402 replies to this topic

[Nekki Basara]

^^^^
Yeah, it's... not what I was expecting. I should have, but I didn't.

xhrit, on 23 December 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Twelve IS mechs would not be the whole planetary defense force.

They would be more than the whole defence force for the dustball planets on the edge of the periphery that are appropriate for reveal events, as opposed to the largest battle of the Clan Invasion before Tukayyid....

xhrit, on 23 December 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

Andy Chambers

I can't say a lot about why Andy left due to NDAs, but there's a big story behind it. It has nothing to do with computer games. I can point out that the contract for Mongoose was part of the Redstar umbrella, and that even with being a designer for Blizzard he's had time to get Dust: Tactics released in the last couple of years with Fantasy Flight. He still does some fiction work for GW too I think, but it's been a year or so since I binged on Black Library stuff.

Edited by Nekki Basara, 23 December 2013 - 02:03 PM.

[Diego Angelus]

GODzillaGSPB, on 23 December 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

The new "A la Carte" option is hilariously stupid. Let's work our way from top to bottom:

1) I can take the Kit Fox for either 55$ (A la Carte) or the pack for 30$

2) I can take the Kit Fox and Nova for 100$ (A la Carte) or the pack for 60$. When I just want the Nova I save 5$ while losing the Kit Fox, a badge and a title.

3.) I can take the Kit Fox, Nova and Summoner for 135$ (A la Carte) or the pack for 90$. If I just want the Summoner I save 35$ but lose the Kit Fox, Nova, 30 days of premium, the badge and the title.

...

And so on. You can see that in the lower tiers this "A la Cart" option is a huge fail from PGI. The Kit Fox shouldn't even be available there, the pack is most likely always cheeper unless you 6 mechs via the "A la Cart" option which drops the price per mech to 30$. When you add more, you never really save money in comparison to most packs. And even if you buy higher tier single Clan mechs, you may save money, but lose considerable amount of content.

I dunno if this is hilarious, shameful, stupid or just greedy but somewhere along these lines for sure!

Its greedy they want to punish everyone that goes low so you feel bad and upgrade I would tie a rope and hang my self if I was working over there.

[xhrit]

GODzillaGSPB, on 23 December 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

And so on. You can see that in the lower tiers this "A la Cart" option is a huge fail from PGI. The Kit Fox shouldn't even be available there, the pack is most likely always cheeper unless you buy 6 mechs via the "A la Cart" option which drops the price per mech to 30$. When you add more, you never really save money in comparison to most packs. And even if you buy higher tier single Clan mechs, you may save money, but lose considerable amount of content.

No one is going to take the kit fox in a low tier package. They are going to take the Dire Wolf, Timber Wolf, or Warhawk.
Those 3 mechs cost a lot more then the kitfox, in c-bills and thus MC, using the current formula. The majority of the complaints were that people couldnt just buy a madcat by itself... now they can, at a price in line with what the post-release mech price will be.

It makes sense, from a 'maximize profit' sort of way.

Nekki Basara, on 23 December 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

^^^^
I can't say a lot about why Andy left due to NDAs, but there's a big story behind it. It has nothing to do with computer games.

I honestly dont know what happened - he never told anyone, and just sort of let his forums get overrun by spam bots and people who ragged on him for writing the worst edition of 40k ever.

[GODzillaGSPB]

xhrit, on 23 December 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

[...]
It makes sense, from a 'maximize profit' sort of way.
[...]

That much is true. It is was seems to drive every single decision PGI makes. And while a business should be about profit, one should be careful not to scare away even the most loyal customers...

[Diego Angelus]

GODzillaGSPB, on 23 December 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

That much is true. It is was seems to drive every single decision PGI makes. And while a business should be about profit, one should be careful not to scare away even the most loyal customers...

They went wrong way with it because logic dictates that if you have more players you are going to make more money and all they do is make people stop play.

[Nekki Basara]

GODzillaGSPB, on 23 December 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

That much is true. It is was seems to drive every single decision PGI makes. And while a business should be about profit, one should be careful not to scare away even the most loyal customers...

But drives badly. Lowering price increases sales. I'd probably have bought more hero mechs while playing were they not silly-expensive for really not all that interesting variants. Sarah's Jenner for tenbux? SOLD! Marmoset for near 40? Eh..... nope.

[xhrit]

Nekki Basara, on 23 December 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

But drives badly. Lowering price increases sales. I'd probably have bought more hero mechs while playing were they not silly-expensive for really not all that interesting variants. Sarah's Jenner for tenbux? SOLD! Marmoset for near 40? Eh..... nope.

This is true, but while lowering prices increases sales, it does not always increase profit. It may even reduce it.

