172 replies to this topic

[Morsule]

Why is ECM over powered?

Its OP because the floating Mech Triangle is Over Powered. Without really looking at the environment and looking for a mech all you do is look for triangles. This behavior makes the ECM over powered for any mech with ECM or under the cover of has no floating triangle pointing at it going look what's here! Of course getting sniped a few times by ECM snipers helps to change the behavior.

Changing the triangle would greatly change the impact of ECM - teach players different behavior. How to do this? Removing them completely would probably make sniping extremely over powered. Yet, sniping w/o ECM is not as effective.

Someone else has probably already noted this but did not find it. If so a link o the conversation would be appreciated.

In support for items as mentioned elsewhere hard points need to have slot & tonnage limits. From all I recall of the rpg light mechs - like the spider's arm is not meant to be able to with stand the damage it would withstand every time an ac/2 or higher fired off. Not to mention the weight. Even its torso. There were a few designed like the hunchback to carry ballistic weapons beyond what that weight class would normally support. This should be in the mech design.

Cheers

[colsan]

This is just a symptom of the fact that ECM in this game works nothing like it does in previous MW games, TT Battletech, or real life.

You need to give up the illusion that this is a sci-fi game; it is fantasy, and ECM is magic. We just need new "magic" items to compensate.

How about a kind of necromancer mech, that uses focused magnetic fields to pick up the pieces of blown up mechs and use the weapons they dropped?

Or a conjurer mech, that calls in lots of smaller mechs, from "orbit," or whatever pseudoscience they want to make up to explain it. Port them in from an alternate dimension, or hyperspace or something.

Or even just a phlogistonic scanner, that lets you do, well, whatever you can think of

Once the rules have been thrown out, everything else is easy.

[Mister Blastman]

Wat?

[Deathlike]

Mister Blastman, on 15 January 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

Wat?

I'm pretty sure the OP was looking for the Triforce.

But really, the triangle is not OP... it's the people's intelligence in conjunction with PGI's vast array of tutorials that cover ECM only tutorial that covers movement.

[colsan]

Mister Blastman, on 15 January 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

Wat?

The little red triangle over your enemies' mechs, except for the ECM mechs. This is, of course, only one of the problems with ECM.

[Khobai]

The biggest problem with ECM is that it works like NSS but for your whole team. NSS is supposed to be a seperate piece of equipment entirely. And its only supposed to give stealth to you, not your whole team.

[Mister Blastman]

colsan, on 15 January 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

The little red triangle over your enemies' mechs, except for the ECM mechs. This is, of course, only one of the problems with ECM.

But I don't shoot triangles. I shoot robits.

You missed ECM when it was really bad. What we have now is extremely tame.

[Skyfaller]

Take a read: http://mwomercs.com/...-interactivity/

[Asmudius Heng]

Just give us passive and active sensors already so that stealth comes at a cost to your own sensors and change ECM to be something different.

But PGI will never change a complex mechanic onces it is introduced they only ever tinker on the sidelines convinced that the original implementation was 'almost right'

Where is passive and active sensors PGI ?

[Morsule]

Thanks Skyfaller - will do.

[990Dreams]

colsan, on 15 January 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

ECM in this game works nothing like it does in previous MW

And how?

[Lykaon]

Morsule, on 15 January 2014 - 12:08 PM, said:

Why is ECM over powered?

Its OP because the floating Mech Triangle is Over Powered. Without really looking at the environment and looking for a mech all you do is look for triangles. This behavior makes the ECM over powered for any mech with ECM or under the cover of has no floating triangle pointing at it going look what's here! Of course getting sniped a few times by ECM snipers helps to change the behavior.

Changing the triangle would greatly change the impact of ECM - teach players different behavior. How to do this? Removing them completely would probably make sniping extremely over powered. Yet, sniping w/o ECM is not as effective.

Someone else has probably already noted this but did not find it. If so a link o the conversation would be appreciated.

In support for items as mentioned elsewhere hard points need to have slot & tonnage limits. From all I recall of the rpg light mechs - like the spider's arm is not meant to be able to with stand the damage it would withstand every time an ac/2 or higher fired off. Not to mention the weight. Even its torso. There were a few designed like the hunchback to carry ballistic weapons beyond what that weight class would normally support. This should be in the mech design.

Cheers

So the solution to ECM jamming sensors and HUD displays is to nerf sensors and HUD displays?

[Lykaon]

Mister Blastman, on 15 January 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

But I don't shoot triangles. I shoot robits.

You missed ECM when it was really bad. What we have now is extremely tame.

Yet still over featured.

The grand total of actuall changes to effect ECM as a seperate entity are three.

One: fixed ECM hardpoints (does not alter any functions of the ECM you just have to put it in a specific location.Effectivley meaningless most of the mechs using ECM are either DDCs with large armor totals or light mechs with extreme evasive ability.

