161 replies to this topic

[ZealotTheFallen]

My guild had 46 members many from the original CW multiplayerbattletech with lobbies. 4man destroyed our clan now it is gone because none that showed up could play as the limit just made them solo or be a smaller group. This is an antisocial game no where close to a team sport as is. And IMO they wanted to destroy the game to get rid of the people telling them this and just keep it (Call of mech machine) , Hoping to suck more cash from people who did not know the lore or the way the true original game was. I bet thats what they planned, leave it as it is now. But they saw their cash cows leave and now they are trying to do anything to get the players base back. And still not doing that great of a job continuing, dragging their feet as they have since they suckered the 5 million from us. They dug a hole and it is just getting deeper filling up with the BS they have promised us and losing people to all the other games out there, that are team based with lobbies etc.. Them crying they don't have the man power, well maybe if they did what they said to us at the start they would not be in this mess, would they? $5 million dollars would have helped thier employee problem.

Edited by ZealotTheFallen, 16 January 2014 - 10:28 PM.

[Roadbeer]

And that post started out so good...

[Bhael Fire]

When you form up a 2-12 man premade, expect to be matched against other 2-12 man premades....with the odd high Elo solo player thrown in to fill in the gaps.

I'm all for this, as long as they can get MM to work.

Premades vs Premades

Solo vs Solo

...and something in between.

[Pertinax75]

With integrated voice the impact would be lessened. Its really bad that isnt already in the game for a tactical game like MWO.

[Roadbeer]

Plenty of free VoIP servers available, no need to wait for integrated VoiP.
I keep hearing this, but what are you going to do when you find yourself teamed with a 10 player premade, none of whom want to use the integrated software because they can't select who they have to listen to and are on their own TS server anyway?

[Radbane]

Who says that the matches has to be filled with 24 players? Maybe this is a way for teams who want to fight eachother but have problems filling a 12-man to actually setup matches like 2-12 vs 2-12 without any pugs to fill the whole team, while the ordinary queue keeps it 4-man limit on groups. What I'm saying is that this maybe just affects the forced 12-man queue to allow 2-12 men? (Even oddities like 8vs6 for example, where the Matchmaker tries to balance lower Elo players against fewer higher Elo players)

Just a thought...

If that's the case, it's a good idea. If old-school pugstomping comes back I'll probably give up on this game, and I bet that I won't be alone.

Edited by Radbane, 16 January 2014 - 11:18 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

Roadbeer, on 16 January 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

but what are you going to do when you find yourself teamed with a 10 player premade, none of whom want to use the integrated software because they can't select who they have to listen to and are on their own TS server anyway?

Talk to the other player via VOIP instead of typing via chat.

Integrated VOIP is a must have.

[Radbane]

Another thought though... It's intresting to see so many players claim that not being able to play in big groups made them leave the game etc, yet there was 8vs8 but it was not very popular. Makes me think these team elites never wanted fair fights. They wanted pugstomping. Or maybe there weren't so many group-oriented players afterall as some claim there was (someone said thousands) *shrugs*

[Deathlike]

Radbane, on 16 January 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

PS: Another thought though... It's intresting to see so many players claim that not being able to play in big groups made them leave the game etc, yet there was 8vs8 but it was not very popular. Makes me think these team elites never wanted fair fights. They wanted pugstomping. Or maybe there weren't so many group-oriented players afterall as some claim there was (someone said thousands) *shrugs*

It was not about popularity. It's actually more about "just doing it". You have to get 8 people that are willing to coordinate AND set up mech builds AND hope there's another 8 people to be on the other end. It's far easier than to get 12 people, but the entire thing demanded a lot more from you.. from a competitive standpoint BUT ALSO from a "does your group have enough people to keep playing it" type of issue.

Pugstomping is unstandable, but irrational fears about those groups "out to get you" instead of not pondering "why couldn't our group do better" is part of the problematic thinking here.

People want to play together, but when you only have 5-7 players on instead of 8 or 4, this becomes a problem. People don't magically come on because you can summon them (they have lives too).

Edited by Deathlike, 16 January 2014 - 11:20 PM.

