129 replies to this topic

[Zordicron]

So, lately I have been seeing these things all over the place. They are annoying. So, I decided, wth, lets go make one and see what the fuss is about.

I have run jagers before, I had all of them mastered, EXCEPT the S, which I never bought. So I bought it.

2 AC20's
XL300 I borrowed from my Fang
Added DHS, endo
Maxxed the armor on torsos, I think I have like 30 some odd on arms and legs.
like 7 tons of ammo or something. I added ZERO additional DHS to loadout.
This put me at the 65 ton limit.

First match ever in my Jager S, 0/8 Basic unlocked.

4 kills, 4 assist, shy of 400 dmg. We win by landslide. I survived with yellow internals showing on arm and one torso, orange armor other places. 100% PUG.

"But there are tradeoffs Eld! That thing runs really hot!

NO. With 10 DHS, I had no issue firing 2 salvos off. Obviously, with a weapon that has a long cooldown like an AC20, you arent going to tand in the open and shoot non stop. you are going to get in a position to flank a foe, and then BANG, and then fade to avoid return fire. Hot? I ran this match, the first one on Tourmaline without even a single basic unlocked. The heat penalty is non existent, OR, I can not even imaging what this thing was like before they put it in.

"But the XL engine needed for speed makes you really fragile Eld!"

NO. Not any more then the XL Jagers I ran on the other 2 variants( DD and FB) infact probably less so, as the intimidation factor once you hit a would be attacker is catastropihic to their ambitions. There is no point in having much back armor, not in an in your face mech like this, so I frontloaded almost all of it. Somthing gets behind me, its prolly my fault anyway, and if something trys to tickle me like that, I just turn around, and OH snap.


There is no downside to this thing, it is a no skill= kill machine. I am not some uber l33t player either, but I do not suxx, and my field awareness is higher then most.

PGI, recode your autocannons to multishot. It's likely the only way you will ever solve this point/bang/dead issue we have with AC20, and lord knows how you guys plan on making a clan UAC20 work if you dont. I have made other posts about that subject, and how to make it work similar to missile tubes, so I wont go into it here.

[Bhael Fire]

Just keep running it...you'll eventually get matched with people that know how to play and you'll see why an AC/40 Jag isn't as easy as you think.

[Zordicron]

Yeah yeah, I am obviously playing all n00bs right?

match 2

Alpine. Unlocked both heat basics and arm reflex for fun with my XP (x2) from match one.

Walked down ravine towards enemy. Killed T bolt that tried to come down the slopes to me. Marched directly into enemy squad like I see others do, Killed Phract and exposed internals on a Victor before they focused me down. WORST TACTICS I CAN CONCEIVE, GOT 2 KILLS.

[Bhael Fire]

In all probability, yes. Most competent players know how to dispatch them relatively easily.

[Tezcatli]

The other night I had my Yen Lo Wang's AC20 arm sheared off by one shot of an AC40 Jaeger. So glad I was twisting and going around a corner when it happened. At that point it was about cover and distance. But the thing is. If you round a corner and it's an AC40. You're done unless you're a light. ;o

There's also two perspectives at play. The solo player who gets that unfortunate scenario. And the group that can use instant communication and coordinate to either focus fire or harass the AC40. There's also the AC40 working with a group, which is the most dangerous in my opinion.

[Zordicron]

Match 3. Caustic. Went all out, almost killed myself through OH dmg, ignored any semblence of heat managemnt though to do it. Shawk almost killed me during one OH episode, but when I started up I blew the armor off it's CT so it turned and tried to fade back and team mate killed it. 450 dmg, 2 kills and some assist. Killed a battlemaster and orion, blew the armor off a dragon, lights on my team ran after it to finish it. Exposed internals on a BJ, and a Shawk. We win 12-3. My mech was in poor shape, expectedly so with all the OH I did and wreckless abandonment towards heat management.

[The Flying Gecko]

My Ac/40 Jager has a much lower KDR then either my Jenner or my Atlas

[Bhael Fire]

Eldagore, on 29 December 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

450 dmg, 2 kills and some assist.

