I just don't think there is anything wrong with the Oxide. In it's role (light hunter), it is supremely effective. Role warfare is good. I don't think we need mechs that can "do it all", and I don't think PGI needs that either (they need us to buy more special purpose mechs, not fewer "do it all" mechs). If Russ is worried about non-viable mechs, he should drop a few matches in a Pretty Baby.
So I voted for agility buffs. I feel like adding anything to the Oxide will end up making it less effective (e.g. adding energy slots and removing missile slots). It's the missile slots that make this thing a little monster. If you add lasers, every other Jenner will smoke it.
5
How To Fix The Oxide (Russ Says It Needs Love, So Let's Hear How!)
Started by Bishop Steiner, Jan 18 2014 09:42 AM
108 replies to this topic
#42
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Posted 18 January 2014 - 05:46 PM
Flying Judgement, on 18 January 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:
Cicada 5X it isnt on the pool and it need some love
Disagree. X-5 is well balanced Mech.
#43
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Posted 18 January 2014 - 05:50 PM
luxebo, on 18 January 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:
But they're both in CT, including those missiles, so it's gonna be a weak version of the Jenner D? I say no. Jenner K is already that kinda version.
ya maybe
but i was comparing it to the Com 2D
#44
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Posted 18 January 2014 - 06:11 PM
Perhaps the Poll should have the option: "What has Russ been smoking?"
#45
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Posted 18 January 2014 - 07:39 PM
The Oxide is effectively an illustration of not following the metagame.
There was a time when the oxide would have been extremely strong.. A time when a mech's value could essentially be boiled down to how many missile hardpoints it had.
But that time has long since passed.
There was a time when the oxide would have been extremely strong.. A time when a mech's value could essentially be boiled down to how many missile hardpoints it had.
But that time has long since passed.
#46
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Posted 18 January 2014 - 08:38 PM
Curccu, on 18 January 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:
I wouldn't mind that but it doesn't mean it really needs buff to be decent 
it is good, but it is about the most limited (well it and the Death Knell) Hero for customization capability. I love my WANG, but let's be honest, you basically have 2 choices, SpeedWang (my preference) with AC20, 300XL and 2 medium pulse, or ZombieWang, which is pretty much the same, just slower with a Standard engine. You got a few kooks using Gauss, but really those are the only "legit" builds out there. I'm thinking mostly I would simply like to see it updated to the Kai Allard Liao version, and have the energy points in the left arm, which then gives one some options. Or an either /or style, where either you can have the classic model, or the updated, but not both. IDK.... I love mine, but it is limited.
#47
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Posted 18 January 2014 - 08:44 PM
Goose of Prey, on 18 January 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:
OK maybe you should turn off Fox "News" for a bit.
i don't watch fox news. But I also don't believe businesses are run on faerie dust. I do believe that IGP has more marketing people tracking this, who know more about what is trending, than you or Roland, or the rest of the "give it all to us for free" crowd. Maybe you should stop reading USAToday?
NRP, on 18 January 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:
I just don't think there is anything wrong with the Oxide. In it's role (light hunter), it is supremely effective. Role warfare is good. I don't think we need mechs that can "do it all", and I don't think PGI needs that either (they need us to buy more special purpose mechs, not fewer "do it all" mechs). If Russ is worried about non-viable mechs, he should drop a few matches in a Pretty Baby.
So I voted for agility buffs. I feel like adding anything to the Oxide will end up making it less effective (e.g. adding energy slots and removing missile slots). It's the missile slots that make this thing a little monster. If you add lasers, every other Jenner will smoke it.
So I voted for agility buffs. I feel like adding anything to the Oxide will end up making it less effective (e.g. adding energy slots and removing missile slots). It's the missile slots that make this thing a little monster. If you add lasers, every other Jenner will smoke it.
um... so by adding features it becomes weaker? We are not talking trading missiles for lasers, but adding.,?
#48
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Posted 19 January 2014 - 12:31 AM
Quote
I do believe that IGP has more marketing people tracking this, who know more about what is trending, than you or Roland
Seriously you really think that? I disagree but that’s conversation for another thread. However, I do agree with you on the Oxid. A laser HP in the head would be an obvious buff and wouldn’t decrease effectiveness.
#49
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Posted 19 January 2014 - 04:18 AM
I very much dislike the idea of adding ballistics. I think mechs need flavour and the Jenners flavour is energy and missile.
e.g. I think it was a horrible idea to give the Misery a ballistics HP. Sure it it strong and fun, but where is the flavour?
So my take: add an energy HP in the head section, add jump jets and the oxide will be fine. (I got one so I know how it feels right now)
Next hero mech? Are you kiddin? The Pretty Baby is the single worst piece of scrap metal out there.
People rant a lot about the GB, but at least it is not considerably worse than every other variant.