[Asmosis]

Roadbeer, on 16 January 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

Sorry, but the ability to play with as many of my friends as possible trumps the hurt feelings of those who can't be bothered to form a group.

It may be cold, but the removal of min/max group forming has driven more people from this game than any other misstep since inception.

full premades vs pugs drove more players away than anything else, that's why they removed it in the first place (the one and only thing they sat back and said "woah, they really are leaving!").

If they can fix their MM to ensure the same amount of premades are on both sides that'd be fine, but we know that wont happen so net effect, pugs get driven from the game just like last time. Your sorely mistaken if you think premade teams make up over half the playerbase as well, although that will be true eventually if they do this.

Exactly why it MUST be one or the other is a bit obscure though. better to have two modes instead of losing half the playerbase. Impose the tonnage limits and keep the two queues separate like they are now. Then the only excuse 12-man teams can use is "but I want to pug-stomp"

Edited by Asmosis, 16 January 2014 - 11:25 PM.

[Deathlike]

Asmosis, on 16 January 2014 - 11:20 PM, said:

full premades vs pugs drove more players away than anything else, that's why they removed it in the first place (the one and only thing they sat back and said "woah, they really are leaving!").

If they can fix their MM to ensure the same amount of premades are on both sides that'd be fine, but we know that wont happen so net effect, pugs get driven from the game just like last time. Your sorely mistaken if you think premade teams make up over half the playerbase as well, although that will be true eventually if they do this.

I think the problem to a degree is that in the effort that PGI is kinda focused in getting the casual player instead of creating a dedicated player. Casual players tend to solo PUG, but occasionally bring a friend or two for smaller premades. So, when we consider such a population, the solo PUG tends to be a newbie.

If the solo PUG is exposed to bigger premades, they may actually be more likely to want to join a group... kinda like back in the MW3/MW4 days where you see a lot of players/premades that have a unit affiliation and try to have fun and learn a few things.

I'm not saying all solo PUGs or newbies feel this way, but personally it would trend more in a positive direction over time (despite lowering the solo PUG population) because people are coming back in force/groups. Those who solo PUG will have their reasons... rational or irrational they may be.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Bhael Fire, on 16 January 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

Talk to the other player via VOIP instead of typing via chat.

Integrated VOIP is a must have.

It's not in any other FPS shooter.

Like I said before...if you're the LNW on a team of 10 or whatever...it's easy to follow along with their gameplan frankly. Just follow, focus fire and don't run off. VOIP would be helpful but it's not required. Ingame VOIPs from other games, I always just disabled anyway....didn't want to listen to the crybabies and trash talk as I tried to relax and enjoy whatever game it was.

[Roadbeer]

Radbane, on 16 January 2014 - 11:19 PM, said:

It's intresting to see so many players claim that not being able to play in big groups made them leave the game etc, yet there was 8vs8 but it was not very popular.

The problem with that is, and is the same as the 12 player group is that it doesn't allow you to build or hold a group under the cap level. If someone logged out, or people got tired waiting to reach the cap level, you were stuck with multiple smaller groups and may not ever get the max group size.

Say you start with four, the a couple guys come on, you have six, few more come on, you work up to 12. Then someone has to leave, your group doesn't break until that 12th player comes on, you can operate with 11. Way it stands now, you have to break your group apart until you can get that 12th player again.

Trust me, it sucks ***

[Radbane]

That's why I think (and hope) that this 2-12 maybe just affects the forced 12-player groups... to allow a bigger variations of teams vs teams so it's easier to setup fights

[Bhael Fire]

Lukoi, on 16 January 2014 - 11:29 PM, said:

It's not in any other FPS shooter.

What isn't? VOIP?

[Deathlike]

Radbane, on 16 January 2014 - 11:36 PM, said:

That's why I think (and hope) that this 2-12 maybe just affects the forced 12-player groups... to allow a bigger variations of teams vs teams so it's easier to setup fights

I doubt a true 12-man will be facing a complete group of PUGs.

"Ideally", a 12-man would be matched up with multiple premades (preferably one with a big premade size between 8 and 11 or two groups of 5 or 6-man premades) with 1 or 2 solo PUGs at most. Of course, their "ELOs" would be on the level... but... this is unlikely to happen.