For example, if a lamborghini costs 300,000$, and they reduce the price to 100,000$, they need to sell 3 times as many to have the same profit. If they can not guarantee a price reduction would bring in at least 4 times as many customers, then any price reduction would be counter productive, as it would not only not bring in any extra profit, but would actually cost them profit as well as devaluate their product.

Edited by xhrit, 23 December 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[Nekki Basara]

Yes but there's an inherent cost with each unit <car> which doesn't exist for unit <mek>. As an intangible product a digitally delivered game add-on is pure profit once the costs of making it just once are paid off. It's not a direct equivalence. With stuff like mechs for MWO I suspect a 50% reduction in price would end up returning significantly more than 100% more sales, but without the numbers I can't make better projections than that.

[Diego Angelus]

xhrit, on 23 December 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

This is true, but while lowering prices increases sales, it does not always increase profit. It my even reduce it.

For example, if a lamborghini costs 300,000$, and they reduce the price to 100,000$, they need to sell 3 times as many to have the same profit. If they can not guarantee a price reduction would bring in at least 4 times as many customers, then any price reduction would be counter productive, as it would not only not bring in any extra profit, but would actually devaluate their product.

You can't look at it like that this is not car industry. It costs them nothing to lower prices while increasing sale and that always results in increased profits larger the player base larger the profit but they decided that they don't want large player base and they accommodate only for whales.

Edited by Diego Angelus, 23 December 2013 - 03:45 PM.

[Kyrie]

Its odd, but PGI-IGP has always been deathly afraid of micro-transactions and low prices in general. Having embarked on a high-price strategy, they have more or less locked themselves into it. The problem becomes that you cannot really begin to lower prices without offending everyone who bought your previous content at a high price, and once lowered, prices can never rise again.

Its the kind of strategy shift that might be tolerated only once in the lifetime of the game, if that. Embracing low prices is a risky commitment having decided to cater only to the "whales".

[xhrit]

Nekki Basara, on 23 December 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

Yes but there's an inherent cost with each unit <car> which doesn't exist for unit <mek>. As an intangible product a digitally delivered game add-on is pure profit once the costs of making it just once are paid off.

The total available profit is limited to the number of players times the number of items for sale.

Diego Angelus, on 23 December 2013 - 03:44 PM, said:

It costs them nothing to lower prices while increasing sale and that always results in increased profits larger the player base larger the profit but they decided that they don't want large player base and they accommodate only for whales.

Again that is not true. There are a finite number of players, and each player can only be sold each item once. No one is going to buy more then 1 gold madcat for example. Nor is anyone going to buy more then one of each hero mech. There is a very limited selection of repeat purchase items to keep the business afloat once everyone has all the mechs.

Kyrie, on 23 December 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Having embarked on a high-price strategy, they have more or less locked themselves into it. The problem becomes that you cannot really begin to lower prices without offending everyone who bought your previous content at a high price, and once lowered, prices can never rise again.

This. Lowering prices is a risk. If it does not work, then the damage is irreparable.

Edited by xhrit, 23 December 2013 - 04:34 PM.

[Diego Angelus]

xhrit, on 23 December 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

The total available profit is limited to the number of players times the number of items for sale.



Again that is not true. There are a finite number of players, and each player can only be sold each item once. No one is going to buy more then 1 gold madcat for example. Nor is anyone going to buy more then one of each hero mech. There is a very limited selection of repeat purchase items to keep the business afloat once everyone has all the mechs.




This. Lowering prices is a risk. If it does not work, then the damage is irreparable.

I still disagree because if people don't buy you don't profit at all and cost for making those is zero. Its true that number of players is finite but how you attract people to play this game people that familiar with mechwarrior are never going to come
game itself and prices are so unfriendly and its advertised as false f2p, t it goes beyond anything I imagined in worst case scenario. That is why they turn to high prices because player base is tiny. Just see how much valve drops prices in dota 2 items (and game sell) and you will see that dropping prices can go long way if you have good player base.

[xhrit]

Diego Angelus, on 23 December 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

game itself and prices are so unfriendly and its advertised as false f2p

You lost me here.

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

[Diego Angelus]

xhrit, on 23 December 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

You lost me here.

I think we are just going to have to agree to disagree.

I tested it out trying to play f2p and it doesn't work playing with 4 mech bays is just impossible because of mastering chain. How you got lost its not that hard grasp how f2p games work (but then again not even pgi/igp gets that)

[Nekki Basara]

xhrit, on 23 December 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

The total available profit is limited to the number of players times the number of items for sale.

