120 replies to this topic

[Praehotec8]

I'm not saying this build is good or bad, and I'm not saying LBXs don't warrant some improvement BUT:

I find the LBX startlingly effective. I avoided it for almost a year because of how bad everyone said it was, but then I tried it on a build just to test it out, and I liked it!

The LBX does spread out, and it's a terrible pinpoint distance weapon. BUT...up close, if you hit CT (or ST) with it, most pellets go where you want, and it's actually useful, combined with other weapons. For less weight than an AC10, you get a weapon that does slightly less damage to the component you were aiming for...with a bonus to crit. chance. It's also useful for pelting lights as they dart by.

Sure, it may not be top ELO/competitive, but frankly, I'm sick of hearing about the "elite" players and how they are the only players that matter. Frankly, top level play with all jump-sniping/meta-humping sounds boring. It's the symptom of both the game's pinpoint balance issue, AND the players. Some people don't want to "run CTF, HGN, JM6-FB, or go home!" It's nice to see players using unorthodox builds, and more importantly, make them work!

[christophermx4]

I use a dual LBX setup in my Atlas sometimes. Combined with 2 SRM6s and 4 medium lasers, it has a decent alpha strike. That said, I hardly think it's the best mech I've ever built. The LBXs have a faster reload rate, so I imagine the DPS is higher but the lack of viable range kills the LBX.

[Hoaggie]

Praehotec8, on 30 December 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

It's nice to see players using unorthodox builds, and more importantly, make them work!

I dont think you could have said it better. But how does one know if they are top Elo?

[Artgathan]

Hoaggie, on 30 December 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

Yes, I've done that too, but I had to stop when they put in ghost heat.

My two cents about your build, drop off the lasers and a heat sink for a larger engine, that way you are more maneuverable. You will pick up 11kph with speed tweak, while your overall firepower goes down your sustained DPS is functionally doubled.

HBK-4G 3 AC5's


There is no point in running 3 AC5’s when they cook you faster than killing the enemy. Even with chain fire you have to slow down your rate of fire below the chain-fire rate, so you may be better off with just 2.

HBK-4G 2 AC5's 98kph

AFAIK there's no Ghost Heat on the AC/5?

I'm also not a Hunchback Pilot. I tried getting into the 4G a long time ago, but I couldn't stand getting my main weapon blown away so frequently.

[Praehotec8]

christophermx4, on 30 December 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

I imagine the DPS is higher but the lack of viable range kills the LBX.

This is a big problem, and I lay it more with the players than the game. No one brawls because everyone feels safer hiding and sniping, and this is why the meta-game has shifted from LRMs to PPC/gauss, to AC2/5. They all lay down accurate, long-range fire. Brawler builds actually can be effective, but one needs to be cautious as to where and when to engage. I suspect that in high ELO matches, by the time brawling begins, all that is left is the cleanup. It would be nice if this were fixed, but I suspect that unless one can change the players, it will not happen.

@Hoaggie - There is no way to know your ELO. That's one issue: many players who think they are "elite" likely are not. However, some players are just very good, and it's generally acknowledged that they are likely top-tier. That being said, I've played in PUG matches, against some of those who are quick to announce their skill on the forum, and have generally not found them to be significantly better than most. I find it's the quiet, silent ones who I see schooling me and everyone else.

[Hoaggie]

Artgathan, on 30 December 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

AFAIK there's no Ghost Heat on the AC/5?

I'm also not a Hunchback Pilot. I tried getting into the 4G a long time ago, but I couldn't stand getting my main weapon blown away so frequently.

Holy ****, there isn’t. How do AC2’s get ghost heat but AC5’s don’t? The ghost heat system is just garbage

Praehotec8, on 30 December 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

This is a big problem, and I lay it more with the players than the game. No one brawls because everyone feels safer hiding and sniping, and this is why the meta-game has shifted from LRMs to PPC/gauss, to AC2/5. They all lay down accurate, long-range fire. Brawler builds actually can be effective, but one needs to be cautious as to where and when to engage. I suspect that in high ELO matches, by the time brawling begins, all that is left is the cleanup. It would be nice if this were fixed, but I suspect that unless one can change the players, it will not happen.

@Hoaggie - There is no way to know your ELO. That's one issue: many players who think they are "elite" likely are not. However, some players are just very good, and it's generally acknowledged that they are likely top-tier. That being said, I've played in PUG matches, against some of those who are quick to announce their skill on the forum, and have generally not found them to be significantly better than most. I find it's the quiet, silent ones who I see schooling me and everyone else.

They also nerfed LRMs, lasers, and gauss like crazy, hence the shift to ballistics

As far as brawling goes, it really depends on the map, if it’s a map where you can somewhat ambush other players when you are in a brawler then you will do well. If a more sniper/poptart oriented map you are just SOL, waiting for the snipers to kill each other so you can close on them.
My best stats are actually in a brawler Atlas, but I don’t even know if they are good.

[Mcgral18]

Hoaggie, on 30 December 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

Holy ****, there isn’t. How do AC2’s get ghost heat but AC5’s don’t? The ghost heat system is just garbage

Due to people stagger firing them, blinding the opposition. As such, we've lost the glorious dakka.

[Hoaggie]

Mcgral18, on 30 December 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

Due to people stagger firing them, blinding the opposition. As such, we've lost the glorious dakka.

But you get ghost heat from even one AC2, if you fire it at maximum speed and have fast fire.

[Mcgral18]

Hoaggie, on 30 December 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

But you get ghost heat from even one AC2, if you fire it at maximum speed and have fast fire.

Not anymore, since they changed the fire rate to .52 instead of .50. As such, you can group fire 3 of them without any bad effects. Stagger fire will get yourself overheated in no time though.

