4831 replies to this topic

[Shadey99]

Ovion, on 25 May 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

Found list.
(All are IS only unless specified)
Energy:
LAMS (Clan only)
Binary Laser Cannon

Ballistic:
Grenade Launcher
Light / Medium / Heavy Rifle

Missile:
Rocket Launcher 10 / 15 / 20
Mech Mortar 1 / 2 / 4/ 8

Artillery:
Any two+ of the following, though preferably AIV and Long Toms, there's no particular reason to have more than 2 though.
Arrow IV Artillery (IS+Clan) Missile
Sniper Artillery PieceBallistic
Thumper Artillery PieceBallistic
Long Tom Cannon Ballistic
Sniper Artillery Cannon Ballistic
Thumper Cannon Ballistic

Only the Artillery existed in the timeline while FASA ran the show and PGI has mentioned before that they left out the Artillery because it was just to hard for them to adjust the weapons to the kind of game they wanted (hence why they later gave us arty strikes and air strikes as consumables to 'replace' the missing weapon systems).

Rifles, Grenade Launchers, Rocket Launchers, Mech Mortars, etc were added by later companies and usually they added these to the later timeline... However some retroactive builds were added using those weapons... Traditionally the next ballistics we would see are near 3060 (8 years form where we are in MWO) with first Light and Heavy MGs and then shortly MG Arrays along with Light ACs and Light/Medium/Heavy Rifles (all 3068)... Though Light Gauss was retroed to 3056, so beats all of those...

Btw from Sarna "[color=#000000]The first modern version of the Rocket Launcher was developed by the [/color]Marian Hegemony[color=#000000] in [/color]3064", so those aren't available yet.

The inability to balance the existing weapons is a good reason not to add yet more. So even if you did want to accelerate the timeline, it's probably not a good idea.

[Shadey99]

Oh by the way... I can now say I've mastered all the loveable (and not so loveable) Locusts.

Edited by Shadey99, 26 May 2015 - 02:54 AM.

[Ovion]

Shadey99, on 26 May 2015 - 02:48 AM, said:

Only the Artillery existed in the timeline while FASA ran the show and PGI has mentioned before that they left out the Artillery because it was just to hard for them to adjust the weapons to the kind of game they wanted (hence why they later gave us arty strikes and air strikes as consumables to 'replace' the missing weapon systems).

Rifles, Grenade Launchers, Rocket Launchers, Mech Mortars, etc were added by later companies and usually they added these to the later timeline... However some retroactive builds were added using those weapons... Traditionally the next ballistics we would see are near 3060 (8 years form where we are in MWO) with first Light and Heavy MGs and then shortly MG Arrays along with Light ACs and Light/Medium/Heavy Rifles (all 3068)... Though Light Gauss was retroed to 3056, so beats all of those...

Btw from Sarna "[color=#000000]The first modern version of the Rocket Launcher was developed by the [/color]Marian Hegemony[color=#000000] in [/color]3064", so those aren't available yet.

The inability to balance the existing weapons is a good reason not to add yet more. So even if you did want to accelerate the timeline, it's probably not a good idea.

Added by later companies or not, it exists officially and is in timeline.
We have lots that isn't original FASA.

No one has brought up PGI couldn't code artillery before when I've discussed it, so for that, righto, an actual reason for not having it.
Arrow IV as LRM style arcing weapons should be doable I think.

Rocket Launchers are a 3050 weapon, as per Sarna.
It wasn't generally made by 'big' companies, and that states 'modern Rocket Launchers' that are also 'worse than the predecessor', it's hardly Lostech, it's 3050 periphery tech.
Being we have in timeline experimental and dead units, no reason not to have it.

As to balance, most of the new things are equivalent or worse, and would simply add variety.

In 80-90% of cases, AC's will be better than rifles.
The exception really being most light mechs.

Grenades / Mortars are effectively LRM variants game wise, with pros and cons (i.e. - lower damage, but AMS resistant / immune, or may use a ballistic slot). These might cause issue, but I'd say mostly it's just variety.

Blazers would help certain mechs (limited to 1-2 E points), but are ultimately worse than a pair of PPCs / Large Lasers if you can manage it, so long as you keep the damage output no better than 1.5LL, but the heat and weight of 2 it'd be fine.

And for LAMs (and being clan only), now we have on/off, should be fine, heat output for AMS performance, instead of ammo.

For all of it, it'd not be good enough to replace existing stuff on most, but a few fringe mechs would benefit from them, and it'd give more choice.

Plus Grenades, Mortars, Rifles and Rocket Launchers would probably all benefit Locusts! : D

[Shadey99]

Grenades and Mortars have a few issues with MWO... First is multiple ammo types (which MWO just cannot do, even clan LB-X weapons needed coded as two different weapons because PGI couldn't figure out how to handle two types of ammo). Second is breaking AMS. You may have missed the days before AMS (or more importantly ECM) in MWO, but the whining about missiles was insane (even though cover > than AMS or ECM). I can see people boating these now to lob fire over hills and with AMS not working on them it would be forum wars...

