219 replies to this topic

[Klappspaten]

Its not in the rules because I decided very late about that.
But I told each team about the points on TS right before the games.

[8Ball-]

Might want to look at the rule set before any more events. IMO, either all kills should count as points or all clear losses count as zero with the winner getting kill credits. Actual KvK ties could get kill point credits. Inadvertently it seems we are rewarding running from a loss and punishing people that fight it out for the chance at a win.

[Klappspaten]

WW8Ball, on 03 February 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

Might want to look at the rule set before any more events. IMO, either all kills should count as points or all clear losses count as zero with the winner getting kill credits. Actual KvK ties could get kill point credits. Inadvertently it seems we are rewarding running from a loss and punishing people that fight it out for the chance at a win.

An example:

One team wins 3 times and loses 2 times without taking out an enemy.
An other team loses 5 times. But they destroy 3 mechs each.

If I would award points despite a loss the team that won 3 times would get lesser points than the other team.
That is why you dont get points if you lose all 4 mechs.

[Klappspaten]

I actually thought about that.
But how to define a clear loss?

As soon as we are through with the tournament I will be able to look at how the rules worked and if they did what we wanted them to do. And then adjust them for future events.

Edit: Damn I sound like PGI

Edited by Klappspaten, 03 February 2014 - 12:33 PM.

[Reno Blade]

Yeah, i guess getting 0 on loss, # of kills on win or draw would work, but winning then is not as important as to survive, right?
if win gave 5 points, you at least would get more than just 4 kills.

[Jarl Dane]

Running a tournament like this, with the pathetic tools PGI provides us, is a monstrous undertaking. Blue Vengeance has a lot on their plate right now. Add to this the language barrier, as English is not their native tongue, and you only increase the problems exponentially.

This is tough. Are there things they did I wouldn't have done? Yes. But that is also a good thing. One thing they did was the weight limit of 235. At first I was annoyed with this at it meant my team could not run the same load out as the Yule tournament. Almost seemed impossible to bring an atlas to a match. But we adjusted as best we could and showed up on Saturday to fight. And I discovered how interesting and much more dynamic that weight limit made the tournament.

That has become my favorite thing. Seeing what sort of lance compositions teams bring. What creative mech combinations people have come up with in response to 235 weight limit. I find it exciting. I hope future tournaments emulate this requirement instead of the Yule one (one mech of each weight class).

So I am glad for different. This is BVs tourney, we signed up for it and we'll respect their rules. I hope our tournaments continue to evolve and grow. To only get better and more exciting with time. To not be afraid to discard old things and try new ones.

If you have ideas about how things should be done differently, then I hope you see that as an invitation for you to run the next tournament or event in this vein.

I know Blue Vengeance is swamped right now. I have total respect for people who pull off this kind of event. Not to mention somehow manage twitch.tv coverage on top of it! I salute you BV, keep up the good work.

Edited by Mech The Dane, 03 February 2014 - 12:58 PM.

[Isabelle]

As the raven pilot from the previously mentioned match, I do agree that the way points are awarded does encourage running from a complete loss (all 4 mechs destroyed). That being said, I can't really think of a scoring method that doesn't fall into 1 of 3 categories.

1. All or Nothing (A win gets points a loss gets nothing, there are no draws/partial points for close matches, this was the Yule Tournament scoring essentially)
2. Potential for losses to score higher than teams that win some matches (points awarded for kills, see Klappspaten's post above)
3. Encouraging running from a complete loss (zero points if your team loses all 4, current points system)

Now I know it's just a video game, and that most of you might disagree with me (including most of the Isengrim), but why should i be encouraged to throw my mech and "life" away for what is to be an almost certain loss? In any sort of a real situation where you are significantly outnumbered (3 to 1) and don't have a significant technological or positioning advantage, retreating is clearly the best option.

Anyhow, thank you Blue Vengeance for hosting this tournament. I know it's a lot of work, but it is also very enjoyable.

Lastly, to Mindwyrm, my compliments to whoever was piloting the centurion that match, as they are a good shot and very nearly got me when they found me in the cave.

[Klappspaten]

The second day of the tournament brought new fights and a lot of action. We added a second stream, so we could shorten the waiting times for the teams and still stream every match.
But just as on the first day, on the second we had one Group that went really well, and another group that suffered from missmatches and disconnects.
We even had some technical issues with the second stream channel and lost the replays of the whole group.

