174 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

lack of private matches, ui 2.0 & respawn enabled training grounds to get newbies going is really showing in this guys post.

[dragnier1]

I'm wondering if private matches will make the player pool even smaller. Not everyone plays in a group.

Have doubts about respawn system...more kdr boasting...might cheapen the gaming experience...

Edited by dragnier1, 05 January 2014 - 01:51 AM.

[SiorAlpin Wolf]

Girth Fillmore, on 04 January 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

I was lucky enough to start in closed beta where there weren't TOO many really good players. They were definitely out there though, and they helped me out quite a bit with weapon ranges, locks, where to aim, etc.

It sucks that you're quitting, but you're just scratching at the surface of what makes this game fun to play. Don't rely on PGI to make you have fun. Take some initiative, get social, and see how the "other half" lives.

I think you have mentioned an important part of the gaming experience here, is that alot of the founders all started at about the same level of skill and experience, so the general level of map knowledge, weapon understanding and other technical parts of the game was all about the same for the players, and everytime a new piece of equipment or map, nerf and buff was introduced into the game you were all at the same level, so you all learned the new stuff together including myself and that is the type of learning that is missing for the new player, they are literally thrown in at the deep end and expected to stick around and pay PGI for the experience of being humiliated by alot of the community by comments and taken the **** out of just because they are new and dont know what they are doing, i do believe that this type of trolling can be classed as the new cyber bullying.

If the OP was given and A.I environment (as he mentioned in one of his posts) im sure this steep learning curve would of been such a large mountain to climb and his understanding of the game mechanics would increase quickly, and therefore be a competitive combatant that doesnt feel as though the gaming experience is so 1 sided for this title.

I have dropped with the OP several times and from how he used to speak about and play the game for a 3 week new player he had some pretty good skills and built up a fair sum of knowledge about all aspects of the game, the feeling i got was that he works hard through the day and just likes to chill out to a good all round game of which MWO isnt at this moment in time. his sentiment was and i quote from his words:

"I just like to have fun, dieing within the first minute or so of a 15 minute game just isn't fun"

That is about as much as i could remember to be able to quote exactly, but he did say that going from shooting at stationary targets to shooting moving targets with the variable of ping in so far removed that it makes shooting at stationary targets kinda pointless and a waste of time, i would have to agree.

But anyway he was a nice dude and i hope he comes back, but reading some of the comments by some just in this thread alone i cant blame him if he doesn't, and those of you that mock, troll and bully the new players you are just doing 1 thing, you are pushing away the future players, so when MWO does fail and shuts down, i hope you give yourselves a pat on the back for job well done.
Its just aswell we arn't forced to give our real identities, if we did then i dont think so many of us would be quite so quick to troll and be quite so outspoken towards the game or the new players of which this games requires to keep it alive.

[sneeking]

ai opponents wont help, all they will do is teach you the controls.

your not playing against ai here and thats the point ( you should get to it asap )

its mouse n keyboard anyways so we all already know the controls right ?

nobody's "that" new.

Edited by sneeking, 05 January 2014 - 07:00 AM.

[Turist0AT]

i think we are giving this thread way to much attention.

[Bront]

babadude71, on 04 January 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

As the game is at the moment it is certainly no fun for a new player, to have to constantly die to learn anything is just pointless and it defies all reasoning behind playing a game to have fun and enjoy ones self.

Using this logic, Super Mario Brothers or nearly any platformer over the past 30 years is pointless and no fun.

There is plenty wrong with the new player experience in the game, but the challenge and constantly dying isn't one of them, as not only is it not required (plenty of folks can win even as a new player), but learning from one's mistakes is a fairly natural thing, and it's how most of the best players learn as well.

Don't want to play? That's fine, play what you enjoy, but if you're looking for a game where you don't have to fail on occasion to become good at, I don't think you're being fair to most games, or to life in general.

