168 replies to this topic

[CyclonerM]

Oh, no, Jaroth Corbett starts again with his "Alexander Kerensky told us to conquer the Inner Sphere!"..

I also must say that aside from rethorics, Marack you are changing the whole foundaments of your Clan every two days. I gave you a bit of tips but you should think more about something before posting it instead of changing your mind every two days

[FireSlade]

Jaroth Corbett, on 31 December 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

{sniped}

This, long but good, reason of why I follow a mix of Warden and Crusader beliefs. No man’s words should ever be taken so literally, because when that happens people can corrupt and twist those words to suit their wants. Many great examples of that happening throughout history. So taking Kerensky’s (both Great Father and Father) words and using them to guide our actions is why I believe that we must protect the Innersphere from any and all threats; be them from some unknown source, the crusading Clans, or from the Innersphere themselves. To protect that which we are sworn to protect means that we need teeth with which to attack our foes and to push forward towards the future and any threat that may appear. This is why I chose to be a part of Clan Wolf since they have these same values; both Warden and Crusader (granted after the end of the Great Refusal War they were Crusaders, but that is for another time). To protect the Innersphere, they created the Wolf Dragoons and even Wolf in Exile. They conquered a large portion of the Innersphere faster than the Crusading Clans, through some of the most heavily defended territories. They fought on Tukkyid being the only Clan to obtain all of their objectives, Ghost Bears coming in at a close second. They did all of this so that they would be in position to keep the other Clans at bay. Besides we of the Clans could never rule the Innersphere without the corruption of the Innersphere poisoning us, like it did to the Star League and all of the leaders before.

Edited by FireSlade, 31 December 2013 - 06:34 PM.

[Uncle Totty]

Quote

Perhaps, one day, should mankind step back from the brink of the abyss, we, our children, or our children's children will return, to once more serve and protect and guide the Star League in mankind's quest for the stars.

Serve, not rule.

Protect, not punish.

Guide, not enslave.

If you want to see what "outside threat" we fight to protect the Inner Sphere from? Just look in a mirror.

[Imperius]

Bunch of nerds need to quit fighting. My Sarna-fu is better than your Sarna-fu... please... Move on let the thread die! Anyone who can make a clan is a clan.

Clan
3. A large group of relatives, friends, or associates.

[Uncle Totty]

Imperius, on 31 December 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

Bunch of nerds need to quit fighting. My Sarna-fu is better than your Sarna-fu... please... Move on let the thread die! Anyone who can make a clan is a clan.

Clan
3. A large group of relatives, friends, or associates.

Hi. You must be new to Battletech/Mech Warrior. Welcome.

[Imperius]

Nathan K, on 31 December 2013 - 09:40 PM, said:

Hi. You must be new to Battletech/Mech Warrior. Welcome.

Lol far from it, it's just sad people are fighting if his clan is clan or not. I'll have a clan here too, but I don't need or seek anyone's approval.

[Jaroth Corbett]

Nathan K, on 31 December 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Serve, not rule.

Protect, not punish.

Guide, not enslave.

If you want to see what "outside threat" we fight to protect the Inner Sphere from? Just look in a mirror.

SHOULD mankind step back from the abyss. If they did that I would be in agreement with you. Since they did not, you have no case.

Imperius, on 31 December 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

Lol far from it, it's just sad people are fighting if his clan is clan or not. I'll have a clan here too, but I don't need or seek anyone's approval.

You can call yourself Clan Lemon Tiddlywinks for all I care, but you will not be seen as, respected as, or treated as a Clan if you come with the same nonsense Marock did.

Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 01 January 2014 - 02:21 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Nathan K, on 31 December 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Serve, not rule.

Protect, not punish.

Guide, not enslave.

If you want to see what "outside threat" we fight to protect the Inner Sphere from? Just look in a mirror.

Except that it would become each of the latter statements in the case of both clan factions in short order.

