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Have You Been Told That A Medium Mech Is Not Welcome In The Team ?


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#61 NRP

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:47 AM

I don't think I've ever been told my mech isn't "welcome" in game. It's should be intuitively obvious that one should ignore any individual who would say something like this.

To be honest, I find that the overwhelming majority of people in game are pretty cool. Sure you run into an angry tryhard every once in a while, but for the most part everyone seems pretty tolerant.

#62 Amsro

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 09:57 AM

NONE of my Medium Mechs sport an AC20, I use the speed to succeed! Or a Gauss Rifle. :lol:

Trebs may not be the best mech, but I'm pretty deadly in them. :o

Good matches in Medium mechs means your blood is pumping and the adrenaline is flowing! Those battles cannot afford errors! :D

Edited by Amsro, 28 December 2013 - 10:19 AM.


#63 Myomes

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:35 AM

View PostRaso, on 28 December 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:


This one sentence sums up everything wrong with this game and it's community in a nutshell. When people get it in their heads that armor and bigger guns is a superior alternative to tactics and maneuvering and people people play by that creed what you're left with is 2 teams of uniform load outs battling over who can adhere to the game's meta more accurately.

Mediums work fine in pugs. Enjoy your 12 sterile, predictable 12v12 Highlander Warrior Online.


Much teen angst, So anger, wow.

The same thing would've happened in any previous MW title if heat was as punishing as it is in this game. Its even more punishing than tabletop battletech. TT:BT would have also been all assaults if not for the repair and supply costs of running those mechs, for the same reason you dont stick XL on every mech in TT either. Losses of those expensive stuff is much too costly.

#64 Myomes

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:38 AM

View PostAmsro, on 28 December 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Those battles cannot afford errors! :D


By contrast, you imply heavier mechs can afford errors, which means more forgiving, which means they are tactically a better option. Even bruce lee wrote about going for the eyes and groin and other stuff in a real fight you'd never see in a movie or mock fight such as "MMA", because he recognized that purposely limiting your tools was strategically bad for any real conflict.

In much the same way, you may prefer the bravado that comes from running around in a medium mech, but that doesn't make it's shortcomings any less plain to see.

Edited by Myomes, 28 December 2013 - 10:41 AM.


#65 Amsro

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:47 AM

View PostMyomes, on 28 December 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:


By contrast, you imply heavier mechs can afford errors, which means more forgiving, which means they are tactically a better option.


That is the unfortunate truth behind the medium mechs currently. Less armor/firepower then Assaults/Heavies with less speed then lights.

Its a small price to pay for some entertaining play time!

Winning in this game is even MORE satisfying when you should be losing! :D

Edit; Not tactically a better or worse option though. That relies entirely on play style.

2nd Edit; 12 Assaults would obviously be a boon to your team vs a lighter mixed team... but that's just boring. :o

Edited by Amsro, 28 December 2013 - 10:52 AM.


#66 fluffypinkbunny

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:53 AM

I don't have a screen shot, but i'm sure humpingbunny has seen my name around and my hunchback.

View PostHumpingBunny, on 27 December 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

I am glad I found this thread, especially since I almost always drive heavies and mediums. I only read the first post of this thread, but here is my take on mediums. Medium 'Mechs are the workhorses of the battle field. They are a well balanced platform of speed, armor and firepower and in the right hands, can be very devastating. Some of the best wolf packs consist of medium 'Mechs. Here is just one example of which:

Posted Image

A full lance of only medium 'Mechs with 10 kills and the highest damage of any lance in the match, yet barely weighing in at over 200 tons collectively. I witnessed a PUG say "Ton the f*ck up", so I had to post my two cents.


#67 luxebo

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:57 AM

View PostMyomes, on 27 December 2013 - 08:02 PM, said:

The Trial Mechs are not representative of Stock mechs. They are all double heat sinked (because PGI ruined heat dissipation mechanics, and being shutdown 24/7 would ruin newbie retention as SHS don't work), and they try to take advantage of a specific range setting. The Blackjack is probably the most cheesy trial mech available, and is not representative of medium mechs as a whole.


I agree. That Blackjack is so cheesy that it actually allowed me to get over 1k of damage for once. Centurion was better though, fast flanker that just went in and out, skirmishing and destroying plenty of stuff, but not cheesy.

#68 Amsro

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:58 AM

View PostMyomes, on 28 December 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:


By contrast, you imply heavier mechs can afford errors, which means more forgiving, which means they are tactically a better option. Even bruce lee wrote about going for the eyes and groin and other stuff in a real fight you'd never see in a movie or mock fight such as "MMA", because he recognized that purposely limiting your tools was strategically bad for any real conflict.

In much the same way, you may prefer the bravado that comes from running around in a medium mech, but that doesn't make it's shortcomings any less plain to see.


Seriously, no one is getting any awards or prizes in this game, no need for the "bring the best or go away" concepts.