Okay it has 1 missle less in the CT, but overall there are still so many missile HPs that you can find builds for it.
e.g. I think it was a horrible idea to give the Misery a ballistics HP. Sure it it strong and fun, but where is the flavour?
So my take: add an energy HP in the head section, add jump jets and the oxide will be fine. (I got one so I know how it feels right now)
Next hero mech? Are you kiddin? The Pretty Baby is the single worst piece of scrap metal out there.
People rant a lot about the GB, but at least it is not considerably worse than every other variant.
Okay it has 1 missle less in the CT, but overall there are still so many missile HPs that you can find builds for it.
#50
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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:21 AM
Bishop Steiner, on 18 January 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:
um... so by adding features it becomes weaker? We are not talking trading missiles for lasers, but adding.,?
Well, it sounded to me like some are suggesting that would be necessary so the Oxide doesn't end up with more hard points than other mechs.
Anyway, why does the Oxide need to be a more flexible Jenner? It's as "inflexible" as the Jenner F, but no one is complaining about that one. There is currently quite a lot of variety in the Jenner lineup, which imo is one of the better mech lineups in the game.
And if the sales of the Oxide aren't meeting projections, it might just mean that lights in general don't sell as well as larger mechs. But I suppose that's a topic for another thread.
On another note, I saw Russ in a match the other day. I wish I was in my Oxide as I would have loved to go after him with it, just to show him what "non viable" looks like from the other side.
#51
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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:26 AM
Oxide - 3 Missiles (1 LA, 1 RA, 1 CT) 1 Ballistic CT, 1 Energy head.
Pretty Baby - Remove penalty slowing down, + Missile, energy or ballistic hard point anywhere (but head)
Death Knell - x2 AMS
Grid iron - Remove 1 ballistc and add +1 missile.
Pretty Baby - Remove penalty slowing down, + Missile, energy or ballistic hard point anywhere (but head)
Death Knell - x2 AMS
Grid iron - Remove 1 ballistc and add +1 missile.
#52
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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:40 AM
Thing is though the oxide doesn't need a buff it is competitive.
As I've said before its a rare game I don't get around 400 damage.
Also I had to pick jump jets even though it doesn't need them, it would be number two on my list, as the only thing that's really wrong with it is it accelerates slower to max speed than other jenners.
The only real choice of a hero needing a buff is the pretty baby, but its unlikely to get one as awesomes had their hit box review a while back, and what else can you do with it other than maybe put the left torso energy weapon mount up a little higher.
The only other hero that might genuinely need some loving is an engine size increase for the golden boy.
The others just don't need buffs or changes they really don't, as in most cases the claims of this mech needs a buff is just a person dislike of what it has, or a desire to have preferred build, in it, which it currently can't fit.
As I've said before its a rare game I don't get around 400 damage.
Also I had to pick jump jets even though it doesn't need them, it would be number two on my list, as the only thing that's really wrong with it is it accelerates slower to max speed than other jenners.
The only real choice of a hero needing a buff is the pretty baby, but its unlikely to get one as awesomes had their hit box review a while back, and what else can you do with it other than maybe put the left torso energy weapon mount up a little higher.
The only other hero that might genuinely need some loving is an engine size increase for the golden boy.
The others just don't need buffs or changes they really don't, as in most cases the claims of this mech needs a buff is just a person dislike of what it has, or a desire to have preferred build, in it, which it currently can't fit.
Edited by Cathy, 19 January 2014 - 09:40 AM.
#53
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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:40 AM
NRP, on 19 January 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:
Well, it sounded to me like some are suggesting that would be necessary so the Oxide doesn't end up with more hard points than other mechs.
Anyway, why does the Oxide need to be a more flexible Jenner? It's as "inflexible" as the Jenner F, but no one is complaining about that one. There is currently quite a lot of variety in the Jenner lineup, which imo is one of the better mech lineups in the game.
And if the sales of the Oxide aren't meeting projections, it might just mean that lights in general don't sell as well as larger mechs. But I suppose that's a topic for another thread.
On another note, I saw Russ in a match the other day. I wish I was in my Oxide as I would have loved to go after him with it, just to show him what "non viable" looks like from the other side.
Anyway, why does the Oxide need to be a more flexible Jenner? It's as "inflexible" as the Jenner F, but no one is complaining about that one. There is currently quite a lot of variety in the Jenner lineup, which imo is one of the better mech lineups in the game.
And if the sales of the Oxide aren't meeting projections, it might just mean that lights in general don't sell as well as larger mechs. But I suppose that's a topic for another thread.
On another note, I saw Russ in a match the other day. I wish I was in my Oxide as I would have loved to go after him with it, just to show him what "non viable" looks like from the other side.
actually, the Jenner F is more flexible, because it still has JJs, and lasers never run out of ammo. And it's not like, at 35 tons, the Oxide can become the feared SplatCat made mini. The point, and I agree with Russ on it, is the trade offs to avoid the OP and P2W arguments were a little more than needed, much like the PPC nerf was a little more than truly needed by upping heat, slowing the projectile AND removing the ramping damage under 90 meters.