Edited by Deathlike, 16 January 2014 - 11:52 PM.

[Fooooo]

Roadbeer, on 16 January 2014 - 10:55 PM, said:

Plenty of free VoIP servers available, no need to wait for integrated VoiP.
I keep hearing this, but what are you going to do when you find yourself teamed with a 10 player premade, none of whom want to use the integrated software because they can't select who they have to listen to and are on their own TS server anyway?

I'm guessing this 10 player premade is then going to give this solo player their TS details and password (not every group / clan / corp will use the ngng servers or other ones like that etc) so they can join during the countdown to match start ?

Then leave their TS after the match and repeat this process constantly.........?

Integrated voip would solve that issue because nobody has to tell anyone a server or password, the 10 man can just have 1 guy turn on the in game voip and let the solo players know wtf is going to happen etc. Likewise the solo players can at least communicate with 1 of the group who can relay if needed or just mute the solo players after inital info at start.


Anyway, im all for open sizes on groups as long as it will make sure it matches the sizes 1-1, or like others have said maybe a +1/-1.

It would also however be nice to have a solo only queue as well (so then somewhat 3 queues, premade only is basically an option in the lobby system, solo queue only, solo/premade mix.),

However without the population numbers we don't know how that would work. As PGI has not ever done this it probably shows they are not high enough.

Edited by Fooooo, 16 January 2014 - 11:58 PM.

[Deathlike]

Fooooo, on 16 January 2014 - 11:56 PM, said:

I'm guessing this 10 player premade is then going to give this solo player their TS details and password (not every group / clan / corp will use the ngng servers or other ones like that etc) so they can join during the countdown to match start ?

Then leave their TS after the match and repeat this process constantly.........?

TBH, most of the time when 12-mans are attempted, people are asked in advance and these things are usually provided before a match is launched into. I doubt this behavior would change.

Quote

Integrated voip would solve that issue because nobody has to tell anyone a server or password, the 10 man can just have 1 guy turn on the in game voip and let the solo players know wtf is going to happen etc. Likewise the solo players can at least communicate with 1 of the group who can relay if needed or just mute the solo players after inital info at start.

The biggest #1 problem of integrated VOIP is trolling. Yes, you will also need to have the tools to mute the player forever and that is normally the solution... but people don't usually troll like that on private coms (including NGNG/Comstar). Having played games that feature integrated VOIP (like CounterStrike), it's not entirely optimal. Might as well run Chatroulette.

Also remember that not all players speak English. This is another factor to consider.

I'd rather have in-game voice/chat macros... at least that would improve communication.

Edited by Deathlike, 17 January 2014 - 12:11 AM.

[OneEyed Jack]

Roadbeer, on 16 January 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

The problem with that is, and is the same as the 12 player group is that it doesn't allow you to build or hold a group under the cap level. If someone logged out, or people got tired waiting to reach the cap level, you were stuck with multiple smaller groups and may not ever get the max group size.

Say you start with four, the a couple guys come on, you have six, few more come on, you work up to 12. Then someone has to leave, your group doesn't break until that 12th player comes on, you can operate with 11. Way it stands now, you have to break your group apart until you can get that 12th player again.

Trust me, it sucks ***

Or just do what you all keep advocating and jump on a TS server to pick up people to fill the slots. It's a BS argument, because you could always do it if that was really the issue. That way you could even be somewhat selective in who you picked up, and they'd be on comms with you, rather than X number of solos or smaller groups not on your comms filling the gaps.

[Logen Ninefingers]

So is there really anybody who has a problem with a premade queue with CW and weightlimits and e.g. 6+3+3 or 12 vs 8+3+1(pug who opted for this queue) and a pug only queue without CW and weight limits (maybe only half xps) e.g. 12 solo atlases vs 12 solo whatever?

I do not get this "you've to play like I want you to" I keep reading from guys of both sides of this argument who really should know better....


P.S: I just thought about that pug in a 11+1 who is told in the readyroom / dropship that because of weightlimits he should drive a locust and not his 100ton mech, because the 11 are from a leet clan with 500+ members and he should shut up and do whats ordered.....

Edited by Kottlewski, 17 January 2014 - 03:48 AM.