Also for Rocket Launchers: "The first modern version of the Rocket Launcher was developed by the Marian Hegemony in 3064 from Man-Portable Rocket Launchers as a simple and crude replacement for other weaponry types in the more low-tech regions of the Periphery. These weapons were largely forgotten until the modern systems were re-introduced by the Marian Hegemony, but the new version had an even worse guidance system than its predecessors." So no... They are exceedingly rare weapons until 3064 as I said earlier.

And while the Light Rifle may add some options for Locusts, but really at 3 damage per shot (for 3 tons for each weapon), your better off using medium lasers. Not to mention Locusts don't really have the weight to mount Light Rifles and lasers at the same time.

Variations of the MG will probably be the biggest help to the Locust and other lights. Light MGs offer a range advantage (twice normal MGs) to better synergize with energy payloads. Heavy MGs can do as much damage as Light Rifles at very close ranges, 4 HMGs on a Locust doing 12 damage would make them much more powerful. MG Arrays would offer 2 or 4 MGs (or even LMGs and HMGs) per hardpoint for an extra .5 tons and 1 crit. This would let a Locust with 2 ballistics hard points put in 2 MGAs with dual HMGs costing 5 tons (2.5t each) for the weapons and dealing the same damage as if you had 4 HMGs (12).

It would however make mechs like the Arrow (Or JM6-DD, KGC-000, or Mauler) incredibly lethal having the option for 6 MGAs with quad HMGs (so 24 HMGs in effect), though these would cost 4.5 tons per MGA (27 tons total) and able to inflict 72 damage... Even with the shotgun spray of MWO MGs that would just peel armor from mechs and then rip them apart.

Edited by Shadey99, 26 May 2015 - 06:06 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Shadey99, on 26 May 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

Grenades and Mortars have a few issues with MWO... First is multiple ammo types (which MWO just cannot do, even clan LB-X weapons needed coded as two different weapons because PGI couldn't figure out how to handle two types of ammo). Second is breaking AMS. You may have missed the days before AMS (or more importantly ECM) in MWO, but the whining about missiles was insane (even though cover > than AMS or ECM). I can see people boating these now to lob fire over hills and with AMS not working on them it would be forum wars...

Also for Rocket Launchers: "The first modern version of the Rocket Launcher was developed by the Marian Hegemony in 3064 from Man-Portable Rocket Launchers as a simple and crude replacement for other weaponry types in the more low-tech regions of the Periphery. These weapons were largely forgotten until the modern systems were re-introduced by the Marian Hegemony, but the new version had an even worse guidance system than its predecessors." So no... They are exceedingly rare weapons until 3064 as I said earlier.

And while the Light Rifle may add some options for Locusts, but really at 3 damage per shot (for 3 tons for each weapon), your better off using medium lasers. Not to mention Locusts don't really have the weight to mount Light Rifles and lasers at the same time.

Variations of the MG will probably be the biggest help to the Locust and other lights. Light MGs offer a range advantage (twice normal MGs) to better synergize with energy payloads. Heavy MGs can do as much damage as Light Rifles at very close ranges, 4 HMGs on a Locust doing 12 damage would make them much more powerful. MG Arrays would offer 2 or 4 MGs (or even LMGs and HMGs) per hardpoint for an extra .5 tons and 1 crit. This would let a Locust with 2 ballistics hard points put in 2 MGAs with dual HMGs costing 5 tons (2.5t each) for the weapons and dealing the same damage as if you had 4 HMGs (12).

It would however make mechs like the Arrow (Or JM6-DD, KGC-000, or Mauler) incredibly lethal having the option for 6 MGAs with quad HMGs (so 24 HMGs in effect), though these would cost 4.5 tons per MGA (27 tons total) and able to inflict 72 damage... Even with the shotgun spray of MWO MGs that would just peel armor from mechs and then rip them apart.

Here's the thing though. The first available version of the Rocket Launcher is actually 3050 tech, and is widely available. The more MODERN version, came out in 3064.

[Shadey99]

IraqiWalker, on 26 May 2015 - 06:13 AM, said:

Here's the thing though. The first available version of the Rocket Launcher is actually 3050 tech, and is widely available. The more MODERN version, came out in 3064.

Not as stated in that article:

"The weapon first appeared in recognizable form on Terra during the Terran Alliance collapse. These early Rocket Launchers were (from thirty-first century perspective) considered primitive. Rocket Launchers were first fielded by warring Terran political factions trying gain control of the planet and the Alliance itself. After Admiral McKenna's coup, the weapon fell out of use and became exinct.

In the early twenty-ninth century, the warring Pentagon Powers of the former Star League in Exile also developed and used primitive rocket launcher systems. They were identical to Terran Allaince's Primitive launchers.

The first modern version of the Rocket Launcher was developed by the Marian Hegemony in 3064 from Man-Portable Rocket Launchers as a simple and crude replacement for other weaponry types in the more low-tech regions of the Periphery. These weapons were largely forgotten until the modern systems were re-introduced by the Marian Hegemony, but the new version had an even worse guidance system than its predecessors.

These weapons were soon fitted on BattleMechs, and by the Jihad would see wide spread use among the Inner Sphere powers."