[Rebas Kradd]

lockwoodx, on 29 December 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Use your arms as blockers son. Stick and move! More speed isn't needed honestly because nobody considered a HBK a threat.

Until you posted.

[Gaan Cathal]

Hoaggie, on 30 December 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

I dont think you could have said it better. But how does one know if they are top Elo?

It used to be the people you saw match after match, but since my break it seems like most of those old faces aren't posting on the forums anymore (I wasn't so good I saw them constantly ingame in any case). The unofficial tournaments and leagues are also good indicators.

[Hoaggie]

Mcgral18, on 30 December 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

Not anymore, since they changed the fire rate to .52 instead of .50. As such, you can group fire 3 of them without any bad effects. Stagger fire will get yourself overheated in no time though.

No, with fast fire you still get chost heat. What's the point of firing 3 AC2's at the rate that 2 can fire?

Gaan Cathal, on 30 December 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

It used to be the people you saw match after match, but since my break it seems like most of those old faces aren't posting on the forums anymore (I wasn't so good I saw them constantly ingame in any case). The unofficial tournaments and leagues are also good indicators.

MWO lost a lot of paying members over the 3rd person camera debacle.

[anubis969]

Hoaggie, on 30 December 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

No, with fast fire you still get chost heat. What's the point of firing 3 AC2's at the rate that 2 can fire?

Fast fire doesn't do anything. They deactivated it ages ago to "fix" the issue it caused with AC2's.

Edited by anubis969, 30 December 2013 - 04:55 PM.

[Master Maniac]

lockwoodx, on 29 December 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

This is exactly the kind of attitude behind why I nicknamed my HBK "David". The only ones who are going to denounce the OPness of DUALBX through 1 tube are elitists who can't run anything but bloated heavies/assaults, and they still tumble like dominos for the most part even in 1vs 1 situations. I'm giving PGI fair warning that if they allow players to continue to abuse the mech bay by cramming excessive parts into unintended slots, you're going to have builds like mine absolutely wrecking people then go blaming it on FoTM builds on the forums or worse, leaving for greener pastures.

You're an obvious troll, son. Obvious.

Besides, your ALL POWERFUL 50 TONNER is useless when I ream out your massive hunch *by accident" trying to shoot your CT. As someone else said so eloquently, if I let that chuggy waddler get close to me, I deserve my...spread out 20 points of damage.

Stop with the artificial alarm-ringing.

[Mcgral18]

Hoaggie, on 30 December 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

No, with fast fire you still get chost heat. What's the point of firing 3 AC2's at the rate that 2 can fire?

No, they do not. My Shadowhawk would explode after 5 seconds of firing if there was ghost heat, and it has 3. If you stagger fire them, you will see the exponential increase in heat, and get maybe 5 volleys, as opposed to over 10 when you group fire.

Stagger fire is not chainfire, it's rapidly firing them one after another, each before the other recycles. A constant stream of bullets, rather than the single group fire. It sounds nicer, but spreads damage. No longer possible with ghost heat.

anubis969, on 30 December 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Fast fire doesn't do anything. They deactivated it ages ago to "fix" the issue it caused with AC2's.

Nah, it still works, but they changed the ROF of the AC2 from .50 to .52 to prevent it from activating the GH. 5% is just so pointless it doesn't really make a difference.

[anubis969]

Mcgral18, on 30 December 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Nah, it still works, but they changed the ROF of the AC2 from .50 to .52 to prevent it from activating the GH. 5% is just so pointless it doesn't really make a difference.

Fast fire has been thoroughly tested, I assure you it no longer works. Both fast fire and pinpoint are currently dead.

http://mwomercs.com/...75#entry2726475

[Hoaggie]

anubis969, on 30 December 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

Fast fire has been thoroughly tested, I assure you it no longer works. Both fast fire and pinpoint are currently dead.

http://mwomercs.com/...75#entry2726475

Well that's ********
Pinpoint has never done anything, since convergence is broke as hell and instant.
It’s information like this that makes me sad about the future of what could have been an epic game

[OneEyed Jack]

anubis969, on 30 December 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Fast fire doesn't do anything. They deactivated it ages ago to "fix" the issue it caused with AC2's.

Incorrect.

anubis969, on 30 December 2013 - 05:09 PM, said:

Fast fire has been thoroughly tested, I assure you it no longer works. Both fast fire and pinpoint are currently dead.

http://mwomercs.com/...75#entry2726475

I've personally tested it and posted videos. Fast Fire does indeed currently work.

It's simple enough to test if you can make a macro. A macro firing at 95% of the cycle rate of the weapon (may want to add a tiny bit to compensate for latency) will fire the weapon consistently as it comes off cool-down. If Fast Fire didn't work, it would be trying to fire before the weapon was available, and wouldn't successfully fire until the macro cycled again. This can be tested by taking the same macro and using it in the Testing Grounds where efficiencies don't work.

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 30 December 2013 - 06:22 PM.

[anubis969]

OneEyed Jack, on 30 December 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Incorrect.


I've personally tested it and posted videos. Fast Fire does indeed work.

Do you have a link to those videos? While I haven't posted videos I have tested it myself too, using ScJazz's macro, evilC's macro, as well as my own, and while I have observed some peculiarities that someone might mistake for fast fire working I have not been able to generate any data that proves that to be the case. Quite the opposite.

Edited by anubis969, 30 December 2013 - 06:22 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

anubis969, on 30 December 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Do you have a link to those videos? While I haven't posted videos I have tested it myself too, using ScJazz's macro, evilC's macro, as well as my own, and while I have observed some peculiarities that someone might mistake for fast fire working I have not been able to generate any data that proves that to be the case. Quite the opposite.

Did you test in the Testing Grounds?



I apologize for the quality. No idea why Youtube made such a mess of it. There was also a 2nd video that seems to have vanished.