But now, better late than never, to the standings after the first weekend of the tournament!




We have 2 teams that are already in the finals. Both of them reached the sweet spot of 4 victories, or 16 points. And nothing can happen that could keep them out. Congratulations for the Dudesclub - Verteidiger des Teppichs and the Isengrim Jarlsguard, both teams have been relentless.

But we have a lot of teams that are still in the race for the finals. And I mean A LOT!
ALL the teams in group one are still in the race, most of them have 3 or even 4 matches to go and nobody is save.

In group two we have 3 teams with equal scores. My own team is one of them and we wil fight the other two on friday, so expect some mean business.

In group 3 the Skjaldborg team of StalaggtIKE holds second place, but the 1st RDR and Beep Boop Pew Pew are on their tail. They both still hold slim chances to reach the finals and they sure are eager to take them.

And in group 4, where we had no less than 2 draws on saturday, scores are still low and we have a lot of matches to come, expect things to move on saturday!

[Klappspaten]

Some personal thoughts:

This whole tournament is mainly Mech the Danes fault. He made the Yule tournament in december, I had shitloads of fun in it and wanted more. And since nobody was doing another tournament I decided to organize one myself.

I didn´t want to just copy the Yule, but I also didn´t want to make something completely different.
It was and still is a lot of work. But that we only had one team that didn´t show up, and that you guys have your thoughts about it and discuss it shows me that I must have done something right.

Mech The Dane, on 03 February 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

One thing they did was the weight limit of 235. At first I was annoyed with this at it meant my team could not run the same load out as the Yule tournament. Almost seemed impossible to bring an atlas to a match. But we adjusted as best we could and showed up on Saturday to fight. And I discovered how interesting and much more dynamic that weight limit made the tournament.

The weight limit was designed to make it tough to chose wich Mechs to bring. I really liked the one of each rule in the Yule but I wanted to give the teams more liberties in tactics and combinations. We literally thought about this for hours and hours, calculating the possible combinations. And we still got surprised.
I think the results show not only the skill of the pilots, but which teams really got their heads around the question what mechs to take and how to combine their loadouts.
I want you guys to play smart.

Isabelle, on 03 February 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

As the raven pilot from the previously mentioned match, I do agree that the way points are awarded does encourage running from a complete loss (all 4 mechs destroyed). That being said, I can't really think of a scoring method that doesn't fall into 1 of 3 categories.

1. All or Nothing (A win gets points a loss gets nothing, there are no draws/partial points for close matches, this was the Yule Tournament scoring essentially)
2. Potential for losses to score higher than teams that win some matches (points awarded for kills, see Klappspaten's post above)
3. Encouraging running from a complete loss (zero points if your team loses all 4, current points system)

The point system is actually from last weeks wednesday, and it is one of the decisions I am not really happy about.
Just like the bracket system on binarybeast, it was the least unfit system available, but it is still unfit and I should have made something of my own. Would have been more work in the making but to make do with the brackets is so much more work than that.

When I got to Blue Vengeance I honestly wasnt´so happy about them being FRR, but I really like our community and the whole tournament thing is to contribute to it.
I already have plans for when we have lobbies and private matches.
And if anybody wants to make a tournament themselves I will be happy to help out with the expieriences I gather in making this one.

Edited by Klappspaten, 03 February 2014 - 02:17 PM.

[Jarl Dane]

Klappspaten, on 03 February 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Some personal thoughts:

This whole tournament is mainly Mech the Danes fault. He made the Yule tournament in december, I had shitloads of fun in it and wanted more. And since nobody was doing another tournament I decided to organize one myself.

=D all my fault.
It is a great tournament, it is good for the community, and it does give us more to do then just grind away or fight the Templars 8 poptarting 'mechs in 12 mans.

It's a tough thing to do though, and it left me way burnt out when it was over. I hope that once your tournament concludes other teams pick up the torch and host the next one. I'd actually like to see a Shieldwall hosted tournament.

[Klappspaten]

There are basically two major issues that make it so stressfull.

1. No Lobbies, no private matches, and synchdrops. Once that comes things will get way easier, and we at blue vengeance already have plans for that.