That type of thinking will only exacerbate the AssaultWarriorOnline meme. I can be AS effective as ANY of my assaults and heavies but ONLY with extreme situational awareness.

Its an art that should be honored instead of frowned upon. Once tonnage limits are in the amazing Medium mech pilots will be a boon to ANY team.

#69 Myomes

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:59 AM

View Postfluffypinkbunny, on 28 December 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

I don't have a screen shot, but i'm sure humpingbunny has seen my name around and my hunchback.

View Postfluffypinkbunny, on 28 December 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

I don't have a screen shot, but i'm sure humpingbunny has seen my name around and my hunchback.


gee, AC20 boat, watta surprise.....

View PostAmsro, on 28 December 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Seriously, no one is getting any awards or prizes in this game, no need for the "bring the best or go away" concepts.

That type of thinking will only exacerbate the AssaultWarriorOnline meme. I can be AS effective as ANY of my assaults and heavies but ONLY with extreme situational awareness.

Its an art that should be honored instead of frowned upon. Once tonnage limits are in the amazing Medium mech pilots will be a boon to ANY team.


"I can be as effective!!"
"with an inferior machine!'

the cognitive dissonance in this alone was the comedy worth the trip to the forums today.

#70 DrnkJawa

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:59 AM

Killing people in a medium is kinda like this "imagine what i would do to you if i had a real mech!" atleast by their standarts, still theres something about driving a medium that just makes you go on and on and on

#71 Amsro

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:11 AM

View PostMyomes, on 28 December 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:


gee, AC20 boat, watta surprise.....



"I can be as effective!!"
"with an inferior lighter machine!'

the cognitive dissonance in this alone was the comedy worth the trip to the forums today.


Not inferior, only lighter. By your logic light mechs are also gimping the team.
Dude WTF is a "medium mech AC20 boat?"

So you suck with medium mechs, we get it. You still won't convince anyone that they are playing the game wrong.

Seriously, stop tryharding. :D

Edited by Amsro, 28 December 2013 - 11:18 AM.


#72 Raso

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:24 AM

View PostAmsro, on 28 December 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Dude WTF is a "medium mech AC20 boat?"

So you suck with medium mechs, we get it. You still won't convince anyone that they are playing the game wrong.

Seriously, stop tryharding. :D


To the try-hard, doing anything anything less than using what they deem the very best not only makes no sense o them but is indicative of an inherent mental illness that separates the "winners" from the "losers". Fun is a function of Victories X (Efficiency - (Time + Effort)). The faster and cheeper the victory the better and that is all that matters. While I don't see the "fun" in ANY of that it's what gets their rocks off, so more power to them I guess.

The question is: "Should I feel bad and be guilted for playing the game the way I enjoy playing it?" And the answer is a resounding "No. Never!" becasue at the end of the day it's just a meaningless, fracking video game and if it stops being fun then you should step away and ask yourself if it's worth the time and grief it gives you.

If you need me, I'll be derping around in my LBX10 Victor on Skirmish mode with 11 other random dudes having fun (or maybe some Warframe since I just got a steam message from a friend because lol co-op)

#73 Myomes

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:26 AM

I understand that you have SPS, but you must recognize that an inferior force must necessarily lose to a superior one, all other things equal. If you can kill newbs in your mediums, good for you.

Quote

10. Hence, though an obstinate fight may be made by a small force, in the end it must be captured by the larger force.


If you field all mediums and the other team fields all assaults, they have double the tonnage, so double the armor and weapons. That is a "larger force" even though its still 12v12. Force multiplication laws being in effect.

I find it pretty hilarious that you'll even try to argue that medium mechs are as effective against an all assault group that coordinates well. Again, I refer you to the fact that even in tabletop BT, Battle Value was a metric conceived to make fights fair, so that mediums could slug it out with assaults due to superior numbers through lower BV, and tonnage limit or other metrics are on their way in MW:O, to further equalize the game.

In the same breath you recognize that this is important for balancing the game, yet deny that it's because its out of balance (read: heavier mechs = king).

That is what I find truly hilarious.

View PostRaso, on 28 December 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:


To the try-hard, doing anything anything less than using what they deem the very best not only makes no sense o them but is indicative of an inherent mental illness that separates the "winners" from the "losers". Fun is a function of Victories X (Efficiency - (Time + Effort)). The faster and cheeper the victory the better and that is all that matters. While I don't see the "fun" in ANY of that it's what gets their rocks off, so more power to them I guess.

The question is: "Should I feel bad and be guilted for playing the game the way I enjoy playing it?" And the answer is a resounding "No. Never!" becasue at the end of the day it's just a meaningless, fracking video game and if it stops being fun then you should step away and ask yourself if it's worth the time and grief it gives you.