[GrizzlyViking]

If you are a new player playing solo you will naturally die often due to a lack of knowledge, experience, and teamwork. To excel at MWO takes time, experience, and teamwork. If you return in a year or more expecting to find some kind of easy mode I expect that you will be disappointed again. Posting in the forums to the masses will not help. To win more than you die you must join an experienced group and learn from them over time. If you are uninterested in or unwilling to join a team, then MWO is not the game for you. If you want to join team, then see the factions section of the forums for options.

Edited by GrizzlyViking, 05 January 2014 - 08:25 AM.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

to the OP, maybe play less get your 2xps out of the way then log.i will not say 'go everywhere except MWO to learn how to play (it should all be in the actual game or site)'i see many defenders suggesting 3rd party software to improve your game play i use raidcall and ts3 but its only evidence of the poor state of the game(4 people on comms is better than none, i guess.imagine what 12 on comms might do).i troll these forums and watch the links, recently i viewed a video of a developer talking about map voting in 2012 and how you wouldnt want to drop on a hot map with a hot mech....to find the cool build for the hot maps is a cbill sink so it will take you longer to progress.untill all of MWOs problems are addressed just search for any post by 'Koniving"he's the new player instructer.

[DemonRaziel]

Many of you guys with a thinly-veiled "good riddance" posts seem to miss that, at least according to PGI/IGP, this game is no longer BETA. It's advertised as a released game and players joining in are expecting a certain standard of completion from these games. Many of us joined during the early phase of the game's development cycle, when the lack of many features (both in- and off-game) was justifiable, but that is long time over.

Also, many of us are veteran gamers, that both have some previous experience with the IP and are used to much older games that were oftentimes plain-out cruel to the players. But let's not forget this is supposed to be "not your father's mechwarrior" suggesting a new gaming experience for (though hopefully not limited to) new generation of players. Certain features and ease-of access are simply considered a standard these days (and were for many years prior) and their lack is not helping player retention in the slightest.

How can anyone say that asking for a tutorial, or a decent game manual is in any way entitlement to an easy mode is beyond me... If nothing else, it points at the level elitism of some of the posters and their overt fanboyism that makes them offended over any criticism towards this game.

Posting advice, guides and tutorials, contributing to WIKI, developing tools to setup builds is all great, but it should be PGI who takes interest in helping their (new and old alike) players get to experience the game in its fullest, not rely on the fanbase and 3rd party actions.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Mycrus, on 05 January 2014 - 01:32 AM, said:

QFT..

When the game was beta, I was one of the loudest hecklers when a goodbye thread comes out...

We are now "launched" old players are retiring or taking long breathers... This game can't afford to have its community insult new players that leave...

There you go again with the vets are leaving {Scrap}....you don't have proof, it isn't helping to yell that the sky is falling, so WTF are you on about?

DemonRaziel, on 05 January 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Many of you guys with a thinly-veiled "good riddance" posts seem to miss that, at least according to PGI/IGP, this game is no longer BETA. It's advertised as a released game and players joining in are expecting a certain standard of completion from these games. Many of us joined during the early phase of the game's development cycle, when the lack of many features (both in- and off-game) was justifiable, but that is long time over.

Also, many of us are veteran gamers, that both have some previous experience with the IP and are used to much older games that were oftentimes plain-out cruel to the players. But let's not forget this is supposed to be "not your father's mechwarrior" suggesting a new gaming experience for (though hopefully not limited to) new generation of players. Certain features and ease-of access are simply considered a standard these days (and were for many years prior) and their lack is not helping player retention in the slightest.

How can anyone say that asking for a tutorial, or a decent game manual is in any way entitlement to an easy mode is beyond me... If nothing else, it points at the level elitism of some of the posters and their overt fanboyism that makes them offended over any criticism towards this game.

Posting advice, guides and tutorials, contributing to WIKI, developing tools to setup builds is all great, but it should be PGI who takes interest in helping their (new and old alike) players get to experience the game in its fullest, not rely on the fanbase and 3rd party actions.