Is that an unusually high damage/kill/assist rate for you?

Are you saying that you are performing better in the AC/40 than any of your other mechs?

Edited by Bhael Fire, 29 December 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[Bagheera]

Eldagore, on 29 December 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Yeah yeah, I am obviously playing all n00bs right?

Not all, but enough density of low to average to "almost good" players that you're still having these matches.

I'll check back in a day or two and read the "Match XX. Rounded a corner thinking I had the jump on a squad. Side-cored immediately upon exposure."

It's kinda funny when it happens. Get a new mech and if you consistently do well with it there comes a point where you hit some really good players (for reference, I fit in the "average" category) and then you get smoked.

[Selfish]

I like the multi-shot mechanic in concept, but when it comes to implementation using the LB10 mechanic is just the low hanging fruit. Change the word "Tubes" into "Choke", give each B hardpoint a number, and when AC/s are higher than that number have them shotgun effect the difference like the LB10. e.g. 10 Choke Ballistics slot with an AC/20 fitted will fire 2 pellets of 10 damage each. Then you just tweak spread to reduce the effective range of pellets as necessary.

As for 2x AC/20 Jagers, I've run them before and after ghost heat. They're very manageable, and one of the most heat efficient options left for 40 burst. It's cooler than 2x PPC + AC/20, but lacks JJs. You already know the reasons players state for why they aren't popular. I assure you they're incredibly fragile and severely under-ranged. An AC/40 Jager has issues fighting anything 350+ meters away, which is easily exploited by any non-stationary mech with Medium Lasers.

[Motroid]

It's a sledgehammer build. When caught off guard you are toast, but thats true for many loadouts.
It performs "best" as long as your info didn't spread around the enemy team. As soon as it does every decent mechwarrior will keep an eye at you and you lost your surprising momentum. Once identified by the other team your chances of survival decrease.
Furthermore JM7s by chassis/hitboxes/shiloutte can't bear XL engines. AC40 have to for the speed, but that nearly cuts their durability to half since every mechwarrior and their mothers go for the sidetorsos on JM7s. Which are really easy to target.
By lore I would say the twin AC/20 JM7s are Solahma mechs for the final ride to grant their ageing mechwarrior an honourable death.

[Artgathan]

I've never really had trouble dispatching AC/40 Jagers in my Medium / Light mechs (unless they were an exception shot or got lucky). While they're scary to face when I'm in a damage mech (especially with my XL engines), they have extremely broad side torsos which are easy to destroy.

[R Razor]

Hit the nail on the head, it's a toss up between the AC-40 Jags and mass volley LRM boats as to which is the ultimate easymode mech. All are generally fielded by newish players or players that lack tactical skills and prefer to kill either from a distance without seeing the enemy while relying on their team to lock targets for them, or by a one button click with 40 point of pinpoint damage.

Either way they are players that PGI wants playing the game so don't anticipate any drastic changes anytime soon.

[Zordicron]

Bhael Fire, on 29 December 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

Is that an unusually high damage/kill/assist rate for you?

Are you saying that you are performing better in the AC/40 than any of your other mechs?

LOL context? Do you need reading comprehension help?

In that match, I litterally ignored all heat completely. As in, start up, shoot, shut down. The only decent play i used was positioning, by using the close cover of the high cliffs on the one side of the map on caustic. I got 2 kills, playing like a total ****** n00b.
You can snip that tiny bit of info out of my other post if it is what you need to stand your position. But your position is lacking, and so far easily dissproved.

To answer your trolling question, yes, because of the context written in my other posts. No, not raw numbers of that particular match when looked at in a vacuum. Yes, again, when looking at my KD ratio of 7:1 on my stats page in 5 matches.

Btw, I am going to stop posting match results for now. It is too absurd so far, and I am going to collect a larger pile of data for a more "average" look.