Two: ECM hit points reduced so it's destroyed more easily.Also effectivley meaningless because we play a game where 30-40 point alpha strikes are common place and entire body segments are destroyed with a click of the mouse.

Three: ECM no longer prevents players from detecting friendly mechs on the mini map and HUD.This is in fact the only real alteration to any of ECM's many features we have ever seen.One actual change to functionality is all we have after all this time.

PPCs,TAG,& BAP are all alterations to those systems to try to counter ECM only once was an ECM function adjusted or removed by altering ECM.

[Steel Claws]

Lykaon, on 15 January 2014 - 02:42 PM, said:

Yet still over featured.

The grand total of actuall changes to effect ECM as a seperate entity are three.

One: fixed ECM hardpoints (does not alter any functions of the ECM you just have to put it in a specific location.Effectivley meaningless most of the mechs using ECM are either DDCs with large armor totals or light mechs with extreme evasive ability.

Two: ECM hit points reduced so it's destroyed more easily.Also effectivley meaningless because we play a game where 30-40 point alpha strikes are common place and entire body segments are destroyed with a click of the mouse.

Three: ECM no longer prevents players from detecting friendly mechs on the mini map and HUD.This is in fact the only real alteration to any of ECM's many features we have ever seen.One actual change to functionality is all we have after all this time.

PPCs,TAG,& BAP are all alterations to those systems to try to counter ECM only once was an ECM function adjusted or removed by altering ECM.

Why. There are what, five mechs that can load ECM out of how many.... BAP, tag, or a PPC hit disables ECM. ECM module health was aleady reduced at least once.

As someone who frequently run a raven 3L I can tell you that I still get streak boated to death by everyone smart enough to load BAP. I still get LRMs shot at me by anyone smart enough to use tag. Other than that what use is it really? If your looking for triangles instead of looking at mechs than you deserve to be snuck up on. If you can't notice that low signal icon thats there then who's fault is that. ECM is barely worth taking as it is now. There is no need to nerf it completely into the ground.

I might also point out that none of the mechs that people concider the "Meta elite" mechs mount ECM. The only one hard to kill is the DDC and it is no tougher to kill than any other Atlas.

Edited by Steel Claws, 15 January 2014 - 04:04 PM.

[colsan]

DavidHurricane, on 15 January 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

And how?

It's supposed to counter BAP, Artemis, etc; not prevent lock-ons. Also, reducing detection range was fine, in the real Mechwarrior games, because it only decreased it to ~450m, and streaks still worked against it. 200m, with a 180m bubble where you can't use missiles, is just insane.

It's not supposed to counter TAG, either; even if you somehow manage to generate a field that interferes with lasers, it should be visible (lasers = light).

Again, this is some sort of alternate universe where the laws of physics are radically different. Don't even get me started on the heat issue.

[colsan]

Steel Claws, on 15 January 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

Why. There are what, five mechs that can load ECM out of how many....

Yes, only 5 out of ~111 mechs can carry ECM; 4% of mechs, and yet they show up in almost every match, and usually more than one. Why would that be, unless it was unduly powerful?

Steel Claws, on 15 January 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

BAP, tag, or a PPC hit disables ECM.

HAHAHAHAHA! Go on, pull the other one, it's got bells on!

Steel Claws, on 15 January 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

ECM module health was aleady reduced at least once.

Yay! So the mechs that you can't hit with anything will become vulnerable, once you hit them a few times....

I'll tell you what; let's stand 50 feet apart, me with a gun, and you with a stick, and I'll quit shooting at you once you knock the gun out of my hand with the stick. Your idea of balance....

Steel Claws, on 15 January 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

As someone who frequently run a raven 3L I can tell you that I still get streak boated to death by everyone smart enough to load BAP.

Pick one of the other ECM mechs on your team and stick with them. Happens to me all the time.

Steel Claws, on 15 January 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

I still get LRMs shot at me by anyone smart enough to use tag.

Why are you standing still long enough to get TAGed?

Steel Claws, on 15 January 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

Other than that what use is it really?

25% of players play less than 5% of the available mechs. Does that seem right to you?

[Roadbeer]

Wow, did we suddenly go back in time to April?
This thread is NEW and EXCITING

[DocBach]

and yet still relevant as ECM is still an overpowered system that outclasses the utility of any other information warfare piece.

[Khobai]

Quote

and yet still relevant as ECM is still an overpowered system that outclasses the utility of any other information warfare piece.

Yep ECM was never fixed. PGI just swept it under the rug and hoped wed forget about it. ECM is still absurdly overpowered for 1.5 tons, often dictates the entire flow of a game, and matchmaker doesnt even account for it.

[Roadbeer]

You're right... I have totally forgotten about it.