If you need me, I'll be derping around in my LBX10 Victor on Skirmish mode with 11 other random dudes having fun (or maybe some Warframe since I just got a steam message from a friend because lol co-op)


Faster and cheaper only matters with limited resources. For now, mechs and weapons are infinite resources. They are perfect at the start, and you can never be out of them no matter how badly you lost a previous match.

Faster and Cheaper is only a rule for limited resources. Hence why you're wrong.

There's no problem in "having fun YOUR way", but teamkilling is against the rules when some people have fun that way, and taking an all flamer mech that dies and does nothing WILL **** off your teammates.

Edited by Myomes, 28 December 2013 - 11:28 AM.


#74 Molossian Dog

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:28 AM

You guys make it more complicated than it has to be.

You are having fun in your Medium?
Yes = excellent!
No = go play something else.

That is all there is to say. Anything else is just comparing your E-private parts.
(And since everyone measures alone and comes here and tells what he measured, this is not going to lead anywhere)

Edited by Molossian Dog, 28 December 2013 - 11:30 AM.


#75 NoThreat

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:36 AM

View PostMolossian Dog, on 28 December 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

You guys make it more complicated than it has to be.

You are having fun in your Medium?
Yes = excellent!
No = go play something else.

That is all there is to say. Anything else is just comparing your E-private parts.
(And since everyone measures alone and comes here and tells what he measured, this is not going to lead anywhere)


This is the only answer that is valid. Its a game so enjoy it. And if thats in a med so be it.

#76 Amsro

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:39 AM

View PostMyomes, on 28 December 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

I understand that you have SPS, but you must recognize that an inferior force must necessarily lose to a superior one, all other things equal. If you can kill newbs in your mediums, good for you.

If you field all mediums and the other team fields all assaults, they have double the tonnage, so double the armor and weapons. That is a "larger force" even though its still 12v12. Force multiplication laws being in effect.

I find it pretty hilarious that you'll even try to argue that medium mechs are as effective against an all assault group that coordinates well. Again, I refer you to the fact that even in tabletop BT, Battle Value was a metric conceived to make fights fair, so that mediums could slug it out with assaults due to superior numbers through lower BV, and tonnage limit or other metrics are on their way in MW:O, to further equalize the game.

In the same breath you recognize that this is important for balancing the game, yet deny that it's because its out of balance (read: heavier mechs = king).

That is what I find truly hilarious.


SPS? More ForumWarriors that resort to some belittleing/personal attacks to make their "point".

Nice work!

The truth is when I take my medium mechs out, I end up against quite skilled players. The your only good vs newbs concept is another fallacy, usually the "newbs" are on my side to even the playing field.

I've been "out tonned" MANY times, matchmaker loves to find the same class mechs to team me up with and those are the most satisfying wins.!

I still don't get your point nor understand your amusment that medium mechs can be deadly in the right hands.

Obviously its much easier to ROLFstomp in my DakkaMaster, that in no way justifies belittling players for bringing the mech they choose.

#77 Myomes

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 11:43 AM

Quote

I still don't get your point nor understand your amusment that medium mechs can be deadly in the right hands.

Obviously its much easier to ROLFstomp in my DakkaMaster


the contradiction says it all.

#78 NRP

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:18 PM

So a Hunchie 4G is an "AC/20 boat"?

LOL, okay. I guess.

#79 YueFei

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 02:30 PM

Medium mechs have superior strategic speed over Heavies. Unfortunately most of the maps are too small / restrictive, and there's a lack of objectives.

Lawrence of Arabia triumphed by outmaneuvering his foes, not by outfighting them toe-to-toe (he couldn't take them head-on).

If we had a real theater of operations, with actual bases, air fields, munitions depots, artillery batteries, supply convoys, etc., you'd see Mediums are able to take advantage of that.

Already you can see this dynamic in Conquest on larger maps. 12 enemy Assaults try to put 1 lance at each base to hold 3 bases? Swarm 1 with all 12 Mediums, they'll get there before the slow enemy Assaults can arrive to reinforce their buddies. The Assaults split into 2 groups of 6? They can only hold 2 bases at a time. If they attack one of the bases you're holding, scout, count, and run away and cap the base they vacated. The Assaults attack Theta? Leave Theta, and take Gamma.

Now imagine a game mode that replaces those stupid "oil rig" bases with actual bases. Sortie your Mediums out to harass and call in strikes on the enemy Assault mechs. Break off into 2 groups to attack the enemy Airfield and Artillery batteries simultaneously... only to find that both bases are being defended by 1 lance each of Assault mechs? No problem, have the group that was tasked with attacking the Airfield break off and join the attack on the Artillery battery, outnumbering the local defenders. Smash through, destroy your target, and then run away before the enemy Lance that was defending the Airfield can arrive.

Edited by YueFei, 28 December 2013 - 02:36 PM.


#80 Molossian Dog

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 03:41 PM

Sadly, what you describe is the game many of us were hoping for, not the one we have or will get.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 28 December 2013 - 03:42 PM.






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