weight class- it just bites harder while doing so. And the snowball will be already rolling down the hill as fast as fast can be in the process when they do die.

Never mind what the numerical advantage does in games like Conquest, where a 10-man group is gambling if it splits more than once that the IS side doesn't blob together and smash half their force, then mop up the rest while easily capping points as fast as the Clanners can defend.

I've played both sides of the coin. I've gotten the satisfaction from watching people who believed the same myths you do about Clanner forces have their egos shattered, and I've had my back pushed to the wall as a Clan force and come out on top by knowing that said forces have strengths AND weaknesses, not some kind of blind belief that because individual Clan 'Mechs outperform individual IS ones that the Clan unit is automatically superior to the IS one. This is untrue, in decades of play- and I've played since the first months a Clan tech readout for forces existed.

It is the myth that you, and you alone and your opponent matter. No. It's the guy who's smart enough to lure that medium around the corner so I smash it with AC/20 fire, and when it focuses on me, stabs it in the back with his scout's lasers and finishes it off. The spotter who keeps that assault TAG-targeted while dozens of LRMs rip it's face off. The one who doesn't wander off in mid-fight to chase the red dot like a cat on crack and sticks with you to find something you beat down together, completes the objective, puts the "Win" on the top of your screen vs. "LOL, I GOTS A KILL!"

The ability of "team" is the true skill-based combat in MWO. "Team" is what distinguises PUG from premade, "Company" or "Lance" vs. "bigger mob" or "smaller mob". And a larger team is a powerful advantage, powerful enough to negate an incautious force with superior technology, or weight, or firepower. For a smaller team, it becomes even more imperative to hone that skill of teamwork, because a smaller and numerically inferior team is one that is more easily shattered.

Indeed, putting Clan tech and numbers on par with IS tech simply removes the entire difference between them. There is no need for better teamwork than before, nor any real alteration of strategy for a Clan force vs. an IS one with this approach. One is the other with a slightly different coat, rather than, say, being the Clan "Protoss" to the IS "Terran".

[Tannhauser Gate]

Great information. Totally earns my Like.

[Valheru]

Going through the pages it looks like there are a lot more supporters for keeping the clans the way they're supposed to be and introducing alternative solutions rather than trying to shoehorn the balancing of the clantech into team death match and making clan tech no different from i.s. tech. In my mind it is no different from zergs vs protoss ... balance through distinct character attributes and numerical superiority.

I still cannot figure out how the clans can keep their flavor if a single innersphere mech can go toe to toe with a clan mech. If anyone clan explain it to me without resorting to exceptional situations (i..e setting off pentaglycerin with your exploding hatchetman, tackling madcats with your triple strength myomer, etc...), please do.

If we continue down this path, then we shall go down the path, but I will acknowledge these mechs as nothing but Clan in Name Only.