424 replies to this topic

[Michael Abt]

RANSARI, on 07 January 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Guys...

You realize they nerfed the hell out of the AC20 and AC10 in preparation for the UAC20 and UAC10, right?

Also, this nerf has the intended or unintended consequence of BUFFING Lights and Medium Mechs because we all hate having to come around the corner and see an AC40 Jagermech standing there.

My main mech is an HBK-4G, and it doesn't feel buffed. Not at all.

[Khobai]

Quote

You realize they nerfed the hell out of the AC20 and AC10 in preparation for the UAC20 and UAC10, right?

I doubt it. That wouldnt make any sense. Why would you want standard autocannons to be less appealing compared to ultra autocannons?

[MustrumRidcully]

Michael Abt, on 07 January 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

My main mech is an HBK-4G, and it doesn't feel buffed. Not at all.

What, you're still using a Founder Mech? What have you done lately for PGI's bottom line that they should care about your play preferences?

Mustrum "Today with extra bitterness and cynism" Ridcully

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 07 January 2014 - 11:44 AM.

[Almond Brown]

3endless8oogie, on 07 January 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

A little tweak is all it takes...

And the Forum PGI Hate Meters were down over the Xmas break so the Dev had to do something, well almost anything seems to work right? Just post PATCH and the Hate Meter returns to normal levels... LOL!

The word is Ballistics are OP and they change some Ballistics... hard crowd to please and the Arm Chair Developers are once again enraged.

This is quite a place...

Edited by Almond Brown, 07 January 2014 - 11:48 AM.

[Priest4357]

Doesn't matter to me personally. Dont do the poptart {Scrap}, and although I do run a Boom jager, I'm able to learn to adjust my play to include some lead. I say, go with it, and keep going!

[Khobai]

Quote

The word is Ballistics are OP and they change some Ballistics

They changed the wrong ones.

The AC10 was already obsolete due to the AC20 doing the same damage at the same range as the AC10 (and twice the damage up close for only 2 tons more). The AC10 needed a buff not a nerf. And the AC5 needed a nerf but didnt get one.

AC20 projectile speed nerf was fine, but the AC20 range compared to the AC10 range is still the real problem.

AC10 projectile speed nerf was questionable, AC10 is still outclassed by the AC20 because of the AC20s range. Either the AC20 needs a range nerf or the AC10 needs a range buff.

AC5 needed a range decrease (its dps is already low, and decreasing projectile speed makes no sense on a sniping weapon, so decreasing the range back to its canon 540m makes the most sense)

Edited by Khobai, 07 January 2014 - 11:58 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Almond Brown, on 07 January 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

And the Forum PGI Hate Meters were down over the Xmas break so the Dev had to do something, well almost anything seems to work right? Just post PATCH and the Hate Meter returns to normal levels... LOL!

The word is Ballistics are OP and they change some Ballistics... hard crowd to please and the Arm Chair Developers are once again enraged.

This is quite a place...

I suggested improving energy weapons as opposed to nerfing Ballistics! Enough Nerfing has been going on over the last year to put Hasbro in financial jeopardy!

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 07 January 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

They changed the wrong ones.

The AC10 was already obsolete due to the AC20 doing the same damage at the same range as the AC10 (and twice the damage up close for only 2 tons more). The AC10 needed a buff not a nerf. And the AC5 needed a nerf but didnt get one.

And they changed them in the wrong way. The projectile speeds were never the root cause of any AC issues. It's caused by an interaction of pinpoint damage and being able to bypass the burden of slow heat dissipation (in the case of AC/10 and AC/20, range was also an issue).

Edited by FupDup, 07 January 2014 - 11:53 AM.

[focuspark]

Rhaythe, on 07 January 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

I get AC20. This firmly plants the AC20 in the realm of brawler weapon.

The AC10, though...? Not so much.

Likely based on collected stats and not on popular opinion.

[wanderer]

Tanar, on 07 January 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

the LBX makes a cool sound when it's fired. i've learned that from spectating. that's all i've got.

The LB-X is what you use to make as many armor locations on your opponent flash as possible. Alternatively, it can be used to make equipment go boom roughly about the point at which the section loses it's last point of internal structure.

I admit, it is the weapon I want to go into PGI and shake the designer around going "WHATSAMATTA, YOU DUMMY!", save for the thought that I might push whatever mariginal brain-failure that caused it to go live into something permament and crippling.

[Almond Brown]

Khobai, on 07 January 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

They changed the wrong ones.

stuff

It is a start though right. Can't please everyone, that much is obvious.

[focuspark]

FupDup, on 07 January 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

And they changed them in the wrong way. The projectile speeds were never the root cause of any AC issues. It's caused by an interaction of pinpoint damage and being able to bypass the burden of slow heat dissipation (in the case of AC/10 and AC/20, range was also an issue).