2. The timedifference. But I didn´t want to exclude anybody, exclusion sucks

[Jump Gunnington]

Klappspaten, on 03 February 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

There are basically two major issues that make it so stressfull.

1. No Lobbies, no private matches, and synchdrops. Once that comes things will get way easier, and we at blue vengeance already have plans for that.

2. The timedifference. But I didn´t want to exclude anybody, exclusion sucks

Well thank you for going through the trouble, even with these difficulties. The Tournament has been a blast so far, and I can't wait to get my AC rounds flying in the next set of rounds!

[fiskarsmurfen]

As a part of Mindwyrms team I am happy that it is the points in the post above that count and not the ones on Binarybeast. I am still a bit bitter however that that which felt like an epic victory officially counts as a draw. I agree with what others have posted that these rules may not be the best but I can still respect them and try and motivate myself for the final two rounds so that we may have a hope of advancing.

[Klappspaten]

fiskarsmurfen, on 03 February 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

As a part of Mindwyrms team I am happy that it is the points in the post above that count and not the ones on Binarybeast. I am still a bit bitter however that that which felt like an epic victory officially counts as a draw. I agree with what others have posted that these rules may not be the best but I can still respect them and try and motivate myself for the final two rounds so that we may have a hope of advancing.

Yes I find it rather unpleasant that I didn´t see that issue earlier.
But you still have 2 matches to go. With scores as close as in your group anything remains possible.

[fluffypinkbunny]

I will host a tournament when the game is ready for tournaments. Others in the shieldwall might try to do it before, but I can't speak for them.

[Jarl Dane]

fluffypinkbunny, on 03 February 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

I will host a tournament when the game is ready for tournaments. Others in the shieldwall might try to do it before, but I can't speak for them.

I understand. These sorts of undertakings are difficult and require a very dedicated and hard working unit to see through. I thought since your group seemed the most vocal, they'd be the most willing to take the responsibility themselves. Perhaps another team will step up who can handle the hurdles involved and sponsor our next Tournament.

Once this one ends I'll ask around.

[fluffypinkbunny]

fluffypinkbunny, on 03 February 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

I will host a tournament when the game is ready for tournaments. Others in the shieldwall might try to do it before, but I can't speak for them.

Mech The Dane, on 03 February 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

I understand. These sorts of undertakings are difficult and require a very dedicated and hard working unit to see through. I thought since your group seemed the most vocal, they'd be the most willing to take the responsibility themselves. Perhaps another team will step up who can handle the hurdles involved and sponsor our next Tournament.

Once this one ends I'll ask around.

No where in my sentence did I say I was speaking for my group, infact I said I AM NOT speaking for my group. Please stop putting words in my mouth thanks. Others in the Shieldwall MIGHT run their own tournaments, with three times your reported active players in numbers, and at least two active companies who showed up to the BV team speak. I am sure not speaking for everybody. Just because one officer says she won't be doing something, doesn't mean ALL of us aren't. I would suggest asking others in the Shieldwall if you are so interested in getting them to run one.

[White Panther]

fluffypinkbunny, on 03 February 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

I will host a tournament when the game is ready for tournaments. Others in the shieldwall might try to do it before, but I can't speak for them.

It takes effort and patience, things that not everyone is willing to give apparently. However there are player run tournaments going on right now and generally speaking people have a lot of fun. There are a lot of live streams you can check out in the various leagues to get a general feel of the atmosphere.

Many of the player run leagues/tournaments are now in third season already even without lobbies ATM. Game isn't ready for tounaments? Says who? you?

[Surtr]

White Panther, on 03 February 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

It takes effort and patience, things that not everyone is willing to give apparently. However there are player run tournaments going on right now and generally speaking people have a lot of fun. There are a lot of live streams you can check out in the various leagues to get a general feel of the atmosphere.

Many of the player run leagues/tournaments are now in third season already even without lobbies ATM. Game isn't ready for tounaments? Says who? you?

Well to be fair the type of play SJ does (from what I've seen) is a bit different

But you are correct, tournaments are possible with the dedication and will to have them succeed!

[Jarl Dane]

Indeed. With a little dedication and vision, all is possible.

I do hope next week BV has a few english announcers though, would be fun to understand a little more of what they are saying on twitch tv.