322 replies to this topic

[Chronojam]

Smokeyjedi, on 26 January 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

And knockdown is gone, I can just imagine the sheer volume of whiners whining about the fact that someone tripped them and the entire team plugged their prone corpse to death......"getting tripped gives me headaches", let me toggle it.

Seriouspost: Ghost Heat gives me headaches.

I await its removal.

Edited by Chronojam, 26 January 2014 - 09:31 AM.

[Imperius]

To all those who said no one asked for this feature you're wrong. I know I did back in closed beta, it's step one of rain on the glass, damage, and other effects. This un-announced feature is one of the best added to this game yet. I'm here for immersion entertainment and big mech stomping not MLG call of duty pro!

To those claiming it's giving you a headache. I'm going to call BS! Do you have motion blur on, do you have v-sync off? These two things would have a greater chance of causing headaches more than a little dirt shine and nicks on the glass.

Then there is those that complain to complain, please shut up or just quit the game you claim you hate so much! I'm tired of reading cry after cry of entailment and my money blah blah blah....

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

Imperius, on 26 January 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

To all those who said no one asked for this feature you're wrong. I know I did back in closed beta, it's step one of rain on the glass, damage, and other effects. This un-announced feature is one of the best added to this game yet. I'm here for immersion entertainment and big mech stomping not MLG call of duty pro!

To those claiming it's giving you a headache. I'm going to call BS! Do you have motion blur on, do you have v-sync off? These two things would have a greater chance of causing headaches more than a little dirt shine and nicks on the glass.

Then there is those that complain to complain, please shut up or just quit the game you claim you hate so much! I'm tired of reading cry after cry of entailment and my money blah blah blah....

if it isnt affecting you, you can post 'i like it' and not be a troll,looks like your just complaining about complainers

[Captain Stern]

The difference is clear, we are posting because we cannot PLAY, that's upsetting to us. He's posting to be a troll, "I call BS", well THAT magically made my headache disappear. IMPERIUS, straight question... You say your unaffected, so how does it hurt you if WE get to be unaffected ? No BS troll answer, just answer.

[B0oN]

So, after finally getting through this morass of answers from my post on I have a serious question to those affected from "headaches/dizziness/nausea/burning eyes-sensation" :

Could you guys give me the in-game used refresh rates of your display units and your average-over-time FPS (let´s say try and estimate the average FPS of the last 7 days of playing in "min|max|avg." Form) ? Plus if wearing glasses, and when these were last new (<-- important ! ) .

Ineresting, interesting ...


Oh, and that funny mesh error in the Stalker ?
Must have overlooked that, since I haven´t been driving my Stalkers often lately, sorry fo´ that

[Rushin Roulette]

Well, there is a really easy fix for this. Go to your local optician and ask him if you need glasses (People complaining about eyestrain is a very good indicator that they are either playing in the wrong lighting conditions or need glasses/a different strength of glasses).

If that doesnt help, then you could always use the lostech version of reducing the affects of motion/eye strain induced nausea.

Spoiler

[Naduk]

ALL ON or ALL OFF
^ this

i like the effect, others dont, i get it

tip
if your effected by motions sickness , play in short bursts, eat food or munch on chewing gum when playing or affected by motion sickness, eventually you will become immune to it
also ensure your game is running at frame rates of over 25fps

this game does not need to be plagued by a myriad of options until it is watered down so much there is only 5 people to play with because everyone else is playing their own special stupid version of the game

i want to play with glass and its future improvements and i dont want to be forced to fight against people NOT using it
its the Low Vs high gfx argument x1000

if the effect is really causing you problems lobby to have it changed
a simple clear (no scratches) area in the center of each pane of glass would likely do the job
its exactly the same as having the cockpit frames you have been playing on for the past years with out complaint !!!!

if this new system is really effecting you bad, play in third person until the glass gets adjusted
because you know it will , its only just been added, just like everything else it will get refined and passed over by the art team

its not really that big a deal, a cockpit has glass (look at the jets in bf4)
there is no need for all the drama queening that is going on

Edited by Naduk, 27 January 2014 - 06:32 AM.

[CGB Behemoth]

Got headache & nose bleeding after trying to play some matches after last patch. My eyes just hurt much now. Don't play anymore.

[Tekadept]

Rad Hanzo, on 27 January 2014 - 05:50 AM, said:

Could you guys give me the in-game used refresh rates of your display units and your average-over-time FPS (let´s say try and estimate the average FPS of the last 7 days of playing in "min|max|avg." Form) ? Plus if wearing glasses, and when these were last new (<-- important ! ) .

Just for giggles You can haz mine, 60hz 1920x1080 fps 60/60/60 vsync glasses/contacts 3mths since last eye checkup.

played every night just about sinced close beta but now suffer nausea and malaise, I have found, default FOV onset is VERY quick. I have adjusted by FOV to 85 and It is "MARGINALLY" better, play a match or 2 tops before onset. If i take a rest for a few hours or a day and try again back at normal FOV very quick effect, just to rule out me "getting used to it" So widening the cockpit does help a little so ppl with mild issues could try that.