FTR, I think you are mixing the bags here. Some of us are saying Goodbye!! with relish since it doesn't seem like the OP has what it takes to be a mechwarrior. I am happy to answer questions and help, both here and in game. But I am not going to waste time working with someone who isn't mature enough to handle losing. Well other than my son, but he's a child and thus it's allowed. That and he's learning and growing. Some of the people who come to MWO aren't willing to grow and mature.

That said, yes I'm know it's a heck of a shock to new players. I recruited a buddy and even with me not sugar coating it, he was a bit surprised and the lack of support. I am also a huge supporter of making a better tutorial. Yet I would be willing to bet that many of the ragequitters didn't go thru it since they are 1337 gamerz who don't need no stinking' tutorials.

Yes it's is PGI's job, but at the moment they have to prioritize. CW has to come out, this time on schedule, or else there will be a huge backlash. Also they have a budget, and if people stop spending money on the game not likely they can hire people to take on more tasks. They also can't divert people since that would slow progress etc.

In other words, people who want help to become better are welcomed. People who want to be carried are, at best, tolerated. Those who whine incessantly while rarely, if ever, offering up real ideas for solutions, are all to common and tolerated since it's against the rules to tell them how we really feel.

[Orbit Rain]

If he's dying within the first minute and hasn't figured it out by now that he's doing it wrong, that's on him. If he thinks people will blindly follow him in their demise within the first minute, that's on him. He's a new player, there's SO much he doesn't understand that he must not enjoy the journey of unlocking this knowledge, getting it imprinted in his own skull. Come back OP, when you want to be a mechwarrior, when you're willing to put in the time to figure this game out, to become one with your mech...to become one with many...many...*mechs*.

I've been wavering on the fence about the new user experience vs the "be a mechwarrior" experience. You have to grind...work...your way through to build up the efficiencies of your mechs, you pay by playing, for that experience of driving a pimp mech, how you make your own beasts. You haven't gotten there if you don't have a mech you find a pleasure to pilot. A mech that you feel at home with and have figured out how to run. You haven't created that sweet-beast. There's no shortcut to that, because that's on you to figure out what glove fits your own hand.

After one month, most likely nothing will fit your hand, because there are so many other factors you don't realize yet. There really are a s-ton of different roles, and mechs, and ways to play this game. Learning one roles teaches you more about other roles. So on top of mastering a particular variant, and the way it plays out. (and by mastering, I *certainly* do not mean unlocking the module slot)...on top of that, as one masters other roles, it only adds to the knowledge of other roles...please tell me which leftie mechs and which righty mechs you like, you like fast or slow missile-boats? Where on the CTF-VTR-HGN spectrum do you like to sit? Is your preference between a SDR-5V or a JR7-F for brawling? Five or six mediums on that F?

A bunch...a lot of people will know exactly what I'm talking about here, after just a month, you have little idea. No one but you will motivate you to put in the real work, the drops, to tell the differences, to know your niche. I'll agree the experience is straight horrible for new people getting there. You are thrown in with the wolves, in these dog fights. PVP is like that. This game for whatever reasons/excuses/problems/rationalizations is like that. You can take it or leave it, leaving it is an economic decision with your own utility curve, that only you can measure. PGI will do what they do to keep new people hanging on. Whether that's enough, and whatever that is, will get them whatever return they get, that's their own curve to deal with.

I'm happy I'm playing a game I didn't have to program or develop. It's got an endless learning-curve, and I enjoy piloting stompy robots...speaking of...I'd rather mechwarrior than type...I'm going play in this natural-selection pool, where I'm not gonna cry because I'm getting killed straight-away...because I won't be. Enjoy it for what it is, and the challenge it presents OP, or not.

[Myomes]

babadude71, on 04 January 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

Thanks to everyone that has helped me with this game so far, but i shall be uninstalling it at some point today.

As the game is at the moment it is certainly no fun for a new player, to have to constantly die to learn anything is just pointless and it defies all reasoning behind playing a game to have fun and enjoy ones self.