It doesn't need to be a do everything Jenner, it just needs to actually be on par with the other Jenners. And last I checked, every other Jenner has 5-6 hardpoints, vs the Oxide's 4.
So less hardpoints, totally ammo dependant, no JJs, worse torso Yaw, and not sure, but I think it has worse deceleration/braking? (could be wrong on that one, need to dig a little deeper). So far, seems overall to be a tad inferior, in every way. Even as a Streaker, a second ECM totally neuters it. So does it need JJs? Not necessarily. But if it doesn't have those, it should have at least 1-2 more hardpoints to bring it closer to being on par with the others.
#54
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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:46 AM
Cathy, on 19 January 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:
Thing is though the oxide doesn't need a buff it is competitive.
As I've said before its a rare game I don't get around 400 damage.
Also I had to pick jump jets even though it doesn't need them, it would be number two on my list, as the only thing that's really wrong with it is it accelerates slower to max speed than other jenners.
I
The only real choice of a hero needing a buff is the pretty baby, but its unlikely to get one as awesomes had their hit box review a while back, and what else can you do with it other than maybe put the left torso energy weapon mount up a little higher.
The only other hero that might genuinely need some loving is an engine size increase for the golden boy.
The others just don't need buffs or changes they really don't, as in most cases the claims of this mech needs a buff is just a person dislike of what it has, or a desire to have preferred build, in it, which it currently can't fit.
As I've said before its a rare game I don't get around 400 damage.
Also I had to pick jump jets even though it doesn't need them, it would be number two on my list, as the only thing that's really wrong with it is it accelerates slower to max speed than other jenners.
I
The only real choice of a hero needing a buff is the pretty baby, but its unlikely to get one as awesomes had their hit box review a while back, and what else can you do with it other than maybe put the left torso energy weapon mount up a little higher.
The only other hero that might genuinely need some loving is an engine size increase for the golden boy.
The others just don't need buffs or changes they really don't, as in most cases the claims of this mech needs a buff is just a person dislike of what it has, or a desire to have preferred build, in it, which it currently can't fit.
IDK, i think the missile racks on the left arm of the Pretty Baby not being so restricted would be a start. Fix it's braking deficit? Add a 4th energy hardpoint, either to the right arm, or the left torso? A lot of things could be done to make the PB a lot more viable, even if the basic art design likely will never have them truly able to compete.
Golden Boy absolutely needs a higher engine cap. It's pretty blatantly the worst KNT, much as the FANG is far and away the worst Dragon.
As for the Oxide, whether an experience player can make it work, or it is "fine" have long been two totally different things. I have long made the YLW, HBK-4G and JagerMechs "work" in 12 man Comp play. That is a far cry from them being on even footing, overall, with other mechs used, like the HGN, VTR, CTF-3D, etc.
#55
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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:55 AM
Carrioncrows, on 19 January 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:
Oxide - 3 Missiles (1 LA, 1 RA, 1 CT) 1 Ballistic CT, 1 Energy head.
Pretty Baby - Remove penalty slowing down, + Missile, energy or ballistic hard point anywhere (but head)
Death Knell - x2 AMS
Grid iron - Remove 1 ballistc and add +1 missile.
Pretty Baby - Remove penalty slowing down, + Missile, energy or ballistic hard point anywhere (but head)
Death Knell - x2 AMS
Grid iron - Remove 1 ballistc and add +1 missile.
I'm still using your gauss/erppc build on my Treb K7
Admit it you just want to make a cheesy zombie build based around paired srm6 for the Gridiron with an ultra 5ac
#56
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Posted 19 January 2014 - 09:56 AM
Cathy, on 19 January 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:
I'm still using your gauss/erppc build on my Treb K7
Admit it you just want to make a cheesy zombie build based around paired srm6 for the Gridiron with an ultra 5ac
you say that like it's a BAD thing? (I been wanting to do something similar......)
#57
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Posted 19 January 2014 - 10:00 AM
Cathy, on 19 January 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:
I'm still using your gauss/erppc build on my Treb K7
Admit it you just want to make a cheesy zombie build based around paired srm6 for the Gridiron with an ultra 5ac
lol, that might be true if the jenner ever got hit in the side torso's.
I have a thread around here somewhere about fixing that as to make the jenner tougher...