Really though, if I can take a wet paint fresh mech, and a loadout I have never tried before even once, and get 7:1 ratio and win all but one match(the rambo suicide alpine match we lost by 1) something is not right. When defenders of the thing come along and say "good players blow it up easy" well, i guess maybe somthing is still wrong if "average" players get utterly stomped by it. I am also amused at how "blow it up easy" is used. As if i dont know enough to stay in cover and stalk prey with a short range mech. "Blown away upon exposure" is also amusing, as that is any mech in the game really, what with the pinpoint fire/poptart/etc stuff going on. But that really is a huge ball of wax for other threads.

this thread is for how average guy like me can take a new mech and totally wreck face even when ignoring all semblence of normal gameplay, like heat mechanics, positioning(2 kills even when rambo into enemy team) team chat/interplay. I do well in my other mechs(i have like 60 of them) but I actually have to try to not overheat and position well and aim well, etc, because I use non cheese variety of weapon loadouts, because it is more fun to use more then 5% of the games options.

[Bhael Fire]

Eldagore, on 29 December 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

LOL context? Do you need reading comprehension help?

In that match, I litterally ignored all heat completely. As in, start up, shoot, shut down. The only decent play i used was positioning, by using the close cover of the high cliffs on the one side of the map on caustic. I got 2 kills, playing like a total ****** n00b.
You can snip that tiny bit of info out of my other post if it is what you need to stand your position. But your position is lacking, and so far easily dissproved.

No need to get so touchy. I was merely asking because it appears to me that you are playing against players that are not experienced. That's why I said, keep playing in an AC/40 and you'll eventually see that it's a trap.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Average guy in a pinpoint damage Mech playing against other average players. No offense OP, but AC40 Jagers (which I don't even bother to run) are great at poaching kills and wonderfully fun. They are however, not even remotely game breaking. They are fragile (what was your leg armor again?), limited on range and ammo and once spotted, typically primed by better players.

I'm not a top tier player, but play them often enough to recognize, the AC40 (which has been around since the Mechs' inception, you make it sound like it's somehow a new trend) Jager is a competent but not overly dangerous Mech.

You'll climb the Elo in your fancy new Jager soon enough and see what people are talking about here.

Good hunting.

[KHETTI]

AC/40 Jags can be highly effective if played right, if you like AC/20s, then its an extremely fun mech to run from time to time.
But once you run into players running meta highlanders that know what they are doing they will dispatch you quickly.

I personally have found the AC/30 Jag to be far more versatile and you tend not to get the same attention from enemy assaults.

[Zordicron]

Meta HGN play is not what i am talking about here. jager is not a meta HGN, so obviously a meta HGn will win. Meta HGN uber ELO is not even the same game as what the majority play, and as such i do not see how it applies really, as you can take most any non meta mech and make the same arguments, except that non meta mech will not perform like this ac40 jager in the "normal" game. I have been to the meta HGN nonsense game a few times. i tank my elo to get away, as it is just not fun when i 100% pug and dont use voice chats etc. i guess if I played 12 man I would maybe see a point in it more, but I dont, so I dont.

I am also curious how people can come to the conclusion that "high end players can kill them easy, so it is fine". What? so if i wreck "normal players" without trying, it is also fine because high end players can kill me? I dunno, maybe I dont understand because I dont find meta HGN play fun, and as such dont force myself to conform to it and grind through a painful gameplay because "I must win no matter what". I do not feel this changes the point though. if it takes high end payers to beat it, well? It cant be both ways- either high end players are special and rare and the majority of players eat dirt to my AC40, or high end players are everywhere and not actually all that special and my ac40 jager is not a problem because high end players are the majority.

Anyway, time for family, i wont be back here for a good while.

[Nightcrept]

Funny thing about everyone talking about climbing the elo brackets is that our elo system doesn't work that way.

And the players who generally tend to have the higher kdr and other scores aren't the better players individually but simply in the better units.

So what is being said is that the mech is weak against teams who can communicate and target you effectively. However this is true of any and all mechs regardless of build.

[Bhael Fire]

Nightcrept, on 29 December 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

So what is being said is that the mech is weak against teams who can communicate and target you effectively. However this is true of any and all mechs regardless of build.

Not exactly. What is being said is that experienced players — solo or grouped — will know the weaknesses of the chassis and exploit them.