The bolding is mine, but you'll note that as a later retroactive addition to the lore... No official battlemechs had them until the 3060's. So yes, they exist, but are exceedingly rare until re-introduced by the Marian Hegemony in 3064. Any other reading of the text is simply a miss reading of it.

[IraqiWalker]

Shadey99, on 26 May 2015 - 06:41 AM, said:

Sarn article

Ok.

[Ovion]

And yet, the weapon entries say Year Availability 3050
Rocket Launcher 10
Rocket Launcher 15
Rocket Launcher 20

And that's good enough for MWO.

[Wildstreak]

The Locust is no longer Underrated, I can do more damage even in a 1V than a Mist Lynx.

Mist Lynx is the new King of Underrated Mechs.

[HimseIf]

Snow glistens on the mountain top, no friendly lasers to be seen
So many radar ping, all of them look enemy
Don't let them know, don't let them see, a little locust sneaking creepily
No PPC, No AC5 or 10 for me

Blaze them all, sLase' them all
Poke and run away, shoot some more
Flame them all, cane them all
Meta game was such a bore
i don't care what my team mates say

L R M'z never bothered me anyway


(Am emulation of a song i can't actually hear)

[Dino Might]

Wildstreak, on 26 May 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

The Locust is no longer Underrated, I can do more damage even in a 1V than a Mist Lynx.

Mist Lynx is the new King of Underrated Mechs.

No, Mist Lynx is about as bad as it is rated. It can have some stellar games, but is by no means the make or break mech in any game. The Locust only becomes more underrated as its power intensifies while the "metamechs" build crowd continue to ignore it.

[Neutron IX]

HimseIf, on 26 May 2015 - 12:01 PM, said:

Snow glistens on the mountain top, no friendly lasers to be seen
So many radar ping, all of them look enemy
Don't let them know, don't let them see, a little locust sneaking creepily
No PPC, No AC5 or 10 for me

Blaze them all, sLase' them all
Poke and run away, shoot some more
Flame them all, cane them all
Meta game was such a bore
i don't care what my team mates say

L R M'z never bothered me anyway


(Am emulation of a song i can't actually hear)

I've got 3 daughters under the age of 10...believe me, I've heard it enough for all of us combined.

[3xnihilo]

Rip Snorgan, on 26 May 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

I've got 3 daughters under the age of 10...believe me, I've heard it enough for all of us combined.

Do you feel as though the universe is somehow mocking you when you can't even escape that song here on the Locust Thread.

[Neutron IX]

3xnihilo, on 26 May 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

Do you feel as though the universe is somehow mocking you when you can't even escape that song here on the Locust Thread.

It is kind of funny, right?

Even big stompy robots need Frozen parodies eh.

[Wildstreak]

Dino Might, on 26 May 2015 - 05:41 PM, said:

No, Mist Lynx is about as bad as it is rated. It can have some stellar games, but is by no means the make or break mech in any game. The Locust only becomes more underrated as its power intensifies while the "metamechs" build crowd continue to ignore it.

Do not mock the MLX-A, it is the Locust-1V, Spider-5K of the Clans.
Real Clanners drive the MLX-A to learn.
I am very proud of the Spider and Locust kill markers on my MLX-A.

Edited by Wildstreak, 27 May 2015 - 06:49 PM.

[loopala]

had to bail on locusts and IS this weekend do to the Clan challenge. so for a bit i will be a bear. which i was when CW first came out. that typed did a bit of puging today and once again i have mastered them all.

[Neutron IX]

loopala, on 27 May 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

had to bail on locusts and IS this weekend do to the Clan challenge. so for a bit i will be a bear. which i was when CW first came out. that typed did a bit of puging today and once again i have mastered them all.

Go loopala!

[Wildstreak]

Wildstreak, on 27 May 2015 - 06:35 AM, said:

Do not mock the MLX-A, it is the Locust-1V, Spider-5K of the Clans.
Real Clanners drive the MLX-A to learn.
I am very proud of the Spider and Locust kill markers on my MLX-A.

Fixed to the right variant.

[Bulletsponge0]

got a shiny new 3v from the giveaway...need builds for it now

[Ovion]

Bulletsponge0, on 28 May 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

got a shiny new 3v from the giveaway...need builds for it now

This is your Locust 3V Stock LCT-3V

This is how your Locust 3V wants to look Base LCT-3V (On the 3V, DHS are potentially optional, can certain get away with SHS for a while)

These are your options that I've got prepared:
3V Builds:
2MPL, 2MG LCT-3V
LPL LCT-3V
ERLL, 2MG LCT-3V
AC2 LCT-3V
ML, AC2 LCT-3V
MPL, TAG, 2MG, BAP LCT-3V
MPL, Flamer, 2MG LCT-3V

I like the 2MPL, 2MG and MPL, TAG, 2MG, BAP builds myself.
I should really add a 2ML build for those that like the concept of 2ML over MPL too...

If you have any questions, I will be happy to answer when I return from sleep if one of the other gents here hasn't already.

Edited by Ovion, 28 May 2015 - 03:24 PM.