I can play other games that have a clear "glass" ie falcon 4 a few racing games absolutely no problems, and i can handle FPS games no problems, however I cannot handle hawken with its glass, and now MWO, is it the scratches? is is the scratches combined with the motion I dunno.

Nausea aside, i think it is a ugly thing to do the game, but i really wouldn't care all that much..

[Rushin Roulette]

Behemothk, on 27 January 2014 - 06:32 AM, said:

Got headache & nose bleeding after trying to play some matches after last patch. My eyes just hurt much now. Don't play anymore.

You really should look up a doctor regarding this... bleeding noses are not a symptom of focal problems which would cause motion sickness. Either you are inventing {Scrap} or you are genuinely sick and require urgent medical attention.

[CGB Behemoth]

I had such problem with old ELT monitors. Maybe it's from my astigmatism, or FPS drop to 32-45. I don't know and prefer not to play sometime. For sure i'll go to doctor.

[smokefield]

easiest fix - toggle. you like it..keep it. you don't like it. off it. like 3th person. no one asked the immersion of 3th person yet tehy still introduced it even if 90% of the ppl were complaining (except the silent majority lol). therefore is not hard to do a toggle for glass also.

[LastPaladin]

Tarzilman, on 23 January 2014 - 08:58 PM, said:

A big NO to the option to turn cockpit glass on/off!
That's kind of legal cheating. Why should someone turn it on, if he would get a disatvantage?

If the cockpit glass is fine and there is no problem with it, then why would you be at a disadvantage by keeping it on?

When you say that putting in a toggle gives you a disadvantage, you are admitting that something is very wrong with the cockpit glass, if it obscures your vision so badly.

[B0oN]

Spoiler

Tekadept, on 27 January 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Just for giggles You can haz mine, 60hz 1920x1080 fps 60/60/60 vsync glasses/contacts 3mths since last eye checkup.

played every night just about sinced close beta but now suffer nausea and malaise, I have found, default FOV onset is VERY quick. I have adjusted by FOV to 85 and It is &quot;MARGINALLY&quot; better, play a match or 2 tops before onset. If i take a rest for a few hours or a day and try again back at normal FOV very quick effect, just to rule out me &quot;getting used to it&quot; So widening the cockpit does help a little so ppl with mild issues could try that.

I can play other games that have a clear &quot;glass&quot; ie falcon 4 a few racing games absolutely no problems, and i can handle FPS games no problems, however I cannot handle hawken with its glass, and now MWO, is it the scratches? is is the scratches combined with the motion I dunno.

Nausea aside, i think it is a ugly thing to do the game, but i really wouldn't care all that much..

Thanks for the info anyway, still a quite intriguing problem, all in all.

What I guess is: people get disoriented/nauseous because of asynchronous motion between cockpitglass ( which is strongly highlighted visually now and easily could go for a focal point) and outside world-motion ( practically overload their eyes real quick because of those 2 instead of 1 focal plane)?

This could be then further enhanced by FPS drops, tearing, the grain filter (way more stress on your eyes), bad eyesight, old/wrong glasses/contacts and even the slight rocking of JJ´ing ...

Does that more or less sum it ?

[Ashvins]

Rad Hanzo, on 27 January 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

Thanks for the info anyway, still a quite intriguing problem, all in all.

What I guess is: people get disoriented/nauseous because of asynchronous motion between cockpitglass ( which is strongly highlighted visually now and easily could go for a focal point) and outside world-motion ( practically overload their eyes real quick because of those 2 instead of 1 focal plane)?

This could be then further enhanced by FPS drops, tearing, the grain filter (way more stress on your eyes), bad eyesight, old/wrong glasses/contacts and even the slight rocking of JJ´ing ...

Does that more or less sum it ?

Yep, That is what i'm thinking is the cause of the headache problem for me at least.

Now on to other issues brought up here F4 is not an option in 12 man's so throw that one out.
Adapting , not going to happen unless PGI tone's it down a lot, I'm fine with the CP glass on the side windows but in the middle of my screen it has to go.

To the trolls (you know who you are) go troll somewhere else not a thread that want's or needs your input.

FPS drop for some, yep what do you expect with them adding yet another layer of {Scrap}, and one the setting at low does nothing to alleviate.

Realism/immersion, well lets look at this, So CP glass means we are looking out through effectively some form of glass as we know it. (I for one would have my mech repair guys fired or shot on sight for giving me a mech with visibility as poor as my Dragons have.) That being the case WHY DO WE HAVE FILM GRAIN?

I mean if we are looking through glass there should be no cameras involved, if were looking through a monitor projection on the inside of our cockpits there should be no flaws in the glass seen. maybe some dust and grime but hey NASCAR and all modern motorsports have tackled this issue years ago.
Basically CP Glass and Film grain contradict each other so make up your minds on HOW we are getting our visual input and stay with it.

Then work on giving us visual IMPROVEments to the game on that, not visual IMPAREments.

[Tarzilman]

LastPaladin, on 27 January 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

If the cockpit glass is fine and there is no problem with it, then why would you be at a disadvantage by keeping it on?