The Crusaders are no more than wannabe-Goths, slavering to play out the sacking of Rome on the Inner Sphere. At least they're honest about it - not that it does them (or the IS) any good, but it is something.

The Wardens are no better - they speak of "serving and protecting", but they would in actuality make a "Stanford Prison Experiment writ large" out of the Inner Sphere, with themselves (of course!) taking the role of the "wardens" overseeing the guilded cage that would be the Inner Sphere in a Warden-dominated world.

The people of the Inner Sphere don't need either flavor of the Clans; the Inner Sphere will learn to stand on its own. There will be mistakes, true - but they will be our mistakes. To the Clans - all of them - we of the Inner Sphere say, "Get the **** out of our galaxy!"


(**The above is posted in keeping in the spirit of the thread, and is not intended to be, nor should it be taken as, an attack - neither direct nor indirect, nor explicit or implicit - against any real-world individual, group, or organization. **)

Edited by Strum Wealh, 01 January 2014 - 09:25 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Marack Drock, on 31 December 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

And you people have no knowledge of my Clan yet are ready to pass judgement without research or asking me anything. Therefore you are no different.

You do not have a Clan, you have a player-named group with the word "Clan" tacked on the front of your name that wants to be accepted by the Canon Clans that we here follow.

So, acceptance is not going to happen, mate. No amount of research is going to find your group in Canon writings or musings. Unless you find some Golden Tablets somewhere in the woods that you cannot show us or had to return.

My point of view/mantra, as a long time Blood Spirit (trying to get all of the kids playing nice) is:

"Neither Warden, nor Crusader, We are Clan"

You are none of that. "Blood Scorpion Clan" I can buy off on as a player faction in the Mercs section, but you can never be considered Clan no matter how much you argue.

[Gremlich Johns]

Marack Drock, on 01 January 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

Well then. I shall love to see when Clan SJ is annihilated and I will help that happen. I will applaud when the Clans lose on Tukayyid. I shall sing unto the heavens when the Burrocks are absorbed. I shall dance when Fire Mandrill ceases to be. I will burst with joy when Ice Hellion is reduced to almost nothing. I will stomp my feet in joy at Snow Raven's near destruction. I will parade down the streets at the Steel Viper's annihilation.

Every humiliation, annihilation, absorbtion, and dark deed that happens to you will be my joy.

Now you are just being petty and childish, proving that you lack that which we would respect.

[Pariah Devalis]

To oversimplify the situation, Marack, you come here asking to be recognized as a Clan despite having no respect for the founders of the Clans or their ways of life. Despite rejecting their legitimacy. Despite essentially all but stating that the only thing that you would like to keep from the Clans is some sort of sense of honor.

If honor is all you want, go join the Draconis Combined Mustered Soldiery.

Be Clan, or do not be Clan. There is no in between.

[Tank]

Strum Wealh, on 01 January 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Except that it would become each of the latter statements in the case of both clan factions in short order.

The Crusaders are no more than wannabe-Goths, slavering to play out the sacking of Rome on the Inner Sphere. At least they're honest about it - not that it does them (or the IS) any good, but it is something.

The Wardens are no better - they speak of "serving and protecting", but they would in actuality make a "Stanford Prison Experiment writ large" out of the Inner Sphere, with themselves (of course!) taking the role of the "wardens" overseeing the guilded cage that would be the Inner Sphere in a Warden-dominated world.

The people of the Inner Sphere don't need either flavor of the Clans; the Inner Sphere will learn to stand on its own. There will be mistakes, true - but they will be our mistakes. To the Clans - all of them - we of the Inner Sphere say, "Get the **** out of out galaxy!"

This is the only reason why I don't join Clans and will be fighting on IS side. Aside from pushing their own ways, Kerensky given birth to admirable civilization, was it intended or not in this form we have them now.

Your IS mistakes go on without an end as it you learn nothing, at least it is known that a Clans will never stab you in the back, always honor their word, never commit a g e n o c i d e on your people or at least those who dare to did this will not go unpunished, and finally they will combat your forces honorably if you have guts to do the same and respect them and their ways.