#58
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Posted 19 January 2014 - 10:22 AM
As said in another thread, as an owner I`d be okay with:
1. + full JJ suite
2. 5 Missile Hardpoints (add head or move 1 to arm/torso and mirror), possibly with 2-3 JJs
3. all missiles moved to arms or side torsos, 2 ballistic HPs center torso, possibly with 2-3 JJs
4. + 1 ballistic HP in head with 2-3 JJs
5. + Energy HP in head, possibly with 2-3 JJs
6. Second AMS hardpoint + JJs (just to annoy Garth)
Reworks I`m definitely NOT OK with, either because they miss the point of the mech or becasue they could /would be OP
-1. Adding more than 1 energy HP, esp with JJs
-2. 6 Missile HPs w/JJ (6 missile HPs w/o MAYBE if extensive testing shows it`s truly not OP, which I do believe it might be)
-3. Torso ballistics at all. Especially 2 of them. Dual big-bore cheese jenner? really? *facepalm*
-4. Energy slots in side torso or arms. The mech does not need a PPC
-5. ECM. IMO no hero mech should ever get ECM unless at least 2 F2P variants can also carry it. Even less a predestined streak boat.
1. + full JJ suite
2. 5 Missile Hardpoints (add head or move 1 to arm/torso and mirror), possibly with 2-3 JJs
3. all missiles moved to arms or side torsos, 2 ballistic HPs center torso, possibly with 2-3 JJs
4. + 1 ballistic HP in head with 2-3 JJs
5. + Energy HP in head, possibly with 2-3 JJs
6. Second AMS hardpoint + JJs (just to annoy Garth
)Reworks I`m definitely NOT OK with, either because they miss the point of the mech or becasue they could /would be OP
-1. Adding more than 1 energy HP, esp with JJs
-2. 6 Missile HPs w/JJ (6 missile HPs w/o MAYBE if extensive testing shows it`s truly not OP, which I do believe it might be)
-3. Torso ballistics at all. Especially 2 of them. Dual big-bore cheese jenner? really? *facepalm*
-4. Energy slots in side torso or arms. The mech does not need a PPC
-5. ECM. IMO no hero mech should ever get ECM unless at least 2 F2P variants can also carry it. Even less a predestined streak boat.
Edited by Zerberus, 19 January 2014 - 10:23 AM.
#59
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Posted 19 January 2014 - 10:30 AM
Zerberus, on 19 January 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:
As said in another thread, as an owner I`d be okay with:
1. + full JJ suite
2. 5 Missile Hardpoints (add head or move 1 to arm/torso and mirror), possibly with 2-3 JJs
3. all missiles moved to arms or side torsos, 2 ballistic HPs center torso, possibly with 2-3 JJs
4. + 1 ballistic HP in head with 2-3 JJs
5. + Energy HP in head, possibly with 2-3 JJs
6. Second AMS hardpoint + JJs (just to annoy Garth)
Reworks I`m definitely NOT OK with, either because they miss the point of the mech or becasue they could /would be OP
-1. Adding more than 1 energy HP, esp with JJs
-2. 6 Missile HPs w/JJ (6 missile HPs w/o MAYBE if extensive testing shows it`s truly not OP, which I do believe it might be)
-3. Torso ballistics at all. Especially 2 of them. Dual big-bore cheese jenner? really? *facepalm*
-4. Energy slots in side torso or arms. The mech does not need a PPC
-5. ECM. IMO no hero mech should ever get ECM unless at least 2 F2P variants can also carry it. Even less a predestined streak boat.
1. + full JJ suite
2. 5 Missile Hardpoints (add head or move 1 to arm/torso and mirror), possibly with 2-3 JJs
3. all missiles moved to arms or side torsos, 2 ballistic HPs center torso, possibly with 2-3 JJs
4. + 1 ballistic HP in head with 2-3 JJs
5. + Energy HP in head, possibly with 2-3 JJs
6. Second AMS hardpoint + JJs (just to annoy Garth
)Reworks I`m definitely NOT OK with, either because they miss the point of the mech or becasue they could /would be OP
-1. Adding more than 1 energy HP, esp with JJs
-2. 6 Missile HPs w/JJ (6 missile HPs w/o MAYBE if extensive testing shows it`s truly not OP, which I do believe it might be)
-3. Torso ballistics at all. Especially 2 of them. Dual big-bore cheese jenner? really? *facepalm*
-4. Energy slots in side torso or arms. The mech does not need a PPC
-5. ECM. IMO no hero mech should ever get ECM unless at least 2 F2P variants can also carry it. Even less a predestined streak boat.
35 tons doesn't exactly contribute to dual big bores..... but I agree with the gist of the comment. Though, dual ballistic CT would be ok by me.
#60
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Posted 19 January 2014 - 10:36 AM
Roland, on 18 January 2014 - 11:24 AM, said:
The whole notion of mechs that you can only buy using real money is a bad aspect of this game which should be done away with.
*cough* WoT. *cough* successful business model and game developer *cough*
Yes you're right we should absolutely do away with the notion of the "pay-for-mechs". Because I'm sure PGI can continue to develop MW:O on bake sales, charity and government grants.
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