When you say that putting in a toggle gives you a disadvantage, you are admitting that something is very wrong with the cockpit glass, if it obscures your vision so badly.

Hi LastPaladin!
Obviously you got something wrong.
I'm not from the "you don't even see the cockpit glass"-front. Actually I think you see it pretty well, at least at some specific positions on a few maps. On these Spots it definitely is an disadvantage.
Allthough I don't think, the cockpit glass is the main factor, that makes some ppl feel sick. They should at least try out some other possibilities like lighten up the room they're playing in or turn motion blur off.
I'm pretty sure, PGI got and understood your problem here and they will try to improve the look of the cockpit glass.
To keep it fair, everyone have to play this game under the same conditions. No toggle!

[Captain Stern]

So let me see if I have this right.
Glass, pro's: Some people like the look, and believe it leads to better immersion

Glass, cons : Some people do not like the look, and find gameplay decreased
: Some people suffer headaches and nausea
: Some people find immersion ruined, blinding glare in a cave ? walk into a shadow and see LESS?
: Some people find there particular style of game play strongly affected, I find snipping to be tougher while LRM's remain largely unaffected
: Some people find ALL gameplay to be strongly affected, while the effect is not always overwhelming, no one can say they are going a full game with out it impeding vision at some point.
: frame rates and performance are slowed, more for some than others
: Everybody sees less of the game, all mechs are less visible
: While some people claim there gameplay is unaffected, no one claims there gameplay is improved

Possible solutions
1) remove new effect
Who in the game would find there gameplay negatively affected by doing this ? NO ONE, after all no one screamed they needed it before its use.
2) toggle on/off
People who claim to suffer no ill effect carry on unaffected, people with complaints, now happy
-Some people VERY unhappy, they understand glass is a major impact, and do not wish to play impeded unless everyone is impeded-yet for some reason feel we ALL need to suffer.
3) PGI invests more time and resources trying to improve the "effect" further delaying features like destroyable landscapes or new missions. Who would prefer a LONGER delay in any of the promised features VS trying to include this poorly implemented un asked for green smear, witch could be vastly improved, and still not work as intended.
- people who are unhappy with new effect might be less unhappy, people who like glass,maybe now more happy ?
- Some people still get headaches and nausea, lets assume those people have been successfully driven off. After all, who spends money to get a headache ? Nice reward for time and money invested. Assume ALL prices must now climb to cover lost income from " wimps who could not force there bodies to adapt to unrealistic movement and lighting flaws'
- Some people leave because visual impairment so high , it prevents game enjoyment, assume prices climb further to offset lower player population.

With out trolling or telling me to "put up with it" or "see a doctor" please tell me why I am unaffected in real life, but I MUST suffer this here in a game I play for fun ? Please do not suggest I should just leave, as that is not a very convincing argument.

ONLY one solution offer PGI with the same number of people it started with. removal. All other choices cause lots of upheaval.
While I cannot claim to know the future, who believes this "effect" would cause potential new players to say..."Oh lets invest in this new game"?

[Captain Stern]

Tarzilaman, thank you for admitting you find it a disadvantage. Would you please explain WHY more visual impairment will improve game play? More importantly, since glass is clearly not a critical feature for gameplay, unlike weapons toggle or minimaps...Why would you advocate keeping it ?

[1Sascha]

Having thought about this some more, here's a solution I came up with during last night's MWO-session:

Leave glass in if you must, but tone it down significantly. And by significantly I mean the effect should be as un-intrusive as it is on Alpine Peaks. On that map, it is what it should be - a cosmetic effect. You can make out some glass degradation around the outer edges of your cockpit (side windows/near struts and generally *not* on your main windscreen).

Also: Remove any of the scratches from advanced zoom mode. You want immersion? Well, this is an immersion-killer if I ever saw one, since adv. zoom is supposed to be an electronically enhanced picture-in-picture ... so why would I see the scratches on my badly maintained windscreen in it?

If you can't achieve these parameters, disable the effect altogether. Reason: It doesn't add anything positive to the game.

Or better still: Use the existing effect as a starting point for a better implementation of the whole idea. The current effect of a scratched up/badly maintained main window should be used as a first stage of visual damage representation (you'd see it after the first, non-critical, cockpit-hit). The next hit could make things worse by cracking your main window (more visible damage), and if your cockpit gets hit again (without killing you) you might get some further visual damage like really big cracks or even holes.



S.

Edited by 1Sascha, 28 January 2014 - 01:06 AM.

[badbreath]

KodiakGW, on 22 January 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

These are players that have stuck around and dealt with all the other issues that have made others leave (C-bill nerf, SRM hit detection, JJ shake, 3rd person, game stagnation, etc.). I would suggest the devs removing this, taking the names of those who said they had issues, and bring them into testing the "fixed" versions until they no longer become physically ill.

I think this is the money shot.
They still think that 3rd person view is a good thing and this is their way of forcing us to use it.
Soon the glass will crack on the cockpit making it totally impossible to see without using 3rd person view.

Love the updates...every week lets see how the game can get worse.