Have respect for them and you may learn solutions for those mistakes that where haunting IS for so long time.

P.S. Metaphorically speaking, you can take medicine yourself, or doctor will come and will give you a shot.

[Gyrok]

Marack Drock, on 01 January 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

Don't need what you respect. I don't need the respect of filth that breed in a metal can because they can't stand anyone weaker than a world record wrestling champ. I seriously regret putting this thread up. I shouldn't have done it and as I know that good bye. I don't need to be associated with you filth any longer. Prepare for humiliation Clanners. You lose everything!

I think you do not quite realize what your thinly veiled insults will earn you. Something inside me thinks your group will be the defending end of a Trial of Grievance, or even Annihilation, before this is all over...

[CyclonerM]

Nathan K, on 31 December 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Serve, not rule.

Protect, not punish.

Guide, not enslave.

If you want to see what "outside threat" we fight to protect the Inner Sphere from? Just look in a mirror.

This is exactly how i see the question.

@Jaroth Corbett:
SHOULD the mankind step back .. We shall return.
Mankind did not stepped back (yet).. We shall not return.

Logic, quiaff?

[Strum Wealh]

Tank, on 01 January 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

This is the only reason why I don't join Clans and will be fighting on IS side. Aside from pushing their own ways, Kerensky given birth to admirable civilization, was it intended or not in this form we have them now.

Your IS mistakes go on without an end as it you learn nothing, at least it is known that a Clans will never stab you in the back, always honor their word, never commit a g e n o c i d e on your people or at least those who dare to did this will not go unpunished, and finally they will combat your forces honorably if you have guts to do the same and respect them and their ways.

Have respect for them and you may learn solutions for those mistakes that where haunting IS for so long time.

P.S. Metaphorically speaking, you can take medicine yourself, or doctor will come and will give you a shot.

While Aleksandr's vision may have been noble and Nicholas may have had good intentions (and that is debatable ), part of the point is that the Clans as of the time of the invasion had strayed so far from those ideals that they were just as "bad" (and in some ways, perhaps worse) as the IS powers - that irony, IMO, is part of the overall character of the Clans as a whole.

Like the Vorlons and the Shadows in Babylon 5 (respectively, fairly good analogues for the Wardens and Crusaders among the Clans), the Clans have spent so long fighting in their own little microcosm over different interpretations of the same general ideology (and, as a result, perverting that same ideology) that they (outside of a very, very small number of individuals - Ulric Kerensky, most notably; the Clan-born members of Wolf's Dragoons (including Natasha Kerensky) had largely "gone native" in the IS by that point, so whether they still count as Clan from an ideological perspective is debatable) have all-but-forgotten what they were supposed to be fighting for, and seek to subjugate the IS (representing B5's "Younger Races", to continue the analogy) through the use of military force with vast technological superiority - exactly what Aleksandr sought to prevent when he led the SLDF into exile in the first place.

On top of that, the Clans' "Political Century" is so named, because the name is apt - and the actions of many during that period show that the Clans, both as individuals and as groups, are not above the very backstabbing and power games that they claim to be above, up to & including the wanton murder of civilians and the razing of a city via orbital bombardment.
Even before Turtle Bay, it turns out that the Snow Ravens had bombarded their own capital city (containing the genetic repository) on Dehra Dun from orbit, rather than it being nuked by the Wolverines (where the latter was then blamed for nuking the city, as a matter of political expediency & convenience for both the Snow Ravens and for Nicholas Kerensky; see Betrayal of Ideals by Blaine Lee Pardoe).
So much for "Clan honor"...

And just as the the Younger Races in B5 banded together and actively rejected both branches of the ideology that would be foisted upon them, the IS rose up in unity and refused both the Warden and Crusader causes.
And just as not everything was necessarily "happily ever after" afterward for the Younger Races, so to were there turbulent times ahead for the IS powers - but, again, those were the IS powers' mistakes to make and learn from, not those of the Clans to make on behalf of the IS.