Regardless of whats coming and bugs and other game issues, for a new players experience it is just awfull, as a whole this game feels as though it should still be in beta testing and not classed as a viable product to be sold. I have given suggestions only to be trolled and de-railed.

I will install the game next year perhaps if it is still up and running, but i think i can find better use for the space it's taking up on my hard drive.

Thanks again for the lesson in how not to make a new player feel welcome into a game.

thank you. It was my privilege to stomp you.

Edited by Myomes, 05 January 2014 - 12:14 PM.

[Myomes]

DemonRaziel, on 05 January 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

Many of you guys with a thinly-veiled "good riddance" posts seem to miss that, at least according to PGI/IGP, this game is no longer BETA. It's advertised as a released game and players joining in are expecting a certain standard of completion from these games. Many of us joined during the early phase of the game's development cycle, when the lack of many features (both in- and off-game) was justifiable, but that is long time over.

Also, many of us are veteran gamers, that both have some previous experience with the IP and are used to much older games that were oftentimes plain-out cruel to the players. But let's not forget this is supposed to be "not your father's mechwarrior" suggesting a new gaming experience for (though hopefully not limited to) new generation of players. Certain features and ease-of access are simply considered a standard these days (and were for many years prior) and their lack is not helping player retention in the slightest.

How can anyone say that asking for a tutorial, or a decent game manual is in any way entitlement to an easy mode is beyond me... If nothing else, it points at the level elitism of some of the posters and their overt fanboyism that makes them offended over any criticism towards this game.

Posting advice, guides and tutorials, contributing to WIKI, developing tools to setup builds is all great, but it should be PGI who takes interest in helping their (new and old alike) players get to experience the game in its fullest, not rely on the fanbase and 3rd party actions.

I think it weeds out the people who choose not to think and want everything spoonfed to 'em.

[Myomes]

SiorAlpin Wolf, on 05 January 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

[/size]




"I just like to have fun, dieing within the first minute or so of a 15 minute game just isn't fun"

That is about as much as i could remember to be able to quote exactly, but he did say that going from shooting at stationary targets to shooting moving targets with the variable of ping in so far removed that it makes shooting at stationary targets kinda pointless and a waste of time, i would have to agree.

But anyway he was a nice dude and i hope he comes back, but reading some of the comments by some just in this thread alone i cant blame him if he doesn't, and those of you that mock, troll and bully the new players you are just doing 1 thing, you are pushing away the future players, so when MWO does fail and shuts down, i hope you give yourselves a pat on the back for job well done.
Its just aswell we arn't forced to give our real identities, if we did then i dont think so many of us would be quite so quick to troll and be quite so outspoken towards the game or the new players of which this games requires to keep it alive.

Sounds to me like you're an anti-privacy advocate and he's a respawn advocate. CoD has respawns so you arent permadead.

[xMEPHISTOx]

dragnier1, on 05 January 2014 - 01:44 AM, said:

I'm wondering if private matches will make the player pool even smaller. Not everyone plays in a group.

Have doubts about respawn system...more kdr boasting...might cheapen the gaming experience...

It very well may separate the player base, that's why I want a lobby system as opposed to private matches...private matches will kill 12 man queue as many wish to avoid others. However with a lobby system you could arrange to drop with another group w/out leaving the 12 man queue lobby...similar to what tanks has.

I think you misunderstood what he said with respawn in TRAINING GROUNDS therefore having no effect on kdr or anything else as in training grounds there are no stats...its for training and practices and the like. If he were speaking of respawns in regular matches then I would be deadest against that as it is lame and to arcade like.

SiorAlpin Wolf, on 05 January 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

[/size]

alot of the founders all started at about the same level of skill and experience, so the general level of map knowledge, weapon understanding and other technical parts of the game was all about the same for the players, and everytime a new piece of equipment or map, nerf and buff was introduced into the game you were all at the same level

Have to disagree with that. This is not the first bt/mw title and many of us have been playing bt/mw titles since the early nineties and came in pretty strong. The learning curve for a former bt/mw player vs. a truly new player are vast and very noticeable. However there were not as many at that time (early closed beta, prior to founder packs especially) that made their way over.