Agreed, but slow muzzle velocities means less accuracy, giving lasers their accuracy advantage back (a little). Could be a move in the right direction; only time will tell.

[wanderer]

Khobai, on 07 January 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

I doubt it. That wouldnt make any sense. Why would you want standard autocannons to be less appealing compared to ultra autocannons?

A UAC/20 will be the king of frontloaded damage. And a UAC/10 won't be far behind it (at least till either one jams).

There's a reason the Hunchback IIC is famed for being the "gotta win" 'Mech of choice for Clan pilots testing out. One full-force barrage from twin UAC/20's will generally reduce similar targets to smouldering junk even if you just line up on center of mass and hold down the trigger.

Balancing them out is gonna be...interesting. The AC/10 and LB-10X are the ghetto children of AC use right now, and this change feels like they're trying to bring the AC/10 + 20 back to the start of the balancing cycle again.

[New Day]

DONTOR, on 07 January 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

theres nothing wrong with LBX 10, AC2, or flamers they are niche weapons and do there intended jobs well.

that's some high quality trolling there

[Thoummim]

I support this "nerf" AC20 was way too much effective at 450~500m, it was making it a medium range weapon. Making the ac10 useless.

I'm an ac20 lover, I love playing with it in my YLW and I truly feel it was needed. However I think the "nerf" should have been differently by making the ac20 to have the same damage drop as an energy weapon. I think that with just the velocity change your precious 2PPC AC20 remain mostly unchanged, (like 2PPC gauss actually serioulsy its still very effective).

AC20 are supposed to be CLOSE RANGE at 270m you don't care much about how fast your projectile go.

About the ac10 yeah I agree it feel it was not needed. But maybe the numbers from PGI show otherwise. :/

[Deathlike]

MustrumRidcully, on 07 January 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

Underhive is already taken, I don't think we can use it again. (I know, even if I might have been one of the first to use the term, I think it's wrong, because it lacks the bit of extra inspiration that "Underhive" brought to the Steering Wheel.)

Fishing Rod Elo Bracket? (because people like the term Elo bracket so much, maybe as bonus write Elo as ELO)
Fishing Rod Pond?
Fishing Rod League?

Fish'n A Barrel Rod

Fish'n U(nlimited) Barrel Another Aiming Rod

Almond Brown, on 07 January 2014 - 11:46 AM, said:

And the Forum PGI Hate Meters were down over the Xmas break so the Dev had to do something, well almost anything seems to work right? Just post PATCH and the Hate Meter returns to normal levels... LOL!

Have they fixed the tree picture in the challenge section? Right now it's still not fixed and this "new challenge" was released weeks before Christmas started. I'm feeling it's been a month since that challenge event was put there in its section... and the broken pic is there. Minimally viable stuff!

Edited by Deathlike, 07 January 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

Reducing the velocity on the AC20 was a good idea. If the intent is to create a weapon to use at close ranges, you should be discouraged from using it outside of those ranges even though you can. They probably thought the same thing with the AC10. But, that now begs the question of why do we have an extended range on the AC5 when it isn't really needed now with the AC10 speed nerf?

[Trauglodyte]

As a follow up, I'm still not entirely sure why they didn't do a max range AC nerf across the board so that no one AC did more damage than the next at its max effective range. The AC20 < AC10 at 450m, AC10 < AC5 at 600m, and the AC5 < AC2 at 720m. I just don't get why they haven't done that yet. Granted, you can't do that with the Gauss Rifle cause it does more damage than the AC10 at a longer range than the AC10 (tier 2 tech activate) but still, this has been needed for a while.

[Dirus Nigh]

focuspark, on 07 January 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Agreed, but slow muzzle velocities means less accuracy, giving lasers their accuracy advantage back (a little). Could be a move in the right direction; only time will tell.

Giving lasers their accuracy advantage back? WTF? AC are an all or nothing weapon. If you hit you do damage*, if you miss you wasted a shot. For the AC20, and guass that is significant. lasers on the other hand have a beam duration. If you miss the shot you drag the beam until you hit, then hold it there. This insures that at least some damage is done.

* note that hit detection issues can still cause the AC to "miss". There are also issues of convergence at close range. If your cross hairs are near a hit box's edge, whether a building or a mech, there is a tendency for the weapon to fire at an odd angle. This happens with buildings more often, however it has happened with mechs.

When PGI increased the projectile speed of the AC20 it brought the weapon into it's own. I constantly had mechs cross into the shells flight path, turn and exit the path before the shell even arrived at the target. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about targets at 400m, this happened at 200-250. I had a jenner cross the flight path twice. This is what I am afraid will start happening again.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 07 January 2014 - 12:20 PM.

[The Government]

Today we have the .50 cal round. It travels at 4,000 ft/s (1,219 m/s)

Does it seem goofy to anyone else that in the future they can only manage rounds that go as fast as my cousin's 1963 VW minibus?