The number of players who can afford any given item or who consider said item worth the money rises as the price lowers. I've thrown maybe 80 or 100 euro at World of Tanks on pure impulse purchases over maybe a year and a half of regular play, and now that's just free money to them since I stopped caring at all. When considering price adjustment there are plenty of pitfalls, but when looking at price setting those pitfalls can be avoided with ease. PGI chose to set the bar high, and it hasn't worked out well for them.

[xhrit]

Diego Angelus, on 23 December 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

I tested it out trying to play f2p and it doesn't work playing with 4 mech bays is just impossible because of mastering chain. How you got lost its not that hard grasp how f2p games work (but then again not even pgi/igp gets that)

You must be using the liberal version of the word 'impossible'. While I do agree free players should have a way to earn extra mech bays, it is by no means impossible to play with only 4 mech bays. In fact 2 members of my static premade have never spent any money on this game, and they play just fine.

Here is an example of how well a f2p player can do in this game. Notice Cam's score. So beast, and in a mech that everyone says is {Scrap}.

Edited by xhrit, 23 December 2013 - 07:06 PM.

[Diego Angelus]

xhrit, on 23 December 2013 - 07:03 PM, said:

You must be using the liberal version of the word 'impossible'. While I do agree free players should have a way to earn extra mech bays, it is by no means impossible to play with only 4 mech bays. In fact 2 members of my static premade have never spent any money on this game, and they play just fine.

Here is an example of how well a f2p player can do in this game. Notice Cam's score. So beast, and in a mech that everyone says is {Scrap}.

I say impossible because playing this game for free is like working not playing. Yeah you can do good its not a problem but playing like 2-3 months(3h+ a day) for free is impossible for me and rare people who can do it have iron nerves I take my hat off to them. Playing for free is not same experience as paying that makes the problem while i enjoy game my friend struggles with mechbays selling mech he like to try new one.

[xhrit]

Diego Angelus, on 23 December 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

I say impossible because playing this game for free is like working not playing. Yeah you can do good its not a problem but playing like 2-3 months(3h+ a day) for free is impossible for me and rare people who can do it have iron nerves I take my hat off to them. Playing for free is not same experience as paying that makes the problem while i enjoy game my friend struggles with mechbays selling mech he like to try new one.

Aye, like I said, they really should have a way for players in game to earn mechbays. Ideally there would be some sort of daily quest system, that gives you three quests, and a small amount of MC for each quest you finish. They could randomize the 3 quests each player is given each day, taken from a selection of 10 or so.

Some examples :

-First victory of the day, 5MC
-10 Kills, 10MC
-25 Assists, 10MC
-5 savior kills, 10MC
-10 components destroyed, 10MC

This way, players are incentivised to play a huge number of matches each day, as well as tempted to purchase MC.

Wouldn't it be nice?

Edited by xhrit, 23 December 2013 - 08:07 PM.

[Nekki Basara]

Diego Angelus, on 23 December 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

I say impossible because playing this game for free is like working not playing. Yeah you can do good its not a problem but playing like 2-3 months(3h+ a day) for free is impossible for me and rare people who can do it have iron nerves I take my hat off to them. Playing for free is not same experience as paying that makes the problem while i enjoy game my friend struggles with mechbays selling mech he like to try new one.

The thing with F2P is that you trade money for time. It's not a problem for it to take a LONG time to achieve the same thing, but it is a problem if no amount of time will EVER achieve it. A way to earn MC via in-game activity or some other way to work towards the benefits OF MC would help, but even so the fact of the matter is that Hero mechs are still stupid expensive and not really worth grinding towards. It's really just paying money to grind Cbills faster, as opposed to these being the top-tier equipment that people strive towards. Maybe the admission of an "endgame" plan will shake this up a bit? Who knows?

[Diego Angelus]

xhrit, on 23 December 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

Aye, like I said, they really should have a way for players in game to earn mechbays. Ideally there would be some sort of daily quest system, that gives you three quests, and a small amount of MC for each quest you finish. They could randomize the 3 quests each player is given each day, taken from a selection of 10 or so.

Some examples :

-First victory of the day, 5MC
-10 Kills, 10MC
-25 Assists, 10MC
-5 savior kills, 10MC
-10 components destroyed, 10MC

This way, players are incentivised to play a huge number of matches each day, as well as tempted to purchase MC.

Wouldn't it be nice?

That would be nice !!!! but its strange that we don't have something like that already they should want new people to come to this game right I mean current system works against them.


@nekki

Its not always time they could have chosen full on vanity and leave everything for free like dota 2. I just hope to see more unified game experience between players so we can enjoy same game without having to spend lots of money on packs.

Edited by Diego Angelus, 23 December 2013 - 08:49 PM.