GrizzlyViking, on 05 January 2014 - 08:23 AM, said:

If you are a new player playing solo you will naturally die often due to a lack of knowledge, experience, and teamwork. To excel at MWO takes time, experience, and teamwork.

^accurate assessment.^

Quote

SiorAlpin Wolf, on 05 January 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

"I just like to have fun, dieing within the first minute or so of a 15 minute game just isn't fun"

Then quit dying so early, learn to play smart and play w/the team by not being a hero who runs off on his own. This is not COD...once you die that is it...pro mode. If they did add respawns...well that would be it for me and this game. Hawken has respawn, arcade mechs is epic fail imo.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 05 January 2014 - 12:32 PM.

[Mycrus]

Nick Makiaveli, on 05 January 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

There you go again with the vets are leaving {Scrap}....you don't have proof, it isn't helping to yell that the sky is falling, so WTF are you on about?

what about dev themselves saying that only half of the founders log-on at least once a month?

bryan ekman interviews on NGNG

not my fault you are blind (or deaf)... lulz...

[xMEPHISTOx]

Mycrus, on 05 January 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

what about dev themselves saying that only half of the founders log-on at least once a month?

bryan ekman interviews on NGNG

not my fault you are blind (or deaf)... lulz...

Not unbelievable at all, even w/out evidence. I mean they pissed the Founders off and as a result many left. PGI may not even care, I feel as though they thought of it as cutting off a damaged limb and then looked to move on with a new crowd they could potentially please.
But what they did not count on is that there a lot of the newer players who have come in and have the same expectations for the game as the Founders did, and no doubt dislike being lied to just as their predecessors did.
So yeah, it is time they simply start to accommodate the need of the serious/competitive minded bt/mw gamers as there are more of them than they had anticipated.
If people wanted a arcade {Scrap} mech game they would be playing Hawken.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 05 January 2014 - 04:26 PM.

[Myomes]

which is the sweetest irony of all in their attempt to disregard the founder's hopes and expectations.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Myomes, on 05 January 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

Sounds to me like you're an anti-privacy advocate and he's a respawn advocate. CoD has respawns so you arent permadead.

Sounds to me like you aren't understanding what he is saying.

Mycrus, on 05 January 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

what about dev themselves saying that only half of the founders log-on at least once a month?

bryan ekman interviews on NGNG

not my fault you are blind (or deaf)... lulz...

First off, so? Half the people that started playing this game years ago have stopped playing. That doesn't sound all that unusual. Granted, I imagine it would be less if the original deadlines had been met, but i would also expect many to come back once CW kicks off.

Hardly evidence this game is doomed.

Also, notice how i am addressing your points, and not insulting you. That's called a debate, and it's what grownups do. Why I am treating you like one you ask? Because if I didn't, I would have to have a one on one with the mods and ain't nobody got time for dat!!!

Myomes, on 05 January 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:

which is the sweetest irony of all in their attempt to disregard the founder's hopes and expectations.

Yep, the devs spent all this time and money in an effort to suck people in, then disappoint them.

Seriously, it's like you people have no concept of how the real world works.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Guys, We all read PGI's commitment thread. This takes time, the people complaining really have no idea about programming. They dont understand how a game works or the mechanics. Try your hand at modding, rigging, scripting, modeling, coding and all that. its unfortunate that this takes time isn't it. They were a group of individuals who wanted to revive mech warrior, just like the latter of us who grew up on battle tech. Things things take months, hell i know some modders who would blow up on their followers for being impatient. No one accounts for the hard work that goes into the game. they just think there are 2 steps 1. make the game, 2.people play the game. I have basic knowledge when it comes to scripting, awhile ago i dove into C++ but i decided that i wanted to do something different. they set deadlines, lets just hope they can stick with em. **** its only been what>? a year since this game was publicly released i maybe a few months and you are expecting the game to be 100%.