So, I stand by my previous post: the Clans may be good at talking about honor & honorable conduct, but they are no better than (and, in some ways, are worse than) the Successor States in terms of actually putting it into practice; "they can talk the talk, but they can't walk the walk".

[Imperius]

Sorry but according to PGI none of you are clan wardens and none of you have the right to tell anyone if they are clan or not. So have fun trying to take the names of the so called clans you claim you own. They are already banned and used by PGI. I'll take pleasure in wiping you guys out one planet at a time. I play to win not to follow the rules of RP.

[Pariah Devalis]

Imperius, on 01 January 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

Sorry but according to PGI none of you are clan wardens and none of you have the right to tell anyone if they are clan or not. So have fun trying to take the names of the so called clans you claim you own. They are already banned and used by PGI. I'll take pleasure in wiping you guys out one planet at a time. I play to win not to follow the rules of RP.

Logic error.

Just because we cannot to be THE clan so and so does not dictate that we cannot claim to be PART OF Clan So and So. Nobody can be a Khan, per PGI's stance on no player run official factions. However, Clusters and Galaxies (so long as neither are documented in lore) are absolutely within the realm of allowable practice.

Ergo, you can still be a Warden or Crusader, as part of a Cluster or Galaxy that belongs to a Warden or Crusader Clan.

[Imperius]

Pariah Devalis, on 01 January 2014 - 11:52 AM, said:

Logic error.

Just because we cannot to be THE clan so and so does not dictate that we cannot claim to be PART OF Clan So and So. Nobody can be a Khan, per PGI's stance on no player run official factions. However, Clusters and Galaxies (so long as neither are documented in lore) are absolutely within the realm of allowable practice.

Ergo, you can still be a Warden or Crusader, as part of a Cluster or Galaxy that belongs to a Warden or Crusader Clan.

So you understand that he can be clan if he wants just like you. Good talk! We have nothing further to discuss.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Marack Drock, on 01 January 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

Don't need what you respect. I don't need the respect of filth that breed in a metal can because they can't stand anyone weaker than a world record wrestling champ. I seriously regret putting this thread up. I shouldn't have done it and as I know that good bye. I don't need to be associated with you filth any longer. Prepare for humiliation Clanners. You lose everything!

I am pretty sure Marack is a teenager based on the way he writes, debates and rants near the end here. Nothing wrong with teenagers, but the hallmarks of the demographic in this are notable.

He and his 2 person unit/clan will have a great time in IS "hunting down" all of us evil Clanners (mind you it is all pixels, so we will be back in the very next drop). And of course he will be back to this thread to defend himself from my comments here as his nerd-rage prevents him from doing as he says and merely moving on, lol.

[Pariah Devalis]

Again, big fat logic error.

Clans, as defined by the context of Battletech and Mechwarrior Online are a specific TYPE of faction that follows a specific mindset and lore. Marack can go ahead and make a band of Pirates, Merc Unit, House Unit, merry band of heavily armed men who pilfer from the rich and give to the poor, but under the explanations and viewpoints he himself has stated, Marack Drock himself denied himself the option to be a "Clan."

He made this thread asking for acceptance as a Clan, by us, given his unit's ideals. That is a no. There was never any question of it. What he proposes simply is not Clan.


Edit:

Specifically, the error you keep making is one of false equivalencies. Look up what makes a "Clan" in Battletech and Mechwarrior. A key common denominator is a sense of reverence or at least extreme respect for the Kerenskys. No matter how extreme the internal atmosphere of a clan is, they all respect them. Layered on top, the Honor, the metric unit construction, the caste system, the pseudo-meritocracy. Only the shallowest level is the tech.

Edit Edit:

He can claim from now until doomsday that he is part of Clan Blood Scorpion. That will not make him a legitimate clan by anyone else's expectations. To Clans, he would be a Dark Caste organization.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 01 January 2014 - 12:25 PM.